The Twins Are Killing Their Brand, and It's Brutal to Watch

[DJL44]

19 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Brands advertise with Comca$t
Comca$t pays Bally Sports North
Bally Sports North pays the Twins

There are some sponsors at the stadium itself, but I'm not sure how much the Twins actually make from sponsored advertising directly.

Will huge ad money follow Shohei Ohtani from Angels to Dodgers? – Orange County Register (ocregister.com)

Quote

Churu, which sells itself as “Japan's No. 1 cat treat,” soon might have a new venue, Dodger Stadium, for its baseball-related advertising

Brands love in-stadium advertising because it is a constant, non-skippable commercial.

[chpettit19]

Brutal to watch indeed. It's like watching a slow motion car crash. But the driver is crashing into their own garage. Backing up. And crashing into their living room. Then DSP gets out of the car and blames the on lookers for his house being wrecked.

[mrcharlie]

So let me get this right.

Twins ownership with FO following along, talk of major investments in the ball club and fan experience; and follow this up within months by flipping the script and slashing payroll.  All this as the on field play yields the first playoff successs in decades!  RE: the broadcast rights it is unexplainable the FO could not anticipate the issues and get out front of developments to please the fan base.  Another missed opportunity.  To top it all off... Twins lose a key young FO talent within months of her hire to the CHCAGO Bears!  

Can't make this stuff up!

 

 

[bean5302]

Rage rather than reasons in here. Dave St. Peter needs a different role. He's been talking about his inability to improve attendance and consistently missing the mark on expectations for 5 years now. 

Let me help the masses out here. Joe Pohlad got hamstrung this past offseason. When nobody bought seasons after the playoff run last year and the Twins lost money for the 3rd of 4 years, the rest of the family reigned him in. That's what happened if you read between the lines. The re-branding Joe oversaw was a colossal failure. The new jerseys feel/look like something you'd get for $20 at TJ Maxx. The new logo inspires most people to think "Marlins" or "Mariners," and the family decided to stick by Dave St. Peter despite him being inept at discovering what fans want now for the better part of a decade, and ownership was rewarded with this catastrophic failure in the TV deal. Could a TV deal have possibly been worse? I'd argue no. It was the worst imaginable outcome for the Twins. A combination of Joe Pohlad and Dave St. Peter has been devastating. No longer are fans apathetic to the Twins, they're now seriously pissed off. As Joe Pohlad is a "brand" guy, you have to expect he was involved in the shifting away from Dick Bremer, but with the expectation Dave St. Peter would at least be able to get some sort of non-catastrophically stupid TV deal done so the Twins might be seen and appeal to a wider audience. Nope. When DSP flopped at his job yet again, the risky and off-putting move probably initiated by Pohlad was exposed to a worse case scenario. Compounding that, ownership then reigned Joe in. It's a mess, and the dwindling fanbase that has supported the team is taking it in the face.

When it comes to the Twins' payroll, it's fine. $130MM is fine for a mid-market team. The team's been losing money and has spent $300MM over the prior 2 years, but revenues have not covered the expenditures. This whole year looks like a housecleaning is being set up to me. Dave St. Peter. Derek Falvey. They're both undoubtedly on the hottest of hot seats.

[Vanimal46]

16 minutes ago, Tired MN Fan said:

Some of the players do watch though I'm afraid that much of that has to do with a parent being a Twins fan as well.  Fast forward another generation and there will be little to no interest left without a drastic change in intentional engagement.  

Yeah I figured it had more to do with their parents’ watching habits. Then once they head off to college it will be out of sight, out of mind for them too. 

[USAFChief]

8 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

 ... and the Twins lost money for the 3rd of 4 years...

I doubt that's accurate.

I do agree on the "rebranding" though. Another marketing cluster****.

Completely unneeded, to start with. Do the Yankees "rebrand?" The Red Sox?  

But the decision was made...and then bungled badly. The new design is awful.

[DJL44]

12 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

The new jerseys feel/look like something you'd get for $20 at TJ Maxx. 

That's a league wide problem

[USAFChief]

6 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

That's a league wide problem

I don't think that's what Bean meant. It's certainly not what I meant.

The see-through-pants thing is a separate issue. And not D. St Peter's fault.

The Twins "rebranding" is the issue.

[Jocko87]

32 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

There's two options here that make sense

1) Morris messed up, overplayed the Twins hand and they ended up back at BSN with little leverage. The Twins told her to leave.

2) Morris set something brand new up and was about to start it before she was overruled by higher up execs who chose 1 year with BSN. She left because her work was not appreciated.

I'm quite interested in this angle. For an organization that is well known for loyalty and holding on to people long after Twins Daily is done with them this is quite out of character for them.

From the Bears hire article.

"Morris has been with the Twins since August 2021, where she has overseen ticket and sponsorship sales and service, business intelligence, marketing, communications, events and other divisions."

There are several very, very relevant tie ins to current issues in that list.  That the chief revenue officer exited around the same time we got some significant frank news from Joe and Derek regarding, umm, revenue based issues is probably not a coincidence.

Her modern "executive" resume is pretty typical and leaving after three years fits her job hopping pattern but it's a mostly lateral move.  She is even stretching her Twins time on LinkedIn to 3 years by not listing the months, it's publicly under 2 and a half years and probably privately less.

The problem with the job hopping is you never get properly evaluated in just a year at a place. Everyone gets results in their first year. 

[Craig Arko]

It’s a mess, no doubt about that. I remember seeing somewhere the MLB office was somehow involved in the decision to re-up with Bally. Does anybody else recall this and maybe has additional info?

[bean5302]

4 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

That's a league wide problem

It is to an extent. The Twins jersey numbers and text having only one "clean" color with the color matching thread on the uniforms is a disaster. The numbers and text look flat, and like cheap as hell iron-on stickers because there is no depth without outlining the letters with contrast. Joe Pohlad's design team creating a uniform like a mobile app is the problem here. Have you seen the powder blues? They'd be passable without the ugly giant Cooperstown emblem.

[bean5302]

37 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Will huge ad money follow Shohei Ohtani from Angels to Dodgers? – Orange County Register (ocregister.com)

Brands love in-stadium advertising because it is a constant, non-skippable commercial.

That's all great... is there a blackout at the stadium, too? Pretty sure the Twins can still how ads on the scoreboard, but it's probably more effective if fans actually attended the games.

[jjswol]

Good article Nick, in my humble opinion it is one ofthe best pieces you have ever written. The Twins really screwed this one up and the sad part is that they don't seem to care. I watch most every Twins game on TV but I too have Xfinity, primarily to watch the Twins and now I am left out in the cold so to speak. I miss watching the Twins like many other Twins fans but I have to say, it get easier every day. If this goes on much longer Twins fans will get used to not seeing the Twins on TV. 

[KBJ1]

Great article - all true!

Not only are they wasting a window of opportunity for the team (again!), they are completely missing the boat on generating a larger fan base, new fans and all the associated revenue that follows!

Right now they should put every away hame on local TV for FREE just to make amends. They aren't making a dime from Bally, so why not build the fan base. They need to make a bold move, or they will fade back towards contraction.

Lest they forget- 3Million fans showed up and saved the franchise to begin with.

Lose them and you have nothing.

[Mike Sixel]

Good stuff, Nick.

I expect them to somehow cut payroll again next year. 

They aren't particularly good at PR and marketing, and haven't been for some time. That's a leadership issue, and leadership hasn't really changed.... So I think we know where the problems lie. 

And no, they aren't losing money. No major sports team goes bankrupt, no team goes down in value. 

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Brutal to watch indeed. It's like watching a slow motion car crash. But the driver is crashing into their own garage. Backing up. And crashing into their living room. Then DSP gets out of the car and blames the on lookers for his house being wrecked.

You forgot the step where the driver throws gas on the fire they created 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Parfigliano said:

You forgot the step where the driver throws gas on the fire they created 

And blames the fire fighters for the fire?

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

3) She took a promotion to work for the Chicago Bears, a larger organization with a larger fanbase and bigger revenues.

I read the linked article about her - and recommend it to anyone else - and after reading it I had the same reaction as yours.

I also lol'ed at this paragraph early in the article:

Quote

“Meka will rock a dress and some Jordans and be able to sell water to a whale,” says Nicole Jeter West, CEO of brand agency Underdog Ventures. “And she can get away with it,” adds Twins CEO Dave St. Peter, “because she rocks them so well.”

DSP, my favorite hate-read, does it again. He sounds like my Dad. When Dad was 97.  The guy simply should not speak in public.  He always manages to make it awkward.  Break his sentence in two; the last part is merely cringey, but the first part contains a certain amount to unpack, slipping an implied negative into an ostensible compliment on top of the other person's compliment. 

I could envision her accepting a good offer if it came along, partly because any ambitious person might, and partly to get away from him.  I know I'm reading too much into it, but that's the fun.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, ashbury said:

I read the linked article about her - and recommend it to anyone else - and after reading it I had the same reaction as yours.

I also lol'ed at this paragraph early in the article:

DSP, my favorite hate-read, does it again. He sounds like my Dad. When Dad was 97.  The guy just should not speak in public.  He always manages to make it awkward.  Break his sentence in two; the last part is just cringey, but the first part contains a certain amount to unpack. 

I could envision her accepting a good offer if it came along, partly because any ambitious person might, and partly to get away from him.  I know I'm reading too much into it, but that's the fun.

DSP awkward and inappropriate about women? Shocker. I hadn't read that, but predicted it was part of why she left. Twins are stuck decades back in terms of business....

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

That's all great... is there a blackout at the stadium, too? Pretty sure the Twins can still how ads on the scoreboard, but it's probably more effective if fans actually attended the games.

The best revenue for in-stadium advertising comes, not coincidentally, from locations that are in the sight line of the typical TV camera angles. Those ads are essentially TV ads that BSN doesn't get any revenue from. Why else would the Dodgers get an in-stadium ad buy for Japanese cat food? Without a TV audience those in-stadium ad rates are going to be a LOT lower.

[Jocko87]

52 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Good stuff, Nick.

I expect them to somehow cut payroll again next year. 

They aren't particularly good at PR and marketing, and haven't been for some time. That's a leadership issue, and leadership hasn't really changed.... So I think we know where the problems lie. 

And no, they aren't losing money. No major sports team goes bankrupt, no team goes down in value. 

Did you miss the part about the EVP of PR and Marketing having an oddly short stint with the organization? Crazy huh. Almost as if "leadership" was doing something about it.

Also, EVP is very much a "leadership" position.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

Short term financial gain at the expense of long-term thinking.

The decisions that have been made are due primarily to one reason: the fans will come back.

They can destroy whatever goodwill they want because they know all it will take is a strong winning season and the fans will come back.  They always do.  Like moths to a flame.  The Pohlads have had little to no regard for the fans since they took over.  It is strictly a business.  Cash in hand is all that matters to them.

[Mike Sixel]

16 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Did you miss the part about the EVP of PR and Marketing having an oddly short stint with the organization? Crazy huh. Almost as if "leadership" was doing something about it.

Also, EVP is very much a "leadership" position.

Three years is short? 

[USAFChief]

28 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Did you miss the part about the EVP of PR and Marketing having an oddly short stint with the organization? Crazy huh. Almost as if "leadership" was doing something about it.

Also, EVP is very much a "leadership" position.

Not "oddly short."

[Major League Ready]

The first thing I would like to know is if they smart enough to have an escape clause?  For example, they could have included a clause that rescinded Bally’s exclusivity in the event this type of loss of coverage went on for more than X days. 

How many NBA / NHL / WNBA teams will this effect if not rectified?  If all of the leagues are in peril, it’s quite possible there could be collaboration between the leagues.  That solution would likely be far better for fans but that sort of thing does not come together in a short period of time.

Is this what MLB wants?  I would guess they want to get out from underneath all of these contracts that have exclusivity rights.  It’s going to be a hit for the league/teams when that happens but it seems inevitable.   Does MLB / NBA / NHL / WNBA hoping to buy the pieces at auction and start their own network?

We will never the whole story but this cluster has many layers that need to be understood before we know what was and was not possible.
 

[Jocko87]

45 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Three years is short? 

 

33 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Not "oddly short."

At best it's two years and 6 months, if we assume two weeks notice given. More likely they gave her a chance find something new much earlier. Also an odd two years overlap at her previous place per her LinkedIn.

It's very much oddly short for an EVP. At that level, it takes at least a year to get your plan in action. It obviously did not work, for whatever reason. There was a buyout involved, possibly going either way, and I would bet a lot of sausage on it.

I'm going to dig into marketing partnership announcements later tonight.  We might actually have an actual hot lead here that might explain many of the issues we have been seeing. I'd love to see Falvey or St Peter get asked about it.

[laloesch]

2 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

I'm quite interested in this angle. For an organization that is well known for loyalty and holding on to people long after Twins Daily is done with them this is quite out of character for them.

From the Bears hire article.

"Morris has been with the Twins since August 2021, where she has overseen ticket and sponsorship sales and service, business intelligence, marketing, communications, events and other divisions."

There are several very, very relevant tie ins to current issues in that list.  That the chief revenue officer exited around the same time we got some significant frank news from Joe and Derek regarding, umm, revenue based issues is probably not a coincidence.

Her modern "executive" resume is pretty typical and leaving after three years fits her job hopping pattern but it's a mostly lateral move.  She is even stretching her Twins time on LinkedIn to 3 years by not listing the months, it's publicly under 2 and a half years and probably privately less.

The problem with the job hopping is you never get properly evaluated in just a year at a place. Everyone gets results in their first year. 

Job hopping is not usually a good thing in my experience.  You never have enough time to get fully imbedded and up to speed in most organizations in under a year.  She didn't even make it remotely close to three years.  She probably had little to no impact, or even a negative impact as she wasn't around long enough to do anything positive.  

[Rod Carews Birthday]

1 hour ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Short term financial gain at the expense of long-term thinking.

The decisions that have been made are due primarily to one reason: the fans will come back.

They can destroy whatever goodwill they want because they know all it will take is a strong winning season and the fans will come back.  They always do.  Like moths to a flame.  The Pohlads have had little to no regard for the fans since they took over.  It is strictly a business.  Cash in hand is all that matters to them.

Your first sentence hit it entirely on the head.  I'm still struggling to wrap my head around the fact that ownership can't seem to see the damage being done.  They didn't become billionaires by making a bunch of short-sighted financial decisions.  They obviously had better planning than that, and yet, in this circumstance they can't seem to get out of their own way.  It seems impossible that they are really that risk averse here.  What information are we missing? 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

4 minutes ago, laloesch said:

Job hopping is not usually a good thing in my experience.  You never have enough time to get fully imbedded and up to speed in most organizations in under a year.  She didn't even make it remotely close to three years.  She probably had little to no impact, or even a negative impact as she wasn't around long enough to do anything positive.  

People job hop for a lot of reasons, some of which are bad but others of which are good.  A strong up and coming performer is often plucked away after a couple of years in a job.  In this case, she moved to the Bears, who had a bunch of big PR and money things happening.  That would seem like a pretty great place to be (even if it is the Bears).  Or, if you suck at your job, it's a pretty prime time to get fired.  The length in and of itself doesn't really mean much of anything to me. 

[USAFChief]

23 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

 

At best it's two years and 6 months, if we assume two weeks notice given. More likely they gave her a chance find something new much earlier. Also an odd two years overlap at her previous place per her LinkedIn.

It's very much oddly short for an EVP. At that level, it takes at least a year to get your plan in action. It obviously did not work, for whatever reason. There was a buyout involved, possibly going either way, and I would bet a lot of sausage on it.

I'm going to dig into marketing partnership announcements later tonight.  We might actually have an actual hot lead here that might explain many of the issues we have been seeing. I'd love to see Falvey or St Peter get asked about it.

Typically this level of executives in bigger organizations don't stop at this level job. 

Here's one study:

https://www.gong.io/blog/vp-sales-average-tenure/#:~:text=The VP of Sales' average,you're committed to making.

 

I doubt she walked into a better job if she got fired.