Twins DFA Byungho Park

[USAFChief]

 

If you are keeping Plouffe then Mauer and Sano become first and DH by default. In which case why do you need 3 or 4 fallbacks to first base and/or DH?

Sano didn't play 1st base for even an inning. He played RF and 3b. I really don't have any idea what you're talking about here.

 

For 2017, it's one fallback at DH/1B, not 3 or 4. Sano isn't going to play 1st base, he might DH some, although to me it makes the most sense to keep him at 3rd base every day. I could live with a day or two at DH for rest, but he needs reps at 3rd, not DH. Plouffe isn't here. Keeping Mauer, Park, and Vargas gives you a rotation you can use to have the platoon advantage at 1st and DH every day, gives you injury backup which will inevitably happen to at least one of those three, and gives the manager a viable pinch hitting option on the bench every day.

 

I don't think any of Mauer/Park/Vargas are going to be assets playing every day, none of them will likely hit enough.  But a three way platoon at least gives you the chance of ending up minimizing their weaknesses and maximizing their strengths.  I also haven't given up on Park, he was a really, really good player in Korea and I think there's a great chance he'll end up a decent to good one here, although he might end up a lefty masher. 

 

 

[Doomtints]

"Danny Santana ... Danny Santana ... Danny Santana"

 

This is like Clinton and the emails. It's all some of you can talk about. Guys -- Santana started 69 games in 2015 and 62 in 2016. These are inconsequential numbers. Santana isn't the problem. Whether he goes or whether he stays will not make or break this team. 

 

Molitor vowed to keep Santana out of the OF but then kept marching him out there. Seems he was overruled. If you call can buy that Sano's offense suffered due to the horror of having to play the OF, you should be able to buy into the same thing for Santana.

 

I honestly have no opinion on whether or not Santana goes or stays. I think he is a competent middle infielder (and probably a good 3B too) who the Twins have jacked around a bit. I don't blame him for that.

[USAFChief]

"Danny Santana ... Danny Santana ... Danny Santana"

 

This is like Clinton and the emails. It's all some of you can talk about. Guys -- Santana started 69 games in 2015 and 62 in 2016. These are inconsequential numbers. Santana isn't the problem. Whether he goes or whether he stays will not make or break this team.

 

Molitor vowed to keep Santana out of the OF but then kept marching him out there. Seems he was overruled. If you call can buy that Sano's offense suffered due to the horror of having to play the OF, you should be able to buy into the same thing for Santana.

 

I honestly have no opinion on whether or not Santana goes or stays. I think he is a competent middle infielder (and probably a good 3B too) who the Twins have jacked around a bit. I don't blame him for that.

131 games started over two seasons is inconsequential?

 

That's 36 percent. A little over 1 in 3.

 

Not my idea of inconsequential. And while not "the" problem, a problem nonetheless.

 

I also doubt Molitor was overruled.

 

And not to pile on, but I can't agree on "competent middle infielder" either.

[KirbyDome89]

 

It really doesn't ignore that. There was no room for Park when he was signed. Vargas and Sano had already sat at the DH spot for considerable time. 3B and 1B were both manned.

 

The Twins had big holes in the OF and P but signed a guy where they had no room for him to play.

"and the subsequent moves they failed to make following it."

 

Kind of an important piece to leave out....

 

Vargas was a massive question mark (still is) and Sano was the heir to 3B (probably still is) so there was room. They had holes everywhere, I'm not going to knock them for attempting to plug one. If you view the move in isolation and say its the reason there is a logjam then yes, you absolutely are ignoring what lead to the signing and the moves that followed. 

[Vanimal46]

131 games started over two seasons is inconsequential?

 

That's 36 percent. A little over 1 in 3.

 

Not my idea of inconsequential. And while not "the" problem, a problem nonetheless.

 

I also doubt Molitor was overruled.

 

And not to pile on, but I can't agree on "competent middle infielder" either.

Concur. It is a problem giving one of, if not the worst MLB player playing time 36% of the time.

[TheLeviathan]

All this Danny Santana talk just further goes to show how little "versatile" should matter if you just plain aren't very good at it.  (Or much of anything for that matter)

 

I wish we'd find someone actually good at the role he's supposedly filling.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I wish we'd find someone actually good at the role he's supposedly filling.

I agree, my only "defense" of Santana is that I understand why they didn't cut him two days ago.

 

That's as much praise as I can lay on the guy. I want him gone, I simply don't understand why people are upset Park got the boot before Santana. When you have what seems like a dozen first basemen and DH-type and one really bad utility guy, it makes sense to trim down the 1B/DH logjam before you get rid of the one really bad utility player.

 

Ultimately, you want them all gone but you clear out the redundancies before you get rid of the only guy you have in a designated role, even if he's really bad at that role.

[beckmt]

I feel that Twins will give Goodrum a shot and base what they do with Santana on the outcome of that spring training battle.

[USAFChief]

I agree, my only "defense" of Santana is that I understand why they didn't cut him two days ago.

 

That's as much praise as I can lay on the guy. I want him gone, I simply don't understand why people are upset Park got the boot before Santana. When you have what seems like a dozen first basemen and DH-type and one really bad utility guy, it makes sense to trim down the 1B/DH logjam before you get rid of the one really bad utility player.

 

Ultimately, you want them all gone but you clear out the redundancies before you get rid of the only guy you have in a designated role, even if he's really bad at that role.

The Twins, in 2017, have by my count three 1b/DH types, including Park, for two spots. And even if you count all three, aren't guaranteed to get decent production.

 

Why scuttle any of that before scuttling a guy you KNOW you want gone? You "clear out" a tandem that there is room for, and which might actually work out, in favor of something you're sure wont work, simply because there's only one of it?

 

That doesn't make sense to me.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Sano didn't play 1st base for even an inning. He played RF and 3b. I really don't have any idea what you're talking about here.

 

For 2017, it's one fallback at DH/1B, not 3 or 4. Sano isn't going to play 1st base, he might DH some, although to me it makes the most sense to keep him at 3rd base every day. I could live with a day or two at DH for rest, but he needs reps at 3rd, not DH. Plouffe isn't here. Keeping Mauer, Park, and Vargas gives you a rotation you can use to have the platoon advantage at 1st and DH every day, gives you injury backup which will inevitably happen to at least one of those three, and gives the manager a viable pinch hitting option on the bench every day.

 

I don't think any of Mauer/Park/Vargas are going to be assets playing every day, none of them will likely hit enough. But a three way platoon at least gives you the chance of ending up minimizing their weaknesses and maximizing their strengths. I also haven't given up on Park, he was a really, really good player in Korea and I think there's a great chance he'll end up a decent to good one here, although he might end up a lefty masher.

My point is, for a team that lost 58% of its games over the last 6 years you shouldn't get too attached to any of the marginal players. Further no team (esp one with this big of a deficit in pitching) can afford to use up so much of its 25 and 40 man roster on players who don't play up the middle at a very high defensive quality.

 

Too many hit only players hurt this team so badly over the last few years.

 

i hope Park stays in the Twins org and becomes something similar to his KBO self in the MLB, but I'm more confident in Vargas being a competent MLB player than Park.

 

Plouffe in 2016 plus Vargas and Park was the impetus to Sano in RF. While no longer the case, there was still a glut of DHs on the 40 man roster heading into 17

[beckmt]

mlbtraderumors is running a poll as to if someone should claim Park.  My guess is that they will and Twins will be exposed as frauds. Poll is running over  2-1 that he should be claimed. This may be the start of the fire Falvey thread.

[Eris]

 

"Danny Santana ... Danny Santana ... Danny Santana"

 

....

 

Molitor vowed to keep Santana out of the OF but then kept marching him out there. Seems he was overruled. If you call can buy that Sano's offense suffered due to the horror of having to play the OF, you should be able to buy into the same thing for Santana.

 

 

Molitor may have his faults but being forced to play Danny Santana in CF last year should not be pinned on Molitor.  The Twins plan in CF last spring rested on the "hope" that Byron Buxton was developed enough to contribute in CF last year.  When the Buxton option failed, the Twins had no major league caliber CF on the roster (or in AAA).  The failure to plan for this scenario should fall on the shoulder of Terry Ryan. 

[jimmer]

 

Molitor may have his faults but being forced to play Danny Santana in CF last year should not be pinned on Molitor.  The Twins plan in CF last spring rested on the "hope" that Byron Buxton was developed enough to contribute in CF last year.  When the Buxton option failed, the Twins had no major league caliber CF on the roster (or in AAA).  The failure to plan for this scenario should fall on the shoulder of Terry Ryan. 

Yeah, Molitor gets too much blame by some.  Ryan gave him a horribly assembled roster.

[nicksaviking]

mlbtraderumors is running a poll as to if someone should claim Park. My guess is that they will and Twins will be exposed as frauds. Poll is running over 2-1 that he should be claimed. This may be the start of the fire Falvey thread.

I don't understand how losing Park would make the Twins frauds.

[Seth Stohs]

 

mlbtraderumors is running a poll as to if someone should claim Park.  My guess is that they will and Twins will be exposed as frauds. Poll is running over  2-1 that he should be claimed. This may be the start of the fire Falvey thread.

 

Teams DFA and claim players all of the time. I don't think that a team is a fraud if  someone claims a player another team DFAs.

If that were the case, the Twins, Brewers and Orioles are all frauds for DFAing Adam Brett Walker. 

 

Also yesterday, a Rays beat reporter tweeted that he thinks they will claim him. 

 

I wouldn't have DFAd Park, but it's not the end of the world. 

[Guest]

mlbtraderumors is running a poll as to if someone should claim Park. My guess is that they will and Twins will be exposed as frauds. Poll is running over 2-1 that he should be claimed. This may be the start of the fire Falvey thread.

"Fire Falvey" for DFAing a bat-only guy who has a 90% chance to start the season in AAA recovering from wrist surgery and whose upside is Chris Carter?

 

Sorry, don't agree.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

"Fire Falvey" for DFAing a bat-only guy who has a 90% chance to start the season in AAA recovering from wrist surgery and whose upside is Chris Carter?

Sorry, don't agree.

I'm not crazy about picking up a DH on the free agency market but what would you rather have:

 

Park for $9m over three years or Carter for one year at $7m?

 

I kinda lean toward Carter, though I'm also okay with answering "none of the above".

[Guest]

I'm not crazy about picking up a DH on the free agency market but what would you rather have:

 

Park for $9m over three years or Carter for one year at $7m?

 

I kinda lean toward Carter, though I'm also okay with answering "none of the above".

Carter is more of a sure thing and could require less than $7M.

 

I suspect that "neither" will be the selected answer, because management wants to cut the K's.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The Twins, in 2017, have by my count three 1b/DH types, including Park, for two spots. And even if you count all three, aren't guaranteed to get decent production.

Why scuttle any of that before scuttling a guy you KNOW you want gone? You "clear out" a tandem that there is room for, and which might actually work out, in favor of something you're sure wont work, simply because there's only one of it?

That doesn't make sense to me.

I see your point but I suspect Sano will get his fair share of DH plate appearances as well. While I expect Miguel to start the majority of games at third, I'd be surprised if he gets more than 130 games at third as Escobar rotates in pretty regularly.

 

The more I think about this, the more I want to see Vargas get regular DH duties and occasionally rotating in Grossman based on pitching matchups.

 

If either one stumbles, hopefully Palka will be posting good numbers in Rochester and you roll with him for awhile (ultimately, I hope he takes fourth outfielder duty from Grossman, whom I expect to regress in a bad way).

 

As for Santana, I wonder what the front office sees in him right now. I kinda understand why they haven't cut him but I probably would have set him loose by now. I don't see where he fits on this roster. With Dozier still on the team, he's a worse version of both Escobar and Grossman, who will spend most of their time on the bench.

 

Then again, with whom do you replace him? Guys who can play both the infield and outfield - even badly - are pretty rare.

 

Do you go with an infielder, a glove-first outfielder, or a bat? I'd probably go with a glove-first outfielder because Grossman is so terrible in the field and Escobar, if healthy, is a competent fielder.

[USAFChief]

I see your point but I suspect Sano will get his fair share of DH plate appearances as well. While I expect Miguel to start the majority of games at third, I'd be surprised if he gets more than 130 games at third as Escobar rotates in pretty regularly.

 

The more I think about this, the more I want to see Vargas get regular DH duties and occasionally rotating in Grossman based on pitching matchups.

 

If either one stumbles, hopefully Palka will be posting good numbers in Rochester and you roll with him for awhile (ultimately, I hope he takes fourth outfielder duty from Grossman, whom I expect to regress in a bad way).

 

As for Santana, I wonder what the front office sees in him right now. I kinda understand why they haven't cut him but I probably would have set him loose by now. I don't see where he fits on this roster. With Dozier still on the team, he's a worse version of both Escobar and Grossman, who will spend most of their time on the bench.

 

Then again, with whom do you replace him? Guys who can play both the infield and outfield - even badly - are pretty rare.

 

Do you go with an infielder, a glove-first outfielder, or a bat? I'd probably go with a glove-first outfielder because Grossman is so terrible in the field and Escobar, if healthy, is a competent fielder.

Fair enough. I'd roll with Escobar, a catcher, an outfielder not named Grossman, and Park. But I agree there are other ways to look at it.

 

And if they carry 13 pitchers, they can't have both Park and Vargas.

[beckmt]

 

I don't understand how losing Park would make the Twins frauds.

Also, anyone who starts a Fire Falvey thread before a single game is played wil be getting their thread deleted and assessed an undetermined but substantial amount of points, FYI.

My feeling is it will be very embarrassing to have Park have a decent to great season after this.  It could rank(unlikely but possible with David Ortiz as the worst move ever made).  We do not know the future, but how would it look to Pohlad if one of the first major moves the FO made was one that greatly backfired.  I would not have taken that chance. 

[beckmt]

It along with the Dozier fiasco, actually happen to agree with what happened, if it that was also to backfire, would you trust the new FO to do anything right.  If this happens it would make every GM in the league feel like they would have to win deals with the Twins.  That could almost stop any win-win deals from happening.

[beckmt]

My major point is if this was to pass,  would anyone have taken this risk.  I know you have to take risks, look how TR was widely panned for David Ortiz.

[GP830]

Some thoughts- right or wrong, I guess. 

 

--- I've seen a few non-Twins fans on message boards refer to Park as the next Ortiz. While this is such a tired refrain (and a sore one, to boot), I think teams tend to regret letting go of power before it has bloomed. That's really what happened with Papi-- granted, he's been surrounded by exceptional teams in Boston-- his ability to put the ball over the wall is his asset- same with Park. I could see this being a regrettable move in the end. 

 

--- I'm glad that roster space is being conserved for guys who need the at bats, ie- Vargas, Sano, etc. But if Park see's his potential blossom elsewhere, and I think it really could-- I think it's fair to say that this would potentially go down as one of the sorrier byproducts/casualties of the contract-that-shall-not-be-named.

 

--- By the day, I see less potential for the Twins to make a move for an FA slugger. Why cut cost, to add to cost. I think Park's potential is more intriguing then Carter's or Napoli's. If the point would be to have a tradeable asset at the deadline--A relatively small gamble on Park could potentially give us a significantly more valuable asset to move. 

 

Just a thought dump. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[drjim]

People do realize Park is 30 right? He's not going to suddenly bloom into a different type of player and he's not going to develop the ability to consistently catch up to a big league fastball. This is especially the case with the injury he is recovering from.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

People do realize Park is 30 right? He's not going to suddenly bloom into a different type of player and he's not going to develop the ability to consistently catch up to a big league fastball. This is especially the case with the injury he is recovering from.

he might improve his contact rate as he adjusts, but yeah it's not like he's 25. He's pretty well established.

[Rosterman]

The bigger question is who failed in the signings of Park and Toshi. How can you improve your Asian-market scouting to actually egt players that will contribute.

 

That's where the questions lay. Heads should roll on the decision to make the signing in the first place. Did the Twins get skunked by making an offer thinking they were going to be out-offered and ahd to eat crow, so to speak, in the end, which they tried NOT to do by low-balling the guy with a contract.

 

Did we have any business going after the guy in the first place?

 

At this point, I would rather have Plouffe at third and Sano as a fulltime DH, but the only way we could've signed Plouffe for under-market was to DFA him back in August, and who knows if he would've come back our way.

[drivlikejehu]

Park is like David Ortiz in the sense that Danny Santana is like Ty Cobb . . . I mean, both baseball players, both homo sapiens, the similarities are endless.

[Linus]

I actually think this is a shrewd move. If somebody claims him they have more money to spend elsewhere. If he clears they essentially get a 41st roster spot.

[Doomtints]

 

The bigger question is who failed in the signings of Park and Toshi. How can you improve your Asian-market scouting to actually egt players that will contribute.

 

It's way too early to call Park a failure. If this team had a shortage at 1B or DH this move would not be made.