Waiver Mania: Minnesota Twins Come Up Empty, Again

[DJL44]

20 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Reports are that the Marlins submitted waiver claims and didn't get anyone. So... The Twins wouldn't have gotten Giolito, Moore or Lopez anyway.

The Reds almost certainly had claims on all 3 as well. The Twins were 4th in line on the relievers. Time to move Varland into the bullpen for September.

[LastOnePicked]

23 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Turns out... this unprecedented advantage to one team was a team in the AL Central when we are the team being chased. 

Lucky us.   

Yeah, it seems pretty unlucky at ground level. A look at the full season shows plenty of opportunities to have gained a double-digit AL Central lead by this point. This could easily have been a moot point, but the Twins simply haven't capitalized on their chances.

So, in a week, this could be a very tight race with a rejuvenated Guardians team. Cause meets effect, as it tends to in baseball.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The Reds almost certainly had claims on all 3 as well. The Twins were 4th in line on the relievers. Time to move Varland into the bullpen for September.

He should have been moved already....so yes, agreed. He's not starting this year, but MIGHT be good out of the pen.

[LastOnePicked]

49 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

I am confused as to what exactly the Guardians FO is doing this season.  

Playing it cheap, protecting prospects, selling high on certain players and taking advantage of weak competition and a unique waiver claim situation. They have half our payroll, better prospects in the pipeline and still a somewhat decent shot at winning this division.

Personally, I'm still more confused about what exactly our FO is doing this season. 

[WinTwins2023]

53 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Looks like they weren't interested in Grichuk or Leone.

Feels like we have an entire bullpen full of Leones already.

[DJL44]

Rooting for Giolito to continue his August pitching performance into September.

[Riverbrian]

23 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I wanted nothing to do with the outfielders.

But hard to see why a team would want Jordan Luplow but not Grichuk. If Buxton promptly returns and Martin or another young OF gets called up, it'd be a better move than Grichuk.

I would have taken Grichuk. Especially with the way that we platoon and our performance against left handers. 

I can kind of understand the Twins passing on Grichuk with the possible roster crunch when players start returning from the injured list. 

But... My Surprise is:

NOBODY took Grichuk? 

[WinTwins2023]

58 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

I am confused as to what exactly the Guardians FO is doing this season.  

The physical toll that this many roster direction changes has on a fan!

[Dman]

I wonder who Cleveland is dumping of the 40 man?  

[terrydactyls]

I have two thoughts. 

1. The current waiver methodology should be changed. If get a player, you should go to the back of the line in priority.

2. For all three additions, the Guardians only will have added a couple million more dollars to their payroll.  That's still getting by pretty cheaply.

[tony&rodney]

No surprise the Twins did not win a claim. The loss to Cleveland opened a window and now the calendar turns to September. If the Twins can go 14-14 to finish 83-79, Cleveland needs to go 19-9 to finish 83-79. In that event Cleveland wins the AL Central with a better record head to head (unless Twins sweep in Cleveland).

The Twins have not managed to rise very far above .500 all season but they should be in good enough position with health and personnel to avoid a collapse. 

Buxton looked ok last night, but Kirilloff looked rusty. AK did have one good swing to plate a run with a line drive single. Austin Martin looks pretty comfortable playing baseball right now. He would be a worthwhile addition for September. The Twins will need to shuffle some relievers around to find a hot hand or two and especially to give Duran and Jax a break. The big question is how long the Twins roll with Luplow and Gallo. Ignoring the statistics all year and focusing on the last week or two, it seems odd to carry players who are struggling to hit foul balls much less move a runner over. Both look very uncomfortable and overwhelmed by MLB pitching right now. I guess we will all find out tomorrow how the Twins plan to finish their schedule.

[stringer bell]

Well, it's Tito's Last Stand. The Guards are certainly better today than they were for the three-game series against the Twins. They have to make up five games in 28, a pretty tall order. I wonder if they would have made the same moves if they were seven out instead of five.

Cleveland claimed Giolito, Lopez and Moore and figure to get Josh Naylor back pretty soon. If the Twins' injured guys all make it back, they'll add Buxton, Kirilloff, Castro and Stewart and perhaps Alcalá or Paddack. While Cleveland got a lot better, the Twins figure to have an improved active roster as well.

I actually think this is good for the Twins. They'll be challenged in the next week facing good pitchers and pretty good teams. It is time to stop looking into the future and start playing their best baseball. They will need it to hold off the Guardians.

[Riverbrian]

10 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

Yeah, it seems pretty unlucky at ground level. A look at the full season shows plenty of opportunities to have gained a double-digit AL Central lead by this point. This could easily have been a moot point, but the Twins simply haven't capitalized on their chances.

So, in a week, this could be a very tight race with a rejuvenated Guardians team. Cause meets effect, as it tends to in baseball.

Where the Twins are today and what could have been yesterday is all part of baseball. Nobody has the answer or the perfect formula. 

IMO... While I point out the unfairness of what transpired today and I believe this is unprecedented unfairness with all of my heart. While I point out the bad luck that it has the potential to hurt us specifically.

To me it is simply the thought that one team gets to walk into a store and buy as much as they want while everybody else waits for the leftovers behind them. This is unprecedented and an unfair advantage for one team. The integrity of the game suffers as a result.  

However... no matter how I feel about it... at this point... this is a discussion on paper only. These three players guarantee the Guardians nothing. They are currently 5 out... they may win the Central or they may finish 10 games out when it is all said and done.   

In the off-season we had a lot of posters talking about the Padres and the money they spent, small market and all that stuff. 

I pointed out then... that the Padres did indeed spend a lot of money but that the Padres hadn't accomplished anything yet. What they did... guaranteed them nothing. I wasn't predicting that they would fail... I was simply stating that, they still had to take these acquisitions and win. 

Same goes for the Guardians today. They still have to take this supposedly improved 26 man roster and win with it. 

 

 

[stringer bell]

I'll be interested to see who the Twins add tomorrow. Castro probably isn't available (paternity leave) and there isn't a pitcher who stands out to be added unless they want Louie Varland. Anyone added would figure to be short term because of the guys who should be on the roster in a week.

[Riverbrian]

11 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

I have two thoughts. 

1. The current waiver methodology should be changed. If get a player, you should go to the back of the line in priority.

2. For all three additions, the Guardians only will have added a couple million more dollars to their payroll.  That's still getting by pretty cheaply.

1. When do you start this new methodology? The season starts in April. Waiver claims happen all year long. If a team goes to the back of the line. Teams won't claim Luplow. Do you reset the waiver order in August? I think you have a good idea but there is still some complication. 

2. Unprecedented. 

[rickyriolo]

Twins starting to feel the pressure. They can’t even win if Sonny goes 7 innings 3 in Texas then 3 in Cleveland maybe getting hard to breathe 

[Alex Wilde]

54 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Reports are that the Marlins submitted waiver claims and didn't get anyone. So... The Twins wouldn't have gotten Giolito, Moore or Lopez anyway.

So... now who is Cleveland spiting?

 

Were they or were they not ahead of the Twins in the waiver order? That is in and of itself enough to warrant claims over the Twins. Especially all three pitchers who would have been on the Twins’ radar.

[Dman]

18 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Where the Twins are today and what could have been yesterday is all part of baseball. Nobody has the answer or the perfect formula. 

IMO... While I point out the unfairness of what transpired today and I believe this is unprecedented unfairness with all of my heart. While I point out the bad luck that it has the potential to hurt us specifically.

To me it is simply the thought that one team gets to walk into a store and buy as much as they want while everybody else waits for the leftovers behind them. This is unprecedented and an unfair advantage for one team. The integrity of the game suffers as a result. 

 

Technically this whole thing is unprecedented so I don't think there will be rule changes.  I think 40 man spots are supposed to be the limiting factor in claiming too many players off of waivers. The Guardians also have to find three 40 man spots for those guys so they might lose some young talent with years of control just for taking a shot at the division.  Probably low hanging fruit on their end but given how well they produce pitching maybe not.

I just don't see them changing the rule but who knows maybe after this they will.

Edit just saw they gave up nothing on the 40 man.  Oh well all they did was get a lot better.  

[Riverbrian]

44 minutes ago, Alex Wilde said:

Were they or were they not ahead of the Twins in the waiver order? That is in and of itself enough to warrant claims over the Twins. Especially all three pitchers who would have been on the Twins’ radar.

They were indeed ahead of the Twins in the waiver order. 

I know that, you know that, Cleveland knows that, Minnesota knows that. A train conductor who follows baseball closely in Chattanooga knows that. 

You are sticking to this... Teams will claim the players out of spite theory.  

What Cleveland also knows that you seem to be missing is that if they passed, the Marlins would have probably taken them.

If the Marlins pass, the Reds probably would have taken them.

They were never going to be Minnesota Twins. 

So Cleveland grabbed these players just to keep them out of Minnesota... Well... then they just threw 3 million dollars away for no reason.   

Cleveland picked up these players because they are 5 games out and they think they have a chance. 

 

[tony&rodney]

Looking at the standings we see both Baltimore and Los Angeles with 83 wins before September, a number that should allow the Twins to win the AL Central. Atlanta already has 87 victories and the Twins need to go 18-10 to reach that total. Our friends, the Tampa Bay Rays, could be a real influence for the Twins by sweeping Cleveland and rolling over when they visit Target Field.

 

[Woof Bronzer]

13 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

To me it is simply the thought that one team gets to walk into a store and buy as much as they want while everybody else waits for the leftovers behind them. This is unprecedented and an unfair advantage for one team. The integrity of the game suffers as a result.  

If you think this is unfair, wait til you hear about free agency in a league without a salary cap!

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Technically this whole thing is unprecedented so I don't think there will be rule changes.  I think 40 man spots are supposed to be the limiting factor in claiming too many players off of waivers. The Guardians also have to find three 40 man spots for those guys so they might lose some young talent with years of control just for taking a shot at the division.  Probably low hanging fruit on their end but given how well they produce pitching maybe not.

I just don't see them changing the rule but who knows maybe after this they will.

I think they have to

It depends on the players association and if they will cooperate without demanding something in return for the new concession. 

The MLBPA should be 100% on board because they were 100% screaming about tanking during the last negotiation but as most of know... in the end... % of revenue was ultimately what they were fighting for and tanking was just a tool they used to try and get public opinion on their side.  

What the Angels did was tanking without compensation and this is a whole new level of tanking and as we saw today... One Team... One Team can add 3 pretty damn good players to the roster as a result.

Yes it is unprecedented and I do believe that this could be a new thing to repeated in years to follow.  

The waiver claim system has to be changed and if the players union is serious about tanking. They better hold hands with the owners and get it done.  

[SteveLV]

It is certainly disappointing, but the likelihood that any of the quality arms were going to reach the Twins was slim.

So you still have the same team.

Go out and win.

(And call up Martin, please.  I want to see what he can do at this level....)

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

to get better in the future and save money.......do you really think they'd spend money just to spite the Twins, based on years of watching CLE not spend money? They did this to try to win. Nothing more or less. Owners and GMs aren't petty children.

Ummm you have a lot higher expectations of GM's and owners than I do.  I think they may be even more petty and and vindictive than children.   I think ultimately though yes Cleveland is trying to thread a needle.  Plus if they perform well, they can make up the money in ticket sales if they gain some momentum.  Pretty cheap way to try to compete the rest of the way.  

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, SteveLV said:

It is certainly disappointing, but the likelihood that any of the quality arms were going to reach the Twins was slim.

So you still have the same team.

Go out and win.

(And call up Martin, please.  I want to see what he can do at this level....)

If Martin isn't up today, I can't see it happening. If he's not up today, he can't be on the playoff roster. He should have been up two weeks ago, but having Luplow on the team seems to be their preference.

[tony&rodney]

Baseball is a confounding sport at times. Texas is a far better team than Cleveland. The Twins took three out of four from the Rangers but dropped two of the three versus the Guardians. It happens. The Twins looked more focused and had better at bats against Texas and their relief pitchers had better luck too. 

Minnesota is in a good position here, both with the lead and a favorable schedule in September. We shall see how determined and focused on winning the Twins are in the next month. I'm guessing a 16-12 record closes out the regular season for Minnesota, leaving the team with 85 wins. This was the near consensus prediction before the season started and would represent a solid overall campaign. 

[Alex Wilde]

14 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

They were indeed ahead of the Twins in the waiver order. 

I know that, you know that, Cleveland knows that, Minnesota knows that. A train conductor who follows baseball closely in Chattanooga knows that. 

You are sticking to this... Teams will claim the players out of spite theory.  

What Cleveland also knows that you seem to be missing is that if they passed, the Marlins would have probably taken them.

If the Marlins pass, the Reds probably would have taken them.

They were never going to be Minnesota Twins. 

So Cleveland grabbed these players just to keep them out of Minnesota... Well... then they just threw 3 million dollars for no reason.   

Cleveland picked up these players because they are 5 games out and they think they have a chance. 

 

5% chance...I thought Cleveland was a smart organization? I guess the trade deadline was a fluke too.

[chpettit19]

32 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

1. When do you start this new methodology? The season starts in April. Waiver claims happen all year long. If a team goes to the back of the line. Teams won't claim Luplow. Do you reset the waiver order in August? I think you have a good idea but there is still some complication. 

2. Unprecedented. 

I'm pretty sure the MLB waiver order used to reset monthly. Or something close to that. Back when the league you were in mattered, too.

[chpettit19]

18 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

If you think this is unfair, wait til you hear about free agency in a league without a salary cap!

Every team is allowed to spend as much as they want. Choosing not to spend on a certain player is very different than by rule not having the chance to.

[Riverbrian]

38 minutes ago, Alex Wilde said:

5% chance...I thought Cleveland was a smart organization? I guess the trade deadline was a fluke too.

You say a 5% chance or some oddsmaker is saying 5% chance and you are repeating it like it's gospel.

So... that's what it is then? 5% chance? 

5% of what. 1 out of 20 bingo balls. 1 out of 20 Red Blankets? Did these moves make it 6%?    

They are 5 games out with 28 games to go. If the Twins go 9 and 19 the rest of the way. They just need to go 14 and 14 to force a tiebreker that Cleveland will win. If they go 19 and 9... the Twins will need to play .500 ball to force a tiebreaker that Cleveland will win. 

If Cleveland sweeps us in Cleveland next week. That 5 becomes a 2. Or that 4 becomes a 1 or that 6 becomes a 3.    

Please don't throw 5% chance at me like it means something.