Article: Twins Claim 1B CJ Cron

[Squirrel]

 

Exactly... I’m ok with the signing. I want assets acquired. I want improvements regardless of the increment. My concern at the moment is Austin. If this causes Austin to be cut. I may have an issue.

If signing Cron makes them think we don’t have room for further upgrades then I will have an issue.

Ultimately... I want upgrades and assets acquired and will wait to see the finished product.

But this is my issue ... is this even an improvement, even if incrementally small? I think it's debatable and no way to know. I also don't think an incrementally small improvement is the improvement the Twins need. An incremental improvement, imo, is not an improvement in the Twins' case. In this game increments might make the difference between top teams edging out the other, but a small incremental improvement does not make the difference for the Twins getting to the top. Even if it might nudge the needle, it's not enough. We don't need a needle nudger, we need needle pushers.

[MN_ExPat]

 

We Unix computer geeks will call it a Cron Job and get nothing but crickets and weird stares for our effort.

OMG... Sigh.   I just snorted when I read that.

[Mike Sixel]

Cron out performed every single one of these guys last year... and it wasn't close.

And he's controlled for two years, can only play one position, and costs more. They need multiple RP, a really good SP, a backup 3B, and a SS or 2b, and probably an OF. This just doesn't do much given all their options. Also, I no longer believe they believe in Rooker. Certainly not for this year.

[TheLeviathan]

This is reminiscent of Park and not in a good way.

[bird]

 

Yes that's another thing I don't understand about this pick-up. Although Rooker does have a tiny bit more flexibility to play the outfield* 

 

*not sure how good he actually is at either position

 

Rooker should not enter into the calculus regarding any moves for 2019. As the 35th selection, his statistical odds of becoming a factor in MLB are way less than 50%, and he lasted until the 35th selection for a reason, probably related to risks about his contact skills. I think banking on Rooker to make it as a productive big-leaguer is ill-advised. If he does, it'll be a pleasant, mild surprise. We'll pretty much know his eventual fate by the end of 2019 though. 

 

Trading Austin or Cron to make room for a better player would be great. Important even.

Edited November 27, 2018 by birdwatcher

[Doomtints]

 

This is reminiscent of Park and not in a good way.

 

Park made his mark by teeing off on 85-87 mph fastballs. He was never going to make it in the US.

 

I'm betting a at least a couple of Cron's home runs (and hits) were on pitches that were coming at him just a wee bit faster.

[Kelly Vance]

When you can add 30 HRs and 74 RBIs off the wire, you do it.  That is a no brainer. People get injured and we need a dependable DH.  I'm all for this signing. And so what if we have a RH hitting lineup?  Cron hits RH pitchers better than Austin (who I kind of like) so it is not a bad move to platoon them. 

 

There is a rumor Seattle is shopping Robinson Cano.  He could hit 40+  HRs at Target.  

That keeps Polanco at ss, which is ok. It adds more power and takes care of the middle infield problem. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Kelly Vance

[Kelly Vance]

 

You can cut Grossman irrespective of adding Cron.  So that really doesn't fly.

 

5M against next year's budget is not a marginal cost in adding a bullpen player.  It could be as much as 40-50% of what your offer is per year.  Ditto for many of the MIF guys we might consider.

5 mil for 30 HRs and 74 RBIs is not an overpay. Replacing Grossman with that makes all the sense in the world, unless you really like walks. And its not like we can't fix the BP.  Its not an either or situation. 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Kelly Vance

[Kelly Vance]

 

Depends.....if I think I can spend the money better on adding RP and SP, I probably roll the dice and play Austin, Kepler, Sano, Astudillo, Garver at 1B/DH when they aren't playing other positions.......it isn't as easy as choosing between those players, you also have to consider that there are only 25 roster spots, some players have options, and there are budget constraints.

 

Would you rather have Eovaldi or Corbin, or the next best pitcher that you can get for $5MM less than one of those two?

Yeah, well, its not an either or situation.  There is plenty of money left for two BP arms and a starter. And what if Austin gets hurt?  We got nothing at 1b. Kepler? Well that weakens OF defense to move him to 1b. This is a great insurance policy and fills the 1b/DH spot. Check it off your list in pencil while we look around some more. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Kelly Vance

[Mike Sixel]

Sano, Kepler, Garver, Astudillo, Austin. That seems like enough first base options to me. Add a legit OF who can also DH. Rooker is in AAA as a backup option.

 

They now have 39 players on the forty man.

[Kelly Vance]

 

Dumpster diving 101 again.  You can sugar coat it however you want but they get a player that an average to below average team doesn't want. How pathetic after getting rid of so much salary.

30 HRs and 74 RBIs is not pathetic. It would lead the Twins last year or close to it. 

[Kelly Vance]

 

And he's controlled for two years, can only play one position, and costs more. They need multiple RP, a really good SP, a backup 3B, and a SS or 2b, and probably an OF. This just doesn't do much given all their options. Also, I no longer believe they believe in Rooker. Certainly not for this year.

I think that is an exaggeration.   We have a decent ss and 3b, and a back up for each in Ehire. Its not a urgent problem. We do need a 2b. This doesn't prevent us signing one of those. We have a stellar defensive OF, plus Cave. We don't need more OFers. This move does not prevent us signing two BP arms and a starter. And if you don't pick up a 30 HR/74 RBI guy on the wire you should be fired. 

[Kelly Vance]

 

This is reminiscent of Park and not in a good way.

No its not.

 

Park had never hit in the majors. He had a language barrier.  Cron has hit 30 HRs and 74 RBIs. That is not chicken feed.  He is in his prime and seems to be getting better with the opportunity. 

 

I think we were planning something different but when something like this falls in your lap you pick him up. 

 

Like Yogi said, "When you get to a fork in the road, take it."

Edited November 27, 2018 by Kelly Vance

[Vanimal46]

Wait.... How many HRs and RBI did Cron have last year? I have a hard time finding that out on this page.

[gunnarthor]

 

Wait.... How many HRs and RBI did Cron have last year? I have a hard time finding that out on this page.

More than our last first baseman. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Park made his mark by teeing off on 85-87 mph fastballs. He was never going to make it in the US.

 

I'm betting a at least a couple of Cron's home runs (and hits) were on pitches that were coming at him just a wee bit faster.

 

I wasn't referring to talent, only about ill-advised roster construction.

Edited November 27, 2018 by TheLeviathan

[cmoss84]

 

This is reminiscent of Park and not in a good way.

Not sure how...how are you connecting the two?

 

just saw your last post. nevermind. 

 

1 year and 5 million seems like a good gamble. You guys are acting like it's a crippling move. It literally does not effect any other FA signing we make.

Edited November 27, 2018 by cmoss84

[Vanimal46]

Not sure how...how are you connecting the two?

 

just saw your last post. nevermind.

 

1 year and 5 million seems like a good gamble. You guys are acting like it's a crippling move. It literally does not effect any other FA signing we make.

It does effect any other FA signing they make. $5 million of the offseason budget is tied to this player. It's not guaranteed, but you best believe it's being counted right now in the payroll.

 

Instead of signing Andrew Miller for $12 million, they may resort to another reliever for $7 million because the other $5 million is tied to Cron. There is a ripple effect with every acquisition.

[DocBauer]

Great thinking. Add a McCutchen or Brantley and all of a sudden we have a decent lineup once we get a 2B or SS to round out the infield. Lineup:

 

SS/2B FA/trade - DJ Mattheiu/Starlin Castro

LF Rosario

SS/2B Polanco

LF/RF/DH McCutchen (my preference, Brantley would also be fine)

3B Sano

RF/DH Cave (or Kepler)

1B/DH Cron/Kepler/Cave

C Garver/Castro

CF Buxton

Bench - one of Kepler/Cave/Cron every day as a bench bat, Castro, Adrianza and Austn, Austdiillo or 8th BP pitcher.

Gone - Grossman.

AAA- Austin and/or Austidillo

 

Looks improved and also gives us flexibility if Buxton underperforms (again) because Cave can play a decent CF.

 

Spend the rest of the money on pitching, pitching and more pitching. Relief, starters, whatever we can get that's an upgrade. Corbin, Kelvin Herrera, Familia, Robertson, Britton, Sipp, Soria, Ottavio, Joe Kelly, Dallas Kuechel and Sonny Gray all on the radar. Get at least 2 and shoot for 3.

100% this!

 

Adding Cron does not mean you can't continue to add and improve the roster/lineup and depth/options. Is Cron a needle mover? I'd say yes, slightly at least. And every nudge forward is a good one. We still have money to spend, there are tons of options on the market, and we still have all our prospects at this time for trades. (Whether now or later).

[bird]

 

But this is my issue ... is this even an improvement, even if incrementally small? I think it's debatable and no way to know. I also don't think an incrementally small improvement is the improvement the Twins need. An incremental improvement, imo, is not an improvement in the Twins' case. In this game increments might make the difference between top teams edging out the other, but a small incremental improvement does not make the difference for the Twins getting to the top. Even if it might nudge the needle, it's not enough. We don't need a needle nudger, we need needle pushers.

 

 

I guess I'd suggest that this would be a problem if the wonder boys adopted a Ryanesque "buy and hold" attitude. I see signs that they have an opportunistic, traderly penchant. My gut tells me this FO won't get terribly attached to either Austin or Cron if a better option surfaces. If that's the case, small incremental upgrades aren't just feasible, but a positive part of the plan.

Edited November 27, 2018 by birdwatcher

[cmoss84]

 

It does effect any other FA signing they make. $5 million of the offseason budget is tied to this player. It's not guaranteed, but you best believe it's being counted right now in the payroll.

Instead of signing Andrew Miller for $12 million, they may resort to another reliever for $7 million because the other $5 million is tied to Cron. There is a ripple effect with every acquisition.

Okay then you have to take into consideration that we might have saved money by signing Cron as well...instead of Santana/Cruz/whoever else.

 

Austin's splits against lefties are NO WHERE NEAR Cron's! (nor is Austin a proven MLB player)

Kepler is a mystery replacement at 1B.

Sano is a mystery replacement at 1B.

Astudillo over Cron? You want a 5' 9" (or shorter) 1B? Love the guy but do not want him playing over there. 

 

Also, if $5 million makes or breaks a "big" signing, that means it was never going to happen any way. If they want Miller at 12...if Miller is willing to sign with us for 12, this $5 million will not cause it not to happen. I just can't see them saying, "if we didn't sign Cron for 5, we would be willing to sign Miller for 12." Just do not see it. Obviously none of us know for sure. But this seems highly unlikely to me. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by cmoss84

[Major League Ready]

 

More than our last first baseman. 

 

Actually, if he can uptick just a touch next year and hit 4 more HRs than last year, he will equal our previous 1B HR total for the last 4 years combined. 

 

The same people complaining about the value proposition or budget allocation of $5M for Cron support spending $14-15M projected for Cruz. If it's value or available payroll, Cron offers .5 less war for $9M less not to mention he is not 38 and likely to decline. Why can't he be a better value alternative to Cruz that allows for other acquisitions instead of being a cost that prevents them?

Edited November 27, 2018 by Major League Ready

[Kelly Vance]

 

It does effect any other FA signing they make. $5 million of the offseason budget is tied to this player. It's not guaranteed, but you best believe it's being counted right now in the payroll.

Instead of signing Andrew Miller for $12 million, they may resort to another reliever for $7 million because the other $5 million is tied to Cron. There is a ripple effect with every acquisition.

Maybe, but I doubt it. Not for $5 mil. We are still paying Phil Hughes more than that. It is not much of a difference maker if at all for a 120 million roster. to become $ 125 mil.  The FO never said it was limiting acquisitions to keep a budget under, say, $ 120. 

 

The argument I would make against is that this guy is better than Austin. But he is not ten times better. Still, he is a slugger we did not have Sunday.  I think this calls for competition between the two this spring and I am betting they both make the team and Robbie is gone. Fine with me

[scottz]

10 11 pages of this! Opinions are wonderful.

Edited November 27, 2018 by scottz

[Squirrel]

 

I guess I'd suggest that this would be a problem if the wonder boys adopted a Ryanesque "buy and hold" attitude. I see signs that they have an opportunistic, traderly penchant. My gut tells me this FO won't get terribly attached to either Austin or Cron if a better option surfaces. If that's the case, small incremental upgrades aren't just feasible, but a positive part of the plan.

That's a good take ... and I hope that's the case. It's difficult to move away from 'In the past ...'

[Mike Sixel]

 

Actually, if he can uptick just a touch next year and hit 4 more HRs than last year, he will equal our previous 1B HR total for the last 4 years combined. 

 

The same people complaining about the value proposition or budget allocation of $5M for Cron support spending $14-15M projected for Cruz. If it's value or available payroll, Cron offers .5 less war for $9M less not to mention he is not 38 and likely to decline. Why can't he be a better value alternative to Cruz that allows for other acquisitions instead of being a cost that prevents them?

 

It simply isn't true that "the same people complaining" wanted Cruz.....you know, like me, nicksaviking, and vanimal, for instance who wanted a rotation of guys currently on the roster. And, for the money to be spent on difference makers at SP and an OF that they could trust (and rotate into DH some).

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

But this is my issue ... is this even an improvement, even if incrementally small? I think it's debatable and no way to know. I also don't think an incrementally small improvement is the improvement the Twins need. An incremental improvement, imo, is not an improvement in the Twins' case. In this game increments might make the difference between top teams edging out the other, but a small incremental improvement does not make the difference for the Twins getting to the top. Even if it might nudge the needle, it's not enough. We don't need a needle nudger, we need needle pushers.

 

well, it certainly is an improvement over Mauer's production last year. And there's some potential upside to it yet too. The 2018 lineup was sorely lacking in .800 OPS guys and has a spot open where you really should have one. It doesn't solve the "flexibility" issue, but that can be solved in other ways. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

And he's controlled for two years, can only play one position, and costs more. They need multiple RP, a really good SP, a backup 3B, and a SS or 2b, and probably an OF. This just doesn't do much given all their options. Also, I no longer believe they believe in Rooker. Certainly not for this year.

 

This moves means they don't believe in Rooker for 2019. They shouldn't, I might add. Let Rooker earn his call up. If he's destroying AAA, he will get the call at some point.

 

I would argue this does quite a bit. They had a gaping hole at DH. Now they don't. You're right, they still need some IF/OF help and pitching (based on Pohlad's comments, I wouldn't hold out much hope for an SP). Offseason isn't over yet. I'm not a fan of Pohlad's comments, but I don't think this move hamstrings their budget. If anything, I suspect they would have had to spend more to fill that slot, which means they have money that can be put into those other things. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Actually, if he can uptick just a touch next year and hit 4 more HRs than last year, he will equal our previous 1B HR total for the last 4 years combined. 

 

 

Can I both like and hate this at the same time?

[USAFChief]

 

Actually, if he can uptick just a touch next year and hit 4 more HRs than last year, he will equal our previous 1B HR total for the last 4 years combined. 

 

The same people complaining about the value proposition or budget allocation of $5M for Cron support spending $14-15M projected for Cruz. If it's value or available payroll, Cron offers .5 less war for $9M less not to mention he is not 38 and likely to decline. Why can't he be a better value alternative to Cruz that allows for other acquisitions instead of being a cost that prevents them?

That's all well and good, if you believe WAR actually tells you anything.

 

If you believe Cruz, coming off three consecutive seasons of .900+ OPS prior to last years .850 is only a little better hitter than Cron, coming off three part time years of .700+ OPS's the three prior years. 

 

Or if you're trying to win the WAR/$ championship, rather than the WS.