Making moves for the playoffs with Angels

[jaimedude]

I agree with Jorgan West we should claim Giolito. The Twins tried to trade for him when he was with Nationals. 

[lecroy24fan]

1 hour ago, Doc Munson said:

Can anyone tell me if they still have revocable waivers? or are all waivers now irrevocable?  I know when there were 2 trade deadlines, after the first one teams would pretty much place anyone and everyone on (revocable) waivers.  If they were claimed then they would just pull them back off waivers (which is why it was supposed to be confidential), but if they made it through without being claimed, then they could be traded.

Heck even Joe Mauer was put on waivers.

 

Now with just the 1 trade deadline, I am guessing all waivers are irrevocable?

These are revocable waivers. Last week the Halos put Tyler Anderson on waivers and nobody claimed him so he was kept. However if they get rid of all of these players it will knock them under the CBT tax crap, um cap.

[old nurse]

13 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Wow. That is a move you don't see everyday. Matt Moore and Reynaldo Lopez are interesting pen pieces. Giolito only if you're looking to bring him in and extend him. No real need for Renfroe or Grichuck I don't think.

Pretty much mailed it. For priority, watch to see if the Twins tank Wed.

[lecroy24fan]

6 hours ago, lecroy24fan said:

These are revocable waivers. Last week the Halos put Tyler Anderson on waivers and nobody claimed him so he was kept. However if they get rid of all of these players it will knock them under the CBT tax crap, um cap.

Rethinking this it really won't help them get under it. Anyone who isn't claimed would still get paid by them even if released.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

https://www.thecubreporter.com/book/mlb-roster-rules-presented-arizona-phil-22
AZPhil has a good explainer on Waivers

“If a player is claimed by only one club, that club is awarded the claim. If more than one club makes a claim, the club with the lowest winning percentage (regardless of league) either from the previous season (beginning on the day after the conclusion of the MLB regular season through the 30th day of the MLB regular season) or on the day the player clears waivers (beginning on the 31st day of the MLB regular season through the last day of the MLB regular season) is awarded the claim. If two clubs with the same winning percentage make a claim, the club in the player's own league is awarded the claim. If two clubs from the same league make a claim and they are tied in the standings, the club with the lowest winning percentage from the previous season is awarded the claim. If the clubs are still tied, standings from two years back (or three years back, four years back, etc) are used to break the tie.“

the current waiver period ends Aug 31.

 

[Riverbrian]

7 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

Angel fans are pissed because of prospects they gave up to get these guys...not about the $. Fans have given up from a plethora of bone headed moves by Artie.

The trade deadline couldn't have been worse for the Angels. 

This is why the Angels have struggled for so long.

They don't think they have to develop it... they think they can buy it. 

 

[Riverbrian]

8 hours ago, Azviking101 said:

Fangraphs just confirmed one team can potentially get every player put on waivers today. They won’t move to the back for making a successful claim. What an absolute joke. Manfred is the absolute worst. 

This is the first year that we have seen this. It's a new loop hole.

They will have to address this in the off-season and come up with a new waiver policy. 

In the meantime... 26/28 and 40 man roster considerations might slow the Marlins and Reds from grabbing everyone. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

I don't think I've ever rooted for a loss,  especially against a divisional opponent making them slightly closer.  However,  in this case it could let us add some quality players to the team.   

Currently we are 4th of possible playoff teams,  going ahead of Arizona.   If we were to lose, Boston win and Cincy win,  we would be 2nd in the list of likely playoff teams.  Even still I am not sure it will matter much other than I do think we have a good chance at upgrading Luplow.  

Miami is currently the team that is most likely to be able to upgrade their team, but they are likely against their team salary.  I am hoping they only pick up 1 of the relievers.   They need help in the bullpen just as much as us, unless they are throwing in the towel as well.  

Overall I am not expecting much from this,  but it definitely makes the next couple days interesting.  

[jorgenswest]

Makes me wonder about catch and release. It will come at a cost.

The Rangers might see their likely opponent as the Rays in a wild card match up. The Rays are devastated with pitching injuries. They also see the Orioles losing their closer. Why not claim all the pitchers?

Can you catch and release anyone that get to them and they can’t use? Wouldn’t it guarantee that any further claim is after the critical September 1 roster date? They will likely get stuck with the cost. They would need some 40 man and 26 man roster flexibility. Would it be worth it to someone?

 

 

[chpettit19]

18 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

Makes me wonder about catch and release. It will come at a cost.

The Rangers might see their likely opponent as the Rays in a wild card match up. The Rays are devastated with pitching injuries. They also see the Orioles losing their closer. Why not claim all the pitchers?

Can you catch and release anyone that get to them and they can’t use? Wouldn’t it guarantee that any further claim is after the critical September 1 roster date? They will likely get stuck with the cost. They would need some 40 man and 26 man roster flexibility. Would it be worth it to someone?

 

 

That would be the cutthroat thing to do. Not very player friendly as you'd probably piss off whichever player you screwed out of a playoff roster chance, but if you're willing to sacrifice some guys off the bottom of your 40-man it's a solid strategy. Will be interesting to see how it plays out tomorrow. Really hope we don't watch the relievers go to teams above us in the standings.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

This is the first year that we have seen this. It's a new loop hole.

They will have to address this in the off-season and come up with a new waiver policy. 

In the meantime... 26/28 and 40 man roster considerations might slow the Marlins and Reds from grabbing everyone. 

They had a waiver trade deadline before. I think we will see that come back in some form.

[Squirrel]

8 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

That would be the cutthroat thing to do. Not very player friendly as you'd probably piss off whichever player you screwed out of a playoff roster chance, but if you're willing to sacrifice some guys off the bottom of your 40-man it's a solid strategy. Will be interesting to see how it plays out tomorrow. Really hope we don't watch the relievers go to teams above us in the standings.

So. Team claims them all, then what? If they can’t work a deal for them, can they be ‘put back out there’ for another team to then claim? I’ve forgotten how this works as I don’t recall seeing this many out there like this

[DJL44]

8 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

That would be the cutthroat thing to do. Not very player friendly as you'd probably piss off whichever player you screwed out of a playoff roster chance, but if you're willing to sacrifice some guys off the bottom of your 40-man it's a solid strategy. Will be interesting to see how it plays out tomorrow. Really hope we don't watch the relievers go to teams above us in the standings.

The Twins could do that pretty easily. Grab two players, cut Gallo and Luplow. When Kirilloff and Buxton return, cut those two players you just grabbed off waivers. I think the salaries would be more of a deterrent than the 40 man roster slots.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

1 minute ago, Squirrel said:

So. Team claims them all, then what? If they can’t work a deal for them, can they be ‘put back out there’ for another team to then claim? I’ve forgotten how this works as I don’t recall seeing this many out there like this

Its not working out a deal they are still under contract,  you have just picked up their contract off of waivers.  What was being discussed was teams picking up players so they don't go to a stronger team.  However I don't see it as likely,  the lower level playoff teams have more needs than the higher teams, most of the decent players will be picked early.  If someone has cash though they could pick up Clevinger as his contract is cost prohibitive, but in this case its only money,  no different than the discussions we had about the draft going over the allotted amount.  

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

So. Team claims them all, then what? If they can’t work a deal for them, can they be ‘put back out there’ for another team to then claim? I’ve forgotten how this works as I don’t recall seeing this many out there like this

I'm pretty sure you could claim them all tomorrow and immediately waive them (if you don't want them) to get their waiver date beyond September 1 and make them ineligible for the playoffs. Wouldn't actually have to make any 40-man moves. If another team claims them you'd have to deal with them being on your competitor for the rest of September, but not October. I don't know if that'd deter other teams from picking them up at all or not.

You'd run the risk of taking on a solid chunk of salary that you're stuck paying this year, but you'd keep them off playoff rosters so you wouldn't have to deal with them in October. I'd think the relievers are the ones teams would do this with. But I'm pretty sure every team has a reliever worse than Moore or Lopez they could easily option. The bats aren't really playoff caliber guys so not sure you'd risk the salary to keep them away from other squads. But you could.

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The Twins could do that pretty easily. Grab two players, cut Gallo and Luplow. When Kirilloff and Buxton return, cut those two players you just grabbed off waivers. I think the salaries would be more of a deterrent than the 40 man roster slots.

I think the Twins could snag a number of these guys without any real problem. Would anyone lose sleep over Moore or Lopez replacing Floro? Anyone going to be distraught if they drop Celestino from the 40-man (that may happen this offseason anyways)? As you mention, Gallo and Luplow are low hanging fruit. I don't expect Farmer back next year so switching him out for a righty outfielder (sorry, I don't see Buxton in CF everyday when he's back) instead may make sense. Ronny Henriquez is intriguing, but is it franchise altering to drop him from the 40-man? They could claim everyone, and keep them for a while at least, if they wanted to.

I'd claim Moore and Lopez without thinking twice. They're both playoff quality relievers, and we need more of those even if the plan is likely to move a number of starters to the pen for October.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

7 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm pretty sure you could claim them all tomorrow and immediately waive them (if you don't want them) to get their waiver date beyond September 1 and make them ineligible for the playoffs. Wouldn't actually have to make any 40-man moves. If another team claims them you'd have to deal with them being on your competitor for the rest of September, but not October. I don't know if that'd deter other teams from picking them up at all or not.

You'd run the risk of taking on a solid chunk of salary that you're stuck paying this year, but you'd keep them off playoff rosters so you wouldn't have to deal with them in October. I'd think the relievers are the ones teams would do this with. But I'm pretty sure every team has a reliever worse than Moore or Lopez they could easily option. The bats aren't really playoff caliber guys so not sure you'd risk the salary to keep them away from other squads. But you could.

No one is going to claim them Sept 1. If you aren’t making the post season you aren’t adding the cost. If you are making the post season, you don’t want to dilute your roster with players that can’t be on the playoff roster.

in other words, a catch and release will cost you the salaries

[lecroy24fan]

Just now, Richie the Rally Goat said:

No one is going to claim them Sept 1. If you aren’t making the post season you aren’t adding the cost. If you are making the post season, you don’t want to dilute your roster with players that can’t be on the playoff roster.

Likely not but if someone has an injury they very well could claim a player after that. 

[Riverbrian]

4 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

They had a waiver trade deadline before. I think we will see that come back in some form.

I believe the players union was behind the elimination of the August waiver trade deadline in an effort to slow what they called tanking. 

Of course... teams found a way around that as evidenced yesterday and this version is worse because these players are sitting in a box marked "Free Puppies". 

If one team... let's say the Marlins grab the majority of the best of the available players because they can. That would be a fairly significant on-paper uptick. Also, to make room... the Marlins are going to have to release Yuri types to make room and what happens to the Yuri type? 

It's on paper so there are no guarantees that these acquisitions are the key to victory... However let's say the Marlins grab everyone and then roll right past the Giants for the final wild card spot. Regardless if those players got the job done... the other teams are going to be pissed. 

 Whatever change is made... the players union will most likely be involved but there will have to be an adjustment.  

I've got my popcorn... this will be interesting to watch what happens.  I hope the Twins can cash in. 

 

[pierre75275]

I don't think they claim a hitter to replace Ludlow.

Buxton coming back will replace Ludlow.

AK is the 27th man and Castro is the 28th for September.

That being said, they need to claim both Lopez and Moore. Either is better then Floro.

If they get both, unfortunately, Kody F is pry sent back to AAA.

I wouldn't have a problem if they DFA Gallo and brought up Martin but I doubt they do that. 

I hope they don't pick anybody else up.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

10 minutes ago, lecroy24fan said:

Likely not but if someone has an injury they very well could claim a player after that. 

Sure, they could, but the claimed player can’t be on the post season roster. So you’d lose 2 spots on 40 man depth for the post season. The guy you claimed, and the guy you released to make room.

[Cris E]

I'm not sure other teams will be pissed any more than if they'd been traded for in July or gathered off waivers in earlier years. Teams can see the spots that the Angels are in and can picture the Why of these moves, and they can see the spot the Marlins are in and can see why they'd grab more than one of these guys. Players move within the scope of the rules every year and there's very little complaining.  I think when FRod was able to be added to the 40 man for the playoffs as a rookie it blew up a little, but that sort of things only happens once every ten years.

On the other hand I do like the Free Puppies image.

[DJL44]

2 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Sure, they could, but the claimed player can’t be on the post season roster. So you’d lose 2 spots on 40 man depth for the post season. The guy you claimed, and the guy you released to make room.

Put the injured player on the 60 day IL.

[dex8425]

16 hours ago, GusGus11 said:

Just to specifiy the "all of it" is the 1 month rate of the full season contract. So not much for any of them.

Why did the Angels cut Giolito? They coulda at least QO and got a draft pick in the off season. Odd considering the awful trade they made to get him.

Terrible decision(s) by the Angels. But if all these players get claimed, they get under the luxury tax threshold and then receive a much better pick when Ohtani doesn't accept the QO than if they were still over the luxury tax threshold. 

[Riverbrian]

6 minutes ago, Cris E said:

I'm not sure other teams will be pissed any more than if they'd been traded for in July or gathered off waivers in earlier years. Teams can see the spots that the Angels are in and can picture the Why of these moves, and they can see the spot the Marlins are in and can see why they'd grab more than one of these guys. Players move within the scope of the rules every year and there's very little complaining.  I think when FRod was able to be added to the 40 man for the playoffs as a rookie it blew up a little, but that sort of things only happens once every ten years.

On the other hand I do like the Free Puppies image.

This is new so it's hard to say how teams will feel about it once it is all said and done. We will have to wait and see... However... on the surface... The Marlins can grab them all by virtue of being 1 solitary game behind the Reds.... timing is everything in life I guess.

If the Marlins grab them all and make the playoffs afterwards. The Reds just might have a problem with that, any team that didn't make the playoffs while the Marlins are flying to Milwaukee for Game One is not going to be happy. If the Marlins beat the Brewers... The Brewers may not be happy about it. 

Now... I don't believe the Marlins loading up is going to guarantee that the Marlins will be successful but that 1 game deficit at exactly the right time has the potential to change the scope of things.   

I agree that players move within the scope of the rules with little complaint. However, this is new and different. 

[SwainZag]

Have none of you guys played online OOTP leagues before?  This happens with teams almost every season with some soon to be free agent vets.

Everyone assumes it's only playoff hopeful teams who will be claiming as well.  A savvy non contender could very well claim players and try for extensions as well. 

[lecroy24fan]

5 minutes ago, dex8425 said:

Terrible decision(s) by the Angels. But if all these players get claimed, they get under the luxury tax threshold and then receive a much better pick when Ohtani doesn't accept the QO than if they were still over the luxury tax threshold. 

Yep it goes from a 4th rounder to a 2nd rounder.

[dex8425]

16 hours ago, GusGus11 said:

Just to specifiy the "all of it" is the 1 month rate of the full season contract. So not much for any of them.

Why did the Angels cut Giolito? They coulda at least QO and got a draft pick in the off season. Odd considering the awful trade they made to get him.

Giolito is ineligible to receive a QO since he was traded midseason.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

56 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The Twins could do that pretty easily. Grab two players, cut Gallo and Luplow. When Kirilloff and Buxton return, cut those two players you just grabbed off waivers. I think the salaries would be more of a deterrent than the 40 man roster slots.

For non-contenders agreed. For contenders, the 40 man slots are a big deterrent though too, if the claims are post 9/1, you lose two 40 man spots.

[nicksaviking]

I'm guessing they won't have interest in Lopez, historically, he's got terrible control and the Twins pen is built on control pitchers these days. They should have interest in Moore though.

With them willing to option Ober, they should have some interest in Giolito. I mean Giolito vs Kuechel? That shouldn't be a tough decision.

As for the outfielders, I'd guess their interest would go Grichuk, Renfroe, Bader. I mean, why would this team want Bader anyway, he's just as bad at hitting as Luplow and doesn't do anything Michael Taylor doesn't. I have no interest in Renfroe either. His .623 post season OPS and 34% post season strikeout percentage are awful. Grichuk doesn't do anything for me either, but he's the best of the three options by quite a bit since his bat is comparable to Renfroe and his defense is comparable to Bader. The highest ceiling option is still Austin Martin, which is where they should have turned weeks ago.

But three claims seems like a lot, I don't know if the Twins would be willing to risk taking on all of the salaries. So my guess is they put claims in on Moore and Grichuk and if they happen to get the greenlight to go wild, Giolito as a third.