Padres 7, Twins 5: Bullpen and Baserunning Blunders Abound

[umterp23]

Back to back tough losses in very winnable games.  Rocco is Rocco, so won't pile on but 3 things that shoulda, coulda, woulda not grasped defeat from the jaws of victory.

1. Martin thinking he was going to score on bad/no one covering 3rd base frantic moment

2. Miranda with bases loaded had one job to do get ball out of the infield even if it meant sac fly. Some will argue the very bad 1st pitch called strike changes the type of at bat needed, but I will argue it was one pitch and only the first pitch.

3. Why oh why would Jax who threw only 10 pitches (9 strikes) not come out to start the next inning?  Tight ball game and you need to lock down the 2 run lead at least for momentum sakes.  

Other than that the guys battled, came back and then implosion by some guy(s) in the pen which is unfortunate.

Salvage the road trip today and then go on a much needed home stand run to put pressure on the Indians, pains me to say Guardians

Go Twins

 

[mikelink45]

My issues are two - Margot and Okert.

I know they are the big additions the FO made so we have to make them succeed - right?  Well two things about Margot who will make it through the season rather than bring up Keirsey - we should not use  him as a PH (0 - 25) how long does it take to learn that?  Soon he will have an accidental hit and Rocco will feel justified.  But today was not a PH - instead he is leadoff again.  Come on.  He is not a lead off hitter.  Don't we have someone better?  His is a bottom three hitter.  

Okert has had so many really bad - not just bad relief appearances I just cannot stand to hear his name in the BP.  DFA makes sense - Varland is the next man up for the pen and he deserves to take Okert's spot.  Winder is better than Okert. And looking at the BP chart there were other options in this game.  They did nothing in FA, nothing in trades, so do something with our pitching pipeline.

Bonus grumble - Castro is being over exposed. Can we call up a real SS to cover the position and let Castro take some days off?

[David Maro]

Little League baserunning and managing will cost this team the playoffs.They have a good chance of losing 7 more games with St Louis and Atlanta next.It doesn't help when you're 2 big dollar players are not available.

[Mortimerkenny21]

I watched the whole game, what a craptastic way to end it. Up by two runs in the 8th, I get the lefty lefty match up......Buuuuuuttt OKERT SUCKS!!! I know the bullpen is getting worked pretty hard lately but use a better reliever than him. Do what it takes to win the game! That game was ours to win, oh well on to the next.

[SF Twins Fan]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I typically don't comment on the game unless I actually watched the game.  I went to bed around the 4th inning. 

However, I will put my helmet on and say this. 

Okert vs LHB - OPS .530 - 59 PA's

Okert vs RHB - OPS .956 - 88 PA's

The batting order in the 8th for the Padres went Left, Left Switch, Left, Right, Right.

If you have an Okert on your roster... That's when you deploy an Okert. Left Left Switch Left. 

Now... That may sound like a defense of Okert or a defense of Baldelli. It's not. If I could direct your attention to the 88 PA's vs RHB and the 59 PA's vs LHB. 

This is what happens when you roster specialists. Okert gets lefties out but faces more right handers. 

When you face more right handed hitters to the tune of OPS .956 WHIP 2.06. Is there anything special left about this specialist?

I'd contend the benefit has been drowned. 

Okert, Margot... Same damn boat as far as I'm concerned. 

Oh Well... Today is a new day. Strap it on... Go Twins.  

 

 

 

The problem is, and everyone knew it would happen except Rocco apparently, that San Diego had the full bench available to them.  Clearly, they were going to pinch hit a righting in that situation if Okert or Thielbar were brought in.

Who would you rather have hit leadoff in the 8th?  Wade with his .243 avg and .581 OPS against righties or Solano who's hitting .318 with a .877 OPS against lefties?  And, when you look at Profar's numbers.  He hit's .331 avg with a .974 OPS against lefties and .273 avg with a .815 OPS against righties?

 

So, why would you ever bring in a lefty to face those players?  I thought Rocco was a stats guy?

[Doctor Gast]

7 hours ago, 1985Fan said:

With all his analytics tools Rocco still runs Okert out there? We all knew that was going to end badly as it always does when Okert pitches. Since they traded Nick Gordon (since released) for him, they’re going to keep Okert on the roster no matter what he does! It’s the Twins way. 

MIA was happy to unload Okert, who greatly disappointed them last season, As was said Okert should not be depended upon, especially in the NL. Like Gordon should have been released, kept Varland on the active list & put Keirsey on the 40-man & brought up to bolster the OF with a LH bat.

SD & AZ have been 2 of the hottest teams since the deadline, Due to their acquisitions of 2 MIA LHRPs (MN desperate need). Tanner Scott was well sought after so MIA was holding out for the best deal (SD isn't afraid to use prospects). But AJ Puk was flying under the radar. His poor #s from his SP experiment really brought down his demand even though RP #s were great. This FO's strategy is wait & pick over what's left. If the Twin could have seen Puk's worth early & offered Gonzales early in a trade. Early because MIA was motivated, Puk's stock was low & Gonzales's stock was high. Puk's ERA with AZ is 0.96, IMO it could be better with MN.

[Mortimerkenny21]

Only use Okert in a blowout win or blowout loss, not in a two-run 8th inning game. Or just DFA him. Ok, I'm done now.

[Patzky]

50 minutes ago, Hubie29 said:

Simple addition by subtraction. 

Until your entire bullpen is 'unavailable' from pitching the last three nights and your starter comes out after five. Ah hell Willi can throw too right?

[Aggies7]

It’s hard to believe in a team that is 6-24 against clubs with a better winning percentage. That’s 20%. Injuries of course play a part, but you can’t win 1 of 5 against the big boys. That’s a playoff series sweep. 30 games is not really a SSS.

Our players are not well coached. I don’t recall a twins club that gave away so many free outs, and so many free bases to the opponent. “The little things” are magnified against good teams, and that might explain the record.

[LambchoP]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but another Rocco lost tonight. Okert has no business being on a major league roster. Especially since he was only facing one lefty. Rocco said everyone was available tonight....then why did you put our worst reliever out there to face the top of the order? Okert should have been DFA'D months ago. I've got to believe our best AAA reliever or waiver wire claim could add more value than Okert at this point. Bullpen is really showing as a weakness, too top heavy. Very good guys in Duran, Jax, Alcala and Sands. After that, you never know what you're going to get. I will say Henriquez has looked decent in SSS. So did Winder before being sent down. Maybe give him okerts spot 

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, SF Twins Fan said:

The problem is, and everyone knew it would happen except Rocco apparently, that San Diego had the full bench available to them.  Clearly, they were going to pinch hit a righting in that situation if Okert or Thielbar were brought in.

Who would you rather have hit leadoff in the 8th?  Wade with his .243 avg and .581 OPS against righties or Solano who's hitting .318 with a .877 OPS against lefties?  And, when you look at Profar's numbers.  He hit's .331 avg with a .974 OPS against lefties and .273 avg with a .815 OPS against righties?

 

So, why would you ever bring in a lefty to face those players?  I thought Rocco was a stats guy?

Agreed

I'm sure the analysts send Rocco the numbers so he would have a chance to review them. 

Wade is not a threat and easily pinch hit for. Rocco had to know that was Solano was the next move by Schildt once Okert is brought in. They were not going to pinch hit Arraez and Profar has been stronger against left handers.

The only justification for the move is: Slighty better odds against Arraez who is a tough out either way and a big advantage against Cronenworth who was 4th in the order. 

The Padres are interesting because they have a lot of left handers in the lineup. Arraez, Cronenworth and Merrill do not platoon. Cronenworth and Merrill have poor numbers against left handers. 

Cronenworth and Merrill are the two guys to target a left hander since Schildt tends to let them hit... However, Schildt protects Cronenworth with back to back tough right handers in Machado and Bogaerts. Merrill follows the righties in the order but if you drop a left hander against Merrill... Solono will pinch hit for Peralta followed by a right handed catcher. 

It brings me back to a point that I often make when it comes to the bullpen. There is nowhere to run... nowhere to hide. There is no such thing as low leverage in the bullpen. You need relievers front to back who can get hitters out period regardless of what batters box they stand in. 

You want to roster a left handed specialist with a two plus WHIP against right handers. The Padres are a heavy left handed team... This is the team we signed him to face and it still doesn't work because the move is easily countered.  

I was sleeping... so the context is something I have to build from the box score so I'm not comfortable commenting but this is what it looks like to me. 

I would have let Ober face one more hitter (Right Handed Bogaerts) after the Machado home run.

If I was going to use Okert last night... and you have to use the people in your bullpen... there is nowhere to run... nowhere to hide.

I would have brought Okert in to face the left handed Merrill. Let Schildt pinch hit for Merrill if he wants to... take out the CF... he probably won't. Roll the Dice on the light hitting right handed Campusano and then let Solano pinch hit for Wade. If Okert can't get through those three at the bottom of the order. Arraez is next would be his last. Then you can bring in Jax to face Switch, Left, Right, Right. 

Since he brought in Jax first. Okert was the guy who made sense to face Left, Left, Switch, Left which of course... was easily countered.  

 

 

 

 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

You can't run Sands, Duran, and Jax out there every day.  You have to get innings from the other guys.  They need more success in the BP, but any decision they make will be the proverbial "roll of the dice":  questionable veteran, unproven prospect.

My bigger issue is the lineup construction.  Under no circumstances should Margot be leading off.  Especially with Miranda and Castro in the lineup.  Farmer batting 6th?

For everybody arguing that Rocco uses analytics too much, yesterday's lineup was far away from analytics based.

[Riverbrian]

The Padres as a team are heavy left handed team at the plate.

They currently Rank 5th in MLB against Right Handed Pitching. 

They currently rank tied for 17th against Left Handed Pitching. 

Splits are real... it can't be denied... however... I contend that teams should focus on the Right Handed pitcher when building a roster and take your lumps against left handed pitching because 75% of pitching is right handed. 

I have become steadfast and stubborn in my dislike for specialists taking up roster space. 

[h2oface]

If a fan is really honest with themselves, didn't you expect the team to panic and choke down the stretch? I mean, one hopes not, and wants the pen to be the best bullpen in MLB (especially the writers), but I really didn't think this wouldn't happen. So many ways they are just blowing games these last losses. Not just the pen (who are the worst in MLB lately). The plays in the field, the choices on the bases...... 

Hang on. The Royals are poised to pass this team again. Time to wake up, and for Correa to feel the pain and earn his money. Nick says this is an elite team. Really? Elite?

[Fire Dan Gladden]

13 minutes ago, h2oface said:

If a fan is really honest with themselves, didn't you expect the team to panic and choke down the stretch? I mean, one hopes not, and wants the pen to be the best bullpen in MLB (especially the writers), but I really didn't think this wouldn't happen. So many ways they are just blowing games these last losses. Not just the pen (who are the worst in MLB lately). The plays in the field, the choices on the bases...... 

Hang on. The Royals are poised to pass this team again. Time to wake up, and for Correa to feel the pain and earn his money. Nick says this is an elite team. Really? Elite?

You do understand this is a Minnesota Big 4 Sports Franchise?  Letting down fans and choking away championship opportunities is part of the M.O...

[Post-Concussive Blues]

11 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

That's the way the world goes round.

You’re up one day… the next you’re down.

It’s a half an inch of water and you think you’re gonna drown.

[joefish]

11 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

That's the way the world goes round.

You're up one day

And the next you're down

[DJL44]

3 hours ago, LambchoP said:

Okert has no business being on a major league roster.

He's not great, but have you seen the stats of the relievers on the waiver wire? Okert would not make it through waivers.

[Beast]

That game came down to one awful hanger from Ober to Machado and the inexplicable decision to pitch Okert in that situation when he likely had both Sanda and Duran available.

I can give Ober a pass, despite the bad pitch selection.  Baldelli’s decision, though, was absolutely horrendous.  Okert shouldn’t be anywhere near a 2 run lead in the 8th inning against the the superstar-laden top of the order of arguably the most potent offense in baseball.  Absolutely horrendous management.

[Mike Sixel]

Disappointing. Truly. 

[mickster]

4 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

My issues are two - Margot and Okert.

I know they are the big additions the FO made so we have to make them succeed - right?  Well two things about Margot who will make it through the season rather than bring up Keirsey - we should not use  him as a PH (0 - 25) how long does it take to learn that?  Soon he will have an accidental hit and Rocco will feel justified.  But today was not a PH - instead he is leadoff again.  Come on.  He is not a lead off hitter.  Don't we have someone better?  His is a bottom three hitter.  

Okert has had so many really bad - not just bad relief appearances I just cannot stand to hear his name in the BP.  DFA makes sense - Varland is the next man up for the pen and he deserves to take Okert's spot.  Winder is better than Okert. And looking at the BP chart there were other options in this game.  They did nothing in FA, nothing in trades, so do something with our pitching pipeline.

Bonus grumble - Castro is being over exposed. Can we call up a real SS to cover the position and let Castro take some days off?

Who is this SS you speak of?

[mikelink45]

10 hours ago, mickster said:

Who is this SS you speak of?

I do not have a good answer - Holland would work.  Keaschall could be pushed, Castillo.  It does not matter to me if they have a good glove. 

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

I do not have a good answer - Holland would work.  Keaschall could be pushed, Castillo.  It does not matter to me if they have a good glove. 

Keaschell? The guy who just had surgery?

[mikelink45]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Keaschell? The guy who just had surgery?

You miss my point - the thing is, this is the year we need to be all out and we are not. we make do.  get players who play the positions - don't play games with service time.  I do not have the answer as I said, but there are SS at every level.  Player real CF, real SS...

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

You miss my point - the thing is, this is the year we need to be all out and we are not. we make do.  get players who play the positions - don't play games with service time.  I do not have the answer as I said, but there are SS at every level.  Player real CF, real SS...

No one misses your point.... We don't agree with calling up guys that aren't ready or are injured. There is no random guy in the minors better than what they have.