Twins General Manager Jeremy Zoll Explains Why Walker Jenkins Hasn’t Been Called Up

[Czelgert]

Honestly, Zoll’s explanation sounds like a litany of corporate speak to describe why they’re delaying Jenkins’s service time clock.  Is there any empirical evidence that Roden is more deserving of MLB playing time than Jenkins?

[MeleMouth]

22 minutes ago, MeleMouth said:

There may have been issues particular to Mientkiewicz, also. It sounded like he wasn't, shall we say, very "welcoming" to young Mourneau. To move him out of the locker room, the Twins accepted an OK A ball pitcher in return. 

To get back to the topic at hand, Dougie wasn't nearly as valuable as the players Jenkins would replace.

To exhaust the comparisons of Morneau's and Jenkins' situations, here are two final facts.

1. Dougie was traded on July 31, 2004, about 7-1/2 months BEFORE Jenkins was born.

2. That's more of an amusing fact, but it's relevant because a comparison between the situations should apply data that would have been applicable to the decision-makers of each era. We shouldn't compare OPS to OPS, because decision in 2004 usually didn't consider OPS. What they did consider was slugging. And in 2004, Morneau was slugging .615 in AAA, while Dougie was slugging .363 in Minnesota. It was quite hard for Twins management at the time to rationalize keeping Morneau and his extremely rare slugging on the farm while Dougie was producing like a 1970s bat control middle infielder.

Nuf said.

[chpettit19]

6 minutes ago, Czelgert said:

Honestly, Zoll’s explanation sounds like a litany of corporate speak to describe why they’re delaying Jenkins’s service time clock.  Is there any empirical evidence that Roden is more deserving of MLB playing time than Jenkins?

Well, Roden has better AAA numbers than Jenkins, if that matters. But it isn't even the point. The point is that Roden isn't worthy of real playing time. So, he doesn't get real playing time. Zoll's "corporate speak" was actually explaining why MLB team don't call guys up sometimes. Because you don't want Walker Jenkins getting 27 PAs in 16 games. Or, more recently since Buxton's been back, 6 PAs in 6 games. You want Jenkins getting 27 PAs in 9 games. In the last 6 games you want Walker getting 20+ PAs.

Walker Jenkins doesn't fill Roden's (or Martin's when he got hurt) role. He fits Larnach, Buxton, Keaschall, or Bell's.

[jimbo92107]

5 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Alan Roden is getting 10 plate appearances a week. He has already taken a seat. 

To which I reply, okay. Who else ya got that's a better outfielder than Walker Jenkins? They can take a seat, or play every day, somewhere else. That does include Keashall. If his weak arm is still suffering from his recent TJ surgery, then maybe he needs time off to rehab, and maybe retool his throwing mechanics, and learn how to play balls off the wall, in AAA. 

[Andy MacPhail]

Jenkins is  suffering from Twins' fetish of collecting & hoarding LH hitting cOfers. Outman was a lost cause but we still have Rodon & Emma ahead of him to find out what they have & what to do with them. I don't like this situation & I'd love to see Jenkins take that next step but until these two are given every opportunity to prove themselves, he'll have to wait.

[TheLeviathan]

I really don't understand why we kept Larnach.  He's a platoon player, who plays shoddy defense (in LF, where the Twins have openly stated the value of having a good LFer), has very little team control left, and was at peak value.

We kept him lodged in a spot that very clearly needs to have two of our top prospects playing there in the very, very near future.  

Our commitment, dedication, stubborn behavior about him (call it what you like) has been rewarded with a dreadful performance.  His OPS is under .600 in his last 90 at-bats.  At this point he's a significantly sub-replacement level player that we keep hitting at the top of our lineup and refused to trade to open a path for more talented player.

I just don't get it.  This is the guy that's the obstacle to seeing either of these young guys up.  It'd be hard for them to be worse than Larnach's been for about two months now.

[Vanimal46]

Seattle just called up Kade Anderson after 93 total innings in minor league ball. Teams are calling up their top prospects with no disregard about a lockout next season. I guess Zoll is smarter than every GM in baseball though. Let’s keep delaying prospects until they’re 25-28 years old 

[TheLeviathan]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

Seattle just called up Kade Anderson after 93 total innings in minor league ball. Teams are calling up their top prospects with no disregard about a lockout next season. I guess Zoll is smarter than every GM in baseball though. Let’s keep delaying prospects until they’re 25-28 years old 

I, for one, think it's very nice of the Twins to set our prospects up so that when their arbitration years are over they can transition smoothly to social security.

[HarmonK03]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

Seattle just called up Kade Anderson after 93 total innings in minor league ball. Teams are calling up their top prospects with no disregard about a lockout next season. I guess Zoll is smarter than every GM in baseball though. Let’s keep delaying prospects until they’re 25-28 years old 

And while I am not familiar with their situation, it doesn't appear they have a clear opening for another starter.  They traded Castillo at the trade deadline because of an excess of starting pitching and now they call up their top prospect and are finding room for him.

[GNess]

For whatever its worth the Twins promoted the following with stats for the season of promotion noted:

Buxton .272 .787 OPS

Larnach .271 .888 OPS

Roden .271 .909 OPS

Jenkins .292 .864 OPS

 

 

[Craig Arko]

They’re probably waiting to have the call up coincide with Alex Jackson bobblehead day.

[Coach]

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

We've been through this before, I'm not putting Keaschall at 2B for another game in his life. And I'm not benching Larnach twice a week for Jenkins. The guys in the clubhouse definitely know who's got them there and that absolutely has a very real chance of disrupting the team. Jenkins better perform or you're going to have some very cranky vets. 

But I ask again, can you name another team that has called up a Jenkins type prospect and moved a guy back to a position they already decided he couldn't field and benched one of their 4 or 5 best hitters multiple times a week to get that guy in? Your suggestion is not as mainstream as you seem to be suggesting it is.

I want to see Jenkins, too. I have no idea if he'll perform from the jump or not. I'm not forcing Keaschall back to the dirt and benching Larnach multiple times a week in the heat of a playoff chase to find out if he's going to be like most rookies (even the elite prospects) and struggle some out of the gate, or if he'll be an outlier and outperform nearly my entire roster.

Good points.

[Mike Sixel]

19 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Seattle just called up Kade Anderson after 93 total innings in minor league ball. Teams are calling up their top prospects with no disregard about a lockout next season. I guess Zoll is smarter than every GM in baseball though. Let’s keep delaying prospects until they’re 25-28 years old 

I mean, they don't have another SS on the roster, mostly......

[Hubie29]

Over thinking it. Who would you rather have playing? Roden, Larnach or Jenkins. I will take my chances with Jenkins.

[Hubie29]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I mean, they don't have another SS on the roster, mostly......

Anderson is a SP.

[chpettit19]

43 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Seattle just called up Kade Anderson after 93 total innings in minor league ball. Teams are calling up their top prospects with no disregard about a lockout next season. I guess Zoll is smarter than every GM in baseball though. Let’s keep delaying prospects until they’re 25-28 years old 

Didn't Zoll just add some Culpepper guy to the 40-man and call him up? Wasn't he a "top prospect?" Didn't the Twins call up Brooks Lee 2 years after drafting him while Zoll was the GM? Didn't they call up Luke Keaschall 2 years after drafting him while Zoll was GM? Didn't Connor Prielipp have barely more than 100 minor league innings before he debuted while Zoll was GM? Wasn't Walker Jenkins a slightly above average AAA hitter until about 2 weeks ago? Isn't Jenkins 21 and in AAA but has suffered serious injuries in every season of his career?

I get that people want to see him, and the Twins definitely hoard below average veterans far more than I'd like, but some of you guys are making it sound like the Twins are holding Jenkins back while he's 23, 24, and 25. I'd love to see him. They could force him into the lineup and it wouldn't be ridiculous. But he's also only been a clearly dominant AAA player for about 2 weeks. He's earned his way up at this point and I expect him, or Emma, to get a chance when an everyday role opens up. Making it sound like the Twins are refusing to call up top prospects is ignoring the reality of what they've actually done with their top prospects and what Jenkins has actually done at AAA. It's entirely reasonable to have the 21-year-old who's missed significant chunks of time in every one of his professional seasons still at AAA. It's still a very quick promotion schedule.

And it's only random TD posters claiming the lockout has any bearing on anything. Again, the Twins literally just called up a top prospect.

[Mike Sixel]

6 minutes ago, Hubie29 said:

Anderson is a SP.

hahaha. Ya, I realized that but didn't come back.....He's the top SP in the minors, and I was surprised he wasn't up sooner. 

[mluebker]

8 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

Blah, blah, blah - Zoll covering his ass.

Exactly. He made an unpopular decision for reasons we can surmise, and now he’s groping for an explanation he thinks he can sell.

Buxton in right where he’s got less territory to cover and is less likely to aggravate his hip, Jenkins in center, and whoever has the hot bat in left.

[arby58]

8 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

Blah, blah, blah - Zoll covering his ass.  Just the same old stuff - nothing new.  Larnach had a great first half, not so good second.  Martin is down.  Roden does not have the talent of Jenkins.  five of the six top players in the draft are up, but we are afraid to call up Jenkins?  Give me a break.  I would prefer if he just said - we don't want to call him up - he will get too expensive too quickly and not go through the other issues that are not worthy of reading. 

Fans fixate on recent events. 3 of the 4 drafted ahead of Jenkins were college players. Clark, the one HS player drafted ahead of him, has been up for 18 games. He had 418 plate appearances at AAA, more than Jenkins.

[Cris E]

2 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I really don't understand why we kept Larnach.  He's a platoon player, who plays shoddy defense (in LF, where the Twins have openly stated the value of having a good LFer), has very little team control left, and was at peak value.

We kept him lodged in a spot that very clearly needs to have two of our top prospects playing there in the very, very near future.  

Our commitment, dedication, stubborn behavior about him (call it what you like) has been rewarded with a dreadful performance.  His OPS is under .600 in his last 90 at-bats.  At this point he's a significantly sub-replacement level player that we keep hitting at the top of our lineup and refused to trade to open a path for more talented player.

I just don't get it.  This is the guy that's the obstacle to seeing either of these young guys up.  It'd be hard for them to be worse than Larnach's been for about two months now.

Well in July (three weeks ago) Larnach had a .837 OPS, so maybe he's only been slumping for a month. 

And maybe a platoon hitter on the big side (who even after a slump still has an .800+ OPS against righties) can be of value when he's sporting a 124 OPS+. That kind of guy on a roster like the Twins' should be hard to discard.

And then of course there is the small fact that they are not being belligerent or stubborn or even devoted to Trevor, because they had a deal all but done and the other team rug-pulled them at the last second. At the top of his value they actually did trade him. Not their fault they couldn't find another dance partner in the final hours. Call Jim Crane to register your complaint. 

But the final answer to all your questions more or less comes down to this: the kids you want to promote have only been playing well for as long as Larnach has been slumping.  Go back to late July and Erod and Jenkins were both extremely pedestrian. Jenkins had a terrible April (.620 OPS in 19 games) followed by 3 games in May and 9 in June. When he finally got back on his feet in AAA in July he played 21 games but only hit .263 with a .777 OPS, more K than BB.  His 13 August games have been much better, but it's not a long record of sustained excellence. After a hot April (13 games, 1.000 OPS) Emma missed a ton of time, 12 total games until August with bad numbers. He's been back in AAA for seven games, 4-21 plus 3 walks, 1 2B and I guess a big game today, but it's not online yet.  Those are not good numbers. They are significantly worse than the version of Larnach you want to bench, and amassed against inferior competition.  ERod is in this conversation because he's out of options, not because he's playing well. 

[chpettit19]

12 minutes ago, arby58 said:

Fans fixate on recent events. 3 of the 4 drafted ahead of Jenkins were college players. Clark, the one HS player drafted ahead of him, has been up for 18 games. He had 418 plate appearances at AAA, more than Jenkins.

And Clark was only called up because the Tigers have like 6 OFers on the IL.

[Road trip]

3 hours ago, MeleMouth said:

To exhaust the comparisons of Morneau's and Jenkins' situations, here are two final facts.

1. Dougie was traded on July 31, 2004, about 7-1/2 months BEFORE Jenkins was born.

2. That's more of an amusing fact, but it's relevant because a comparison between the situations should apply data that would have been applicable to the decision-makers of each era. We shouldn't compare OPS to OPS, because decision in 2004 usually didn't consider OPS. What they did consider was slugging. And in 2004, Morneau was slugging .615 in AAA, while Dougie was slugging .363 in Minnesota. It was quite hard for Twins management at the time to rationalize keeping Morneau and his extremely rare slugging on the farm while Dougie was producing like a 1970s bat control middle infielder.

Nuf said.

To be fair to Dougie, he had put up 4.3 WAR in 2003, the year before he was traded.  That's nearly the WAR that Larnach has put up in his entire career thus far.  There is very little chance that Larnach will match Dougie's career WAR.

Obviously WAR wasn't considered in 2004, but Dougie had been a very productive hitter and fielder the previous year at .300/.393/.450 .  It was however his last really good offensive season.  He was 30 and his best years were behind him.  The Twins correctly saw a need to make a change.

 

 

[Vanimal46]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Didn't Zoll just add some Culpepper guy to the 40-man and call him up? Wasn't he a "top prospect?" Didn't the Twins call up Brooks Lee 2 years after drafting him while Zoll was the GM? Didn't they call up Luke Keaschall 2 years after drafting him while Zoll was GM? Didn't Connor Prielipp have barely more than 100 minor league innings before he debuted while Zoll was GM? Wasn't Walker Jenkins a slightly above average AAA hitter until about 2 weeks ago? Isn't Jenkins 21 and in AAA but has suffered serious injuries in every season of his career?

I get that people want to see him, and the Twins definitely hoard below average veterans far more than I'd like, but some of you guys are making it sound like the Twins are holding Jenkins back while he's 23, 24, and 25. I'd love to see him. They could force him into the lineup and it wouldn't be ridiculous. But he's also only been a clearly dominant AAA player for about 2 weeks. He's earned his way up at this point and I expect him, or Emma, to get a chance when an everyday role opens up. Making it sound like the Twins are refusing to call up top prospects is ignoring the reality of what they've actually done with their top prospects and what Jenkins has actually done at AAA. It's entirely reasonable to have the 21-year-old who's missed significant chunks of time in every one of his professional seasons still at AAA. It's still a very quick promotion schedule.

And it's only random TD posters claiming the lockout has any bearing on anything. Again, the Twins literally just called up a top prospect.

He called up 1 prospect, and even that was delayed. Raise the banner. Jenkins is another level higher than Culpepper as a prospect 

[tony&rodney]

Rational has its place. If one accepts rational thought, Zoll's comments make perfect sense. It doesn't add anything to continually go Henny Penny (the sky is falling) on everything done by the Twins front office or owner. The Twins have been healthier than most other teams. Every club works out why and when to add players from AAA, especially prospects. Kade Anderson takes the place of the recently traded Luis Castillo in Seattle's 6 man rotation. George Lombard Jr. took shortstop from utility player Caballero who was subbing for the demoted Anthony Volpe. Kaelen Culpepper was called up to push Ryan Kreidler back to his utility position. Walker Jenkins is simply not being considered as a replacement for a healthy Buxton or Keaschall and he is not a DH (please don't write that he has been in the lineup as a DH) guy. That position is held by Josh Bell. Thus we only see Jenkins if Larnach and possibly Roden go down with injuries. Alex Jackson is not an outfielder so there is no use to invoke his name as Jenkins will not be called up to sit on the pine. Sometimes one should consider the rational thought as explained by Zoll and dismiss the know nothing talk show/podcast/radio voices seeking an audience/cash. I expected Jenkins to be in the lineup by now because I was rather certain that Trevor Larnach would have been traded and then it seemed like perhaps Buxton would be out for 6-8 weeks. Those things didn't happen and so rational thinking prevailed.

[chpettit19]

16 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

He called up 1 prospect, and even that was delayed. Raise the banner. Jenkins is another level higher than Culpepper as a prospect 

It was delayed because he was hurt.

If Emma was healthy, he'd have debuted this year for sure, if not last year, at the age of 22 or 23.

Marek Houston is on the Lee, Keaschall, Culpepper path of debuting roughly 2 years, or less, from the date he was drafted.

Gabby Gonzalez debuted at the age of 22.

Henry Mendez is going to debut at 22 or 23. 

As previously mentioned, Prielipp absolutely flew through the system in terms of innings pitched.

Walker Jenkins is going to debut at the age of 21 or 22.

And, again, Walker Jenkins has been hurt every year and was barely above average at AAA until a light went on about 2 weeks ago. Calling him up just because fans know his name is an awful decision making process. He's just now earning his call by sustaining true, above average production. 

Its pretty wild to suggest the Twins have been delaying top prospects from debuting the last few years or that they've done anything crazy conservative with Jenkins. As pointed out above, he's going to debut with roughly 400 fewer minor league PAs than Clark had. And Clark got promoted as an injury replacement. Not because the Tigers cleared some path for him.

[twinstalker]

This is a lie.

If they think Jenkins is good enough, then they will (or they better) treat him at the #1 or #2 position player on the team.  Where and when do you play Jenkins?  Every day, and you fit everyone around him except perhaps for Buxton.

And if they find he's not ready, send his ass back down.

Nope, this is a service time issue.  Or it had better be.

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Cris E said:

 

And then of course there is the small fact that they are not being belligerent or stubborn or even devoted to Trevor, because they had a deal all but done and the other team rug-pulled them at the last second. At the top of his value they actually did trade him. Not their fault they couldn't find another dance partner in the final hours. Call Jim Crane to register your complaint. 

But the final answer to all your questions more or less comes down to this: the kids you want to promote have only been playing well for as long as Larnach has been slumping.  Go back to late July and Erod and Jenkins were both extremely pedestrian. Jenkins had a terrible April (.620 OPS in 19 games) followed by 3 games in May and 9 in June. When he finally got back on his feet in AAA in July he played 21 games but only hit .263 with a .777 OPS, more K than BB.  His 13 August games have been much better, but it's not a long record of sustained excellence. After a hot April (13 games, 1.000 OPS) Emma missed a ton of time, 12 total games until August with bad numbers. He's been back in AAA for seven games, 4-21 plus 3 walks, 1 2B and I guess a big game today, but it's not online yet.  Those are not good numbers. They are significantly worse than the version of Larnach you want to bench, and amassed against inferior competition.  ERod is in this conversation because he's out of options, not because he's playing well. 

I do like that there was buzz they tried to move him, fair point.  

I don't know how well the kids will play but I know Larnach has been a 65 OPS+ player for over a month now to say nothing of his terrible defense.  I don't think he's helping now or in the future.  At least those other two have a potential future and offer a certain defensive upgrade.

[David HK]

Yeh, OK, Mr. Company Line. 

The fact we we really need a competent CF, and have scored runs at a Football World Cup pace since the Break don't factor, I guess. 

He and Culpepper should have been a promotion package. 

[JADBP]

14 hours ago, PuckettPond said:

"In Zoll We Trust"

This article makes it sound like the roster is big, beautiful and perfect.  That adding in another talented youngster couldn't possibly improve the roster....as F'ed up as it is!  Geezz....Zoll...call a friend!

[mrmpls]

15 hours ago, bean5302 said:

apparently you and I learned different ways of counting as toddlers LOL

Entering action on Friday, the Twins are tied with the Rangers for the third and final Wild Card spot in the American League. A spark to the club’s outfield group couldn’t hurt as Twins outfielders are 17th in OPS and second to last in homers (2) and RBIs (9) over the past two weeks. Jenkins could certainly provide that boost.