Is Baldelli the worst Manager in Twins/Senators history?

[SwainZag]

6 hours ago, karcherd said:

Even before leaving Alcala in too long in Texas, he shouldn't have been in the game to begin with.  It was his fourth appearance in five days.  And it was a four run game, use a low leverage guy and have Alcala warm and ready to go if needed.  

It was not.  It was his 3rd appearance in 4 days.  He pitched a clean inning on the 15th, off day on the 16th, a clean inning on the 17th and this appearance was the 18th.  He hasn't been used 4 times in 5 days a single time this season.

Using the reasoning "should have a low leverage reliever" holds zero water in my book.  You have a 4 run lead on the road, looking for a 4 game sweep and have one of you better arms who is rested.  There is zero discourse for arguing Alcala being in that game.

[SwainZag]

12 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Nonconcur. 

A MLB manager has time to warm up a pitcher in the space of the 3 batter minimum if he chooses to do so. It happens all the time. One sauntering trip to the mound is enough. 

And in this case, THERE WAS A LENGTHY DELAY while they searched for Wallner's glove after the FIRST dinger.

In any case, a MLB manager who can't figure out how to slow the game enough to allow for a reliever to warm, which doesn't take that long, deserves to be fired fir that alone. 

He sat on his *** by his own choosing, not because events prevented anything else.

I don't know what you obsession is with that game.  The Twins went into the bottom of the 7th with a 4-0 lead and Alcala stepped in with his 2.15 ERA.  He threw 9 total pitches and the game was tied.  Why would Rocco be hurrying to get a guy up in the pen when one of his best relievers all season gave up 4 hits to 5 batters, especially with as loaded as the Texas offense is?  The obvious hindsight blows my mind.  He wasn't struggling control wise, he velocity was fine.  He wasn't laboring out on the mound. He threw 4 combined pitches to Taveras, Semien and Seager which resulted in a single, double and double.  That took less than 3 minutes in real time. 

If it were Thielbar, Richards, Okert, Blewitt or a bevy of other relievers I think you might have a case, but that happened so fast with a 4 run lead with a trusted pitcher, to place all this super blame on Rocco....and to bring it up so many times is just crazy to me.

I hate to defend Rocco, but JFC Christ we have had long stretches without Correa, Buxton, Lewis, Miranda, Kepler, and Ryan.  Festa, SWR and Matthews have all had to play major roles in the rotation down the stretch, which is so far from ideal. This crazy way people can use the shortcomings of the roster and some of the best players and just shift the blame to the manager just baffles me.    

Not to mention how much the front office slashed the payroll and refused to add at the deadline.  They also still sit in a playoff position, won the division last and won their first playoff series in over 20 years.  If you guys really enjoyed the 90+ loss teams more than the competitive teams you really have some crazy nostalgia going on.  

[Watersmack]

12 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Billy Martin would lose a modern clubhouse in less than an hour.

Billy Martin never owned an iPad. You can look it up.

[Jocko87]

10 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

Observations:

1. We have so many of these threads going right now.  How many places do people who are irrationally upset with Rocco do we need?  

2.  Yes....it is irrational.  A rational person could disagree with Rocco at times (perhaps even most of the time), but also appreciate what he does well.  Clearly he isn't always right any more than he is always wrong.  Yet the prominent posters we have here (and in the other eleventy threads like this) are never posting about good moves made.  No recognition that perhaps Jax is this good because of his usage.  Or a successful pinch hit.  Or the fact that this team had a sterling record for months when leading late.  Do we see any of that acknowledged?  Do we even see thoughtful criticism?  The answer is quite plainly...no.  It's just the same tripe shoveled out again and again.  Irrational hate is the only apt description at this point. 

3. Yet these folks who have completely abandoned reason want (demand) others engage with their completely ridiculous arguments.  When those brave souls do try to point out facts about real-time meltdowns, manager-front office synergy, or reasonable ideas why the decision was made....there is no thoughtful discussion.  When @ashbury does a frame by frame breakdown to refute an asinine suggestion for Royce Lewis...is there acknowledgement?  Nope.  Just banging the same drum.  This toxic bunch of trolls wants nothing to do with discussion.  They want to spew venom, get some thumbs up, and then rally and harass any counterpoints.  @chpettit19is doing a fantastic job in the other thread.  @Brock Beauchamphere.  What are they getting for their efforts?  Good discussion?  Nope.

4.  Contrary to the beliefs of these trolls...it is possible to disagree with Rocco while also doing so fairly.  I would've left Ober in the other night.  At the same time...we're talking a pitcher that didn't even start in the rotation last year for workload concerns.  And he was taken out for the closer.  I'm sorry, but I can never blame the manager when the closer comes in and melts down.  Would I have done it differently?  Probably.  Does it make Rocco's choice worthy of meltdowns?  Absolutely not.  He went from his best starter to a plan for his two best relievers to come in.  If that plan results in a loss...it ain't on the manager even if I would've gone a different route.  At the very least, it isn't an unjustifiable path.

5. Rocco has a thinned out roster with exactly two good starters and two (ish?) relievers and a precipitous drop off after them.  Including many of the other spots going to rookies.  He has a lineup full of guys we either weren't counting on to be starters, abandoned at some point, or are here by sheer desperation.  The only regulars in the lineup at this point are Santana, Lewis, and Jeffers.  That's it.  Yet we're leading in the wildcard.  He may have cost us games, but he clearly is doing some things right to weather that kind of a storm and still have us in contention.

6.  Constant focus on Rocco detracts from the real villains of this year: the Pohlads.

7. To pretend that he's a terrible manager of the clubhouse despite direct evidence to the contrary is the definition of trolling.  You have zero evidence for your suggestion, yet you claim it as if it's true. 

It isn't possible to engage rationally with opinions that possess no rationality and attempt none.  You are griping.  Not discussing.  Not criticizing.  Griping.

[Jocko87]

13 hours ago, USAFChief said:

MANAGE.

It's the job description. 

Rather than sit on your *** and watch the thing burn down, MANAGE. "Nothing he could do" is simply more excuse making for Rocco.

I'm not excusing Alcala. He was immediately awful. 

Which is WHY a MLB manager has to find a way to get him out of the game before he gives up FIVE runs. FIVE.

Shouldn't have happened. Didn't need to happen. 

Entirely on Rocco that it DID happen.

These are managerial decisions. They gave consequences. 

At the least defend the decisions.

"Nothing he could do" is lame.

The problem with this is that the absolute worst possible thing a manager, in any organization, can do-is over-manage. 

Has he pulled Alcala after say, 4 pitches, you would have questioned him.  We all recognize that.

Quick, give me a single instance of Rocco pulling a pitcher early that we all hated.  What's that?  There are hundreds?  Do we have the server capacity?

Now, and this is the important part, tell me which one of those early pulls that saved a situation where 4-5 runs were about to be given up in very short order.  No way to know, but probably a lot of them.

So if, for the sake of argument, we concede that this Alcala incident you are stuck on didn't work out, what would his success rate be in that situation?  Probably pretty good, overall, but that won't change your mind.

The cardinal rule of evaluating managers, in any organization, is to not assign too much value to any one standard decision, regardless of how bad the result is.  The first ( and last) question on the decision tree is "would we make that same choice again?"  In the Alcala case, the answer is probably yes.

Or, more simply stated, hindsight is 20/20.  I could win 162 if I knew how things would turn out.  I'd have to take a heck of a lot of TwinsDaily heat in the process, but I'd win 162. 

I defend the decision by recognizing that they would do the same thing again in the same situation and it would work ~95% of the time.

This incident isn't the indictment of Rocco that you think it is.

[John Kelsey]

Is this a joke?

[Twodogs]

22 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Billy Martin would lose a modern clubhouse in less than an hour.

Maybe, maybe not.  He might have gone out and beat the crap out of Angel Hernandez for them.  Everyone has suspicions about how people would react to someone from a different era, you know Billy might have gotten in someones face here and there, but, if they felt he always had their back, and would fight for them, you'd probably be surprised how many players, even today would rally around him.  On the flip side when someone in the front office told him to pull a pitcher, or to platoon a guy, Billy would probably knock the crud out of that guy too.  So anyone can try to predict or assume, but until it actually happens you really don't know.  

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

10 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

Quick, give me a single instance of Rocco pulling a pitcher early that we all hated.  What's that?  There are hundreds?  Do we have the server capacity?

ok well that is an impossible ask.

Anyway, the wild card series is probably going to line up Game 1 Ober and then Game 2 Lopez. (but maybe not; still time for shuffling)

Rocco has a history of pulling his starters extremely early in past postseason games. I don't think you will be able to justify doing that this year. I also think Rocco leaves in Ober through minimum 6 and Lopez 7 through sheer necessity, because he doesn't have a better option. Agreed?

[Twodogs]

23 hours ago, TopTwinsFan said:

Baldellis lifetime record is far superior to Kelly's. Doesn't anyone think that makes Rocco a better manager?

I don't disagree, this is a fact.  But let me give you a different way to think about it.  The Minnesota Vikings have the 8th best overall record ever in the NFL, The Los Angeles Rams come in at 16th best record, barely over .500.  So overall the Vikings have been better by quite a bit.  But which teams fans are more satisfied?  The Vikings fans who have never won the big one?  Or Rams fans who have 2 Superbowl titles and 4 NFL titles overall?  I mean TK won 2 world series titles with teams that were really probably out matched by their opponents.  Just a different way to look at it.  

[Jocko87]

47 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

ok well that is an impossible ask.

Anyway, the wild card series is probably going to line up Game 1 Ober and then Game 2 Lopez. (but maybe not; still time for shuffling)

Rocco has a history of pulling his starters extremely early in past postseason games. I don't think you will be able to justify doing that this year. I also think Rocco leaves in Ober through minimum 6 and Lopez 7 through sheer necessity, because he doesn't have a better option. Agreed?

That's basically my point.  We all see and know the times when putting in a reliever goes wrong because it's spectacular.  When it works, nobody notices.  Hit rate can be 99% and we only remember the bad times.

He also did that in years when he was pulling them early in the regular season too.  He will let them go longer mostly because he trusts them more.  The weaker bullpen probably helps that he's only going to be using the good options in the playoffs unless things go horribly bad. 

In a Pablo or Ober start in the playoffs, i think it will be similar to this past few weeks.  If he gets a game like Ober against KC last week, I think he plays it the same way no matter how good Ober looks.

He generally manages differently in crunch time/postseason and we are seeing it now.  I think much of the frustration expressed in the past few days ties to this.  We as fans want to win every night and want him to keep the pedal mashed but that's not reality over a long season. 

[Shaitan]

10 hours ago, Twodogs said:

I don't disagree, this is a fact.  But let me give you a different way to think about it.  The Minnesota Vikings have the 8th best overall record ever in the NFL, The Los Angeles Rams come in at 16th best record, barely over .500.  So overall the Vikings have been better by quite a bit.  But which teams fans are more satisfied?  The Vikings fans who have never won the big one?  Or Rams fans who have 2 Superbowl titles and 4 NFL titles overall?  I mean TK won 2 world series titles with teams that were really probably out matched by their opponents.  Just a different way to look at it.  

Weird analogy. You know the Rams have played in like 5 cities, right?

[Twodogs]

1 hour ago, Shaitan said:

Weird analogy. You know the Rams have played in like 5 cities, right?

I'm not sure how that has anything to do with it?  Jim Leyland managed in 4 different cities. Does that make him a worse manager than Rocco?  

My point was....  Which team is better?  The team with more wins?  Or the team with 4 titles??  I think people would say the team with the 4 titles??  

[MinnInPa]

manager cant do anything about a guy watching strike 3 with no outs and guys on 2nd and 3rd....3 guys striking out in a row after leadoff guy gets on...guys swinging at balls in the dirt ..after watching 2 fastballs right down the pike....guys trying to score from 3rd on balls hit right at 3B.... pitchers throwing 0-2 counts in the zone..and lastly ..a bullpen that throws meatballs and cant miss bats.. no lead is safe with that crew

[Craig Arko]

I do feel confident in saying that the best manager in Twins history is the Sausage. 

[JD-TWINS]

On 9/10/2024 at 9:35 AM, Rick Blaine said:

Rigney wasn't a bad manager, in fact he came with a strong resume. He won the division in 1970, despite losing Rod Carew early in the season to injury. It did help that Harmon Killebrew, Tony Olivia and Jim Perry all had career years. In 1971, those three all seemed to age quickly. 

The biggest knock on Rigney was he replaced popular Billy Martin, who won the division in 1969 with virtually the same team as 1970.  Martin and Calvin Griffith's feud was legendary in Twins territory.  Martin went to have a very successful managerial career that didn't help Rigney's popularity. 

‘72 offense slid.

In 1971 Tony Oliva lead the A.L. in Slug% - was an All-star - Won Batting Title hitting .337.

Killebrew was an All-star - he lead the A.L. in Walks & RBI in 1971.

Perry, possibly based on previous year, was an All-star in 1971. He threw 270 innings but his ERA went up 1.2 runs to 4.23 while giving up most HR’s in A.L. He wasn’t great & went 17-17.

Martin was the Manager for a year prior to Rigney and had done a great job ON the field. In 1970 Rigney followed him, which was what Management/Ownership wanted but it was like watching a zombie manage after Martin - Team had little juice up against the Orioles.

[JD-TWINS]

21 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

That's basically my point.  We all see and know the times when putting in a reliever goes wrong because it's spectacular.  When it works, nobody notices.  Hit rate can be 99% and we only remember the bad times.

He also did that in years when he was pulling them early in the regular season too.  He will let them go longer mostly because he trusts them more.  The weaker bullpen probably helps that he's only going to be using the good options in the playoffs unless things go horribly bad. 

In a Pablo or Ober start in the playoffs, i think it will be similar to this past few weeks.  If he gets a game like Ober against KC last week, I think he plays it the same way no matter how good Ober looks.

He generally manages differently in crunch time/postseason and we are seeing it now.  I think much of the frustration expressed in the past few days ties to this.  We as fans want to win every night and want him to keep the pedal mashed but that's not reality over a long season. 

Playoff Team often loses 46-47% of their games through 162……..Manager, as you point out, doesn’t lose any more games than they win with strategic moves…….fans love to hate when things don’t go well and assume Wins should be the norm when things go well.

[JD-TWINS]

On 9/10/2024 at 11:33 AM, USAFChief said:

Bone to pick: Rocco's worst managing job wasn't Saturday in KC.

Three weeks ago in Texas Rocco sat on his hands watching Jorge Alcala turn a 4-0 7th inning lead into a 5-4 deficit. With a three or so minute delay included while Texas ballpark security searched for Matt Wallner's glove over the left field fence. 

As bad as removing Ober was, that was worse. Way worse.

And if you believe in momentum, or anything like it, that's the point at which this current collapse started.

 

 

Alcala gave up a 4 run lead in 9 pitches ……..after 4 pitches it was 4-2. Alcala had a sub 2.00 ERA entering the outing so there was no reason “to have someone ready”. Alcala absolutely sucked and blaming Baldelli for that is nuts. Players have to do their job. I watched the whole thing too and was really pissed off but it wasn’t a Managing issue.

He did leave Alcala in after the game was tied…….that could have been handled differently. Alcala got to 2 outs - then gave up another dinger for the loss. Again, he had a sub 2.00 ERA entering the inning.

[nicksaviking]

23 hours ago, Twodogs said:

Maybe, maybe not.  He might have gone out and beat the crap out of Angel Hernandez for them.  Everyone has suspicions about how people would react to someone from a different era, you know Billy might have gotten in someones face here and there, but, if they felt he always had their back, and would fight for them, you'd probably be surprised how many players, even today would rally around him.  On the flip side when someone in the front office told him to pull a pitcher, or to platoon a guy, Billy would probably knock the crud out of that guy too.  So anyone can try to predict or assume, but until it actually happens you really don't know.  

Billy Martin would be more likely to beat up Baily Ober than Angel Hernandez or Derek Falvey.

Regardless of who he wanted to physically fight, only a fringe group of players would have respected it (Josh Donaldson?) and no owner or the commissioner would tolerate it in today's game. And for good reason.

[specialiststeve]

On 9/10/2024 at 8:28 AM, Brock Beauchamp said:

This is an absolutely ridiculous premise. The Senators had like 50 losing seasons in a row.

Would disagree... Senators had very little talent. Rocco's teams have had plenty of that!! 

His "sitting on his hands" and not doing anything to generate runs for those of us that have coached the sport is just plain bad managing. Pair that with his incompetence of how to run a bullpen... He is up there as one of the worst. 

Having talent and not using it competently would be more of a measuring stick than just plain wins and losses.

[IndianaTwin]

On 9/10/2024 at 9:55 AM, Rick Blaine said:

True, but I think most on TD only remember the four Twins managers in their lifetime. 

Cookie Lavagetto, the Twins first manager in 61, who only lasted a half season, wins the best name contest - hands down. 

Actually, it often seems that TD only remembers the manager of the last four weeks. 

Which is another way of saying that recency bias is real in many areas of life, but can be especially prevalent among sports fans. 

[RpR]

On 9/10/2024 at 8:28 AM, Brock Beauchamp said:

This is an absolutely ridiculous premise. The Senators had like 50 losing seasons in a row.

Show me where the Senators had 50 losing seasons in a row.

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, specialiststeve said:

Would disagree... Senators had very little talent. Rocco's teams have had plenty of that!! 

His "sitting on his hands" and not doing anything to generate runs for those of us that have coached the sport is just plain bad managing. Pair that with his incompetence of how to run a bullpen... He is up there as one of the worst. 

Having talent and not using it competently would be more of a measuring stick than just plain wins and losses.

Talent is pretty subjective, but just looking at the Twins/Senators franchise page on BBR, the Twins best player by WAR this year is Byron Buxton at 3.3. The Senators only had one season where a player had less than that. With 16 games left, Buxton could pass a couple more of those teams if he comes in hot, (of course the Senators always played about 154 games) but even if it's due to injury, the Twins clearly don't have the horses this year.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIN/

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 hours ago, RpR said:

Show me where the Senators had 50 losing seasons in a row.

An obvious exaggeration meant to point out they were an awful baseball team for almost their entire existence.

[RpR]

8 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

An obvious exaggeration meant to point out they were an awful baseball team for almost their entire existence.

The only time they were well below average was the 1950s when they were even once and had a winning percentage once.

Your statement was silly.

[Schmoeman5]

5 hours ago, RpR said:

The only time they were well below average was the 1950s when they were even once and had a winning percentage once.

Your statement was silly.

16 seasons above .500 from 1901-1959

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, Schmoeman5 said:

16 seasons above .500 from 1901-1959

.276 season winning record average.  Not good.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

On 9/10/2024 at 2:53 PM, TheLeviathan said:

Observations:

1. We have so many of these threads going right now.  How many places do people who are irrationally upset with Rocco do we need?  

2.  Yes....it is irrational.  A rational person could disagree with Rocco at times (perhaps even most of the time), but also appreciate what he does well.  Clearly he isn't always right any more than he is always wrong.  Yet the prominent posters we have here (and in the other eleventy threads like this) are never posting about good moves made.  No recognition that perhaps Jax is this good because of his usage.  Or a successful pinch hit.  Or the fact that this team had a sterling record for months when leading late.  Do we see any of that acknowledged?  Do we even see thoughtful criticism?  The answer is quite plainly...no.  It's just the same tripe shoveled out again and again.  Irrational hate is the only apt description at this point. 

3. Yet these folks who have completely abandoned reason want (demand) others engage with their completely ridiculous arguments.  When those brave souls do try to point out facts about real-time meltdowns, manager-front office synergy, or reasonable ideas why the decision was made....there is no thoughtful discussion.  When @ashbury does a frame by frame breakdown to refute an asinine suggestion for Royce Lewis...is there acknowledgement?  Nope.  Just banging the same drum.  This toxic bunch of trolls wants nothing to do with discussion.  They want to spew venom, get some thumbs up, and then rally and harass any counterpoints.  @chpettit19is doing a fantastic job in the other thread.  @Brock Beauchamphere.  What are they getting for their efforts?  Good discussion?  Nope.

4.  Contrary to the beliefs of these trolls...it is possible to disagree with Rocco while also doing so fairly.  I would've left Ober in the other night.  At the same time...we're talking a pitcher that didn't even start in the rotation last year for workload concerns.  And he was taken out for the closer.  I'm sorry, but I can never blame the manager when the closer comes in and melts down.  Would I have done it differently?  Probably.  Does it make Rocco's choice worthy of meltdowns?  Absolutely not.  He went from his best starter to a plan for his two best relievers to come in.  If that plan results in a loss...it ain't on the manager even if I would've gone a different route.  At the very least, it isn't an unjustifiable path.

5. Rocco has a thinned out roster with exactly two good starters and two (ish?) relievers and a precipitous drop off after them.  Including many of the other spots going to rookies.  He has a lineup full of guys we either weren't counting on to be starters, abandoned at some point, or are here by sheer desperation.  The only regulars in the lineup at this point are Santana, Lewis, and Jeffers.  That's it.  Yet we're leading in the wildcard.  He may have cost us games, but he clearly is doing some things right to weather that kind of a storm and still have us in contention.

6.  Constant focus on Rocco detracts from the real villains of this year: the Pohlads.

7. To pretend that he's a terrible manager of the clubhouse despite direct evidence to the contrary is the definition of trolling.  You have zero evidence for your suggestion, yet you claim it as if it's true. 

It isn't possible to engage rationally with opinions that possess no rationality and attempt none.  You are griping.  Not discussing.  Not criticizing.  Griping.

I appreciate this post.  I truly appreciate this post.  The sad part is that the ones that need to read it won't, or think it isn't them, or jyst flat out ignore it and keep trolling.

[Twodogs]

14 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Billy Martin would be more likely to beat up Baily Ober than Angel Hernandez or Derek Falvey.

Regardless of who he wanted to physically fight, only a fringe group of players would have respected it (Josh Donaldson?) and no owner or the commissioner would tolerate it in today's game. And for good reason.

https://fwtx.com/culture/the-legend-of-billy-martin-—-baseball’s-lone-ranger/#:~:text=“I loved playing for Billy,loved his intensity%2C his competitiveness.

 

Interesting read.  You might be surprised what the players thought about Billy.  Although self destructive, many of the players felt he always had their backs.  

[Schmoeman5]

On 9/11/2024 at 1:45 AM, Jocko87 said:

The problem with this is that the absolute worst possible thing a manager, in any organization, can do-is over-manage. 

Has he pulled Alcala after say, 4 pitches, you would have questioned him.  We all recognize that.

Quick, give me a single instance of Rocco pulling a pitcher early that we all hated.  What's that?  There are hundreds?  Do we have the server capacity?

Now, and this is the important part, tell me which one of those early pulls that saved a situation where 4-5 runs were about to be given up in very short order.  No way to know, but probably a lot of them.

So if, for the sake of argument, we concede that this Alcala incident you are stuck on didn't work out, what would his success rate be in that situation?  Probably pretty good, overall, but that won't change your mind.

The cardinal rule of evaluating managers, in any organization, is to not assign too much value to any one standard decision, regardless of how bad the result is.  The first ( and last) question on the decision tree is "would we make that same choice again?"  In the Alcala case, the answer is probably yes.

Or, more simply stated, hindsight is 20/20.  I could win 162 if I knew how things would turn out.  I'd have to take a heck of a lot of TwinsDaily heat in the process, but I'd win 162. 

I defend the decision by recognizing that they would do the same thing again in the same situation and it would work ~95% of the time.

This incident isn't the indictment of Rocco that you think it is.

I'm not a Rocco hater. I still don't like a lot of his decisions. PH Margot 29 times. 0 for 29. PH is not easy. Maybe try someone else. In a lot of those opportunities the guy he PH for either Larnach or Wallner are better than him defensively as well. I don't have the numbers but in numerous instances as soon as Margot is announced the opposing manager brings in a righty negating any advantage Margot might have had. Sometimes as early as the 5th inning. And then get 2 more AB against a RH. You and others constantly defend him. And then when these are pointed out you'll thumbs down them. And then you'll ask them to make relevant points which you just brush off as nonsense. I know his strategy as a FAN. I don't disagree with his RH LH lineups. In fact when he's had Margot hitting leadoff against LH he's done quite well. I'll even agree with your premise on Alcala. But once it got to 4-4 he should have been lifted as he clearly didn't have it. And he's been struggling ever since. I'm not one calling for his job either. Just because one might be the smartest in the room doesn't make them right. A lot of talk about players loving him and him being a players manager. That's supposedly a known fact. That's NOT a known fact. It's a perception that's not entirely true. And besides. Who cares if somebody is trolling. Does a troll change the way you feel about the Twins? It seems to bother quite a few. I could care less. I've stepped away from game threads just because of the trolls who come out at the 1st hiccup the Twins have EVERY single time. I still watch every game. I still root for them. I'm happy with a W and take the losses like a player does. And if I question Rocco; it's an opinion. That's all. But I'll still get the thumbs down by the same cast of characters who hate the trolls. And I personally invest a LOT of time and money following them. So thumbs down 👎 away. Oh, and I question your math when you say if Rocco had to do the same thing again regarding the Alcala game and he stands by that decision because hed have a 95% success rate. That's just a wild and random number. Case in point. I think Duran is 23 out of 25 in save opportunities.  That's a 92% rate. Thats pretty good.. So to say 95% of the time it will work is high. Way high. Case in point #2. Margot 0-29 as a PH.

[Doctor Wu]

On the overall subject of managers, I haven't dived into the nitty gritty research yet, but it sure seems that compared to other MLB teams, the Twins have had fewer managers in the past 60 years. Not sure if that is a good thing or not, but our turnover seems a lot less than other teams.