Twins DFA Byungho Park

[DocBauer]

O...M...G. Really?

 

I've had to skim several posts because this has caught fire.

 

Reality check...please!

 

The odds of someone actually claiming Park are pretty remote. There has been an endless series of bitching ànd complaining that the team has a logjam of too many 1B/DH types. So the Twins remove a poor hitting MLB/international rookie coming off a poor and injury/surgery season from their roster and we are all going nuts. Really?

 

Doubtful to the extreme he gets claimed. Which means the Twins keep him, rehab him, work with him, etc. (He has options)

 

Some complain about tight restrictions binding the new FO like the old FO, but this clearly indicates a change of option from ownershisp.

 

I mean..they had to make a move. Better or worse, they chose the poor and injured Park to remove from the roster, with optionns rather than the younger and athletic DSan. What exactly got screwed up?

[darin617]

Tampa might be willing to make a claim if not a deal so they can get him for a PTBNL. Maybe the Twins eat some of the money and get a lottery ticket type player in return.

[darin617]

Maybe the Twins blow us away and make Sano the DH right now and slide Polanco to 3rd since Dozier is staying put.

[beckmt]

Flexibility seems to be the new buzzword for MLB teams.  My guess is with both TB and KC just having signed 1B/DH types this was a calculated risk.  Do not see him being claimed and the new FO probably had other options they thought were more likely to be claimed.  This is not a AAAA type of money person who someone will take a flyer on to stash in AAA as depth.  Do not expect either Tonkin or DSan to be on this club in April, but just think this was a calculated risk and should be treated as such.

[Platoon]

So if Park is claimed and we sign Napoli....what then?

We dig out all our old Ryan quotes??

[Platoon]

I really hope they don't attempt to turn Polanco into a third baseman. While you can get by with less arm overall at third, his still won't play there on stuff down the line. I also like to see more power out of that spot. Plus this year should be devoted to seeing if Sano can be a serviceable third baseman. Another year of aimlessly wandering around in the desert style lineups and I am going back to the SW corner of my moms basement!

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

O...M...G. Really?

...

The odds of someone actually claiming Park are pretty remote. There has been an endless series of bitching ànd complaining that the team has a logjam of too many 1B/DH types. So the Twins remove a poor hitting MLB/international rookie coming off a poor and injury/surgery season from their roster and we are all going nuts. Really?

Doubtful to the extreme he gets claimed. Which means the Twins keep him, rehab him, work with him, etc. (He has options)
...

 

As usual, I appreciate how your points are well stated. On the other hand...

 

Obviously many are not as certain that Park won't get claimed. Some of the folks at FanGraphs seem to believe he would be a good pickup.

 

And I'm not really sure I've read much about a logjam at 1B/DH. No one expects Mauer to play every day and Vargas is an excellent choice to share time with Mauer as his numbers against LHP have begun to fall. To say nothing of injury.

Grossman as a DH against LHP? Maybe, but both Kepler and Rosario have rather poor splits against LHP, so you'd think Robbie would play the OF in those cases (*shudder*).

 

The truly frustrating part, I believe, is this: there is just no way one can look at any of the stats and say DanSan has a higher upside. This was along the lines of a Terry Ryan move where you keep the 'higher floor'. It both protects you from very worst outcome and, to a large extent, the very best outcomes.

[Boom Boom]

I like this move.

 

I had seen enough of Park in South Korea before the Twins ever signed him to know that his one skill wouldn't carry over to MLB.

[diehardtwinsfan]

My issue has more to do with the idea that I think Park could still have value... and DSan or Boshers on the other hand do not.  The DFA helps with a log jam on the 25 man roster. That's good I suppose.  I'm not convinced at this point that Park was worst of Mauer/Vargas/Park, and I think there's a reasonable chance that when he comes back from injury, he could be best of the 3 going forward.  Now I have no idea what the FO knows about Park. If they've concluded that I'm off my rocker here, then yes, cut bait. They still owe him his money, but no longer owe him a roster spot. If this is simply a gamble so that they can keep the likes of DSan or Boshers on the roster another season... well I don't get it.

[jorgenswest]

Would you trade Park for Belisle?

 

You get one year of a veteran reliever that has been successful in the NL when healthy in low leverage situations. He is 36 and had two stints on the disabled list in 2016. He missed more time in 2015.

 

You lose a batter with the upside of very good power but the likelihood of not making enough contact.

 

If I am a team trying to squeeze out an extra win in 2017 towards 90 wins, I want the reliever. If I am building towards 2018 and 2019, I want the hitter.

 

The Twins may keep both. It is critical that our management read the market correctly and no one will pay Park's remaining contract to have a shot at his ceiling.

[HitInAPinch]

 

So if Park is claimed and we sign Napoli....what then?

 

ridicule ?

[USAFChief]

As usual, I appreciate how your points are well stated. On the other hand...

 

Obviously many are not as certain that Park won't get claimed. Some of the folks at FanGraphs seem to believe he would be a good pickup.

 

And I'm not really sure I've read much about a logjam at 1B/DH. No one expects Mauer to play every day and Vargas is an excellent choice to share time with Mauer as his numbers against LHP have begun to fall. To say nothing of injury.

Grossman as a DH against LHP? Maybe, but both Kepler and Rosario have rather poor splits against LHP, so you'd think Robbie would play the OF in those cases (*shudder*).

 

The truly frustrating part, I believe, is this: there is just no way one can look at any of the stats and say DanSan has a higher upside. This was along the lines of a Terry Ryan move where you keep the 'higher floor'. It both protects you from very worst outcome and, to a large extent, the very best outcomes.

Fantastic post, sir. Bravo.

[Boom Boom]

I agree with those saying that D. Santana should be removed as well, but that seems like a different issue to me.

 

It won't change my opinion that Park also should have been removed.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

This is it for me. I just think there were others that were ahead of him on the dfa list. If at the end of ST you don't think it's going to work, then dfa him ... but now? It's weird timing, imo. Perhaps there is something going on we don't know. My 'worry' is they have done this to sign Morneau. I love Morneau, but ... or maybe they believe in Vargas that much? Or Palka? It's just a very surprising move. And I wish I knew more.

now makes sense vs. a few weeks from now in that it seems like there's a glut of better hitters still out there that would cost less in length of contract, so they can sneak Park through. If Park leaves, oh well.

 

My hope is Levine needed Parks 40 man spot in return of a multi player trade including a return of a relief pitcher and a SS or utility player to compete w/ DanSan.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Again, I think getting too upset about this is short-sighted unless you're really high on Park, which few of us seem to be.

 

There are still 2+ weeks before catchers and pitchers report and nearly a month until Spring Training starts in earnest.

 

If it ends up that Falvey swapped Park for Belisle while keeping Santana and another bullpen arm, that's probably a mistake.

 

But if it ends up that a middling arm is is off the roster for Melotakis or the Twins pick up another arm in free agency, that makes more sense. And/or it ends up that Santana is waived before April, that makes more sense.

 

Given the roster construction, I can see why they may want a few more weeks of evaluation on Santana. I don't really agree with the move but I kinda get it. Santana may have a place in a well-rounded team as a 24th or 25th man. Park needs to mash to deserve the vital 24/25 man space on an AL roster.

 

Vargas is an interesting piece in his last option year. Daniel Palka had 250 decent plate appearances (.779) in Rochester last season and 350 very good plate appearances (.894) in Chattanooga.

 

I don't see why we care that much about Byung-Ho Park. I don't know if I would have released him but I suspect this is going to look a lot like the Joe Benson, Aaron Hicks, and Oswaldo Arcia moves from past years. Fans get upset about a move, absolutely nothing comes of it.

 

And if Park isn't claimed or traded, it's a big win for the 40 man roster.

[Willihammer]

 

Obviously many are not as certain that Park won't get claimed. Some of the folks at FanGraphs seem to believe he would be a good pickup.

And I'm not really sure I've read much about a logjam at 1B/DH. No one expects Mauer to play every day and Vargas is an excellent choice to share time with Mauer as his numbers against LHP have begun to fall. To say nothing of injury.

Grossman as a DH against LHP? Maybe, but both Kepler and Rosario have rather poor splits against LHP, so you'd think Robbie would play the OF in those cases (*shudder*).

The truly frustrating part, I believe, is this: there is just no way one can look at any of the stats and say DanSan has a higher upside. This was along the lines of a Terry Ryan move where you keep the 'higher floor'. It both protects you from very worst outcome and, to a large extent, the very best outcomes.

Two of the teams mentioned in the Fangraphs article are the Rays and the A's- two teams who don't play in the same $8m/WAR model assumed on Fangraphs in every article about player "value." History suggests neither team is in the habbit of committing $9m on raffle tickets with "average player" upside (Cameron's words).

 

The other team mentioned, Texas, is Levine's old home. He knows their roster situation, and its been widely speculated they are going after Napoli. They are also higher up on the win curve and aren't really in a position to be making speculative bets on completely unproven talents.

 

This is smart asset managerment. Falvine are playing the market which has turned hard against RH DH types. The almost certain outcome of this is the Twins clear a roster spot and lose no one. Win-win.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Another thing to think about that may or may not be a factor:

 

The Twins have a new hitting coach in Rowson.

 

I'm sure he's been studying film of all the players and may be weighing in on each player. It's possible he sees something in Santana and nothing in Park.

 

As with all of the moves/non-moves that have happened this offseason, I'm giving the front office something of a pass and will base my opinion on results throughout the season.

[KirbyDome89]

I can't really add anything because my EXACT thoughts have already been touched on:

 

Why keep Dantana or any other fringe reliever? 

Why not use Vargas's 4th option year? 

Initially I wasn't opposed to the Belisle signing but if it means losing Park then what is the point?

If they sign a Napoli type and cut Vargas's PT my head might just explode....

 

To me this is eerily similar to the Arcia debacle. The process of how we got to potentially losing Park is much more frustrating than actually losing him. There are players on this 40 man with much less potential upside to help over the next 3 years, it makes 0 sense to cling to veteran/mediocre players coming into a season that even optimistic fans have labeled a 'trial run." 

[KirbyDome89]

 

So if Park is claimed and we sign Napoli....what then?

I think that move raises more questions than it answers.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Again, I think getting too upset about this is short-sighted unless you're really high on Park, which few of us seem to be.

 

There are still 2+ weeks before catchers and pitchers report and nearly a month until Spring Training starts in earnest.

 

If it ends up that Falvey swapped Park for Belisle while keeping Santana and another bullpen arm, that's probably a mistake.

 

But if it ends up that a middling arm is is off the roster for Melotakis or the Twins pick up another arm in free agency, that makes more sense. And/or it ends up that Santana is waived before April, that makes more sense.

 

Given the roster construction, I can see why they may want a few more weeks of evaluation on Santana. I don't really agree with the move but I kinda get it. Santana may have a place in a well-rounded team as a 24th or 25th man. Park needs to mash to deserve the vital 24/25 man space on an AL roster.

 

Vargas is an interesting piece in his last option year. Daniel Palka had 250 decent plate appearances (.779) in Rochester last season and 350 very good plate appearances (.894) in Chattanooga.

 

I don't see why we care that much about Byung-Ho Park. I don't know if I would have released him but I suspect this is going to look a lot like the Joe Benson, Aaron Hicks, and Oswaldo Arcia moves from past years. Fans get upset about a move, absolutely nothing comes of it.

 

And if Park isn't claimed or traded, it's a big win for the 40 man roster.

I like how you laid out scenarios in the post. I don't know if I would say I'm "high," on Park but I would like to see what he can do. I think that is what a lot of posters care about. He very well could be another Benson, Arcia, Hicks, ect... but given the number of players we know aren't MLB quality on this roster that could've been jettisoned rather than Park, the move is boggling. If he does clear waivers it is a win for the 40 man; I just see it as an unnecessary risk. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I like how you laid out scenarios in the post. I don't know if I would say I'm "high," on Park but I would like to see what he can do. I think that is what a lot of posters care about. He very well could be another Benson, Arcia, Hicks, ect... but given the number of players we know aren't MLB quality on this roster that could've been jettisoned rather than Park, the move is boggling. If he does clear waivers it is a win for the 40 man; I just see it as an unnecessary risk. 

It may be an unnecessary risk or it may be the first steps to building a more well-rounded roster that can win baseball games.

 

The Park signing was, at best, a questionable decision by the previous front office. The Twins already had Mauer, Plouffe, Vargas, Sano, and Arcia clogging up the roster. It was a poorly designed roster with little flexibility to field a competent defensive alignment through the season.

 

The Twins acquired Palka that offseason, who had a very nice season and will be knocking on the door in 2017. We'll say he replaces Plouffe in that bat-first logjam.

 

The Twins jettisoned Arcia but acquired Grossman, a more balanced hitter but equally atrocious fielder. A net wash defensively and probably offensively as well.

 

Meanwhile, Vargas had another middling season but acquired another option year for evaluation.

 

In essence, the Twins were headed toward 2017 with the exact same issues we criticized them for in January of 2016.

 

At some point, someone has to go. Teams can't field five guys between 3B, 1B, and DH. That leaves no space for actual roster flexibility in the outfield and infield.

 

So Park is gone (likely, anyway). Why are we upset about this?

 

I was fine with the Twins running with what they had, knowing full well their roster was as inflexible as it was last season, provided roster cuts happened fast and furious throughout the season. If Park or Vargas struggle, waive one or both of them no later than June. Call up Palka. If Sano can't hack third and Vargas is struggling, demote Kennys and shift Miguel to DH or a 1B platoon with Mauer. I was fine with "giving guys a chance" but I'm thoroughly sick and tired of seeing those "opportunities" span 2-3 years with 300 PAs per season. A guy either plays or he doesn't. Make a ****ing decision and stick with it.

 

This team was chock-full of plodding mashers who hit for an extremely low average (and most had, at best, questionable plate discipline as a cherry on top of that **** sundae). Teams don't win baseball games that way any more. I'm not going to get upset if Falvey looked at that group of players, picked one, and said "this guy needs to go".

 

And, no, I don't want to use Vargas' option year because I don't want to see this situation happen again in 2018. I don't know about the rest of you but I've had enough plodding no-glove DH types clogging the roster to last a lifetime.

[Guest]

As of February 1, 2017, management probably expects neither Park nor Santana to be on the roster as of April 1, 2018, and may even expect neither of them to be much value between now and July 1, 2017. What they do want right now is someone in the bullpen who can get outs during the first half of the season and someone who can play in the field occasionally. That makes Belisle more desirable than either Park or Santana in the short term and Santana more desirable than Park. If another team wants to relieve the Twins of Park's ongoing cost, all the better and good luck. Long term, which may even mean everything after the first half of 2017 and most likely the 2018 season, none of the three are likely to be on the team. All will be replaced by players now in the minors or in other systems.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I honestly think that Vargas, Park, and Mauer is good on the roster. You always have a decent bat off the bench in that scenario, which gives the manager flexibility. I suppose Park could really force things this year, and that he'll likely clear waivers, but I don't like taking that risk in favor of keeping guys like Boshers or DanSan..  Park is still very much an unknown quantity. If his struggles last season were due to injury, he suddenly has a lot of value as he's cheap, an above average defender at 1st, and can hit.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

As of February 1, 2017, management probably expects neither Park nor Santana to be on the roster as of April 1, 2018, and may even expect neither of them to be much value between now and July 1, 2017. What they do want right now is someone in the bullpen who can get outs during the first half of the season and someone who can play in the field occasionally. That makes Belisle more desirable than either Park or Santana in the short term and Santana more desirable than Park. If another team wants to relieve the Twins of Park's ongoing cost, all the better and good luck. Long term, which may even mean everything after the first half of 2017 and most likely the 2018 season, none of the three are likely to be on the team. All will be replaced by players now in the minors or in other systems.

My sentiments exactly.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I honestly think that Vargas, Park, and Mauer is good on the roster. You always have a decent bat off the bench in that scenario, which gives the manager flexibility. I suppose Park could really force things this year, and that he'll likely clear waivers, but I don't like taking that risk in favor of keeping guys like Boshers or DanSan..  Park is still very much an unknown quantity. If his struggles last season were due to injury, he suddenly has a lot of value as he's cheap, an above average defender at 1st, and can hit.

At that point, what do you do with Grossman?

 

I don't mind Grossman as an occasional fourth outfielder but I'm not in love with him as the fourth outfielder.

 

To me, it comes down to this:

 

The team can't field a rounded roster with Grossman, Park, Vargas, Sano, and Mauer on the roster. Remove Santana and the same problem exists so Santana isn't the problem here.

 

Mauer isn't going be waived.

 

Vargas, outside of Sano, has the most potential of the bunch and is the youngest. He's not going to be waived.

 

Sano is a beast but may not stick at third.

 

That leaves Grossman and Park. Park is a better defender but only at a position that literally everyone else can play. Grossman is younger and coming off an outlier season.

 

Waive one. Waive both. I don't care. Waive Santana. I don't care. Waive them all. I don't care.

 

What I don't want is all of them staying on the roster and Santana is the only guy out of the group who has a remote possibility of being a defensive asset somewhere that isn't first base.

 

And I still want to see Santana gone by April unless he's an absolute beast in Spring Training and has shown the coaching staff he's serious about playing the outfield and infield. At the very least, the guy has the ability to play those positions. The athleticism is absolutely there to do it.

[USAFChief]

I honestly think that Vargas, Park, and Mauer is good on the roster. You always have a decent bat off the bench in that scenario, which gives the manager flexibility. I suppose Park could really force things this year, and that he'll likely clear waivers, but I don't like taking that risk in favor of keeping guys like Boshers or DanSan..  Park is still very much an unknown quantity. If his struggles last season were due to injury, he suddenly has a lot of value as he's cheap, an above average defender at 1st, and can hit.

I, too, think you can have Park, Vargas, and Mauer on the 25 man, as long as you stick to a 12 man pitching staff. Those three give you, potentially, a decent DH/1b rotation.

 

What I don't think there is room for is Danny Santana. He gives you losses.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I, too, think you can have Park, Vargas, and Mauer on the 25 man, as long as you stick to a 12 man pitching staff.

While I agree a 12 man pitching staff gives the lineup a lot more flexibility, this team will not have a 12 man pitching staff most of the season.

 

One needs good pitchers to field a 12 man pitching staff. The Twins do not have good pitchers. They have a boatload of question marks and it's likely at least half the pitching staff sees significant turnover this season.

 

A team simply can't field a 12 man staff in this era when a "good night" is your starter pitching 6 IP with 4 ER allowed.

 

Going from memory, the last time anyone on the Twins staff pitched 200 innings was Phil Hughes in 2014 and that guy's shoulder fell off last season. That doesn't instill faith in the rotation.

[Willihammer]

 

Why keep Dantana or any other fringe reliever? 

Why not use Vargas's 4th option year? 

Initially I wasn't opposed to the Belisle signing but if it means losing Park then what is the point?

Fair questions, I'll give it a go

 

1. By my count, Santana is #3 on the infield depth chart. I wish they had better options but they don't. It might also be the case that Santana would more likely be claimed than Park, in which case DFA-ing Park is the less risky move.

 

2. See Brock's post above. 

 

3. In the off chance they actually lose Park, then either the FO misjudged the demand for RH power or they are content to trade Park for the $9m it would free up. Perhaps a bit of both.

[gil4]

 

Makes no sense. I feel like I am taking crazy pills. 

Aren't we all?  I thought that was in the site registration requirements.

[KirbyDome89]

 

It may be an unnecessary risk or it may be the first steps to building a more well-rounded roster that can win baseball games.

 

The Park signing was, at best, a questionable decision by the previous front office. The Twins already had Mauer, Plouffe, Vargas, Sano, and Arcia clogging up the roster. It was a poorly designed roster with little flexibility to field a competent defensive alignment through the season.

 

The Twins acquired Palka that offseason, who had a very nice season and will be knocking on the door in 2017. We'll say he replaces Plouffe in that bat-first logjam.

 

The Twins jettisoned Arcia but acquired Grossman, a more balanced hitter but equally atrocious fielder. A net wash defensively and probably offensively as well.

 

Meanwhile, Vargas had another middling season but acquired another option year for evaluation.

 

In essence, the Twins were headed toward 2017 with the exact same issues we criticized them for in January of 2016.

 

At some point, someone has to go. Teams can't field five guys between 3B, 1B, and DH. That leaves no space for actual roster flexibility in the outfield and infield.

 

So Park is gone (likely, anyway). Why are we upset about this?

 

I was fine with the Twins running with what they had, knowing full well their roster was as inflexible as it was last season, provided roster cuts happened fast and furious throughout the season. If Park or Vargas struggle, waive one or both of them no later than June. Call up Palka. If Sano can't hack third and Vargas is struggling, demote Kennys and shift Miguel to DH or a 1B platoon with Mauer. I was fine with "giving guys a chance" but I'm thoroughly sick and tired of seeing those "opportunities" span 2-3 years with 300 PAs per season. A guy either plays or he doesn't. Make a ****ing decision and stick with it.

 

This team was chock-full of plodding mashers who hit for an extremely low average (and most had, at best, questionable plate discipline as a cherry on top of that **** sundae). Teams don't win baseball games that way any more. I'm not going to get upset if Falvey looked at that group of players, picked one, and said "this guy needs to go".

 

And, no, I don't want to use Vargas' option year because I don't want to see this situation happen again in 2018. I don't know about the rest of you but I've had enough plodding no-glove DH types clogging the roster to last a lifetime.

Thats a lot to tackle.

 

In hindsight the signing is easier to criticize but at the time Vargas was coming off a poor season, Sano wasn't considered the defensive liability he is now (though not sure I'm ready to call him that at 3B yet,) Plouffe was supposed to be a "trade chip," and Arcia was basically the 4th "OFer,"/DH (in quotes b/c yeah the guy was a butcher). Given that I didn't really have a problem with the Twins signing a potential impact bat like Park to a cheap contract. If it didn't pan out then fine they move on and if it did then they no longer had to worry about the revolving door that has been that position. None of those guys was a sure bet to stick so throwing another name into the hat wasn't an issue for me.

 

I agree, they are facing the same issue that plagued them in 2016, but I don't think that is a reason to just send guys away when they have the potential to actually help this team down the line. Its still a terrible roster. They aren't going to be competitive this year. I'm not defending the defensive deficiencies of these guys but I would much rather they gain clarity on the situation by actually evaluating the play of Park and Vargas on the field rather than just pick one to boot and say "ok, situation solved." That is especially true when there are a number of players on the 40 man that have no business being there. It would be another thing if they were fighting for the last true spot on the roster. I'm not in favor of giving up potential talent on a team this bad in favor of having flexibility for another season of 90+ losses. 

 

People are upset because there are clearly other players on the 40 man to DFA or option. 

 

I would have much preferred they rolled with the rotation you mentioned above. If players showed they couldn't hack it then absolutely move on. The only player I can think who has had 2-3 years of opportunities is the one player the rest of us can't believe wasn't DFA'd. That is a major source of the frustration.