Guardians 5, Twins 4: New Look, Same Struggles as the Twins Lose Again in Cleveland

[chpettit19]

27 minutes ago, mrtwinsfan said:

so luke get up here -!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm guessing you'll see him in 6 days. He has 5 days left on his rehab time and I'm guessing they're going to give him the entire 20 day run. He played 2nd today. Guessing he'll play 2nd tomorrow. Have Monday off. Then play 2nd Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and join the Twins in Minneapolis for the Royals series starting next Friday.

[DJL44]

3 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

But yeah they could still tank by having Eeles up and playing. At least we'd see what we have if they did. That would be my choice. But they have their own ideas.

2 hours ago, mrtwinsfan said:

How about Sabato at 1b

If you look at the Saints stats, the top hitters by OPS were:

Mickey Gasper .915

Ed Julien .879

Noah Cardenas .877

Ryan Fitzgerald .837

Austin Martin .829

They're all up except Cardenas (because nobody in MLB wanted Christian Vazquez).

Then there's Alan Roden with his .918 OPS in Buffalo.

They didn't call up McCusker (.821), Sabato (.770) or Eeles (.717) because they didn't hit as well as Ryan Fitzgerald.

[DJL44]

22 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm guessing you'll see him in 6 days. He has 5 days left on his rehab time and I'm guessing they're going to give him the entire 20 day run. He played 2nd today. Guessing he'll play 2nd tomorrow. Have Monday off. Then play 2nd Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and join the Twins in Minneapolis for the Royals series starting next Friday.

I'm guessing you won't. Keaschall has a .238/.353/.238 line during his rehab. I think they'll option him, unless they want to preserve all of his options for 2026-2029.

[knothole61]

Just my two-cents on the question of tanking: it makes no sense in MLB and it is abhorrent in any case!

I mean, it's one thing if "achieving" the worst record in the NBA in 1968 nets you Lew Alcindor (and still a cowardly and disreputable thing to do), but another thing altogether if in MLB in 2025 the worst record gives you a slightly better chance of drafting a potential star who may make it to the major leagues in 3 or 4 years!  Come on...paraphrasing the Jimmy Dugan line: "There's no tanking in baseball."

[Greglw3]

5 hours ago, USAFChief said:

So...we make all these trades. I don't like it but I'm scolded i should LOVE these MLB ready pitchers we brought in--starters no less! Huge upside! One guy has 67 MLB starts! Another was in Philly's rotation! As good as Painter!!! The guy from Toronto is Francisco Liriano before the TJS.

And tomorrow is another bullpen game, kicked off by a 33 year old who's on his 10th team. 

While none of those guys are on the 26 man.

 

 

They need to finish the job. Still way too many .190, .215 hitters in the Twins lineup.

I don’t think Larnach is part of the solution nor certainly are Clemens, Gasper, and pains me to say Keirsey, touch and go on Julien. Martin is a keeper but why did Rocco bench him after he went 3 for 5 in his 1st game? Consistently terrible managing for years.

Players I would like to see on the 26 man and/or back in the lineup ASAP are Buxton and Keaschall.

Then, Gabriel Gonzalez may well be ready to hit more than some of the dead weight offense still left over.

And possibly, give Sabato a shot at 1B.

Kyler Fedko may well be worth a look.

And I would not rule out Culpepper and Jenkins as they are part of the future and are tearing up AA. Rodriguez is anybody’s guess due to chronic injury.

 

[Western SD Fan]

This loss should be directly laid on Rocco and the coaching staff as well as the FO.  Definitely an execution problem early when they couldn't get Clemens in from 3rd with nobody out.  Even that I put on the fault of Baldelli and the coaches for not having the players prepared to actually execute a small-ball strategy.  We all noted how well Cleveland executed their opportunity in the latter half of the inning.

I kept watching Ohl and it appeared he stayed in one inning too long.  I was hoping he would complete his duty, which was one trip through the order, which he did.  Just two outs short of finishing the 8th inning.  Ohl did his job.  This is one of the few cases where Rocco needed a quicker hook to prevent damage.

I would have liked to see Austin Martin actually PH in the top of the 9th instead of being the PR.  Rocco suddenly goes off-script again and attempts to make Keirsey Jr bunt the runner over.  After the entire season of not prioritizing or using the bunt, you decide to use it here!?!?  Yes, it made sense, but, no, you failed your players in preparing them for the situation.  As other commenters have suggested, this is a failure all the way up the developmental process where they focus on hitting with spreadsheets in their eyes rather than watch the game situations.  Speaking of spreadsheets, maybe in all of the fire sale chaos, the Pohlads didn't renew Rocco's Microsoft 360 (and Excel spreadsheet) subscription and didn't have everything moved over to a lower form of Google Docs at the time of this game.  

I'm sure that Julien will get some sort of extended run, but I think I've seen enough of him.  His poor defense and even worse offense are just becoming a dark hole in the lineup.  His 9th inning hit that he barely ran out of the box for kept him from reaching 3rd and forced another bad move in having Martin pinch-run vs pinch hit and may have given us a better chance to at least tie the game.  

Rocco & Co will need to take a more hands-on approach as there's hardly anybody left among the players to help guide the younger players like he has been depending on ever since he was hired in 2019.  I don't see him up to the task and it doesn't seem that he reprimands players at all, doesn't force them to have fundamental drills like bunting, PFP, base running, etc.

[chpettit19]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

I'm guessing you won't. Keaschall has a .238/.353/.238 line during his rehab. I think they'll option him, unless they want to preserve all of his options for 2026-2029.

I don't think his stats during his rehab will be the deciding factor. It'll be about who they want playing at the major league level. The reason they wouldn't call him up would be if they want to get a longer look at Julien at 2B, for example. Rehabs are way too small of a sample size to have stats matter. 

[Chad Freyer]

7 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

How is Kiersey even on this roster? Or Gasper?

Sadly, that's the best they got. 

[Bodie]

10 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Both of these players were on the opening day roster. That's why no one should be surprised how this season went. 

Still got time for Dr. (anyone injured grocery shopping must have a spare doctorate lying around) Miranda to make his return...

[Bodie]

3 hours ago, Western SD Fan said:

This loss should be directly laid on Rocco and the coaching staff as well as the FO.  Definitely an execution problem early when they couldn't get Clemens in from 3rd with nobody out.  Even that I put on the fault of Baldelli and the coaches for not having the players prepared to actually execute a small-ball strategy.  We all noted how well Cleveland executed their opportunity in the latter half of the inning.

I kept watching Ohl and it appeared he stayed in one inning too long.  I was hoping he would complete his duty, which was one trip through the order, which he did.  Just two outs short of finishing the 8th inning.  Ohl did his job.  This is one of the few cases where Rocco needed a quicker hook to prevent damage.

I would have liked to see Austin Martin actually PH in the top of the 9th instead of being the PR.  Rocco suddenly goes off-script again and attempts to make Keirsey Jr bunt the runner over.  After the entire season of not prioritizing or using the bunt, you decide to use it here!?!?  Yes, it made sense, but, no, you failed your players in preparing them for the situation.  As other commenters have suggested, this is a failure all the way up the developmental process where they focus on hitting with spreadsheets in their eyes rather than watch the game situations.  Speaking of spreadsheets, maybe in all of the fire sale chaos, the Pohlads didn't renew Rocco's Microsoft 360 (and Excel spreadsheet) subscription and didn't have everything moved over to a lower form of Google Docs at the time of this game.  

I'm sure that Julien will get some sort of extended run, but I think I've seen enough of him.  His poor defense and even worse offense are just becoming a dark hole in the lineup.  His 9th inning hit that he barely ran out of the box for kept him from reaching 3rd and forced another bad move in having Martin pinch-run vs pinch hit and may have given us a better chance to at least tie the game.  

Rocco & Co will need to take a more hands-on approach as there's hardly anybody left among the players to help guide the younger players like he has been depending on ever since he was hired in 2019.  I don't see him up to the task and it doesn't seem that he reprimands players at all, doesn't force them to have fundamental drills like bunting, PFP, base running, etc.

Julien hasn't figured out how to achieve (?) an actual negative batting average. 

Until that happens, his offensive "skills" and "production" are kilometers ahead of his glove work (whatever you call it, it ain't defense!).

[CRF]

Get used to it, because it's not gonna get better anytime soon. 

[karcherd]

8 hours ago, DJL44 said:

If you look at the Saints stats, the top hitters by OPS were:

Mickey Gasper .915

Ed Julien .879

Noah Cardenas .877

Ryan Fitzgerald .837

Austin Martin .829

They're all up except Cardenas (because nobody in MLB wanted Christian Vazquez).

Then there's Alan Roden with his .918 OPS in Buffalo.

They didn't call up McCusker (.821), Sabato (.770) or Eeles (.717) because they didn't hit as well as Ryan Fitzgerald.

Fitzgerald is only up here to be the backup SS, there are no other options.  They don't trust Martin or Lewis to play there and need someone to play there when Lee needs a day off.

[hitterscount]

10 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

Keeping Keaschell and Rodriguez down now is just how you have to play the game and it's the smart thing to do. Next opening day is a different story. If nothing changes between now and then both will be up. I'd like Jenkins then too personally, though he might more be the next season. Larnach's time is ending here and maybe Wallner too. This is a key two months for them as far as their MN futures go.

If Wallner and Larnach are on the team next year than it's just the same crap outfield. They both were handed the keys, and both crashed... miserably. From poor plate approaches, low contact, can't hit with RISP and worse defense, Both are liabilities in the field. They were significant contribuers to this miserable season.

I don't care what they do the rest of the season, it's over... the pressure is off. They have had enough time to show what they could do. Hitting HR's down 10 or up 8 doesn't cut it, pads stats but that's it. I watched way to many important pressure AB's this year from to see they are not part of the future/solution.

If you want to try and resurrect Wallner's career, put him at 1st and see if he can field there. If he looks alright he can earn a spot next spring.

 

[Patzky]

12 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Tell me how the post Trade Deadline is going without telling me how the post Trade Deadline is going ... 

I wonder if he even knew a foul bunt with two strikes is an out .. not a rip on him so much as the coaching staff.. are now strategies related to the batters? Rocco seems irritated he considering bunting the first place 

[Patzky]

6 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

They need to finish the job. Still way too many .190, .215 hitters in the Twins lineup.

I don’t think Larnach is part of the solution nor certainly are Clemens, Gasper, and pains me to say Keirsey, touch and go on Julien. Martin is a keeper but why did Rocco bench him after he went 3 for 5 in his 1st game? Consistently terrible managing for years.

Players I would like to see on the 26 man and/or back in the lineup ASAP are Buxton and Keaschall.

Then, Gabriel Gonzalez may well be ready to hit more than some of the dead weight offense still left over.

And possibly, give Sabato a shot at 1B.

Kyler Fedko may well be worth a look.

And I would not rule out Culpepper and Jenkins as they are part of the future and are tearing up AA. Rodriguez is anybody’s guess due to chronic injury.

 

I'm mixed on Clemens.. he's not young but he possesses fire and plays decent defense which is at a premium. And he rises to the moment occasionally too. Daddy didn't raise no baseball idiots.

[Patzky]

8 hours ago, DJL44 said:

If you look at the Saints stats, the top hitters by OPS were:

Mickey Gasper .915

Ed Julien .879

Noah Cardenas .877

Ryan Fitzgerald .837

Austin Martin .829

They're all up except Cardenas (because nobody in MLB wanted Christian Vazquez).

Then there's Alan Roden with his .918 OPS in Buffalo.

They didn't call up McCusker (.821), Sabato (.770) or Eeles (.717) because they didn't hit as well as Ryan Fitzgerald.

Let's not ignore that Outman went 0/5 batting second on a night when the Saints put up double digit runs. Keirsey East?

[Doctor Wu]

11 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

Martin should be playing the next 50 games. Find out what you have for crying out loud.

Exactly, Let him play. Sink or swim. Of course there the remains the dilemma, of where to play him? Or does he become the new versatile version of Castro?

[Doctor Wu]

41 minutes ago, karcherd said:

Fitzgerald is only up here to be the backup SS, there are no other options.  They don't trust Martin or Lewis to play there and need someone to play there when Lee needs a day off.

Can we still bring back Punto?

[Peter]

We can’t beat Cleveland no matter what!!! 14 straight one run wins. There plenty of wins remaining with A’s white Sox royals angels and Arizona. Rest of games matter!!! No tanking no quitting or giving up!!! Just got to trust to process!!! Better days ahead for twins!!! 

[Greglw3]

25 minutes ago, Patzky said:

I'm mixed on Clemens.. he's not young but he possesses fire and plays decent defense which is at a premium. And he rises to the moment occasionally too. Daddy didn't raise no baseball idiots.

I do like Clemens and his clutch propensity and I root hard for him, but I have a deep aversion to .218ish batting averages. I don’t think you can win that way.

[NYCTK]

5 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't think his stats during his rehab will be the deciding factor.

It should. This isn't a veteran of the game that spent a season in AA and AAA and really proved himself worthy of the big leagues. This is a lie that we all like, with talent, that was scorching hot and forced his way onto the big league roster. 

He's only had a half season at AA and now 100 PAs at AAA. They really should let him prove himself again fully since there's no rush the rest of the season. He's 22 and there is the psychological risk of letting him flail on a noncompetetive team. 

 

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, karcherd said:

Fitzgerald is only up here to be the backup SS, there are no other options.  They don't trust Martin or Lewis to play there and need someone to play there when Lee needs a day off.

As ****** the reason, I love stories like Ryan Fitzgerald. Nearly 3000 plate appearances in the minors chasing this dream and it's finally come true. 

[saviking]

Can someone explain to me why Keirsey is still up considering he's batting a buck ten after 82 atbats.

[AceBee]

I found my old blog post from 2012 about Twins ineptitude in general - and it still works in 2025

The Twins school of baseball

Aug19

1. How to score minimum number of runs in an inning with runner(s) in scoring position.

• Ground out into double plays
• Fail to advance the batters when nobody out either through infield groundouts or meek popup
• Getting struck out
• Never hit a sacrifice fly

2. How to give at least the minimum possible runs in an innings

• Exactly the opposite of all bullet points mentioned above

3. 2 strike fouls always should lead to extra base hits to the opposite batters (and K’s to Twins batters)

4. Commit more errors (more often than not in key spots)

5. Hits are more often singles which couple along with Double Plays mean that even 3 hits in an inning will produce no runs on the board

6. Keep too much for the end. So you feel like you have put up an fight and lost a close ballgame but in reality that never going to be a W ! Keep all the big hits for 8th and 9th innings when team is already down by more than 4 runs

This has been a story for last 2 years after earning a reputation of a team who knows the basics in the earlier decade. Can you point out the exact reasons for such a binary turnaround?

[Whitey333]

I've been watching Twins since the 60s and this is hard to take.  Dumping team controlled players that are good is excessive.  Leaving Baldelli and Falvey in charge of the team is criminal.  

[David Maro]

The game is called baseball,this team doesn't play it. The manager is clueless and its unwatchable.

[Jeff K]

15 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

How is Kiersey even on this roster? Or Gasper?

It's just plain enfuriating that the Twins are carrying those guys on the ML roster when they are not players to either audition or build around.  I throw Julien into the same "why" mix.

[Jeff K]

14 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Games are won & lost in the margins. You might have OK pitching, even OK offense, but have poor defense & poor fundamentals, forget it. If you don't develop bunting, don't expect your players to bunt. Keirsey should have been sent down to AAA a long time ago so he could have been called up at this time. After sitting for an awful long time & when he finally played, he miraculously had a good game & then he was benched. Why not let him ride his good fortune? Martin had a good game & he sits. Julien isn't a 2Bman & he's not hitting, why is he playing every day?

Why is Julien on the flipping 40 man roster?  And Keirsey?

[LastOnePicked]

14 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I hope to hell they aren't actually tanking. The thought of actively trying to lose is loathsome in the Nth degree. Its literally cheating. Cheating of the WORST kind...actively trying to influence outcomes with other than honest attempts to win.

This.

I want a rebuild, but part of a rebuild means putting these younger players into a position to be future contributors. I would love to see the Twins play .500 ball the rest of the way. And I think they need a new manager to instill some better habits.

I'd also be pretty furious if I were a team that played my games against the pre-deadline Twins, where my chances of winning were about 50% - then to watch my competition get to play their games against the post-deadline Twins, where their chances of winning may be as high as 70%. It damages the integrity of a more balanced MLB schedule.

[miller761]

Did Rocco explain why Austin Martin (3 hits Friday night) is not in the lineup on Saturday? Aside from injury or illness that is inexcusable unless you do not want to give your team a chance to win