Ohtani and Gambling

[nicksaviking]

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-03-20/gambling-story

So I doubt few actually believe that Ohtani's interpreter himself racked up 4.5M in gambling debts. Had all of this been don through legit gambling sites, I'm sure it would have been tracked, but it sounds like it wasn't. 

All parties deny that Ohtani was placing, or asking his interpreter to place bets, and all parties deny that there was betting on baseball. Really curious how hard MLB will investigate this, because clearly the Dodgers are going to want to sweep this under the rug. I mean, we know the history of what is supposed to happen if you bet on baseball, especially if it's your team. I'd not want Ohtani to be banned from the game, but I'd also not like to see the MLB put on an obvious dog and pony show with an investigation. Casting a blind eye would probably be worse.

[Hrbowski]

He should be placed on administrative leave until the investigation is complete, like MLB has done for other investigations in the past. Of course, I'd be shocked if MLB took any action against him because he's their biggest money maker right now. I find it extremely hard to believe that Ohtani wasn't involved, with the shifting stories and amount of money that was being bet.

[nicksaviking]

1 minute ago, Hrbowski said:

He should be placed on administrative leave until the investigation is complete, like MLB has done for other investigations in the past. Of course, I'd be shocked if MLB took any action against him because he's their biggest money maker right now. I find it extremely hard to believe that Ohtani wasn't involved, with the shifting stories and amount of money that was being bet.

Yeah, for MLB the big pocket Dodgers are probably a secondary concern. How can you clear the dollar signs out of their eyes when they think about their market in Japan?

[danielp19653]

12 minutes ago, Hrbowski said:

He should be placed on administrative leave until the investigation is complete, like MLB has done for other investigations in the past. Of course, I'd be shocked if MLB took any action against him because he's their biggest money maker right now. I find it extremely hard to believe that Ohtani wasn't involved, with the shifting stories and amount of money that was being bet.

I think the biggest difference at this point is the lack of accusations, with the domestic issues, sexual assault, drug test failures, they all are based on someone (MLB in the case of a drug test) directly accusing the player of doing something. In this case its the opposite everyone involved so far as said he wasn't involved in any meaningful way and isn't being investigated by any federal agency at this point either. Were that to change and anyone pointed the finger that's where I would expect the MLB to push for the administrative leave. Agree that the shifting stories definitely doesn't make it look like Ohtani is as innocent as claimed.

[Parfigliano]

25 minutes ago, danielp19653 said:

I think the biggest difference at this point is the lack of accusations, with the domestic issues, sexual assault, drug test failures, they all are based on someone (MLB in the case of a drug test) directly accusing the player of doing something. In this case its the opposite everyone involved so far as said he wasn't involved in any meaningful way and isn't being investigated by any federal agency at this point either. Were that to change and anyone pointed the finger that's where I would expect the MLB to push for the administrative leave. Agree that the shifting stories definitely doesn't make it look like Ohtani is as innocent as claimed.

He was involved in a very meaningful way via wire transfers (more then one) from his bank account to an illegal bookie.  1st statement from interpreter says Ohtani OK'd the transfers and knew they were to pay illegal gambling debts owed said illegal bookie.  Using wire transfers to pay this illegal debt makes it a Federal offense involving Ohtani.  Thats why Ohtani's lawyers are now saying the interpreter stole the money in an attempt to disassociate Ohtani from wire transfering the money to pay an illegal debt.

Time will tell if the interpreter is willing to throw himself on the Federal offense conviction grenade to protect Ohtani and probably do prison time and if not US citizen get deported.

[nicksaviking]

12 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

He was involved in a very meaningful way via wire transfers (more then one) from his bank account to an illegal bookie.  1st statement from interpreter says Ohtani OK'd the transfers and knew they were to pay illegal gambling debts owed said illegal bookie.  Using wire transfers to pay this illegal debt makes it a Federal offense involving Ohtani.  Thats why Ohtani's lawyers are now saying the interpreter stole the money in an attempt to disassociate Ohtani from wire transfering the money to pay an illegal debt.

Time will tell if the interpreter is willing to throw himself on the Federal offense conviction grenade to protect Ohtani and probably do prison time and if not US citizen get deported.

Probably not an either or. He probably gets prison time THEN gets deported.

[bean5302]

If Ohtani wasn't involved, or if Ohtani was involved while bets were placed from California, there will be criminal charges. 

1) Sports gambling outside baseball is not against MLB rules. If Ohtani lost $4.5MM betting on other sports, it's a non-issue from a MLB rules perspective.
2) Online sports gambling is ILLEGAL in California so bets cannot be placed while the device used to place the bet is in the state. Whomever placed the bets is in trouble if they were placed while standing in California.
3) Commenting on what is a criminal investigation is verboten. Any and all attorney's are going to advise their clients not to say a word more than they absolutely have to for a whole host of reasons.
4) What is being alleged is that Ippei Mizuhara embezzled $4.5MM from Ohtani, using Ohtani's money to pay off gambling debts, and then Mizuhara attempted to cover for the payment coming from Ohtani's accounts by saying that Ohtani authorized the wire transfers.

Ohtani is extremely likely to have granted people power of attorney to handle his financials. I don't know about Mizuhara's expertise in the financial world, but he is obvious close to Ohtani and I could see Mizuhara having access to some of Ohtani's financial assets. There is no reason Ohtani would have assumed $4.5MM in debt for his interpreter. The only way Ohtani is in trouble is if he placed online sports bets while he was in standing in California.

While I truly believe the Dodgers and Yankees get whatever they want, whenever they want from MLB, that is probably not the case for law enforcement when we're talking about millions and millions of dollars of illegal betting with a name as high a profile as Ohtani's.

[PseudoSABR]

4 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

The only way Ohtani is in trouble is if he placed online sports bets while he was in standing in California.
 

There are lots of federal laws regarding the use of wire transfers in part of criminal enterprise.  If Mizuhara, illegally made bets, and had debts related to those bets, and Ohtani, knowingly wired his funds to pay for those debts, he certainly can be pulled into a criminal conspiracy, as well as likely being guilty of illegal wire transfers.  

[Cris E]

Oh that poor man. He's only making $2m this year so losing $4.5 has to leave him destitute. I hope he's saved some money from early in his career so he's got a place to live....

/s

Also, the interpreter went to high school in California so I don't know if deportation is in the cards. But I do believe he could be looking at some prison time. And I tend to believe, absent any actual facts, that his first story of Ohtani helping him out is likely the true one and his recanting and implying theft is just a clumsy attempt to create some space between Ohtani and the gamblers.

[Mike Sixel]

free from Craig!

https://cupofcoffee.beehiiv.com/p/cup-coffee-extra-breaking-shohei-ohtaniippei-mizuhara-story

 

[Rosterman]

I wanna work for someone that will cover $4.5 million of my bad gambling debts.

[nicksaviking]

He should know to never take advice from a ghost that looks like this..

 

[Cris E]

I wonder if he just said he'd cover the debts without knowing how bad things were. Saying "Sure, I can cover you" is easy when you have $40m in your wallet and this guy is probably in for what, $15k?  $50k? That would explain why he was issued so much credit on an interpreter's salary.  I'm sure the payment schedule will come out and this point will be illuminated eventually.

[Parfigliano]

When is Ohtani going to take a break from his MLB career to pursue his long dreamed of NBA career?

[cheeseheadgophfan]

This whole story doesn't pass the smell test......you've seen the video of Ohtani and the interpreter talking very friendly to each other in the dugout supposedly after it was known that he had "stolen" 4.5 million dollars?  SMH. All sports gambling is illegal in CA so even if Ohtani wired the funds to the bookie to cover illegal bets, he's in trouble.  I haven't seen any reports that any of the bets were on baseball, so a lifetime ban is unlikely (ala Pete Rose) but I can see a years suspension or something along those lines.  

What I can't fathom is how you an lose 4.5 million dollars betting on sports.  How can you be that bad at picking winners???  LOL

[nicksaviking]

10 minutes ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

What I can't fathom is how you an lose 4.5 million dollars betting on sports.  How can you be that bad at picking winners???  LOL

Maybe he's just a really, really big Carolina Panthers fan.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Maybe he's just a really, really big Carolina Panthers fan.

Maybe he bet it all on the Blue Jays in the first game of the Twins playoff series last fall, and much to his surprise, the Twins came through!

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

I'll start off by saying that I am not a gambler and frankly don't get it (the thrill of winning).  I believe that all this online sports gambling stuff will lead to nothing but trouble for major league sports and players, outside of the damage done to the gamblers and their families.  I've read some stuff regarding NBA referees and now this.  Whenever we see subjective calls (think d-back call in that Saints playoff game a few years back) go one way or another, we may think about whether that was due to a large bet on the line.  Whenever we see a poor performance by a star player, same thing.

I have no idea whether Ohtani is or is not guilty here, but I gotta think Pete Rose is watching this VERY CLOSELY.

Was discussing this very thing with friends a couple months ago. The gambling thing really feels like a parallel to the online poker craze of a few years ago.  I was surprised by hearing from friends who I thought would still be loving the gambling but like me we're pretty much over it.  I've done it, got the experience but now can't see anything but huge conflicts of interest coming.  We all basically agreed that it was a house of cards due to come down eventually but this story seems like a huge wrecking ball.

Professional sports in general are in trouble with their financial models.  They wouldn't be open arms for gambling if they weren't facing TV revenue going up in smoke without a good replacement.  Professional golf is a few years ahead of the rest.

Interesting they changed the story to a criminal investigation. That seems to guarantee it will stay a story, generate a full investigation with discovery and dispositions and subpoenas and other fun stuff.  They will have access to Ohtanis bank records.  That the MLB is saying they are not investigating probably isn't a big deal at this point, they know it's out of their hands very quickly. They are probably under legal advise to say nothing.  

A suspension of Ohtani at this point would feel just like the Harbaugh thing a few months ago.  "See! We did something!"

 

[sweetmusicviola16]

What's good for Rose should be good for Ohtani.

[jkcarew]

Under the rug this will go. If there is more than just smoke, and a full-blown and coordinated cover-up is required, then so it will be.

The league is already in bed with this devil. (As are other leagues.) For MLB, gambling is a clear…and unapologetically marketed…strategy to bring in the young male who is otherwise uninterested in consuming baseball.

A. Bartlett Giamatti is dead and gone…as is “in the interest of the game”. And neither are ever coming back.

 

[Parfigliano]

13 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

What's good for Rose should be good for Ohtani.

If guilty.  Yup.

[Parfigliano]

8 minutes ago, jkcarew said:

Under the rug this will go. If there is more than just smoke, and a full-blown and coordinated cover-up is required, then so it will be.

The league is already in bed with this devil. (As are other leagues.) For MLB, gambling is a clear…and unapologetically marketed…strategy to bring in the young male who is otherwise uninterested in consuming baseball.

A. Bartlett Giamatti is dead and gone…as is “in the interest of the game”. And neither are ever coming back.

 

Cynical.  More then likely right too.

[Squirrel]

13 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

What's good for Rose should be good for Ohtani.

Rose gambled on baseball while he was a player/manager. That is prohibited. I don’t think Ohtani’s interpreter gambled on baseball, but who knows? And was it Ohtani who actually was the one gambling? It all seems suspicious, but hopefully MLB will do a thorough investigation. For the record, here is the MLB rule regarding gambling. If I’m reading it incorrectly, unless he was gambling on baseball or gambling illegally, it’s not against the rules. We will see what the investigation turns up.

(d) GAMBLING.
(1) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform, shall be declared ineligible for one year.
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared permanently ineligible.
(3) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee who places bets with illegal book makers, or agents for illegal book makers, shall be subject to such penalty as the Commissioner deems appropriate in light of the facts and circumstances of the conduct. Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee who operates or works for an illegal bookmaking business shall be subject to a minimum of a one-year suspension by the Commissioner. For purposes of this provision, an illegal bookmaker is an individual who accepts, places or handles wagers on sporting events from members of the public as part of a gaming operation that is unlawful in the jurisdiction in which the bets are accepted.

[nicksaviking]

14 hours ago, jkcarew said:

Under the rug this will go. If there is more than just smoke, and a full-blown and coordinated cover-up is required, then so it will be.

 

If it's up to MLB, for sure. But if the feds are involved? Taking down illegal gambling rings sounds like a party they get excited about crashing.

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

Rose gambled on baseball while he was a player/manager. That is prohibited. I don’t think Ohtani’s interpreter gambled on baseball, but who knows? And was it Ohtani who actually was the one gambling? It all seems suspicious, but hopefully MLB will do a thorough investigation. For the record, here is the MLB rule regarding gambling. If I’m reading it incorrectly, unless he was gambling on baseball or gambling illegally, it’s not against the rules. We will see what the investigation turns up.

(d) GAMBLING.
(1) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform, shall be declared ineligible for one year.
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared permanently ineligible.
(3) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee who places bets with illegal book makers, or agents for illegal book makers, shall be subject to such penalty as the Commissioner deems appropriate in light of the facts and circumstances of the conduct. Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee who operates or works for an illegal bookmaking business shall be subject to a minimum of a one-year suspension by the Commissioner. For purposes of this provision, an illegal bookmaker is an individual who accepts, places or handles wagers on sporting events from members of the public as part of a gaming operation that is unlawful in the jurisdiction in which the bets are accepted.

Illegal bookmaker element is established.  So did Ohtani place a bet?  Did Ohtani knowingly pay the bookmaker to cover his friends debt?  Is insuring that the bookmaker gets paid working for the bookmaker?  

Big red flag---Why change story from Ohtani knowingly paying bookmaker to friend steals from Ohtani to pay bookmaker?  Other then clumsy attempt to sheild Ohtani?

[nicksaviking]

It's also possible the Dodgers may decide in the near future that this disaster isn't worth the 700M they're paying him and see an out to void the contract.

I'm guessing they won't in this case, but if the feds get involved and it gets messy and public opinion starts swaying the other way, maybe?

[Squirrel]

34 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Illegal bookmaker element is established.  So did Ohtani place a bet?  Did Ohtani knowingly pay the bookmaker to cover his friends debt?  Is insuring that the bookmaker gets paid working for the bookmaker?  

Big red flag---Why change story from Ohtani knowingly paying bookmaker to friend steals from Ohtani to pay bookmaker?  Other then clumsy attempt to sheild Ohtani?

As I said, all suspicious. MLB will investigate and we will see the outcome.

[bean5302]

This is a pretty good link if people are interested in the illegal bookmaker element.
https://sportshandle.com/ohtani-bombhell-shifts-investigation-to-bowyer/

From everything I can tell right now, MLB, the Dodgers, Mizuhara, Ohtani and Bowyer's public positions currently amount to:
No MLB betting
No Ohtani involvement
Embezzlement of Ohtani's money by Mizuhara
Wire fraud by Mizuhara
Illegal book making if bets were placed by Mizuhara from prohibited states.

MLB and L.A. probably aren't going to have a lot of power to influence the case since it's being handled by the feds.

[Parfigliano]

40 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

This is a pretty good link if people are interested in the illegal bookmaker element.
https://sportshandle.com/ohtani-bombhell-shifts-investigation-to-bowyer/

From everything I can tell right now, MLB, the Dodgers, Mizuhara, Ohtani and Bowyer's public positions currently amount to:
No MLB betting
No Ohtani involvement
Embezzlement of Ohtani's money by Mizuhara
Wire fraud by Mizuhara
Illegal book making if bets were placed by Mizuhara from prohibited states.

MLB and L.A. probably aren't going to have a lot of power to influence the case since it's being handled by the feds.

More then one of these public positions will definitely reposition before this ends.  Fed offense convictions involving wire fraud can go up to 20yrs/$250k fine. 

Ohtani also has to worry about the real possibilty of deportation with permanent bar on reentry if convicted.

[jkcarew]

18 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

Cynical.  More then likely right too.

Yes. I am cynical on this topic. I’m not ‘against’ gambling on moral or religious grounds. I’ll dabble rarely. But, IMO, it’s insidious, and more dangerous than our current culture acknowledges…and not just for sports, but in general.

The way the professional leagues have fully embraced gambling is, in itself, cynical. Yes, simple greed is in play. But, IMO, it also says, we’re not sure our product is great, and can’t figure out how to make it as great as it could be…but we’re happy to mitigate that via your gambling compulsion.