Marlins 2, Twins 0: Twins Bats Have No Answers for Marlins’ Edward Cabrera

[Patzky]

5 hours ago, knothole61 said:

*Comment: I love Ryan, sign him to a big contract as soon as possible, if possible. And...how can an offense staffed by highly-paid professionals be so bad?

Four other teams were rendered inert last night too. Sometimes you just have to tip your cap tip your cap tip your cap.

[Patzky]

9 hours ago, Western SD Fan said:

Adams start alert for St. Paul:  2 2/3 IP, 3H, 2ER, 1BB, 2K in 49 pitches.  He's already out so that doesn't bode well for a future Adams appearance.

Can he hit? You can stand half the Ober meltdowns if you can consistently put up five or six runs.

[Bodie]

9 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

Stats don’t lie

"Trust the process..."

 

Going to go puke now.

[Bodie]

7 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

They've won more than fifty percent of the games he's managed. It's the players. Now we're complaining about a guy going seven innings?

Yes.

[Bodie]

17 minutes ago, Patzky said:

Four other teams were rendered inert last night too. Sometimes you just have to tip your cap tip your cap tip your cap.

When you are "tipping your cap" ( for their "stellar" pitching) to the oppo once a week, it's time to look in the mirror...

[Patzky]

7 minutes ago, Bodie said:

When you are "tipping your cap" ( for their "stellar" pitching) to the oppo once a week, it's time to look in the mirror...

It's a well-worn cap. Not a well-loved one.

[Doctor Wu]

10 hours ago, Western SD Fan said:

Good news for us.  The Red Sox come calling to Minnesota at the end of the month.  We will have an opportunity for Alcala to close us out as well.

Come on, we have to wait for the return of the Reds and Emilio Pagan!

[Doctor Gast]

Twins picked the wrong time to play the hot young MIA team. Not long ago MIA was willing to almost give away E Cabrera. Cabrera has always had great stuff, but had command problems. He finally got his act together. Alcantra is starting to come around, too. Ryan had his usual top stuff also but again MN offense was flat. With recently unpopular Lewis having the only hit for most of the game.

Interesting that Ronny Henriquez has pitched well for MIA with 5 saves in high leverage. While in BOS, Alcala that has pitched 4 innings in 5 games (not pitching multiple innings or on consecutive days) has yet to give up a run. & BOS is very high on Jovani Moran, doing very well in AAA. All Twins have given up on with nobody really in return.

[David Maro]

What hitters totally unwatchable!!

[Whitey333]

Twins look awful again.  The Twins have missed the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years.  Likely to be 4 of 5 yet Falvey and Baldelli take no accountability or responsibility.  I'm not surprised.  It's the Twins way.

[TwinsDr2021]

9 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

They've won more than fifty percent of the games he's managed. It's the players. Now we're complaining about a guy going seven innings?

I am pretty sure the original post wasn't complaining just asking ("Were there any questions or answers of why Joe Ryan was lifted after the 7th inning. I really like Varland and don't have an issue with it really")

I don't think the response was a complaint solely based on last night, IMO is a overall complaint on the managers ability. Which IMO isn't up to the standards of a MLB manager.  Hey Congrats on being over .500, since 2021 his record is 360 - 373, 2019 was great but was 5+ seasons ago, I don't give him or anybody credit for 2020 because it was a partial season and any team can play well for 60 games (You know like the Marlins, who surrounded 2020 with 105 and 95 loses. 

[TwinsDr2021]

20 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

Twins look awful again.  The Twins have missed the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years.  Likely to be 4 of 5 yet Falvey and Baldelli take no accountability or responsibility.  I'm not surprised.  It's the Twins way.

How can you complain don't you know since this FO got here they are over .500, have built a pitching pipeline and have a process that can't be questioned? </s>

[tony&rodney]

9 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

They've won more than fifty percent of the games he's managed. It's the players. Now we're complaining about a guy going seven innings?

The thumb down vote tells one nothing so I'm going to respond.

It's always the players who perform or don't perform, so correct.  Management can, however, dictate who plays and the style of play. If the Twins are not hitting they should probably attempt a few other ways of producing runs, but they don't. Maybe they cannot do anything else but never attempting just guarantees the same results.

Complaining about innings ...? I wondered, above in a comment, whether baseball was trending even further downward in pitch counts for starting pitchers. We all know that 4 man rotations and pitch counts from 110-120+ per outing are not coming back for at least a few years. More and more often we are seeing a pitcher getting a handshake if their inning ends with a pitch count at or above 80 pitches. It is not the innings that matter, it is the game situations factored with high pitch counts in individual innings. These decisions I leave to the pitching coach and manager but it is fair to wonder what the thinking is when a pitcher who is cruising along with zero problems is done after 80 some pitches, whether that is after 5, 6, 7, or 8 innings.

[mikelink45]

10 hours ago, tony&amp;rodney said:

Were there any questions or answers of why Joe Ryan was lifted after the 7th inning. I really like Varland and don't have an issue with it really, but Ryan has thrown 90+ to 100+ pitches before. He was at 88 pitches and another 12-15 pitches seemed reasonable. Again, not a big deal, just a fan of pitchers going 100 plus pitches when they are cruising. 

Although Ryan, Ober, Lopez, and Paddack to some extent have thrown 90 or more pitches numerous times, there seems to be a trend to back away from extending a guy if they are in the upper 80s pitch count at the close of an inning. When someone is throwing loose and easy 110 pitches is not more strenuous once the arm is already working. Perhaps injury concerns which seems reasonable.

I am bothered by this too.  It is the Rocco way.

[tony&rodney]

1 minute ago, mikelink45 said:

I am bothered by this too.  It is the Rocco way.

I'm not 100% sure this is on Rocco totally but he does make the final call. I'm more wondering about the thinking process involved in having a firm number. This also seems like it is a league wide practice. 

Last night the Marlins pulled Cabrera after 7 innings and 93 pitches. The difference is that Cabrera was clearly beginning to lose an edge on his pitches, he has had numerous injuries, and he has not thrown 100 pitches in an outing this year.

[TwinsDr2021]

9 minutes ago, tony&amp;rodney said:

These decisions I leave to the pitching coach and manager but it is fair to wonder what the thinking is when a pitcher who is cruising along with zero problems is done after 80 some pitches, whether that is after 5, 6, 7, or 8 innings.

The smart pitchers don't end an inning with a pitch count in the 80's, they either do it in the 70's so they can come back out or just say "f" it and run it up over 90. 🤣

There are a few pitchers managers still let go a bit longer, but they seem to be only the super stars or really good older pitchers. (Wheeler, Sale, Gausman seem like pitchers the managers are like we know what they can do, the younger guys aren't really given that chance) I have zero issue with taking Ryan out last night (Besides the fact he is on my fantasy team and it cost me points) I think Rocco said, what is the reason to keep him in, we aren't scoring anyway. 

[TroyVang]

12 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Sell, sell, sell. There's not nearly enough here. Let's get this long overdue rebuild going. 

I wish ownership even cared enough to simply push the overhaul button.

What is there to sell? The big contracts likely can't be moved. Jax and Duran would probably get something, but relievers don't bring huge returns.

 

The expiring contracts are Vazquez, Paddack and Coloumbe. I can't imagine we get much for them.

 

The one guy that teams would want is Ryan. I don't want to send him away. Do you?

[Riverbrian]

A new series has started. I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Marlins had a roster comprised of 22 Pre-Arb Players or more accurately less than 3 years experience. 

The Twins had 10 players with less than 3 years experience.  

The Marlins are 38-45 on the year. The Marlins are currently on an 8 game winning streak. In the their previous 5 series matchups, they have swept 3 of them. (Nats, Giants and D-Backs). Going 14-4 over their past 18.   

The Twins are 40-45 on the year. They have been the complete opposite going 4-14 over their past 18.  

I will continue to point out the pre-arb numbers of our opponents every series because it's important. 

I'm not doing this to be a prick but to point out to those not watching the other teams that youth is not the problem with other clubs. Other teams are doing decently with rosters that are comprised of young players.

Inexperience doesn't mean wins but it doesn't necessarily mean losses either. 

Most importantly, I'm doing this to point out that the Twins are not comparing well to their peers in this regard and are spending more money collectively on this problem... leaving less to spend elsewhere. 

Have a nice day everyone. Go Twins. Beat this Junk Guy Tonight.     

[JD-TWINS]

9 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

They've won more than fifty percent of the games he's managed. It's the players. Now we're complaining about a guy going seven innings?

Completely agree Mike!!

The Manager isn’t holding the offense back to scoring 2 or less in 29 of 85 games. That’s pathetic execution by the guys in the box.

Why the hell does anyone care or comment about pitching from the starter or decisions by the Manager when the Team gives up only 2 runs and has only 2 hits?

The hitters generally suck as a group!1

Correa is close to .700 OPS and hitting near .260 - after his first 6 weeks, he’s brought his numbers up and will continue to do so. Castro had a pretty blah first 2 months and he’s really contributing. Buxton, nothing needs to be said, pretty good! Bader is regressing, expected after his first 6 weeks.

Lee - France - Larnach - Jeffers all OK to positive results……..not much heavy lifting day to day though.

LEWIS - WALLNER, practically nothing from them to date. Arguably, the #3 & #4 spots going into the season……..Wallner may need to go to St. Paul again soon?

Could really use Keaschall’s energy & talent ….,,hope he’s back before end of July!

 

[DJL44]

They were 3 games under on June 26. I said they needed 16 wins to buy at the deadline. They are 1-3 since and are now 5 games under .500.

23 games remain until the trade deadline. To be buyers they need to go 15-8. The peak of the probability bell curve is probably at 9-14. I don't really want to do the weighted coin probabilities right now to figure out how unlikely 15-8 (or better) is.

Baseball Reference gives them a 95.5% chance of missing the postseason.

[USAFChief]

8 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

They were 3 games under on June 26. I said they needed 16 wins to buy at the deadline. They are 1-3 since and are now 5 games under .500.

23 games remain until the trade deadline. To be buyers they need to go 15-8. The peak of the probability bell curve is probably at 9-14. I don't really want to do the weighted coin probabilities right now to figure out how unlikely 15-8 (or better) is.

There isn't a scenario under which the Twins should be buyers this season. 

No matter the record over the next 20 games, they are not serious contenders for a World Series. 

I'd prefer management admit some hard truths and begin a process of correcting the above. Starting with a new manager, and including a new philosophy of how to play the game of professional baseball--for one thing, it's not a computer game.

Then sell off anything not likely to be part of a good 2027 team.

[DJL44]

On the plus side, Joe Ryan still looks like a deserving All-Star. I hope he and Buxton have a great time in Atlanta.

[Patzky]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

How can you complain don't you know since this FO got here they..  have a process that can't be questioned? </s>

It can be questioned repeatedly but won't be answered 😔 

[jmlease1]

10 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

They've won more than fifty percent of the games he's managed. It's the players. Now we're complaining about a guy going seven innings?

If you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

[Patzky]

12 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

There isn't a scenario under which the Twins should be buyers this season. 

No matter the record over the next 20 games, they are not serious contenders for a World Series. 

I'd prefer management admit some hard truths and begin a process of correcting the above. Starting with a new manager, and including a new philosophy of how to play the game of professional baseball. Then sell off anything not likely to be part of a good 2027 team.

I've groan 😁 attached to Willi and Larnach,  but think those two will bring the most important returns.  Thinking Jax Varland and Stewart might stay but Duran could gain us a top prospect. Would like to see another season of Buck Bader and maybe Martin before Emmy and Jenkins get here. Royce at first? Lee at Short? Correa at third?  Keaschall at second? Sabato? Julien?  Wallner? Culpepper?Clemens? 

[BrokenCompass]

11 hours ago, tony&amp;rodney said:

Were there any questions or answers of why Joe Ryan was lifted after the 7th inning. I really like Varland and don't have an issue with it really, but Ryan has thrown 90+ to 100+ pitches before. He was at 88 pitches and another 12-15 pitches seemed reasonable. Again, not a big deal, just a fan of pitchers going 100 plus pitches when they are cruising. 

In a lost season, the Twins are just being conservative and not going to press Ryan, it seems. 

He's the only healthy starter left, he's the franchise's most valuable asset, the season is over and they're putting the brakes on. 

[LambchoP]

What would it take in a trade to get Cabrera and Henriquez? Twins need real SP, a catcher and a true power hitting first baseman. None of this will happen at the deadline but hopefully we can acquire some kind of talent selling off all our expiring contracts. There's gotta be a team out there who'd give us something for some of these guys....

Paddack, Castro, Bader, France, Vasquez, Coloumbe. Duran if the return is right. They can't afford to sit out the deadline again like last year.

[BrokenCompass]

1 hour ago, TroyVang said:

What is there to sell? The big contracts likely can't be moved. Jax and Duran would probably get something, but relievers don't bring huge returns.

 

The expiring contracts are Vazquez, Paddack and Coloumbe. I can't imagine we get much for them.

 

The one guy that teams would want is Ryan. I don't want to send him away. Do you?

I'd hate to send Ryan away. Then again, he'd bring a much needed haul. Twins need BATS - they need to listen to offers. 

Of course, in a similar the Twins got Austin Martin and SWR for Jose Berrios and those very highly ranked prospects seem to have fizzled out as borderline MLB-ers. 

Twins don't need to get a team's #5 prospect for Ryan. They need to get the clear-cut #1 guy, like an Elly de La Cruz type who is going to change the game for years to come. 

Remember that the Twins got Ryan for peanuts, so I feel they should trade him and take a gamble. 

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, TroyVang said:

What is there to sell? The big contracts likely can't be moved. Jax and Duran would probably get something, but relievers don't bring huge returns

Duran should return a top, top  prospect, he has two Arb years left and shouldn't be traded for anything less than one of baseball's top hitting prospects. 

Just last year the Marlins got the Padres 2 (44th overall) ,4,5 for Tanner Scott (and wasn't he a free agent after the season?

[MMMordabito]

44-52 at the break seems about right even though 5 of the remaining games are against Miami and Pittsburgh.  

Ownership will then happily part with multiple instances of two months of salary in exchange for buckets of balls.