Ryan Kreidler's Arrival Should Lead to James Outman's Exit

[DJL44]

27 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

What stats are we talking about that would be meaningful in the sample of MLB time he's played. Do you have defensive stats from the minors? 

Kreidler made several outstanding plays in center in spring training. People throughout the org have remarked about his defensive ability. I don't think they're infallible but I also trust my eyes and ears. And yeah, the ability to roster him as versatile defense-first depth with options is what makes him preferable to someone like Outman. No one's making him out to be a viable MLB starter.

Should we trust defensive evaluations from the organization that thinks Brooks Lee is an everyday SS and Josh Bell is a first baseman?

[rv78]

4 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Are you referring to the ball in the dirt that almost every first baseman in the league except Bell could scoop?

So Bell should have gotten the error then? An errant throw is an error, regardless of who is trying to catch it. What you are implying would be the same as giving every hitter a hit even if the fielder can't scoop up the ball. 

[DJL44]

5 minutes ago, rv78 said:

So Bell should have gotten the error then? An errant throw is an error, regardless of who is trying to catch it. What you are implying would be the same as giving every hitter a hit even if the fielder can't scoop up the ball. 

I don’t care about the accounting tally. Bell should have caught that ball. Fielders are taught to throw low. A ball that bounces once is easier to field than one that goes over the first baseman’s head.

[USAFChief]

4 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Are you referring to the ball in the dirt that almost every first baseman in the league except Bell could scoop?

Blaming Bell for the poor throw is...something. 

 

[rv78]

3 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I don’t care about the accounting tally. Bell should have caught that ball. Fielders are taught to throw low. A ball that bounces once is easier to field than one that goes over the first baseman’s head.

You are backing up your story by saying fielders are taught to throw low? Where I come from they are taught to throw at the chest. Anything above, below or off to either side of that, is off target. Balls in the dirt are just as much off target as throws over the head. (Unless the throw was intentionally throw off the turf for a 1 hop bounce to 1B.)

[USAFChief]

That we're debating Outman vs Kreidler, even for the 13th spot, says quite a bit about the roster. 

[DJL44]

22 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Blaming Bell for the poor throw is...something. 

The ball hit him in the glove. I am blaming him for booting a ball that hit his glove.

[GopherMike]

5 hours ago, Fatbat said:

Redundancy in AAAA players is frustrating for fans when the next young superstar is close to arriving. Absolutely nothing is gained by keeping outman on the 40 man. The “lets find the next Willy Castro”  experiment didn’t work in the Outman trade. It might work with Kreidler but its a super small sample size. It’s hard to put much stock in it yet.

I think we believe "the next young superster is close to arriving"

I'm not sure that's actually true.

[DJL44]

If Kreidler can hit well enough to be a backup outfielder then why isn’t he playing SS? Use him at the position where his defense will help the team the most.

[PatPfund]

Every team needs a good utility player, but do we really need three (Kreidler, Gray, Clemens)? Is Outman OK, because he hardly plays, or does he hardly play because he's (not really) OK? If you are just playing game-to-game I guess keeping Kreidler around for a bit is fine, but...

Emmanuel Rodriguez is on his final option year, and would immediately be the best defensive OF on the Twins not named Buxton along with an offensive upside better than any OF but Buxton. If not now, when? After he is out of options? If you need to play him everyday, bench/send down Wallner and his MLB leading 33 Ks (in 80 PAs) for a badly needed reset. But, yeah, cut Outman; he never should have gone north with the team.

[rv78]

29 minutes ago, PatPfund said:

Every team needs a good utility player, but do we really need three (Kreidler, Gray, Clemens)? Is Outman OK, because he hardly plays, or does he hardly play because he's (not really) OK? If you are just playing game-to-game I guess keeping Kreidler around for a bit is fine, but...

Emmanuel Rodriguez is on his final option year, and would immediately be the best defensive OF on the Twins not named Buxton along with an offensive upside better than any OF but Buxton. If not now, when? After he is out of options? If you need to play him everyday, bench/send down Wallner and his MLB leading 33 Ks (in 80 PAs) for a badly needed reset. But, yeah, cut Outman; he never should have gone north with the team.

It is completely ironic or, maybe Moronic would be the better term, that the Twins have young players in AAA that they are sure of their glove and unsure of their bat and instead of taking a chance on them to see if their bat will play at the major league level, they use a veteran that has proven his bat DOESN'T play, just for his glove. 

It seems to me that they are treading the same water now without Falvey as they did when Falvey was here. Play the veterans no matter how bad they are, hoping the fans buy into the moves they made, showing that they KNOW what they are doing. In all reality, they are only proving to the fans otherwise by running the same type of worthless veterans out onto the field over and over. Kreidler, Outman, Bell, Clemens and a handful of others brought in by Falvey aren't worth a roster spot if they are really serious about contending.

[Rosterman]

Time to cut. You traded Brock Stewart, who besides being injured will probably be a non-roster tender himself at some point. If he even makes it back in mid-May to a crowded Dodger pitching staff.

[LewFordLives]

This has to be one of the saddest headlines in the history of Twins Daily.

[Bangkok Twins Fan]

22 hours ago, Bodie said:

Where have you gone Bush and Lombardozi (sp?)?  Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you!

Best line of the week! Eat your heart out, Paul Simon!

[nclahammer]

I look at this situation two possible ways after Royce Lewis returns to the Twins next week.  If Outman stays and someone else gets DFAed or sent down, then it's pretty much business as usual for the Minnesota Twins.   If Outman is indeed "out man" and released with Tom Pohlad in charge, then I see this as a refreshing change of pace in using their roster.

[karcherd]

22 minutes ago, nclahammer said:

 If Outman is indeed "out man" and released with Tom Pohlad in charge, then I see this as a refreshing change of pace in using their roster.

I don't want Tom Pholad making roster decisions unless he is being asked to add payroll.  I want him to hire someone competent to run the baseball operations and knows how to construct a roster.  We didn't have this with Falvey and I have my doubts about Zoll but am willing to give him some time to see if he will operate better.

[Major League Ready]

On 4/18/2026 at 3:43 PM, rv78 said:

It is completely ironic or, maybe Moronic would be the better term, that the Twins have young players in AAA that they are sure of their glove and unsure of their bat and instead of taking a chance on them to see if their bat will play at the major league level, they use a veteran that has proven his bat DOESN'T play, just for his glove. 

It seems to me that they are treading the same water now without Falvey as they did when Falvey was here. Play the veterans no matter how bad they are, hoping the fans buy into the moves they made, showing that they KNOW what they are doing. In all reality, they are only proving to the fans otherwise by running the same type of worthless veterans out onto the field over and over. Kreidler, Outman, Bell, Clemens and a handful of others brought in by Falvey aren't worth a roster spot if they are really serious about contending.

What about their off-season would have you believe they are serious about winning?  Dropping the payroll again does not signify a serious attempt to win.  Even one legit high-leverage RP would have made a significant difference.  The personnel decisions were pretty good given the restrictions resulting from their decision to decrease payroll.  RPs are always an iffy investment but had they could have $13.6M on legit late inning guys instead of $3.6M on Rogers and Banda and still ben $15M under last year.   

Why would you lump a guy with an wRC+ of 135 (Bell) in with Outman and Clemens.  The consensus around here seemed to be for Lowe (91 wRC+) Bell is outperforming him significantly so why is Bell still getting flack other than we knew he is not a good defender.

Hind sight be 20/20, they should have trade Lopez and spent the $20M in the BP.  If the team failed, those guys probably would have had value at the trade deadline. 

[Bodie]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Twins Fan said:

Best line of the week! Eat your heart out, Paul Simon!

Just melodicaly rolls off the tongue...

[bean5302]

21 hours ago, Nick Nelson said:

What stats are we talking about that would be meaningful in the sample of MLB time he's played. Do you have defensive stats from the minors? 

Kreidler made several outstanding plays in center in spring training. People throughout the org have remarked about his defensive ability. I don't think they're infallible but I also trust my eyes and ears. And yeah, the ability to roster him as versatile defense-first depth with options is what makes him preferable to someone like Outman. No one's making him out to be a viable MLB starter.

Yes, I reviewed defensive stats from the minors at SS over the past 3 years in the International league. The stats available aren't comprehensive. They're pretty rudimentary. Fielding percentage and RF/9. Kreidler graded out as good. Not exceptional. In 875 innings or so as a SS with Detroit AAA over the past 3 years, Kreidler manages about a .965 fielding percentage and 4.25 RF/9. The fielding percentage is not good, the RF/9 is good, but not great.  

Even professional scouts are terrible when it comes to the eye test when it comes to outfielder speed. Reviewing Kreidler's Baseball Savant page, it shows his sprint speed has dropped from barely 60 grade (28.2 ft/sec) in 2023 which is about the bare minimum for acceptable CF coverage down to 27.4 ft/sec last year. Continuing the trend suggests Kreidler is about league average when it comes to speed. He's not going to be a good CF.

Outman can cover CF. Kreidler cannot. Neither should be on the roster.

[Fatbat]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

Yes, I reviewed defensive stats from the minors at SS over the past 3 years in the International league. The stats available aren't comprehensive. They're pretty rudimentary. Fielding percentage and RF/9. Kreidler graded out as good. Not exceptional. In 875 innings or so as a SS with Detroit AAA over the past 3 years, Kreidler manages about a .965 fielding percentage and 4.25 RF/9. The fielding percentage is not good, the RF/9 is good, but not great.  

Even professional scouts are terrible when it comes to the eye test when it comes to outfielder speed. Reviewing Kreidler's Baseball Savant page, it shows his sprint speed has dropped from barely 60 grade (28.2 ft/sec) in 2023 which is about the bare minimum for acceptable CF coverage down to 27.4 ft/sec last year. Continuing the trend suggests Kreidler is about league average when it comes to speed. He's not going to be a good CF.

Outman can cover CF. Kreidler cannot. Neither should be on the roster.

Its just time to bring up some young bloods. Erod is healthy and raking across the river. Why waste him there? Rotate 5 quality OF’s based on matchups, not rostering a guy cause he has 1 tool in his toolbox. Thats just dumb. Just as dumb as not getting Wallner or Larnach a 1B’s glove. 

[JADBP]

Arguing over Outman vs Kreidler vs. Lee vs. Larnach/Wallner/whoever is just a waste of energy.  The argument is when do you bring up the next outfield in AAA?

We all know it is enormously challenging to jump from AAA to MLB and we expect Emma/Jenkins/Gonzo/C-pepper to stumble when they show up.  But I would MUCH RATHER pay to watch our them than watch any of Outman/Kreidler/Lee and most especially Wallner.  

At some point Zoll has to grow up and know that he is now running the show, not Falvey.  He needs to put his big boy pants on and make his own decisions, not repeat the same crap that Falvey did.  He needs to learn that some players just are not gonna succeed in MLB, no matter where they were drafted.  He has to let them go (Outman, Wallner, etc) or send them down for retraining (Lee, maybe Lewis?).  He has to be able to let go.  Every once in a while he will lose a Brent Rooker or Spencer Steer, but that should not stop him from moving on from some players.  If Rooker has a good career elsewhere, so be it.  You tried.  I'm OK giving Lewis and Lee types more time (and maybe some specialized AAA time), but it the Wallner, Outman, Kreidler, group needs to be gone.  They are doing more harm than good to the current and the future team.