Jorge Polanco’s Twins Tenure is Approaching an End

[DocBauer]

Is there a roster crunch in the INF? If not yet, there will be pretty soon. I've been pleasantly surprised and pleased with what Solano has brought to the team this year, but I don't see him back. Very disappointed in Miranda, but I'm believing more and more his shoulder bothered him a lot more than was initially thought/reported and I'm hoping he's healthy and back next year looking like his previous self. Lee is going to be very, very good...but it doesn't meant he's ready YET, or opening day next year, but he's not far away at all. Severino is a little further away, but very impressive with the bat, and is now playing a little first as well. He could help at some point in 2024. And less we forget, we've got Lewis, Correa, Julien, and Kirilloff all part of the INF. Oh, and then there's Castro, a big surprise this season. And he might be challenged by Prato and a healthy Helman next year. (I'm not even including Martin in the discussion as I believe he's going to be a primary OF who can play a little INF). And while Farmer has disappointed with his bat this year, he's one tough dude, well liked, a reported leader, and a really solid glove man. Lastly, but not last, there is the man being discussed here, Polanco.

ALL of this is to say there are a lot of options here now, some on the rebound, and more on the way. and that's a good thing! But to me the argument really comes down to keeping Farmer or Polanco for 2024. I'd love to keep both, but not only is that expensive, you can't just keep everybody. The roster just isn't big enough. But ONE of them provides a veteran leader and solid player for 2024.

I'd trust Farmer to be the better overall defensive player, and that's not an insult to Polanco. I'd trust Farmer to be healthier and more available game to game, week to week, month to month. Polanco is the better hitter, if his legs are under him. And that's the problem, his legs are about 8-10years older than the rest of him. But if his legs can hold up, he's a much better offensive threat than Farmer. And they aren't going to be earning salaries that are vastly different in 2024, potentially.

Do you like Farmer and better defense and better projected availability? Or do you like Polanco and switch hitting and better offense?

I'm torn. But because I have been such a fan in Polanco, I guess I'd bet one one more good year for his legs and let Farmer go and pick up Planco's option for 2024.

[bird]

6 minutes ago, RpR said:

With out Castro and Taylor's running and fielding the Twins would not be as far in front of Cleveland as they are.

Pie-in-the-Sky rookies more often than not turn out to be Moose Turd Pie.

I guess I take a more nuanced view of rookies. Royce Lewis and Austin Martin are #! abSo Royce Lewis and Austin Martin are #1 and #5 overall draft selections. Now, if I was suggesting replacing Taylor with Celestino and Taylor with Helman? Then maybe you'd be on to something regarding a 100 loss season, although even THAT change may not result in the disaster you envision, my friend. I mean Castro's 1.8 WAR and Taylor's 1.4 WAR ain't needle-changers.

[DocBauer]

**Adendum: I wanted to state, and forgot to in my original post, that if Polanco is indeed brought back, I think he'd make a fine 1B as well. He's got good enough hands, isn't small, and it would allow him to play 3 spots and maybe even be the 3rd option at SS behind Lewis, 4th if and when Lee is ready. It makes total sense to me.

[Major League Ready]

13 hours ago, RpR said:

With out Castro and Taylor's running and fielding the Twins would not be as far in front of Cleveland as they are.

Pie-in-the-Sky rookies more often than not turn out to be Moose Turd Pie.

The statement is amazing.  Let's highlight a couple average players while ignoring Julien / Walner / Lewis and Kirilloff who has yet to really prove himself because of injuries.   For that matter, Jeffers was not all that proven either and last winter many were insisting he needed to be strictly a back-up.  Let's further ignore that the other proven vets have mostly underperformed.  Talk about selective recognition of the facts.

[terrydactyls]

7 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

He is making peanuts compared to Buxton. Sadly Buxton really didn’t live up to expectations.  Maybe 1 or 2 seasons?

Buxton is a different topic.  This is about what to do with Poanco.

[terrydactyls]

5 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

Banking on Lewis being healthy for a whole season is also risky.  

That is true for everyone playing any sport at any level, amateur or professional.

[Linus]

For me it’s about health. If the training staff feels he is fully healthy at the end of this season allowing him to train this off season I absolutely pick up his option. Polo has been a really good player - odds are none of the listed replacements will be as good as Polo next year. Lee might be an exception but he might not be up right away. We will really need him if Lewis ends up playing CF. I hope everyone has noticed his fielding the last several games. He has saved several runs compared to if Julien was in the game. 

[DocBauer]

3 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

The statement is amazing.  Let's highlight a couple average players while ignoring Julien / Walner / Lewis and Kirilloff who has yet to really prove himself because of injuries.   For that matter, Jeffers was not all that proven either and last off=-season many were insisting he needed to be strictly a back-up.  Let's further ignore that the other proven vets have mostly underperformed.  Talk about selective recognition of the facts.

While off topic, I'm pleased you brought Jeffers in to the conversion.

There have been a few of us...I'd like to think I've been at the front...that have embraced his game calling, handling of the staff, and overall OK defense as being positives. A bat first catcher has grown right in front of us defensively, though not surprisingly to those who have watched him. He's continued to work hard on his defense. And let's be honest, throwing guys out isn't always or only on the catcher being better, but part of it depends on the pitcher as well. Better arms, work by Jeffers, suddenly he's throwing better.

And the "bat first" catcher is starting to see the results of his potential and ability through hard work and experience. 

[HrbieFan]

Twins signed him to a bargain deal and reaped the rewards. Does Polanco get $10m in FA now? Probably not, but some team would give him close to that.  Would he stay for a revised 2 year $15m with bonus potential? When healthy, he is the type of hitter that stirs the drink. 

[DJL44]

I do think one consequence of picking up Polanco's option could be losing Nick Gordon from the roster. I don't see room for all of Polanco, Farmer, Castro and Gordon as utility players.

[wabene]

21 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Similar signings last offseason

Jean Segura 2 years $17M (underperforming)

Brandon Drury 2 years $17M (meets expectations)

Aledmys Diaz 2 years $14.5M (underperforming)

Matt Carpenter 2 years $12M (underperforming)

Jace Peterson 2 years $9.5M (meets expectations)

Adam Frazier 1 year $8M (meets expectations)

Wil Myers 1 year $7.5M (underperforming)

Jeimer Candelario 1 year $5M (OVERperforming)

Evan Longoria 1 year $4M (meet expectations)

Elvis Andrus 1 year $3M (underperforming)

Donovan Solano 1 year $2M (OVERperforming)

Josh Harrison 1 year $2M (underperforming)

Willi Castro 1 year $1.8M (OVERperforming)

Yes I think Polo is positioning himself as a utility type and would accept a 2 year deal at a lower AAV than 10.5m. His track record the last few years has lowered his leverage. Polo is an asset on many levels for this franchise and it would be wise to keep him around as you usher in the next wave. He would also be more tradable with that kind of deal. 

[wabene]

20 hours ago, DJL44 said:

So you'd rather have the more expensive player because he's more likely to be injured and miss games? That's some convoluted reasoning.

His point is that if Polo is healthy he is a strong asset and if not it opens up the chance to try out depth with high upside. Farmer will most likely be healthy, mediocre and taking up a 26 man spot all season. I'd call that sound reasoning. 

[MGM4706]

Polanco still has life left. Made 3 plays wed night that Julien would have just waved at. Him and Correa are the best DP combo. Julien is horrible on DP feeds and range is so limited. Lee may replace Polanco but not Julien. Julien was just 0-13 so pitchers may be figuring him out like they did with Miranda who we all thought would be at 3rd for next 10 years. And Julien getting picked off first twice in key situations shows his baseball instincts still need work.

[DJL44]

21 minutes ago, wabene said:

 Farmer will most likely be healthy, mediocre and taking up a 26 man spot all season.

Isn't healthy and mediocre exactly what you want from a backup?

[wabene]

5 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Isn't healthy and mediocre exactly what you want from a backup?

Does mediocre get you wins? Does a well paid mediocre vet block young talent from rising? If Polo is healthy he is a big difference maker. If a player like that will accept a utility role, that might just give you a leg up on your competition. If he is injured, try out your young talent. You might just happen upon a rookie hot streak which could also give you an advantage.  

[Jeff K]

On 8/18/2023 at 9:35 AM, roger said:

Is it, Cody?

Polo and Kepler are going to be two huge decisions the front office must make at year end.  I can see them going either way with each.  Personally, don't have a clue what they will do or even an opinion on what they should. 

Both have been a huge part of the Twins for as long as many of us can remember.  If either or both are gone, will be missed by many of us.

I love Polanco and he has been great for the Twins.  That said, professional sports is a harsh business.  We are seeing diminishing performance from Jorge which statistics say will accelerate.  The Twins need to make room for all their youngsters who are performing.  I've heard folks advocate moving Kirilloff back to the outfield...which isn't a bad idea; however, I think first base might be the best position for Julien.

[MABB1959]

Always seems that getting rid of reliable players and getting unknowns is the Twins MO.   No way they should let him go!

[MABB1959]

I bet he is hoping for a trade.  Bet many would be quite happy to be on a different team.  

[jorgenswest]

1 hour ago, MABB1959 said:

I bet he is hoping for a trade.  Bet many would be quite happy to be on a different team.  

Not at all my perception.

[Wizard11]

Polanco would be a great super utility man IMO.  It is common in baseball for an aging vet to transition to a reduced role.  In Polanco’s case that would likely also translate to better health.  

All the angst about a spot in the infield for Julien seems misplaced to me.  He is our next DH who can grab a glove if needed. Maybe he starts 2024 @ 2nd base if they don’t feel Lee is ready or they want to suppress service time for Lee . 

Lee, Lewis, and Castro will cover 2B and 3B by mid 2024.  Martin will likely replace Taylor as the “backup” CF who gets 400 ABs.  Kirilloff will likely stay at 1B.  Buxton plays CF and IL.  Wallner and Kepler in the corners.  Lewis, Lee, Castro, and Polanco could all cover SS when Correa is NA.   

Gordon, Farmer, Taylor, and Solano are likely gone.  These are the guys that are pushed off the roster by younger players.  This also makes it easier to find 40 man roster space for players like Severino and Prato.

 

 

[LA Vikes Fan]

Guys, I really don't understand this desire to get rid of Polanco. Let's start with the basics. We need 6 infielders in 2024, 2 of whom can play SS. It's 6 IFs, not 1 IB, 1 2B, etc. All of them can and should be relatively interchangeable at 1B, 2B, and 3B. That's the way you ride out injuries, slumps, platoon advantages, etc. and remain competitive. That's modern baseball. That's the way this team is being built. 

Ok, who are those 6 next year for the Twins? Correa, Lewis, Julien, and Kirilloff are locks. I don't see Kirilloff in lF, we have enough OFs. That leaves you Polanco, Farmer, Solano, and Miranda, and a bunch of now AAA guys in Lee, Severino, and maaaybe Austin Martin although I think he's an OF in the majors. Castro? More of a super utility/OF than an IF. Same for Gordon. Now rank them for 2024. Polanco is clearly #1. He hits better than Farmer, fields better than Solano or Miranda, and is more versatile in the IF than either of them. Lee? Severino? They both need to tear up AAA first, and they both just got there. Could they be mid-season call ups? Absolutely, but not before then. Is it Polanco's salary? Well, it's an option so pay the freight for 1 year or maybe give him a 2 year deal at around 7m AAV. The Twins have a lot of low salaried players now so the overall payroll can handle that easily and still fortify the pitching staff with FAs. It's just hard to see a rationale for losing Polanco other than wanting Lee or Severino up all year. Hard to see the sense in creating uncertainty with an unproven player when you have a good to very good veteran for that spot. 

Next year's IF group is Correa, Julien, Lewis, Kiriloff, Polanco, and either Miranda (my bet) or Farmer coming out of ST. Solano is 35 and gone next year. Gallo is way gone. Julien and Polanco take a lot of 1B reps in the offseason and ST next year and they plus Miranda are the alternative to Kirilloff at 1B, not Solano or Gallo. That is a solid to very good group who can all field at least competently with the possible exception of Julien and have all shown that they can hit in the top 6 spots in an MLB lineup. Julien will be better at D next year with more reps and work, maybe even average. He stays for his bat and you find him a place to play. 

Keep Polanco next year. I see no one as good or better to replace him at least at the start of the season and there isn't a good reason to lose him. 

 

[DJL44]

On 8/19/2023 at 9:21 PM, MABB1959 said:

Always seems that getting rid of reliable players and getting unknowns is the Twins MO.   No way they should let him go!

He hasn't been reliable. He's missed 60% of the games due to injury.

[DJL44]

31 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

That leaves you Polanco, Farmer, Solano, and Miranda, and a bunch of now AAA guys in Lee, Severino, and maaaybe Austin Martin although I think he's an OF in the majors. Castro? More of a super utility/OF than an IF. Same for Gordon. Now rank them for 2024.

There's also every player available as a free agent and several players who are arbitration eligible on other rosters (ex: Farmer and Taylor). The question isn't just whether Polanco is better than the alternatives but whether he's $10.5M better. Solano (for $2M) has been much more important to the 2023 Twins than Polanco.

Castro has been a better infield defender than Polanco this season. Not sure why you dismiss him as an option.

[Major League Ready]

45 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Guys, I really don't understand this desire to get rid of Polanco. Let's start with the basics. We need 6 infielders in 2024, 2 of whom can play SS. It's 6 IFs, not 1 IB, 1 2B, etc. All of them can and should be relatively interchangeable at 1B, 2B, and 3B. That's the way you ride out injuries, slumps, platoon advantages, etc. and remain competitive. That's modern baseball. That's the way this team is being built. 

Ok, who are those 6 next year for the Twins? Correa, Lewis, Julien, and Kirilloff are locks. I don't see Kirilloff in lF, we have enough OFs. That leaves you Polanco, Farmer, Solano, and Miranda, and a bunch of now AAA guys in Lee, Severino, and maaaybe Austin Martin although I think he's an OF in the majors. Castro? More of a super utility/OF than an IF. Same for Gordon. Now rank them for 2024. Polanco is clearly #1. He hits better than Farmer, fields better than Solano or Miranda, and is more versatile in the IF than either of them. Lee? Severino? They both need to tear up AAA first, and they both just got there. Could they be mid-season call ups? Absolutely, but not before then. Is it Polanco's salary? Well, it's an option so pay the freight for 1 year or maybe give him a 2 year deal at around 7m AAV. The Twins have a lot of low salaried players now so the overall payroll can handle that easily and still fortify the pitching staff with FAs. It's just hard to see a rationale for losing Polanco other than wanting Lee or Severino up all year. Hard to see the sense in creating uncertainty with an unproven player when you have a good to very good veteran for that spot. 

Next year's IF group is Correa, Julien, Lewis, Kiriloff, Polanco, and either Miranda (my bet) or Farmer coming out of ST. Solano is 35 and gone next year. Gallo is way gone. Julien and Polanco take a lot of 1B reps in the offseason and ST next year and they plus Miranda are the alternative to Kirilloff at 1B, not Solano or Gallo. That is a solid to very good group who can all field at least competently with the possible exception of Julien and have all shown that they can hit in the top 6 spots in an MLB lineup. Julien will be better at D next year with more reps and work, maybe even average. He stays for his bat and you find him a place to play. 

Keep Polanco next year. I see no one as good or better to replace him at least at the start of the season and there isn't a good reason to lose him. 

 

I have no problem with them keeping Polanco.  However, he will not be a starter which changes how and if he fits into the mix.  He is not all that versatile because we don't want him at SS and the SSS at 3B has not looked good.  I would look at who are the 5 bench players as opposed to who are the 6 INfers because some of our utility players can play both IF and OF. 

Castro can play LF/CF/3B/2B/SS.   Gordon can Play LF/CF/2B/SS   Severino can play 1B/2B3B. 

Martin can play CF/LF/2B/SS    Farmer can play 2B/3B/SS   Miranda can play 3B/1B    Lee is 3B/SS and perhaps 2B

Prato could be in the mix as well playing  2B/3B.   That's a lot of depth!

Things really change once Lee is here.  With lee at 3B I suspect Lewis plays 6 days a week in multiple positions.  Polanco can really only provide depth at 2B.  It makes no sense to play him anywhere else.  With this is mind, is the $10M better spent on pitching and the ABs better invested in providing opportunity for Severino/Prato/Martin/Miranda?  Tough call!

[Battle ur tail off]

On 8/19/2023 at 11:19 AM, Jeff K said:

I love Polanco and he has been great for the Twins.  That said, professional sports is a harsh business.  We are seeing diminishing performance from Jorge which statistics say will accelerate.  The Twins need to make room for all their youngsters who are performing.  I've heard folks advocate moving Kirilloff back to the outfield...which isn't a bad idea; however, I think first base might be the best position for Julien.

I agree with you in the sense that they may have to make room for younger players in the infield. I am NOT interested most likely in an extention for Jorge, but that option year next year might be hard to pass up, especially if he is healthy. Worse case the Twins bomb next year and he can be moved for possible prospects if he indeed produces himself next season.

[Mike Sixel]

I like Polanco. I don't think I keep him....

1. He's not very good defensively. You want a good defensive bench guy to replace Julien late in games. Who is your backup SS if he's on the roster and Farmer isn't?

2. He's not been healthy for two years. Not sure why he would be next year.

3. He blocks young players. THIS FO has shown they LOVE veterans. I mean, Julien was great in replacing Polanco the first time, but was sent down and was only up again because Polanco got hurt a second time. I don't trust this FO to give Lee or Severino shots next year if Polanco is on the roster.

4. He's better than many teams' 2b, and has trade value. 

5. That's a good chuck of change for a backup. 

6. He's not ever going to be demoted to AAA for depth reasons.

If they do keep him, I hope they are smart enough to move on if he doesn't play well (Gallo indicates that's unlikely) or if Lee and/or Severino are mashing next year.

[MABB1959]

Always so quick to let players go and as much as would hate to lose Polanco, I would be happy if he landed on a competitive team.  

• Arraez
• Hicks
• Rosario (current NL player of the week)
• Berrios (pretty good and injury free)
• Suzuki (he hung around for a long time and played many games.  His hitting was decent)
• Escobar

[LA Vikes Fan]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

I have no problem with them keeping Polanco.  However, he will not be a starter which changes how and if he fits into the mix.  He is not all that versatile because we don't want him at SS and the SSS at 3B has not looked good.  I would look at who are the 5 bench players as opposed to who are the 6 INfers because some of our utility players can play both IF and OF. 

Castro can play LF/CF/3B/2B/SS.   Gordon can Play LF/CF/2B/SS   Severino can play 1B/2B3B. 

Martin can play CF/LF/2B/SS    Farmer can play 2B/3B/SS   Miranda can play 3B/1B    Lee is 3B/SS and perhaps 2B

Prato could be in the mix as well playing  2B/3B.   That's a lot of depth!

Things really change once Lee is here.  With lee at 3B I suspect Lewis plays 6 days a week in multiple positions.  Polanco can really only provide depth at 2B.  It makes no sense to play him anywhere else.  With this is mind, is the $10M better spent on pitching and the ABs better invested in providing opportunity for Severino/Prato/Martin/Miranda?  Tough call!

That is a tough call. It depends a little on how confident you are that players now in AAA or who have only performed for limited periods will do next year. Castro is what he is; his numbers this year are right in line with his career number except that Rocco of all people turned him loose and now he's a dangerous base stealer. Having said that, I think Polanco is better at the bat and in the field. Gordon looked good for half of 2022; otherwise he's been injured or not very good. Farmer can't hit (not even LG H pitching this year) and is 31. Miranda has been good - 2022- and injured/bad - 2023. Parato, Lee, Severino, et al., all minor leaguers at this point. Gordon is a half season wonder and I think is on a new team in 2024 unless he can find a way to make the team as the 5th OF.  

I would keep both Polanco and Castro to start 2024. I see Polanco as a IF UTl playing mostly 1B and 2B, but able to play 3B at an average(ish) level. I think his bat and clutch hitting makes him important to have around. Castro is our 4th OF/backup CF. Parato is an OF and he and Severino start 2024 at AAA. The tough two for me are Miranda and Farmer. There's room for one - two if you dump Polanco but I think he's better than either of them in the field (Miranda) or at the plate (Farmer). I'm rooting for Miranda to come back and be the 6th IF behind Correa, Kirilloff, Lewis, Julien and Polanco, but I could see making him re-prove himself in AAA after this season and keeping Farmer's glove around. Still, I'd like to see Miranda, Gordon, or even Lee make the team over Farmer. 

I do think we will see Miranda, Lee, Severino, and Prato with the Twins in 2024, probably in that order. I just don't think we will or should see them out of the gate. I think the team does a new 2 year 12-14 million deal with Polanco. He is tradeable with that contract if he's healthy and one of the younger guys breaks out, and is great depth to have at the MLB level. His contract isn't too onerous if he spends another season on the IL. it's away to have our cake and eat it too - protect ourselves from relying on guys who aren't ready while having a tradeable asset if we get a breakout from the others.  And this all assumes that Julien, Lewis, Correa and Kirilloff are healthy. If they aren't we gotta have Polanco as Lewis moves to SS.    

[SteveLV]

The good news is that the Twins don't need to make this decision now.  They have a fourth of the season left to play out, see how Polanco hits and fields, and whether he stays healthy.

[RpR]

WCCO TV just had spiel on Lee, not much more than how he feels but they did say the Twins have too many talented infielders.

Youngsters often have greater trade value than a veteran, unless the vet is already top line, so, next year some of the rookies will probably go else where but locally grown boys have an edge to stay with the Twins.