We may need to rename the "Pagan trade" the "Brent Rooker trade".

[Rik19753]

Brent Rooker is no longer an afterthought in the Paddack/Pagan for Rogers/Rooker trade.

 

When we look back on this trade in a couple of years we may very well talk be talking about the trade shipping Rooker out of Minnesota instead of it bringing Pagan to Minnesota.

I can't really blame the front office because it isn't like they didn't give him a chance, but it sure would be nice to have him on our team right now.

 

What's ridiculous is how he has almost halved his K%. We all knew the power was there, but how does one get a 28 year old to suddenly cut down on his K% so drastically? As a bonus he is walking as much as he is striking out, while still hitting the ball hard as often as anyone in the league. The A's may be horrible, but they still know how to get the most out of players.

[Althebum82]

Good for Brent Rooker, but he wasn't traded from us to the A's, right?  The Padres not only gave up on the two that we received, they also gave up on the two guys that they got.  Yes, Paddack has been injured and Pagan is unreliable, but their existence still on our roster shows some measure of value in favor of the Twins on this trade.  

Rooker was likeable, but his current achievements were hard to envision.  Apparently we must have had one too many oufielders in the opinion of the FO.  Just look at how brilliant the play was from Cave, Contreras, Celestino.....oh never mind.  

I guess it really would have been nice to still have him!

Good observation on the K rate.  That most certainly is a dramatic contrast.

Hope for all continued success for him against every team but the Twins!

[jorgenswest]

The deal would still have been made if they wanted to keep Rooker. He made the 40 man roster numbers work and likely would have been DFA’d by the Twins if kept. Ultimately the Twins chose Garlick over Rooker. Rooker is proving them wrong this far this season.

[Rik19753]

36 minutes ago, Althebum82 said:

Good for Brent Rooker, but he wasn't traded from us to the A's, right?  The Padres not only gave up on the two that we received, they also gave up on the two guys that they got.  Yes, Paddack has been injured and Pagan is unreliable, but their existence still on our roster shows some measure of value in favor of the Twins on this trade. 

In no way am I saying that the Padres won the trade. It was definitely a lose-lose trade. Nor am I mad at the FO for not hanging on to Rooker. Both the Padres and Royals gave up on him, so it isn't just this FO that couldn't figure out how to unlock him.

I just wanted to point out that if (and that's a big if) Rooker keeps hitting like Yordan Alvarez, in a few years we will be lamenting the fact that we traded Rooker in that trade more than the fact that the trade brought Pagan here. I find that both funny and sad because the trade was probably already one of the worst in recent Twins history just for the pain that Pagan caused last year.

[ziggy]

Pagan's stuff is electric but he falls behind 3-0 and has the habit of grooving a pitch right down the middle because he needs to throw a strike.  The hitters are just waiting him out.

 Paddock possibly will provide 2 good years of starting pitching after signing the extension.

The major leagues is a league of adjustments. Let's see how well Rooker hits after the league adjusts to his success. The scouts will find his weakness and exploit it. But for now, good for him.

The Padres' may look at this trade as a win for them by subtraction as most of TD subscribers look at the Donaldson trade as a win by subtraction for the Twins.

When the trade happened, I looked at it as Rogers for Paddock and Rooker for Pagan, one trade for addition, one for subtraction.

[stringer bell]

Rooker was traded to San Diego and then KC. There is more than one club that can have regret if he continues to flourish. I was never a fan, but he has shown something in what had to be close to his last chance to establish himself. 

[tony&rodney]

Rooker would not have a place on the Twins current roster, or even the 40 person roster. Does he slide into DH for Byron?

Good for Rooker that he gets some at bats in Oakland.

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, Rik19753 said:

In no way am I saying that the Padres won the trade. It was definitely a lose-lose trade. Nor am I mad at the FO for not hanging on to Rooker. Both the Padres and Royals gave up on him, so it isn't just this FO that couldn't figure out how to unlock him.

I just wanted to point out that if (and that's a big if) Rooker keeps hitting like Yordan Alvarez, in a few years we will be lamenting the fact that we traded Rooker in that trade more than the fact that the trade brought Pagan here. I find that both funny and sad because the trade was probably already one of the worst in recent Twins history just for the pain that Pagan caused last year.

I’m hoping that Paddack comes back strong and we’ll forget the Pagan part of the deal and think we got Paddack for Rooker 🙂

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Rik19753 said:

In no way am I saying that the Padres won the trade. It was definitely a lose-lose trade. Nor am I mad at the FO for not hanging on to Rooker. Both the Padres and Royals gave up on him, so it isn't just this FO that couldn't figure out how to unlock him.

I just wanted to point out that if (and that's a big if) Rooker keeps hitting like Yordan Alvarez, in a few years we will be lamenting the fact that we traded Rooker in that trade more than the fact that the trade brought Pagan here. I find that both funny and sad because the trade was probably already one of the worst in recent Twins history just for the pain that Pagan caused last year.

They did turn Pagen, Paddock, and 3 others into Josh Hader, and the Twins still have an injured Paddock and Pagen, so at this point the Padres have won this trade in a huge way. Now that can turn around fairly quickly but...

[Mike Sixel]

Unreal. Truly. 

[Squirrel]

10 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Unreal. Truly. 

What is?

[SwainZag]

6 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

They did turn Pagen, Paddock, and 3 others into Josh Hader, and the Twins still have an injured Paddock and Pagen, so at this point the Padres have won this trade in a huge way. Now that can turn around fairly quickly but...

No players in the Twins trade were involved in the Hader trade.  It doesn't make sense to include Hader in the Padres winning the trade with the Twins.  Also it was never "the Pagan trade".  It's the Paddock trade, he just happened to get injured.

That being said, I love watching Rooker rake.  He would have never seen the ABs in Minnesota.

[TwinsDr2021]

On 4/30/2023 at 5:49 PM, SwainZag said:

No players in the Twins trade were involved in the Hader trade.  It doesn't make sense to include Hader in the Padres winning the trade with the Twins.  Also it was never "the Pagan trade".  It's the Paddock trade, he just happened to get injured.

That being said, I love watching Rooker rake.  He would have never seen the ABs in Minnesota.

hmm, Taylor Rogers was the main piece with 3 other nobody's in the trade to get Hader.

The Twins have gotten 73 innings from Pagan, and 22 from Paddack. I have no idea what you even mentioned if it was the Paddock or Pagan trade who cares?

My point was as of now it isn't even close on who won, the Padres were able to swap out Rogers for Hader, and the twins have a terrible Pagan and an injured Paddock, how at this point can that be anything but a loss for the Twins? But if Paddock comes back from injury and is good the Twins can still win this trade.

and yes congrats Rooker!

 

[Riverbrian]

 

Opportunity is necessary for a Rooker or a Yennier Cano to happen.

With opportunity, these type of stories happen all the time. Jake Burger, Connor Joe, Edward Oliveras, Mauricio Dubon.  These stories happen all the time. 

It's why granting every day playing time to someone with an OPS in the sixes and just handing a rotation spot for a pitcher with a 5 plus ERA is the biggest mistake a club can make. 

The teams don't know who the next Rooker, Cedric Mullins, Joey Meneses, Jose Altuve is.  

 

[Nashvilletwin]

Well done Rooker.

The point being overlooked a bit in this discussion is that someone knew how to get the most out of Rooker. Our coaching staff did not.

Forget Correa and Buxton. The Twins have an exceptional opportunity to marry a roster of emerging young position players with some veteran talent and rotation with a solid base.

By far the most important key to a true multi year window is to develop these young players to their potential.

It’s a legitimate question to ask if Rocco is the right leader to get this done.  It’s also legitimate to hold him, as the captain of the coaching staff, accountable for success or failure in this make or break responsibility.

[Trov]

I wrote a forum on Rooker last week too.  He is off to hot start, will it carry over and is he going to be this good all year, doubtful, but he is showing he is a MLB player, not just a AAAA.  However, he would have been DFA last year and good chance someone would have picked him up.  

[August J Gloop]

Brent Rooker is flourishing in the way a power hitter might on a team that is almost always losing by 4+ runs. He gets plenty of cheese, cuz no one wants to walk any As. Good on him for turning meat into bombs, but I have my doubts that teams would struggle to get him out in leverage situations. 

[Finlander]

With 6 corner outfielders on the roster who are lefthanded swingers, I think Rooker may have been able to find some at bats on this squad. He had a nice stretch during his initial callup with the Twins, but nobody foresaw this year's huge decrease in K%. I hope the late bloomer hits a ton and gets traded to a contender this summer. And I hope Paddack gets healthy and becomes an effective starting pitcher for the Twins for a couple of years. What the team has done so far is a testament to the value of assembling a quality rotation and relying in veteran lineup depth instead of throwing the rookies to the wolves.

I think the biggest surprise so far this year is how well Taylor is doing as basically an everyday player rather than a backup. It's kept Buxton protected as the primary DH for now, which exposes the lefty-heavy corner outfielders more. But it's a nice problem to have. I guess if you look at it, Taylor is much more valuable on this team than Rooker cound be when you factor in all-world defense.

[Lartwinfan]

Almost all trades take years to determine which team if either comes out best. Paddock could turn this one back in the Twins favor. Thinking the FO has done well on some and not so well on others. I propose this trade— Alcala and Celestino to Houston for Pressley. 

[DocBauer]

I'm really happy for Rooker. I had high hopes for him and was disappointed he just couldn't put it together with the Twins. I just can't help but wonder if he can continue with this kind of performance, based on past ML performance and SSS this season. But good for him!

Sometimes guys just mature late, and find themselves with the right team at the right time. And opportunity is always a factor. And right now, Rooker has found that opportunity. While I wouldn't DARE to compare him, Cruz didn't find himself until the same age and became an absolute hitting STUD. So things happen.

I do wonder about opportunities for some other young Twins players on the rise, not that I'm comparing them to Rooker. Guys like Wallner, Julien, Kirilloff, Lewis, Lee, Martin, and others that are "oh so close". That's a lot of good young talent that will need opportunity themselves.

Very interesting thought that this might ultimately turn out to be Paddack vs Rooker as a trade. 

[tony&rodney]

On 5/1/2023 at 8:57 PM, Finlander said:

With 6 corner outfielders on the roster who are lefthanded swingers, I think Rooker may have been able to find some at bats on this squad.

Where?

[h2oface]

Trades after a trade doesn't count. It is not part of the trade. Neither does your ex's new spouse. Unless it is within the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon........

[TwinsDr2021]

On 5/1/2023 at 7:20 AM, Riverbrian said:

 

Opportunity is necessary for a Rooker or a Yennier Cano to happen.

With opportunity, these type of stories happen all the time. Jake Burger, Connor Joe, Edward Oliveras, Mauricio Dubon.  These stories happen all the time. 

It's why granting every day playing time to someone with an OPS in the sixes and just handing a rotation spot for a pitcher with a 5 plus ERA is the biggest mistake a club can make. 

The teams don't know who the next Rooker, Cedric Mullins, Joey Meneses, Jose Altuve is.  

 

The only two guys you mentioned that have been anything more than a flash in the pan or somebody that came up and got hot for a bit is Mullins and Altuve, Altuve debuted at 21 and Mullins at 23 went back down for a bit at age 24 and has been a full time starter since. To me this is the Chris Colabello syndrome, the guy had 330 really good at bats at age 31, never before and never after. 

Good Luck to Rooker, hopefully he can be like Dozier, Merrifield, or Reynolds and have a decent or better career after debuting at age 25 not just another players that gets hot for a short time and a terrible team.

[jmlease1]

On 5/1/2023 at 2:50 PM, August J Gloop said:

Brent Rooker is flourishing in the way a power hitter might on a team that is almost always losing by 4+ runs. He gets plenty of cheese, cuz no one wants to walk any As. Good on him for turning meat into bombs, but I have my doubts that teams would struggle to get him out in leverage situations. 

Yeah, let's see how he's doing in another month after pitchers start throwing him a diet of sliders. Or just gets to 200 ABs or so. He's on a huge tear and good for him, but there's a reason SD traded him for a backup catcher (who got waived in the offseason) and KC waived him so Oakland could pick him up for free. Maybe he'll turn into the next David Ortiz, an elite slugger who broke out later after every team in the league had a chance to grab him...but I kinda doubt it.

[Riverbrian]

25 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

The only two guys you mentioned that have been anything more than a flash in the pan or somebody that came up and got hot for a bit is Mullins and Altuve, Altuve debuted at 21 and Mullins at 23 went back down for a bit at age 24 and has been a full time starter since. To me this is the Chris Colabello syndrome, the guy had 330 really good at bats at age 31, never before and never after. 

Good Luck to Rooker, hopefully he can be like Dozier, Merrifield, or Reynolds and have a decent or better career after debuting at age 25 not just another players that gets hot for a short time and a terrible team.

The highways are littered with Colabello's. Maybe Rooker is a flash in a pan. OK... but let's not diminish what  a month of 9 home runs can do for a club. 

It's ok to let a flash in the pan flash. It can be helpful. 

 

[PopRiveter]

On 4/30/2023 at 9:33 AM, tony&rodney said:

Rooker would not have a place on the Twins current roster, or even the 40 person roster. Does he slide into DH for Byron?

Good for Rooker that he gets some at bats in Oakland.

Respectfully disagree.

He'd take his spot from either Kepler or Larnach.

It would make it even more difficult to rationalize keeping Buxton out of the outfield.

This all would require the unfair presumption that they should've foreseen Rooker's production. I don't blame them for failing to predict his bat would flourish like this, but I am disgusted by the offense that's shown up this year. 

[tony&rodney]

2 minutes ago, PopRiveter said:

He'd take his spot from either Kepler or Larnach.

I understand that anyone would like to see the Rooker's current numbers somehow transferred and continued into the Twins lineup. Rooker, however, cannot play in the outfield, unless it is for a team that is aiming for 100 losses. He is a DH / PH only. In the outfield Rooker is good for letting at least one ball per game that should be caught drop for a hit and often for extra bases. Byron Buxton is a fixture for the Twins at DH.

I decided to watch Rooker bat a couple of times last night. Unfortunately and unfairly as a small sample, I saw him strike out twice and look badly both times. He finished the evening with four Ks. This is an unfair sample, but it is also exactly what he displayed previously. 

I get frustrated by the Twins offense at times too. A few times this year we saw how valuable a sacrifice bunt at the right moment worked out positively. Last night the team chose not to go that route. 

We should be happy that Rooker is getting at bats with Oakland and wish him well, but I respectfully disagree that he could play for the Twins for the reasons noted above.

 

[Whitey333]

Who cares who "won" the trade.  As of today all I know is both Paddock and Pagan are not producing much of anything.  We like getting pitchers with arm troubles.  Mahli out for at least a month after 3 stints on twins IL after we got him in a trade.  Maeda traded to us with a history of arm problems.  Just saying....

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, jmlease1 said:

Yeah, let's see how he's doing in another month after pitchers start throwing him a diet of sliders. Or just gets to 200 ABs or so. He's on a huge tear and good for him, but there's a reason SD traded him for a backup catcher (who got waived in the offseason) and KC waived him so Oakland could pick him up for free. Maybe he'll turn into the next David Ortiz, an elite slugger who broke out later after every team in the league had a chance to grab him...but I kinda doubt it.

Agreed that time will tell with Rooker. 

However... I'd guess the limited roster spots and the choices that result from those limitations would be the most obvious answer to his bouncing around and not so much an indictment on Rooker. Teams have to make roster space decisions all the time and sometimes they get it wrong because those margins are very thin. The Padres moved Rooker after they acquired Soto and Bell. There was no space for a Rooker. The Royals... Well... They seem committed to Isbel and they are going to let him .211 his way until he proves them right. They seem committed to Dozier and they look like they are going to let him .236 until he proves them right. The Royals made a choice. Time will tell. 

I think you could also say that If Seth Brown was healthy... Rooker probably wouldn't be getting the chance to hit 9 home runs for Oakland so it's not like Oakland knew either.  

Last year... Rooker hit .289 with 28 bombs in the minors and he hit 29 bombs between the Twins and AAA the year before that. His hitting didn't just blossom in Oakland. He got his name on a lineup card. Good for him. 

The Royals went with Isbel, Bradley and the Franimal. Time will tell if that was a good decision or not. In the meantime... the guy they didn't choose hit 9 bombs in a month elsewhere.   

[PopRiveter]

On 5/3/2023 at 8:23 AM, tony&rodney said:

I understand that anyone would like to see the Rooker's current numbers somehow transferred and continued into the Twins lineup. Rooker, however, cannot play in the outfield, unless it is for a team that is aiming for 100 losses. He is a DH / PH only. In the outfield Rooker is good for letting at least one ball per game that should be caught drop for a hit and often for extra bases. Byron Buxton is a fixture for the Twins at DH.

I decided to watch Rooker bat a couple of times last night. Unfortunately and unfairly as a small sample, I saw him strike out twice and look badly both times. He finished the evening with four Ks. This is an unfair sample, but it is also exactly what he displayed previously. 

I get frustrated by the Twins offense at times too. A few times this year we saw how valuable a sacrifice bunt at the right moment worked out positively. Last night the team chose not to go that route. 

We should be happy that Rooker is getting at bats with Oakland and wish him well, but I respectfully disagree that he could play for the Twins for the reasons noted above.

 

I appreciate your response, and your view is clearly in line with the path the Twins have chosen, so it will have an outcome that proves it’s value while the “could’ve beens” will remain unprovable.
My gameplan for the season would not have put Rooker on the team anyway. My offense would have retained Arraez’s multitude of hits, but would have subtracted Gallo’s home runs.

In the offseason, my dreams of 2023 baseball centered on Arraez’s bat and Buxton’s glove. The FO removed both from the equation and I’m just not into what’s left. It’s made me more of an ex-Twins fan than a Twins fan, so I find myself following the storylines of ex-Twins, thus Rooker caught my attention. I wouldn’t have seen it coming either.