Royals 4, Twins 2: Rocco Baldelli's Ejection Doesn’t Inject Life Into Twins. What Can?

[DJL44]

53 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Keirsey is a young player & needs playing time at the MLB level, which he won't get while Baldelli is around. 

Keirsey is not a young player. He is probably getting more playing time than he has earned.

10 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Gasper is a nice switch hitting, flexible defender on paper, but he’s done nearly nothing.

Unless they don’t hit at all this week, Martin & Keaschall need to infuse some actual depth that helps Team (potentially) score some runs by a week from today.

Gasper, on paper, is a player who might keep you from losing but won't help you win. Martin is the same. Rearranging the bench players isn't going to get it done. They need Correa to hit consistently to win. They need Larnach to hit for power.

[Peter]

3-7 first 10 games is ugly!!! Bats need to wake up!’ France/miranda/juilian are in the hot seat!!! Definitely need Lee and Royce back in lineup!!! This is huge week with division games and need to start winning asap!

[David Maro]

Hey its cold outside!! I don't think Correa could be any colder. Every at bat he has looks worse than the one before. And then of course Buxton is back to swinging for the fences again. Can't see this team being more than a 4th place team.

[Riverbrian]

46 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Actually, it’s not a small sample size.  Please see the two posts directly below yours.  

Understood but I'll say that 2024 is review mirror. 2025 is a small sample size. We have additions and subtractions (not a lot but enough to be context changing) and so do all the opponents that we face. 

When I become disenchanted. I won't be targeting Rocco. I'll be targeting the front office. The front office hired Rocco and the front office put the players on the field. If the manager is blowing it... the front office is the ones to do something about it.  

Am I disenchanted?

Not yet but getting closer because I have developed development concerns. 

When Dombroski was fired by the Red Sox in September 2019. They had just won a world series in 2018 but they had a bloated pay roll and a farm system that Dombroski had drained. 

Our front office was in place at this time. Since then... the Red Sox farm system has risen from near the bottom to near the top. The Red Sox currently have 15 Pre-Arb players on the 26 man roster. The Twins have 9.  

Bottom line: The Twins are going with primarily experienced guys to compete with.

It better work.

If it doesn't... I'm not going to blame Rocco. I'll be looking at the people who hired him and staffed this club with low cost vets.   

My development concerns are years in the making so I hear you. But... right now... 10 games is too soon in regards to 2025.  

[thelanges5]

More from Gleeman:

Matt Wallner and Harrison Bader have combined to hit .300 with a .940 OPS in 67 plate appearances.

All other Twins batters have combined to hit .177 with a .502 OPS in 296 plate appearances.

[Aggies7]

38 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

How does a home plate umpire not grant a "disengagement"? If a pitcher steps off the rubber and throws to first, can the umpire ignore that, say it wasn't a disengagement and call a ball on the pitcher?

I was wondering too if he could have tossed over to first? That umpire was brutal.

[Aggies7]

2 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Nice try Rocco.  It was a good effort to stir up some emotion, but, to this layman watching thousands of miles away, it looked contrived.  Wonder how the team felt? Probably were expecting something like this. Inauthenticity can be detected quite easily and, consequently, ineffective.

Let’s face it. Rocco should’ve been fired no later than five minutes after the last out last season ending the Twins’ epic choke job. But the owners knew they’d be selling and so stuck to their story that this team under Rocco was really a true contender. “Strong, proven management” is a desired typical inclusion in any selling memorandum. Their bankers certainly couldn’t write “Senior operational management in flux and will need to be replaced”. Doing that replacing was just too much work and too risky to do before the sale. The illusion was maintained.

Now it’s come back to bite the Pohlads in the ass.  Sure, the new owners get the opportunity to start over with new management.  However, that is way riskier than having solid leadership already in place when the deal closes. Now add in a 70 win season and a gate of 1.5MM - hardly a recipe for getting top dollar.

Sorry fellow DNers. The Pohlads lost their Rocco bet. Now, in the midst of the sales process, they don’t have the time nor the inclination to make the correct operational decision.  Rocco stays. 

I asked last week if it were fair to question that the FO brought him back so they wouldn’t saddle a new manager with a team they knew was going to stink, and I was told no.

[LambchoP]

I know it's only ten games, but I think a message needs to be sent. Give Zebby Paddack's rotation spot and move him to the pen. Demote Gasper and or Julien and call up Keaschal and Martin. Show this team that results are expected and if you're not doing your job, someone else will get a chance to do it. This team has no energy or fire and it shows. No leadership, no direction. Total mess, really sad. Other coaches get the best out of their players. Seems like we get the absolute worst version of our guys. What's the deal with Correa? If he hits like this while costing the team 37 million? Lol?! It's not like you can send him to AAA. IL most likely, but then who plays SS?

[JD-TWINS]

8 hours ago, howeda7 said:

Fire Rocco. It probably won't help but it sure won't hurt.

We are finally playing Buxton when healthy, but we're going to run Swingin' Christian Vazquez out there for 4 games out of 7 this weeks because it's his "turn" and sit Jeffers on the bench. Tonight it meant him coming up twice with runners in scoring position and of course doing nothing.

Any other manager would have Jeffers catching 5 of 7 this week. But not Rocco. He has a system. And that system says a completely helpless offensive catcher gets 80 starts and 400 AB's no matter what. 

Not completely against your view but Jeffers playing more (Catching & DH in ‘24) just tires him and then there’s no production. To me, Vazquez is a FO issue. He’s the guy the organization has paired with Jeffers and there are ZERO options behind them at AAA. 

[Whitey333]

I know it's only 20 games.  Several days ago was it's only 2 games.  On and on it goes.  I'm pretty sure that when the season ends the 7 losses still count.  Keep in mind we have three wins and two of them are against the White Sox.

[insagt1]

Team looks like they are just playing out the string like last September. No life. Key guys not hitting at all . Lifeless. Not a great look so far. What will it take to awaken these guys? Glad we still have hockey.

[USAFChief]

58 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

How does a home plate umpire not grant a "disengagement"? If a pitcher steps off the rubber and throws to first, can the umpire ignore that, say it wasn't a disengagement and call a ball on the pitcher?

I don't think there is such a thing as a "disengagement" with no runners on base.

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/pitch-timer

In this case, the bases were empty.

SWR initially appeared to claim an issue with his pitchcom. But he then stepped back on the rubber and pitched.

I'm not sure how this should have played out. I can't find an MLB rule explaing a pitcher/catcher's rights when claiming pitchcom issues. I don't know if the umpire is required to grant a time out.

I also think SWR effed up by stepping back on the mound.  But I don't know if that's a rule violation either.

 

 

[1985Fan]

They’re back to not hitting like they did during the collapse last year. This shouldn’t be surprising to anyone. It’s the same players as last year. Bader and France aren’t/can’t carry the hitting load. Lewis isn’t going to save the day. He’s a suspect hitter after his performance during the collapse last year. He needs to prove he can hit at MLB level. We’ll see if Correa and Buxton can get going at the plate, but I don’t think they’re capable of carrying the load consistently. 
If the answer is Keaschall and Rodriguez, this team is in trouble. Relying on rookies to be MLB hitters out of the gate is putting too much pressure on young players. Adding them to a functional offense would be ok, but throwing them into this mess might set their development back. Let them play at AAA until they’ve set the world on fire there and the season is over for the Twins. That might be by mid-season the way Twins are playing. 

 

[Aggies7]

3 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

I know it's only 20 games.  Several days ago was it's only 2 games.  On and on it goes.  I'm pretty sure that when the season ends the 7 losses still count.  Keep in mind we have three wins and two of them are against the White Sox.

Sox haven’t won a game since beating the twins last Monday 😳 

[JD-TWINS]

So, if Team goes 4-6 over the next 10 they would be where they were in ‘24 (7-13 start). Not uplifting by any means! They did play 23 games over .500 though for the next 4 months through August 15.

That was with Correa & Lewis & Buxton in and out. Paddack was out (👍). That was with Wallner at AAA for couple months - Margot playing a bunch of innings - Julien’s bat disappearing - etc.

They look terrible offensively - they lost a game Sunday that was firmly in their grasp. Paddack, to me, is clearly not a rotation piece,  here nor anywhere………continually on the edge or worse.

All is not lost until we see how things look in mid-June. 10 -11 weeks in and there should be a pretty clear picture of what’s up for ‘25. Through games played by April 8th is certainly premature…….end of ‘24 has certainly left a bad taste!

Keaschall - Lee - Lewis - Matthews - Stewart are all potential positives going forward & if 2-3 of the 5 come through that would be a nice change.

[Swing Batter-Batter]

4 hours ago, Fezig said:

If a team is burning through it's relievers after 10 games, I can't imagine what it's going to look like after 100 games. 

 

100 Games? They will be looking for arms after 50 games.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

Even with Baldelli getting ejected, that wasn't enough to get the Twins going because they have no fire & chemistry. As I've said before, our OF is very deep, with our CFers Buck & Bader (RH) have been productive & healthy as well our cOFers (LH). Keirsey (LH) is our bench player, who is our safety net in case any of these get hurt or are unproductive. Even so, he's still valuable as a LH CFer to spell Buck against RHPs, a pinch runner or a defensive sub. He was used as a PR, he stole 2B, provided a spark, scored a run, became a defensive OFer & then was forgotten. Baldelli preaches about getting a running game going but refuses to put in players that make a difference. Still, Keirsey is a young player & needs playing time at the MLB level, which he won't get while Baldelli is around. 

On the other hand, Julien is a liability offensively, defensively, provides no spark on the basepath & needs to be sent down to AAA to finally adjust his swing & learn how to play 1B. We need more than Buxton to spark this dead team. We need Keirsey, Martin & Keaschall to inject new life into this dead team as much as possible. But running is against Baldelli, Tingler & Watkins's way of thinking so they have no idea & don't remember to do so.

Guys that can hit get playing time. (not Kiersey)

(Kiersey) ”…..he was a pinch runner, & he stole a base…..”. Seems the coaches remembered then?

I like youth but Kiersey isn’t displacing anyone currently playing…….if he showed he could hit at the MLB level he’d be playing. The coaching staff has been observing his abilities for years. They need offense and IMO, he doesn’t move the needle.

Julien is an issue and not really much of a contributor to date either. I see Keaschall or Lewis at 1B going forward and Eddie needs to get his hitting together to carve a niche at DH and occasional 2B……….do not see the organization letting him play 1B on any regular basis.

[thelanges5]

Ump scorecard even gave us .61 runs so the offense only scored 1.39 🤮

[Sjoski]

"Correa and Buxton have stunk so far."

Good thing we aren't over paying these guys to produce or anything stupid like that! 

[DJL44]

20 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I don't think there is such a thing as a "disengagement" with no runners on base.

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/pitch-timer

In this case, the bases were empty.

Thanks for pointing that out. I was flipping between the Twins and the basketball game.

[DJL44]

36 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

I know it's only ten games, but I think a message needs to be sent. Give Zebby Paddack's rotation spot and move him to the pen. Demote Gasper and or Julien and call up Keaschal and Martin. 

Gasper will go down for Lee in a few days. I expect Lee will become the starter at 3B with Miranda going to the bench. I think they will make the Mathews for Paddack move but it will probably take a couple more turns in the rotation.

Keaschall isn't coming up anytime soon. He's still rehabbing his arm and splitting time between 2B and DH. I don't think it would help his development to just DH and they aren't going to demote Castro from 2B.

At some point I think they need to address what to do with Vazquez.

[Riverbrian]

3 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

I like youth but Kiersey isn’t displacing anyone currently playing…….if he showed he could hit at the MLB level he’d be playing. The coaching staff has been observing his abilities for years. They need offense and IMO, he doesn’t move the needle.

I'm not arguing. I'm certainly not advocating that Kiersay displace anyone.

However, Just pointing out that it's hard to show anything with 16 scattered AB's in the majors.

As for the coaching staff observing his abilities for years. Same coaching staff and front office that let Brent Rooker go for almost nothing. 

I'm not knocking their abilities. They do this for a living, they have to draw hard lines on thin margins due to roster space limitations. But I'll need to be forgiven for not trusting them entirely. 

Not them or any front office for that matter.  

[LA Vikes Fan]

4 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

When I look at the lineup, the amazing thing is bader and walner are the only two with batting averages over 230. I do think batting averages are worth looking at and this is pretty pathetic. 

What's even worse is that you don't really see a lot that gives you hope that many of the under .230 guys will end the year over .250. Correa and Buxton, most likely. Larnach and Jeffers, probably. After that, looks pretty grim. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

57 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

They’re back to not hitting like they did during the collapse last year. This shouldn’t be surprising to anyone. It’s the same players as last year. Bader and France aren’t/can’t carry the hitting load. Lewis isn’t going to save the day. He’s a suspect hitter after his performance during the collapse last year. He needs to prove he can hit at MLB level. We’ll see if Correa and Buxton can get going at the plate, but I don’t think they’re capable of carrying the load consistently. 
If the answer is Keaschall and Rodriguez, this team is in trouble. Relying on rookies to be MLB hitters out of the gate is putting too much pressure on young players. Adding them to a functional offense would be ok, but throwing them into this mess might set their development back. Let them play at AAA until they’ve set the world on fire there and the season is over for the Twins. That might be by mid-season the way Twins are playing. 

 

I agree that young players are unlikely to save the day but I don't see other options. There aren't any good hitting free agents out there and it would be tough to get value in a trade right now. 

While the season isn't over, it's definitely starting to circle the drain. It's not just the 3-7 record, it's really the thought that our record matches the eye test against a pretty weak starting schedule. The team is showing very little life and very little that gives one hope for improvement, much less the complete turnaround necessary to contend. 

I do think there is at least one player that showed enough in ST to given a shot now - Luke Keaschall. He's playing 2B in AAA and we can DH him some if we need to be careful with the elbow. 2B is a black hole for the Twins. Castro is not really hitting and is better suited to play around the IF. We also need him at 3B right now and maybe some at SS. Julien isn't hitting at all and is a butcher at 2B. Needs to go back to AAA for a reset. Gaspar does not belong on an MLB roster.  Lee is 2-3 weeks away and hasn't shown he can hit MLB pitching. I am not anywhere near sold that's he's even ready now, much less that he would inject life into a lineup. Call up Keaschall, play him 4 days a week at 2B, 2 at DH (we don't have a regular DH), and option/DFA Gaspar. It's no panacea, but it's a start and we need a jolt badly. 

[bean5302]

People really upset with Gasper and his 12 PA, LOL. Yep, that's the guy who's costing the Twins those wins! It's not the bench players who are holding the Twins back. It's the starting lineup and starting pitching. Not saying there might not be better options on the 40 man once injuries clear up, just that the focus on fixing the lineup by swapping out a guy who averages 1 plate appearance per game probably isn't going to be the saving grace.

Should be interesting to watch SWR's velocity next start. Conditioning was a major issue for him last year. That said, he really hasn't pitched well enough to keep getting starts in the first place. Both SWR and Paddack continue to look questionable as legitimate rotation options to me.

Read the game thread yesterday. Lot's of "good starts" for a guy who went 5.2 IP and put 12 base runners on while allowing 4 ER. Lots of praise for a 6.35 ERA...

[$tryf4Life]

3 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

From a Gleeman Skeet:

Twins are now 15-34 since last August 18 for MLB's second-worst record during that time, ahead of only the White Sox at 13-34.

 

This. 

The eye test says this team is bad. 

The past 50 games says this team is bad. 

Its only my spring optimism that leads me to believe they are better than they are playing but that is fading fast. 

 

[CRF]

I'm too old, old school, old fashioned, and way too stupid, to understand "modern" baseball. So take this with a grain of salt, go ahead and laugh all you want...I won't mind, and this is ONLY my inconsequential opinion. I would construct the line up differently than our resident genius analytic manager does. I would do something like this until Lewis and or Lee come back:

Castro 2B

Correa SS

Wallner RF

Larnach DH

Buxton CF

France 1B

Jeffers C

Miranda 3B

Bader LF

Julien sits. Gasper sits (why is the guy even on this team?)Vazquez plays once a week to give Jeffers a rest.

Like I said, this is only my opinion. Go ahead and rip me all you want, I'm fine with it. To what's left of my old senile brain, this makes a lot more sense than what we've been doing. 

 

 

 

[LastOnePicked]

54 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

young players are unlikely to save the day

Well, they could. Get underperforming veterans out of the way, like Detroit did last year, and have some good coaching, and a youth movement might surprise us. But there's no way this current coaching staff could foster that development.

[1985Fan]

41 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I agree that young players are unlikely to save the day but I don't see other options. There aren't any good hitting free agents out there and it would be tough to get value in a trade right now. 

While the season isn't over, it's definitely starting to circle the drain. It's not just the 3-7 record, it's really the thought that our record matches the eye test against a pretty weak starting schedule. The team is showing very little life and very little that gives one hope for improvement, much less the complete turnaround necessary to contend. 

I do think there is at least one player that showed enough in ST to given a shot now - Luke Keaschall. He's playing 2B in AAA and we can DH him some if we need to be careful with the elbow. 2B is a black hole for the Twins. Castro is not really hitting and is better suited to play around the IF. We also need him at 3B right now and maybe some at SS. Julien isn't hitting at all and is a butcher at 2B. Needs to go back to AAA for a reset. Gaspar does not belong on an MLB roster.  Lee is 2-3 weeks away and hasn't shown he can hit MLB pitching. I am not anywhere near sold that's he's even ready now, much less that he would inject life into a lineup. Call up Keaschall, play him 4 days a week at 2B, 2 at DH (we don't have a regular DH), and option/DFA Gaspar. It's no panacea, but it's a start and we need a jolt badly. 

I just don’t think Keaschall has played enough MiLB to justify being called up. I’m old school and believe player development should trump adding him in an attempt to salvage the season. I think it hurts the player and the team in the long term. 
I know that rapid promotion is more common now and some players have had success without spending time in the minors. If you call up Keaschall now, he’ll have to learn at the MLB level instead of the minors. That could be ugly if he struggles (like Lee is) on a team that thinks they’re contenders. Too much pressure on the kid could destroy his confidence and set his development back. That’s the risk. 
After the Twins are out of contention (could be within a month), then call him up when there isn’t pressure to perform. That would be ok, but I still think he needs to get games under his belt at AAA. When I hear that he plays 2B and OF, I’m concerned. Twins push the utility aspect without teaching how to play the position properly. We end up watching a team that doesn’t play fundamentally sound baseball. This teams defense is bad outside of Correa, Buxton, and Bader. That’s a different subject….

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

What's even worse is that you don't really see a lot that gives you hope that many of the under .230 guys will end the year over .250. Correa and Buxton, most likely. Larnach and Jeffers, probably. After that, looks pretty grim. 

I don't think Bader ends the season over .250.