Rumor: Cardinals Announce They Will Be Sellers, Want Pitching

[Brock Beauchamp]

Cardinals President of Baseball Operations, John Mozeliak, said in an interview that the Cardinals will be sellers at the 2023 trade deadline with hopes of retooling for a 2024 and 2025 return to competitiveness.

Their focus will be on returns of young pitching, either cost-controlled MLB players or prospects in the upper minors.

The Cardinals have a slew of players on expiring deals, along with players under contract for longer including superstar sluggers Paul Goldschmidt and Nolan Arenado. It is unclear how interested St Louis is in moving long-term contracts but given their collapse this season, the right deal may be able to land anyone on the roster.

Who interests you from the St Louis roster and what would you be willing to give up in return?

View full rumor

[Cory Engelhardt]

I mean, Goldschmidt would be incredible. But I don't know that they would trade him or that he would even waive his no trade.

Jordan Hicks would be fun in the bullpen.

Tommy Edman could be a 3b option, at least until Lewis can play. I wouldn't mind that either.

[Dave Borton]

Cardinals can afford to rebuild. Attendance is averaging over 41,000, actually up a few hundred over 2022 despite a horrible year. Spoiled: been at Busch Stadium. A knowledgeable, loyal base, attending group.

Trades? Not interested. Going after Goldy or Arenado is a straw-man approach to fix fundamental problems. Would have to surrender too many prospects. Focus on 2024 and beyond.

[JD-TWINS]

SWR - Winder - possibly Varland………..this group doesn’t net much back to Twins!

Gotta hang on to Festa & Raya!!

Paddack may be a fit in a group trade - doubtful of his market value before getting some innings.

[JD-TWINS]

Goldschmidt for 2 years seems pretty reasonable for $26M/year.

Again, with Gray - Mahle - Kepler - Polanco - Gallo - Maeda gone in ‘24 we free up $65M from this year’s budget.

Plant Kirilloff in LF & Wallner in RF.

Lewis-Julien-CC with Goldschmidt, we’d (on paper) have the best offensive infield in the game. Jeffers at C.

Rotate Buxton in CF & DH with the expectation of 100 games.

Castro - Taylor - Farmer - Solano - Vazquez……a bunch of bench veterans ready to win immediately.

I would offer the SS we got from Miami & SWR & Winder & Moran.

[nicksaviking]

They also already said they won't trade Goldschmidt or Arenado, so this is strictly a sale of rental players. Most of whom I'd have no interest in. Jordan Montgomery being the exception.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

A year ago at the trade deadline, Jose Miranda was OPSing at .800 and it would have sounded foolish to suggest trading him, a young player on the rise. A year later, things look different. 

With that said, would Bailey Ober be a good trade piece to give up? I don’t know. The Cardinals would be interested, I would think.

It would be nice to see Gray, Lopez and Ryan all keep pitching at high levels in order to give up a rotation piece like Ober for a bat like Goldschmidt or Arenado. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

32 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Goldschmidt for 2 years seems pretty reasonable for $26M/year.

Again, with Gray - Mahle - Kepler - Polanco - Gallo - Maeda gone in ‘24 we free up $65M from this year’s budget.

Plant Kirilloff in LF & Wallner in RF.

Lewis-Julien-CC with Goldschmidt, we’d (on paper) have the best offensive infield in the game. Jeffers at C.

Rotate Buxton in CF & DH with the expectation of 100 games.

Castro - Taylor - Farmer - Solano - Vazquez……a bunch of bench veterans ready to win immediately.

I would offer the SS we got from Miami & SWR & Winder & Moran.

That sounds like a good offer from a Twins standpoint, but you always need to ask what it would look like if you were a fan of the other team. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

With that said, would Bailey Ober be a good trade piece to give up? I don’t know. The Cardinals would be interested, I would think.

I think Bailey Ober would be the Cardinals' first ask.

[Vanimal46]

Ober for Goldy is a good toss up. I think I would turn that down for the Twins… If the injuries are behind Ober, there’s nothing stopping him from ramping up to 180 innings per season. I really like his upside as a starter. 

[nicksaviking]

I think everyone is missing the part where they say Goldschmidt and Arenado aren't being traded.

They need pitching, and there's plenty available in free agency next year and they're trying to get some by trading rental players right now. They aren't tearing this down, they're just gearing up for next year.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I think everyone is missing the part where they say Goldschmidt and Arenado aren't being traded.

They need pitching, and there's plenty available in free agency next year and they're trying to get some by trading rental players right now. They aren't tearing this down, they're just gearing up for next year.

This. They aren't dealing one of the two players the Twins need.....move on. Nothing to see here.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

56 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

A year ago at the trade deadline, Jose Miranda was OPSing at .800 and it would have sounded foolish to suggest trading him, a young player on the rise. A year later, things look different. 

With that said, would Bailey Ober be a good trade piece to give up? I don’t know. The Cardinals would be interested, I would think.

It would be nice to see Gray, Lopez and Ryan all keep pitching at high levels in order to give up a rotation piece like Ober for a bat like Goldschmidt or Arenado. 

Good cheap young pitching is almost impossible to replace.  You can find quality position players much easier.  Ober is going to have a long leash.  It would not surprise me if the the Twins saw him as untouchable right now.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

20 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I think everyone is missing the part where they say Goldschmidt and Arenado aren't being traded.

Stop holding us to the standard of actually reading what we are commenting on.  That isn't how we do things...

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

9 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Good cheap young pitching is almost impossible to replace.  You can find quality position players much easier.  Ober is going to have a long leash.  It would not surprise me if the the Twins saw him as untouchable right now.

No I agree. Ober looks promising. But the Cardinals aren’t winning it this year and people always say every player has their price.. So if not Ober then Varland enters the conversation. (Assuming the Twins and Cardinals are talking)

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

7 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Stop holding us to the standard of actually reading what we are commenting on.  That isn't how we do things...

I mean are people even reading the thread title? It says the Cardinals are increasingly becoming interested in trading at this deadline, for pitching …

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I mean are people even reading the thread title? It says the Cardinals are increasingly becoming interested in trading at this deadline, for pitching …

but not trading the two hitters the Twins need....

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

40 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I think everyone is missing the part where they say Goldschmidt and Arenado aren't being traded.

They need pitching, and there's plenty available in free agency next year and they're trying to get some by trading rental players right now. They aren't tearing this down, they're just gearing up for next year.

You are probably correct about Arenado, I didn’t realize he had more years on his contract than he did (and year over year the salaries are de-escalating, so very team favorable).

but Goldschmidt is short, I’m pretty sure. 

I mean, this are the pieces every team will be asking about, not just the Twins. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

but not trading the two hitters the Twins need....

I’m not really following the Cardinals this year but I assume the hitters that the Twins want will be pretty close to the same hitters other teams would want. 

[nicksaviking]

15 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I mean are people even reading the thread title? It says the Cardinals are increasingly becoming interested in trading at this deadline, for pitching …

Yeah, too often the reading stops there.

Today - The part of the interview omitted from the above post:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/st-louis-cardinals

Of course, there are no bigger names the Cardinals could put on the trade market than their star corner infield tandem of Paul Goldschmidt and Nolan Arenado. Mozeliak declined to declare either player categorically untouchable but strongly downplayed the possibility of moving either. “I don’t have any intentions of trading anybody like them,” he said. “If you’re willing to listen on anything, you have to understand (anything’s possible), but I doubt that would happen.” As he subsequently noted, both players have full no-trade rights, and it seems very unlikely a St. Louis team gearing back up for 2024 would want to part with either of its top two position players regardless.

Friday

From St Louis beat writer Louis Gould

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/professional/mlb/cardinals/cardinals-at-the-break-what-lessons-from-disastrous-first-half-can-fix-flaws-for-2024/article_b1727806-219c-11ee-9012-070d5964bb94.html

They do not wish to divest themselves of their core, and already at least two teams have been told the Cardinals are not interested in trading outfielder Lars Nootbaar or Jordan Walker. The Cardinals are also not looking to shed salaries or jettison their high-cost stars, preferring to add pieces around cornerstones Nolan Arenado and Paul Goldschmidt for the coming season. Both have no-trade clauses, and Arenado said he’s not been approached.

Two weeks ago

Katie Woo of The Athletic

https://www.si.com/mlb/cardinals/news/could-cardinals-actually-trade-star-paul-goldschmidt-st-louis-insider-gives-update-pat3

"The concept has been floated around plenty: Goldschmidt, last year's National League MVP, a respected leader throughout the sport and a likely Hall of Famer, could be a potential trade candidate this summer. In theory, the idea makes sense. Goldschmidt's final year of his five-year, $130 million contract is next season. He will turn 36 this summer. The haul for Goldschmidt would be massive. The Cardinals could jump-start whatever degree of restructuring they feel necessary. 

"The reality? Not happening, and that's even without taking into consideration Goldschmidt's no-trade clause. As (John Mozeliak) stated, the Cardinals are avoiding a rebuild. They aim to contend next season. If that's the organization's goal, the last thing it needs is young, unproven talent. The Cardinals need experienced, established names to complement the young talent already rostered."

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I’m not really following the Cardinals this year but I assume the hitters that the Twins want will be pretty close to the same hitters other teams would want. 

I'm guessing the Cards deal a pitcher or three.....and not much else (they have some on expiring deals). I can't see either the first or third baseman being dealt. But, stranger things have happened.

[CRF]

I think we can all forget about Goldy or Nolie coming north...it's just not gonna happen. I'd be shocked if StL moves either of them anyway. They do have some good younger players on their roster though, and some good prospects in the minors. I wouldn't mind making a deal for either O'Neill, Gorman, Edman, Donovan, or Carlson. Gorman, Edman, or Donovan  would be a real nice gets. Luken Baker at their AAA team is a good 1B prospect. It depends on what they want for their guys, and there will be a lot of teams interested. I follow the Cards relatively closely, because one of my best friends is a huge fan, and I kind of like them too. Great fan base and St Louis is a great baseball city. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

52 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I think everyone is missing the part where they say Goldschmidt and Arenado aren't being traded.

They need pitching, and there's plenty available in free agency next year and they're trying to get some by trading rental players right now. They aren't tearing this down, they're just gearing up for next year.

In the next week or two, I think the Cardinals will realize that if they really want to compete in 2024, they're going to need to give up more than their expiring contracts to bring in enough pitching to make a difference.

[nicksaviking]

Just now, Brock Beauchamp said:

In the next week or two, I think the Cardinals will realize that if they really want to compete in 2024, they're going to need to give up more than their expiring contracts to bring in enough pitching to make a difference.

The Cardinals freely spend in free agency and this year's crop of usable free agents is almost entirely starting pitchers. They'll be in on most of the big names.

The Cardinals have had dozens of HOF/elite type players in the last two decades and haven't traded a single one since 2003.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, nicksaviking said:

The Cardinals freely spend in free agency and this year's crop of usable free agents is almost entirely starting pitchers. They'll be in on most of the big names.

The Cardinals have had dozens of HOF/elite type players in the last two decades and haven't traded a single one since 2003.

Correct. They will sign Nola and a backend guy......And promote some random player who will instantly be good. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

5 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

The Cardinals freely spend in free agency and this year's crop of usable free agents is almost entirely starting pitchers. They'll be in on most of the big names.

The Cardinals have had dozens of HOF/elite type players in the last two decades and haven't traded a single one since 2003.

I'm not saying they'll trade Goldschmidt or Arenado but they need a lot of pitching help. They should be open to the possibility of trading a longer-term veteran for pitching.

But given that I dislike the Cardinals immensely, I'm fine with them holding on to every aging, declining, expensive veteran they have on the roster.

[IndianaTwin]

25 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

You are probably correct about Arenado, I didn’t realize he had more years on his contract than he did (and year over year the salaries are de-escalating, so very team favorable).

but Goldschmidt is short, I’m pretty sure. 

I mean, this are the pieces every team will be asking about, not just the Twins. 

Nick's also correct about Goldschmidt. He has another year, and they are planning to compete next year. 

Their truly expiring contracts are six -- Wainwright, Montgomery, Flaherty, VerHagen, Stratton and Hicks. In order, that's a legend they won't trade, two starters we don't need, a below-average reliever on the IL and two guys pitching just under the level of Oliver Ortega's small sample size. If very cheap, sure, talk to them about Stratton and Hicks.

With their starters, they are a nice trading partner for somebody, but probably not the Twins.

 

If they are going to trade arbitration and pre-arb players, it's because they've got a glut of position players, perhaps even more than the Twins do -- DeJong, O'Neill, Edman, Carlson, Nootbaar, Gorman, Burleson, Walker, etc., with Winn and others on the way.

There's some really attractive pieces in there. Again, probably for another team. 

 

Frankly, St. Louis is probably a better match for Cleveland than they are for us. 

[nicksaviking]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Correct. They will sign Nola and a backend guy......And promote some random player who will instantly be good. 

They could certainly trade for pitching too, but it would likely be in the offseason, and they'd be trading their own prospects.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I could see them trading Goldy, but no idea who he would waive his no-trade for, and yeah I don’t think the Twins are a good trade partner. Maybe he ends up back in Arizona? 

[nicksaviking]

6 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I'm not saying they'll trade Goldschmidt or Arenado but they need a lot of pitching help. They should be open to the possibility of trading a longer-term veteran for pitching.

But given that I dislike the Cardinals immensely, I'm fine with them holding on to every aging, declining, expensive veteran they have on the roster.

That's their MO, the big name players leave or retire only when their contract is up. Then they sign or trade for more of course.

In a vacuum I could care less about speculating about players who surely won't move, but we've seen this game before. We discuss what it would take to trade for a big name player, then when that player doesn't get traded, a certain segment of the fanbase gets out the pitchforks and starts calling ownership and the front office a failure for not getting it done and the other posters 'apologists' when they point out it was never going to happen.