Twins DFA Byungho Park

[drjim]

The bigger question is who failed in the signings of Park and Toshi. How can you improve your Asian-market scouting to actually egt players that will contribute.

 

That's where the questions lay. Heads should roll on the decision to make the signing in the first place.

At the very least the GM has got to go.

[drjim]

he might improve his contact rate as he adjusts, but yeah it's not like he's 25. He's pretty well established.

I would expect a better year too, but it's not going to be a dramatic difference.

 

If rosters were bigger and he could be a platoon partner a team could probably even squeeze out some value.

[spinowner]

 

I'll wager a beverage of choice the Twins have a 12 man staff for most* of the season.

*no more than 30 days with 13, not including after Sep 1

My beverage of choice would be a keg of Surly Overrated.

Actually, I'm not going to bet because I hope it turns out you are right even though I know it will turn out you are wrong.

[spinowner]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread is that Kepler is also an option at 1B. One more reason that it made sense for Park to be the one to go at this juncture.

[Mike Sixel]

 

While I agree a 12 man pitching staff gives the lineup a lot more flexibility, this team will not have a 12 man pitching staff most of the season.

 

One needs good pitchers to field a 12 man pitching staff. The Twins do not have good pitchers. They have a boatload of question marks and it's likely at least half the pitching staff sees significant turnover this season.

 

A team simply can't field a 12 man staff in this era when a "good night" is your starter pitching 6 IP with 4 ER allowed.

 

Going from memory, the last time anyone on the Twins staff pitched 200 innings was Phil Hughes in 2014 and that guy's shoulder fell off last season. That doesn't instill faith in the rotation.

 

Or you can use AAA as your bench more, and send RPs back and forth more.....one just has to try.

[ashbury]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread is that Kepler is also an option at 1B. One more reason that it made sense for Park to be the one to go at this juncture.

I suppose Byron Buxton would bring a certain brand of athleticism to 1B as well.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I actually think this is a shrewd move. If somebody claims him they have more money to spend elsewhere. If he clears they essentially get a 41st roster spot.

 

$3MM a year is stopping them from signing someone?

[Mike Sixel]

 

I suppose Byron Buxton would bring a certain brand of athleticism to 1B as well.

 

Except Kepler did play some 1B in the minors, IIRC, and some here have predicted he's basically going to turn into Morneau and be the 1B some day. IMO, that depends more if they find other OFers than on Kepler. 

[SheboyganBrats]

 

Except Kepler did play some 1B in the minors, IIRC, and some here have predicted he's basically going to turn into Morneau and be the 1B some day. IMO, that depends more if they find other OFers than on Kepler. 

And just to throw another name into the discussion, the Twins signed Ben Paulsen to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training.  He's played parts of the last three seasons with the Rockies.  He's a left handed power bat who just happens to play 1B and corner outfield.

 

While he may just be AAA roster filler, it's an interesting move for a team that considers itself oversupplied with 1B/DH types.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Or you can use AAA as your bench more, and send RPs back and forth more.....one just has to try.

That works if you have a decent rotation and only occasionally need another reliever after one of your starters goes three innings.

 

It doesn't work when you have starters going less than five innings multiple times a week, which will likely be a problem for the Twins this season.

 

When you demote a guy, you can't recall him for ten days. What happens if another starter has a three inning outing two days after you demoted the guy? What happens when your starters go less than five innings four times in six games?

 

It'd be damned near impossible to stash enough relievers on the 40 man to coordinate that kind of promotion/demotion madness.

 

Again, I'd love to see a 12 man staff through an entire season... But the Twins don't have the arms to do it. They need to establish their starting corps before we can reasonably expect them to run with 12 pitchers for most/all of a season.

 

As I mentioned earlier, only two pitchers on the Twins staff have pitched 200 innings in their career: Ervin Santana and Phil Hughes.

 

Santana hasn't done it since 2013.

 

Hughes hasn't done it since 2014.

 

If you're going to run with a 12 man staff, a significant portion of your rotation needs to cross the 200 inning threshold.

[Loosey]

The more I think about the transaction the more I am on board with it.  

 

1) As mentioned it is seeming unlikely he will be claimed

2) He is coming of wrist surgery and struggled last year

3) He is 30 years old

4) The Twins have other 1B and DH option and combos (Mauer, Vargas, Sano)

5) He probably will not be a good MLB hitter.

 

Here is my thinking for #5:

In 2015 Park led the KBO in Home runs with 53 and batted .343.  On the surface that seems like a guy you would want to take a chance on in the majors.  However, if you take a step back and look at other sluggers in the KBO you begin to see a clearer picture. 

 

Second to Park's 53 HR's in 2015 was Eric Thames who hit 47, who never could cut it in MLB, and is essentially the same age as Park.  However the deeper you get into their stats there are many signs that Thames (The player who was an average at best MLB player in 2 partial seasons) is probably better than Park.  

 

Counting Stats (2015):

Park: 53 HR, 161 K, 78 BB, 35 2B, 1 3B, 181 Hits, 622 PA

Thames: 47 HR, 91 K, 103 BB, 42 2B, 5 3B, 180 Hits, 595 PA

 

Percentage Stats (2015):

Park: .343 BA, 1.150 OPS, .436 OBP

Thames:  .381 BA, 1.288 OPS, .497 OBP

 

Their Power is pretty similar, which is what the Twins were looking for last year, however for 6 less HR's in 30 less plate appearances Thames stuck out 43% less than Park and walked 32% more.  That to me is telling of how their skillset will translate to the Majors. 

 

Now if Eric Thames was Korean born and had never had any MLB experience my guess is he would have been a guy who MLB teams tried to pry out of Korea for a shot at MLB success, but he was a known commodity.  

 

I know comparing two players in an international league is not the best way to determine success, but when you put them in a vacuum and look a few key stats of the two best players in the KBO it is telling.  Especially when one of them already stuggled in the MLB.

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

That works if you have a decent rotation and only occasionally need another reliever after one of your starters goes three innings.

 

It doesn't work when you have starters going less than five innings multiple times a week, which will likely be a problem for the Twins this season.

 

When you demote a guy, you can't recall him for ten days. What happens if another starter has a three inning outing two days after you demoted the guy? What happens when your starters go less than five innings four times in six games?

 

It'd be damned near impossible to stash enough relievers on the 40 man to coordinate that kind of promotion/demotion madness.

 

Again, I'd love to see a 12 man staff through an entire season... But the Twins don't have the arms to do it. They need to establish their starting corps before we can reasonably expect them to run with 12 pitchers for most/all of a season.

 

As I mentioned earlier, only two pitchers on the Twins staff have pitched 200 innings in their career: Ervin Santana and Phil Hughes.

 

Santana hasn't done it since 2013.

 

Hughes hasn't done it since 2014.

 

If you're going to run with a 12 man staff, a significant portion of your rotation needs to cross the 200 inning threshold.

 

Just let guys pitch more than 5 innings, if they suck. Once you give up 6 runs, what is another 2-3? I know, no one does that....and I am not totally serious....but I am mostly serious. Just leave Berrios out there, to recover, or to save the bullpen if he gives up 6 runs in 3 innings. 

 

I'm not sure I agree with a truism that you need guys to pitch 200 innings for a team not to blow thru all their RPs all the time.....15 pitchers did that in all of the majors last year. 15. Admittedly, 31 threw 190+, but that's still 1 per team...1. Does every other team blow thru their bullpen every year?

 

46 threw 180 or more innings, 1.5 per team, btw. So, why would one need a 200 inning pitcher for a bullpen not to be blown thru?

 

 

[ashbury]

Just let guys pitch more than 5 innings, if they suck. Once you give up 6 runs, what is another 2-3? I know, no one does that....and I am not totally serious....but I am mostly serious. Just leave Berrios out there, to recover, or to save the bullpen if he gives up 6 runs in 3 innings.

Nice in principle, but it's not the innings, it's the pitches. On a day the starting pitcher sucks, he's giving up hits on 3-1 counts, having to start over with the next batter. Yeah, let him approach 100 pitches, if the game's out of hand already and it saves the bullpen a little; but he might be at 90 by the end of 4 innings anyway, leaving a lot of work for the bullpen either way.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Nice in principle, but it's not the innings, it's the pitches. On a day the starting pitcher sucks, he's giving up hits on 3-1 counts, having to start over with the next batter. Yeah, let him approach 100 pitches, if the game's out of hand already and it saves the bullpen a little; but he might be at 90 by the end of 4 innings anyway, leaving a lot of work for the bullpen either way.

 

I recall times last year, IIRC, where guys were pulled after 50 or 60 pitches. And yes, pitches matter, agreed.

[Mike Sixel]

And, if you need a long reliever a lot, just have 2 that you send back and forth to AAA. Games they pitch in are likely to be losses anyway, it could literally be anyone from AAA that does that role if it is needed all the time....

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Just let guys pitch more than 5 innings, if they suck. Once you give up 6 runs, what is another 2-3? I know, no one does that....and I am not totally serious....but I am mostly serious. Just leave Berrios out there, to recover, or to save the bullpen if he gives up 6 runs in 3 innings. 

 

I'm not sure I agree with a truism that you need guys to pitch 200 innings for a team not to blow thru all their RPs all the time.....15 pitchers did that in all of the majors last year. 15. Admittedly, 31 threw 190+, but that's still 1 per team...1. Does every other team blow thru their bullpen every year?

 

46 threw 180 or more innings, 1.5 per team, btw. So, why would one need a 200 inning pitcher for a bullpen not to be blown thru?

You're right, 200 innings is overshooting the mark. Drop that number to 180 or so and the point is more valid.

 

For example, the Cubs. Last season they had four starters throw over 180 innings and one throw over 160.

 

The Twins leader in innings was Santana with 181. The next closest was Gibson with 147.

 

The team needs a lot more than that to run with a seven man bullpen for most of the season.

[d-mac]

 

Because having switch hitters in the lineup can screw up the opposition's bullpen rotation.

 

That'd be true if most switch hitters didn't have platoon splits, which most do. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Now if Eric Thames was Korean born and had never had any MLB experience my guess is he would have been a guy who MLB teams tried to pry out of Korea for a shot at MLB success, but he was a known commodity.  

Not sure if you're aware, but MLB teams did try to pry Eric Thames out of Korea this winter.  He signed for 3 years, $16 mil plus a 4th year player option at $7.5 mil with Milwaukee.

 

I generally agree though that Park is unlikely to be claimed.

[Halsey Hall]

FWIW Park showed up in camp today and took infield practice at 1st, and batting practice.

[Squirrel]

 

FWIW Park showed up in camp today and took infield practice at 1st, and batting practice.

Who all is there now? You should start a thread to give us all the 'low down' of what's going on in camp.

[nicksaviking]

 

Or you can use AAA as your bench more, and send RPs back and forth more.....one just has to try.

 

OK super bizarro take alert, but I'd think a 12 man staff could also work if you had at least one righty and one lefty who could play a passable corner OF. They wouldn't have to be good, just good enough to guard against the rare opposite field hit when the other pitcher is on the mound. You could rotate them from the mound to a corner sport depending which batter is up.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Or you can use AAA as your bench more, and send RPs back and forth more.....one just has to try.

agreed, but there's limitations, not least of which is that you're lucky to get 6 innings from your starter

[Willihammer]

 

OK super bizarro take alert, but I'd think a 12 man staff could also work if you had at least one righty and one lefty who could play a passable corner OF. They wouldn't have to be good, just good enough to guard against the rare opposite field hit when the other pitcher is on the mound. You could rotate them from the mound to a corner sport depending which batter is up.

Good idea but rules don't allow it:

 

 

Rule 5.10(d) Comment (Rule 3.03 Comment): A pitcher may
change to another position only once during the same inning;
e.g. the pitcher will not be allowed to assume a position other
than a pitcher more than once in the same inning.

 

[DocBauer]

With Park DFA'd--Now, they need to get a veteran bat.  There is one guy that I have been waiting for them to sign.  Daniel Descalso can play all of the IF positions and is an ok bat.  This would add another option at SS and can spell Sano and Dozier if needed.  He has also played a few games in the OF the last couple years so could slot in there if needed.  In looking at the possible available OF's to replace Grossman as the 4th OF, there are a few options that sound ok but not great. Angel Pagan is one option that makes sense but not sure he could play in CF though he did log 122 games there in 2015.  He was a 2.1 WAR guy last year and was a key piece to all of those SF Giants WS titles. I seem to remember him as a good RISP guy as well.  Coco Crisp and Micheal Bourn are not great but can still handle CF if needed too and can still swipe a bag or too.  All 3 are long in the tooth but have been around the block and could bring a Hunter like voice for the younger guys. 

 

I would rather have any of those 3 to replace Grossman as the 4th OF.  His D is the main issue and aside from a few hot month, was below replacement player last year all around.  Danny needs to go as he is not good anywhere on the diamond.

I like the way you are thinking here. Pagan is definately someone I'd be interested in, and it doesn't matter if he can play CF or not. Rosario is solid in CF and thus your 4th OF really only has to be a quality corner OF. Kepler also has some CF ability and experience.

[DocBauer]

Some follow up thoughts:

 

There is talent, REAL TALENT on the Twins 40 man roster. There are also some guys that can/should be replaced pretty easily. It's kind of a mixed bag, unfortunately. And via trade, waiver wire, and milb promotion, you will see several changes over the next few weeks, months, and season. And sooner or later, you have to start making these moves.

 

Park intrigues me still. But a disappointing season, coming off surgery, and 30, and I can easily see why the Twins did what they did. (Though I can't and won't debate there were other options). I hope he sticks around as we could still be surprised. I would have been far more upset if Vargas, younger and with potential, had been let go.

 

I actually get why DanSan is still around...for now. I believe he is on a short leash. I fully get why he is a lightening rod for discussion after the past two seasons. I never expected him to repeat his 2014 season, but I felt his overall skill set would allow for "progress" in some areas even as regression set in for other areas. As someone previously stated, we're he DFA'D by another team, he would be the kind of low investment, low risk type of athlete I'd take a flier on. ND I've stated before that if released, I'd love to see him passed over so the Twins could send him to AAA. (I hope this still happens). But with a new season and maturity and a new hitting coach, isn't he the type of intriguing athlete you'd like to take a chance on to see if something began to click?

 

Again, I think he's on a short leash and probably not on the roster much longer. But I can see wanting to at least take a look at an athletic young player for a few weeks before making that final determination.

[nicksaviking]

 

Good idea but rules don't allow it:

 

Stupid rules, who needs 'em.

[jimmer]

I think some fans look at the talent on this team in a bubble, meaning they dont compare it to the talent other teams have.

 

When one watches shows on mlb network like the top 10 right now (going by position) and we have only one player in it (and he sits in the bottom half of his postion and turns 30 this year) that is pretty telling.

[Taildragger8791]

 

I recall times last year, IIRC, where guys were pulled after 50 or 60 pitches. And yes, pitches matter, agreed.

 

Teams monitor strenuous innings as much as total pitches, especially with young pitchers. If a guy is throwing 30+ pitches per inning they're going to yank him sooner than later to protect him from himself. On top of it being more stressful on the arm, the guy may start overthrowing or losing his mechanics out of mental frustration, thus injuring himself in a game that was already out of hand.

[Taildragger8791]

When do we find out if Park made it through waivers? I thought the window to claim a guy was only a few days?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

The more I think about the transaction the more I am on board with it.  

 

1) As mentioned it is seeming unlikely he will be claimed

2) He is coming of wrist surgery and struggled last year

3) He is 30 years old

4) The Twins have other 1B and DH option and combos (Mauer, Vargas, Sano)

5) He probably will not be a good MLB hitter.

 

Here is my thinking for #5:

In 2015 Park led the KBO in Home runs with 53 and batted .343.  On the surface that seems like a guy you would want to take a chance on in the majors.  However, if you take a step back and look at other sluggers in the KBO you begin to see a clearer picture. 

 

Second to Park's 53 HR's in 2015 was Eric Thames who hit 47, who never could cut it in MLB, and is essentially the same age as Park.  However the deeper you get into their stats there are many signs that Thames (The player who was an average at best MLB player in 2 partial seasons) is probably better than Park.  

 

Counting Stats (2015):

Park: 53 HR, 161 K, 78 BB, 35 2B, 1 3B, 181 Hits, 622 PA

Thames: 47 HR, 91 K, 103 BB, 42 2B, 5 3B, 180 Hits, 595 PA

 

Percentage Stats (2015):

Park: .343 BA, 1.150 OPS, .436 OBP

Thames:  .381 BA, 1.288 OPS, .497 OBP

 

Their Power is pretty similar, which is what the Twins were looking for last year, however for 6 less HR's in 30 less plate appearances Thames stuck out 43% less than Park and walked 32% more.  That to me is telling of how their skillset will translate to the Majors. 

 

Now if Eric Thames was Korean born and had never had any MLB experience my guess is he would have been a guy who MLB teams tried to pry out of Korea for a shot at MLB success, but he was a known commodity.  

 

I know comparing two players in an international league is not the best way to determine success, but when you put them in a vacuum and look a few key stats of the two best players in the KBO it is telling.  Especially when one of them already stuggled in the MLB.

 

I'm not sure it's a 1 for 1 idea.  Didn't Pittsburg sign some guy from the KBO who came over to the majors and has been a decent ball player?