Buxton: "Pissed" at Twins for No Call-Up Decision in 9/2018

[Riverbrian]

I’m on record saying I wanted the year of service time back and remain happy that we got the year.

 

The rest will sort itself out and it is all up to Buxton.

 

If he is pissed. Awesome! I’ve been pissed that nearly 3 years of service time was wasted and he is still chasing sliders a foot outside.

 

Take that emotion and use it. Go out and play like the people say you can and all your problems will go away and so will mine.

 

If you can’t perform at that level. There will be players behind you that take your job and they keep coming wave after wave.

 

Go ahead and be pissed. You have two options. Repair your value and flourish or sulk and struggle and look back at a wasted career.

 

The ball is in your court. If you want to give the finger to someone. The best time to do it is standing on 3B after your 20th triple of the year in August.

[amjgt]

There's the service time manipulation we are all used to and just kind of take for granted (April 15th, Mid-June, etc) but this was different. This was messing with someone you've made future plans with, designed marketing campaigns around, and asked to play hurt that season.

 

It was so different, that it was nationally noteworthy.

 

That's what I'm worried about.

 

This might specifically work for Buxton, in that it might light a fire under him, or it might be that he was gone for sure 3 years from now, but now it's 4 years from now. It might work out and we will never be able to prove it one way or the other.

 

It's other guys, with other agents who DEFINITELY know what happened here that worry me. What's the non-Buxton ripple effect? 

 

THAT is why it was a terrible idea to mess with his service time. 

[Loosey]

I read the article, he was "pissed".  He didn't say he was pissed at the Twins.  He could be generally pissed that he underperformed and didn't get called up when he finally did heat up at the end of the AAA season.  

 

He then says he wants to be a Twin and flew up to MN for 1 day to do a charity event.  

 

I think he is done being pissed and understands the reasons, whether he likes them or agrees.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

* 134 games missed

* 28 games played

It was obviously a rough year, but this accounting isn't quite fair. Buxton "missing" September (final ~28 games) was the Twins decision. Regardless of how you feel about the decision, you can't really cite Buxton "missing" September itself as a failing (on top of any pre-September failings), and certainly you can't use the "missed" September games as part of a justification for the September decision itself.

 

Not that 56 games played would be a huge improvement, although there's also some pre-September questions too (mainly, how much of a role did the Twins have in rushing him back from the initial toe injury).

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Is Buxton out of options now?

No, Buxton has 1 option year left. Only 2016 and 2018 have been option years for him so far. (He was optioned briefly in 2015 too, but spent less than 20 days on optional assignment so he didn't "burn" the year.)

[jkcarew]

Manipulating his service time was smart, IMO. Possibly unfavorably impact his decisions when he becomes a free agent, but not all that likely. Aside from the rare home-town preference, which was never going to apply in Buxton's case, professional athletes (and their agents) go to the team who gives them the best deal. Period. And from the Twins perspective, the extra year is an extra year.

 

Seems that some feel it's unethical or unfair. It's neither. There's a collective bargaining agreement...including provisions for filing grievances. For every instance of FO doing something like this to a player, there are just as many instances of a team bending over backwards to meet the player's every desire, only to see him walk without a second thought the instant he can for a $ more and/or a bigger market. It's a business.

 

Having said that, I'm happy to see Buxton pissed about it. And I don't at all blame him for being upset about it.

[gunnarthor]

 

Manipulating his service time was smart, IMO. Possibly unfavorably impact his decisions when he becomes a free agent, but not all that likely. Aside from the rare home-town preference, which was never going to apply in Buxton's case, professional athletes (and their agents) go to the team who gives them the best deal. Period. And from the Twins perspective, the extra year is an extra year.

 

Seems that some feel it's unethical or unfair. It's neither. There's a collective bargaining agreement...including provisions for filing grievances. For every instance of FO doing something like this to a player, there are just as many instances of a team bending over backwards to meet the player's every desire, only to see him walk without a second thought the instant he can for a $ more and/or a bigger market. It's a business.

 

Having said that, I'm happy to see Buxton pissed about it. And I don't at all blame him for being upset about it.

Give me a couple examples that are comparable of the team bending over backwards to meet a players ever desire? I remember players had to shame baseball into getting a few days of paternity leave.

 

I'll give the Twins credit for dealing well with Jorge Polanco when his grandfather who helped raise him passed away and the Twins were very good about letting Polanco get extra days off. But I'm not sure there's much in the way of comparable measures for the player against ownership. 

[jkcarew]

 

Give me a couple examples that are comparable of the team bending over backwards to meet a players ever desire? I remember players had to shame baseball into getting a few days of paternity leave.

 

I'll give the Twins credit for dealing well with Jorge Polanco when his grandfather who helped raise him passed away and the Twins were very good about letting Polanco get extra days off. But I'm not sure there's much in the way of comparable measures for the player against ownership. 

Hyperbole on my part. Noted. My point would be, players are not obligated to demonstrate 'loyalty'...and in fact haven't displayed loyalty...in many instances where they had been treated very well (as far as what we know) by the team that developed them. It works both way. The players are represented by arguably one of the strongest unions in the history of the country. They get things that they prioritize, or they strike.

[Strato Guy]

 

The Twins ****ed with his service time. Full stop. He was hitting well in AAA and then they claimed he was playing hurt, which, if true, means the entire front office should've been fired for making him play hurt. The ML roster had injuries to their OFers so Grossman was starting in the corners. They promoted Johnny Field, who was playing worse than Buxton in AAA, instead of Buxton. The Twins had every right to do what they did but it was still a dick move and we'll see if it poisoned the relationship in a few years.

I could not agree more. Buxton was actually playing well at the time. There was no good reason for him not to be called up based on his improvement. For this reason and the fact the team was short on healthy players, the Twin's decision not to call him up is inexcusable! It was a blunder that might well bite them in the ass in the future.

[adorduan]

 

I also completely disagree with this post. He had an excellent "2 1/2 months in" 2017 and then was injured and jerked around last year.  He's going about dealing with the way he was treated unfairly with maturity and reasonableness in my opinion. Even Falvey knows that, as you can see by how he's acknowledging Buxton deserves to blow off a little steam.  Buxton's not holding it against the fans or his teammates or the kids whose charity he attended. And he seems to want to excel as much as ever. I really think he's going to show a few people this year. 

FIFY

[markos]

To the crowd arguing that this situation is Buxton's own fault, what else could he have done at the end of the season to force a callup to the majors in September? He was dealing with injuries, and once he was finally healthy and playing everyday at for the last two weeks of AAA, he had a .996 OPS. He has had two full seasons where he has shown he belongs in the majors. And honestly, what can happen between now and April 1 that will prove to you that Buxton is ready for the majors next year? I think anyone who thinks that the Twins were in the right because of Buxton's 2018 performance also has to think that Buxton needs to start 2019 in AAA as well. 

 

I understand that there are a lot of varying opinions here, but I think that punishing a player financially for trying to play through injuries and coming back to quickly from injury is an extremely bad move. At this point, what motivation does Buxton ever have to play through a nagging injury or come back as quick as he can from injury if he knows that it will be held against him? I also think this is going to affect future contract negotiations. 

[amjgt]

 

Seems that some feel it's unethical or unfair. It's neither. There's a collective bargaining agreement...including provisions for filing grievances. For every instance of FO doing something like this to a player, there are just as many instances of a team bending over backwards to meet the player's every desire, only to see him walk without a second thought the instant he can for a $ more and/or a bigger market. It's a business.

 

 

I've seen almost nobody claim that. 

[gunnarthor]

 

FIFY

It's actually more accurate to say he had a bad 6 weeks or so in 2017. From 4/3-4/20 (15 games) and 6/15-6/30 (16 games), he was pretty bad. Between that though, he was pretty good.

 

4/21-6/14 (43 games) he hit .264/.340/.403.

From 7/1 on (66 games) he hit .309/.358/.538.

 

That actually makes sense. The beginning of the year was historically bad to the point that it was more about pressure he was putting on himself than anything else. Once he started taking the pressure off, he started to show his true talent and performed well for a couple months. Then the league adjusted to him and he struggled mightily again in June but made the adjustments and started hitting the ball again.

 

We saw that again last year, although injuries ****ed everything up. Once he started to get healthy and consistent playing time, his bat started to take off.

[Blackjack]

 

Good for Buxton. Now put up or shut up. Time's up. Tic toc.

 

I signed in just to give this a double like!!!!

[jkcarew]

 

I've seen almost nobody claim that. 

"He had an excellent 2017 and then was injured and jerked around last year.He's going about dealing with the way he was treated unfairly"...

 

That's one example. There are more.

 

It's not that I think feeling he was treated unfairly is an unreasonable way of looking at what happened in 2018. It's just not the way I look at it. If anything, I think denying Buxton the at-bats at the end of the year was probably a good business decision, yet a bad baseball move...might want to give your 2019 starting center-fielder some MLB at-bats to build some confidence heading into the off-season.

 

And while I get Buxton being at least a little upset about it, I don't think it's unfair or something that should, or will, impact the business relationship in the future.

[Mr. Brooks]

I read it more that he was upset about being misled, and them lying about the reason (injury), than the lack of a call up itself (though I'm sure he wasn't pleased with that either). So, I'm not sure it's relevant to debate the merits of a call up or lack thereof.

[Don Walcott]

 

I've seen almost nobody claim that. 

I've said that this conduct is unethical (in other threads with this identical topic), because it is. If a player deserves a spot on a roster, as Buxton did, depriving him of that spot for financial reasons is unethical. It's simply wrong, and I'd prefer if my favorite team didn't do things like that to players or anyone else for that matter.

 

For example, if I found out the Twins screwed over a beer vendor, using a technicality in a contract and their position of power in that contractual relationship, I'd be unhappy with the Twins. And I would expect other people who do business with the Twins to be wary of their reputation for screwing people over. And I'd expect this would have a negative effect on the Twins' ability to do business.

 

Of course I'd continue to root for the team while being disappointed in management. It was a test of everyone's patience to wait out the Calvin Griffith years while he refused to pay the best players to stay with the team. And the Pohlads took over and immediately participated in collusion against the players for several years with all of the other owners. Baseball fans have survived a lot of despicable behavior from management of these teams historically, but we're still going to root for the team.

 

I do not want to continue this debate (so I won't after this), but I can't see how anyone thinks that the Twins organization has any moral ground to stand on vis-a-vis Buxton.

 

Nothing new to this debate, just re-hashing the debates we had in July and August.

[howieramone2]

 

Depends on how this plays out.  If there is no chance he stays here, the Twins have really messed things up if he ever figures things out (read Aaron Hicks) only Buxton has a chance to be much better.  Hope the Twins get a line on this in the offseason, because it can become an issue soon.

You do know Hicks was a lost cause until he was almost 28.

[Battle ur tail off]

I don't have a problem with what they did to Buxton. He didn't really deserve a callup. I'm guessing he was feasting on fastballs in AAA for any production he had his last few weeks. His main problem is he is always guessing on breaking pitches and swinging at bad ones.

 

My deal is why did they recall Sano and not Buxton? Sano didn't look like he was much of a different player when he came back either. Still swinging at bad breaking pitches, etc. also.

 

To me this was kind of a double standard. Either call them both back up, or neither. 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't have a problem with what they did to Buxton. He didn't really deserve a callup. I'm guessing he was feasting on fastballs in AAA for any production he had his last few weeks. His main problem is he is always guessing on breaking pitches and swinging at bad ones.

 

So was it impossible for him to earn a callup? Unless you expected him to teach opposing AAA pitchers to throw better breaking balls, what was he supposed to do other than feast on their fastballs?

 

Also, as bad as he looked at the plate in MLB in 2018, keep in mind it was only 94 PA (and half that was playing through a toe injury). How much do you want to punish a guy for performance reasons based on that tiny sample? I could possibly see benching a guy or sending him to the minors after 94 really bad PA -- clear his head, correct bad habits -- but the Twins went further than that in September: they sent him home. No working on things in the minors, no sitting on the bench and working with coaches and teammates, just sent him home.

[Major League Ready]

 

I don't have a problem with what they did to Buxton. He didn't really deserve a callup. I'm guessing he was feasting on fastballs in AAA for any production he had his last few weeks. His main problem is he is always guessing on breaking pitches and swinging at bad ones.

 

My deal is why did they recall Sano and not Buxton? Sano didn't look like he was much of a different player when he came back either. Still swinging at bad breaking pitches, etc. also.

 

To me this was kind of a double standard. Either call them both back up, or neither. 

 

Good point. I don't think Sano had earned his place either. Should Buxton be pi$$#@ at the Twins?

 

Buxton
Career OPS  672
Career wRC+ 76

 

Adrianza
Career OPS 658
Career wRC+ 78

 

MLB is not like a normal job but you can't help but compare the scenarios to a "real world" job. However, if any of us got a $6M bonus and then performed to this level, how do you think we would be received if we complained about how we were treated?

[TheLeviathan]

Can we stop referring to 14 games in AAA like the dude was chasing down Mike Trout?  We've seen brief windows of brilliance before, this move (IMO) was done to permanently change his approach to being a big leaguer.

 

So far, mission accomplished.  Now we can only hope he actually takes off so we don't have to play "put the lipstick on the pig" about 14 minor league games.

[gunnarthor]

 

Good point. I don't think Sano had earned his place either. Should Buxton be pi$$#@ at the Twins?

 

Buxton
Career OPS  672
Career wRC+ 76

 

Adrianza
Career OPS 658
Career wRC+ 78

 

MLB is not like a normal job but you can't help but compare the scenarios to a "real world" job. However, if any of us got a $6M bonus and then performed to this level, how do you think we would be received if we complained about how we were treated?

You're right that it is not comparable so not really relevant. Buxton was paid 6m b/c of his draft status and that money should have no impact at all on how the Twins treated him last year.

[USAFChief]

I was already pretty sure the window for a cheap extension for Buxton had already passed.

 

Now I'm convinced.

[Platoon]

Which is funny because during Falvey's interview on 1500 ESPN he thinks of himself as a people manager first, analytical second.

But I recall players like Dozier and others say as they leave the organization say the duo is cold and metrics driven.

I would assume that "metrics driven" is probably what this orginisation will or has become. For years players have sensed that they were just a number. That is no longer true. They are now a spreadsheet of numbers. Will it get to the point where scouts seemingly become data entry peons? Or has it already. With the elimination of many forms of human input into MLB decision making, the Twins decision on Buxton was fairly simple, and will become in all likelihood more common. They took what they hope wil be a good "in prime" year. And, Buxton as is his right, is not happy he lost a year of that kind of money. Both parties are correct, while operating from a completely different viewpoint.

[gunnarthor]

The Cubs service time manipulation also soured Bryant on signing an extension with them. https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2018/11/12/18080064/cubs-kris-bryant-trade-rumor-options-explainer

 

 

[Battle ur tail off]

 

So was it impossible for him to earn a callup? Unless you expected him to teach opposing AAA pitchers to throw better breaking balls, what was he supposed to do other than feast on their fastballs?

Also, as bad as he looked at the plate in MLB in 2018, keep in mind it was only 94 PA (and half that was playing through a toe injury). How much do you want to punish a guy for performance reasons based on that tiny sample? I could possibly see benching a guy or sending him to the minors after 94 really bad PA -- clear his head, correct bad habits -- but the Twins went further than that in September: they sent him home. No working on things in the minors, no sitting on the bench and working with coaches and teammates, just sent him home.

 

I would make sure he can recognize pitches and control his at bats. Don't care about what the stats say. If he is still flailing away at garbage and AAA pitchers aren't able to command and mess up down the middle, I don't care if he rakes there. 

 

Numbers don't mean a thing in AAA if you get back up to the show and MLB pitchers expose your weakness every game. He and Sano need to have better pitch recognition and not get themselves out before they are ready to do anything. So far, both guess and flail. Easy outs for a pitcher that has seen a scouting report. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

To the crowd arguing that this situation is Buxton's own fault, what else could he have done at the end of the season to force a callup to the majors in September? He was dealing with injuries, and once he was finally healthy and playing everyday at for the last two weeks of AAA, he had a .996 OPS. He has had two full seasons where he has shown he belongs in the majors. And honestly, what can happen between now and April 1 that will prove to you that Buxton is ready for the majors next year? I think anyone who thinks that the Twins were in the right because of Buxton's 2018 performance also has to think that Buxton needs to start 2019 in AAA as well. 

 

I understand that there are a lot of varying opinions here, but I think that punishing a player financially for trying to play through injuries and coming back to quickly from injury is an extremely bad move. At this point, what motivation does Buxton ever have to play through a nagging injury or come back as quick as he can from injury if he knows that it will be held against him? I also think this is going to affect future contract negotiations. 

 

That's just it. He got for 2 weeks in the minors. He was pretty pedestrian in AAA prior to that.

[Dman]

If Buxton is going to be as great as everyone thinks he is, he was never going to sign an extension with the Twins anyway.  If he puts it together Boston, New York or LA will out bid us.  Once his contract was up he is as good gone with or without the service time move. 

 

If he doesn't turn out to be that great shouldn't it be easy enough for us to replace him? 

 

It might be a sucky move but the Twins did the right thing for the Twins. Buxton can have his revenge if he turns himself into a generational player and gets a great contract after his time with the Twins.

[bobs]

I don't blame him for being pissed.  I also don't blame the FO for making a business decision to not call him up.....and let's be honest, this is strictly about service time.  Let's hope he sets out to show the FO he was worthy rather than pout and continue on the bust path that he's on.