Please fire the entire coaching staff, except Pete Maki!!

[chpettit19]

20 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Right on point. This team isn't hitting well because we don't have enough good hitters, and  Buxton and Correa not hitting just turns a mediocre lineup into a bad one.  How do we get better? We might not be able to with the talent we have, but at least let's stop running out the same lineup hoping for a better result.  They've finally stopped playing Kepler, thank God, so let's finish the job by moving or releasing him.  Call up Wallner and play him. Move Gallo, call up Larnach and play him. The OF should be a combination of Buxton, Larnach, Wallner and Castro, with MAT playing twice a week. In the IF, Play Lewis, Julien, and Kirilloff every day. Sit Farmer - he's a 32 year old reserve for goodness sakes. Play Buxton in the OF so Solano, Julien, etc. can DH. 

Try SOMETHING to shake up this lineup. This is just too painful to watch.  

While I try to avoid the "Buxton in CF" stuff, I agree with this general take. We know who these guys are, especially the veterans. There's no reason to have Kepler sitting on your bench. None at all. This fake half-step is useless. Cut him loose and try to improve your team. Gallo makes too much so I doubt they cut him loose, so we need to hope he gets back to early season Gallo. I like Farmer, but Lewis needs to be in the lineup darn near everyday. Their sitting around and waiting for these guys to change the type of players they are is mind blowing to me.

[DJL44]

12 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, but it keeps getting shuttled back and forth from St. Paul in deference to the less talented veterans.

This is a fair point. They are convinced that the problem last season was that they didn't have enough depth and they lost because they had too many injuries. The front office tried very hard this offseason to make sure they have plenty of depth (at least among position players). This is why Larnach is stuck in AAA while Kepler continues to demonstrate he is not worth starting. It's behind some of their "load management" giving players who are performing well days off to make sure nobody gets injured. It keeps some of their worst players in the lineup more than they deserve.

Ultimately it speaks poorly of the front office that they're still trying to solve last season's problems. They are too slow to react to the current season. It takes them forever to finally cut loose underperforming players.

[Seth Stohs]

25 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Any word on whether people are considering Watkins as a future manager? He's well liked in the organization.

I don't think so. They're 100% with Baldelli... maybe if a new front office came in and wanted someone to finish a season. he's very smart. He's a baseball lifer. He provides so much to the club. Players definitely love him. 

[DJL44]

2 minutes ago, Seth Stohs said:

I don't think so. They're 100% with Baldelli... maybe if a new front office came in and wanted someone to finish a season. [Watkins]'s very smart. He's a baseball lifer. He provides so much to the club. Players definitely love him. 

I meant more people in other organizations.

[John Belinski]

Give a manager good players and any manager will win easily.  Give a manager average or below average players and the manager has to help the team win games. It just doesn't appear Rocco has helped players win games. Losing record in 1 run games, losing record in extra inning games and seems to have no clue on how to handle pitchers. In a weak division we are not even a .500 team. Fans can hope things get better, but without a leader this looks like another lost season.

[HokieRif]

On 6/10/2023 at 7:47 PM, Riverbrian said:

A long time ago... when I was 16. I had a part time job at a restaurant as a bus boy.

I had spilled some water while busing a table.  I did clean the water up but I didn't notice that water had spilled on to the seat. 

Unfortunately someone sat in the wet spot. 

Someone from that table demanded that I be fired. Loudly, in the middle of the restaurant in front of everyone. 

That person had never met me. 

As a 16 year old... I remember thinking that we should at least meet before such demands. 

 

I understand your point, but that was one evening... Imagine had you gone roughly .200 in all your busing opportunities over 73 evenings and had a particularly atrocious average during the evening rush, a lot of people would be wondering why you were still employed.  Then imagine if the manager did nothing to correct the problem (better training, different shift, position, etc), then those same complaints would elevate up to the managerial level.  Now imagine that 8 other employees were spilling water all over the place on a nightly basis, and the one guy who isn't spilling water gets pulled after an hour long shift when he was supposed to work 3 because the manager didn't like that he took too long to bus the last table, but otherwise the guy was doing a pretty good job and was just having a relatively off day.  THAT's what we're watching play out in front of us.  That's why the staff needs a shakeup.

[TwinsDr2021]

Haven't commented on this yet, but why are we giving Pete Maki a break?

Is the starting staff improving as the season goes, staying the same or getting worse?

I would say IMHO it is regressing. Gray ERA up innings down, Ryan the same, Lopez and Varland more of the same, Ober has been pretty consistent. How about the bullpen?

[SwainZag]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

No one is firing their manager from a first place team, even if they are below .500. 

I mean, I'm ready to shake things up, but you guys are going to have to wait to bang this drum in the off season.

Also, the young guys are doing pretty well, and I think those are the players who are most impacted by the coaches and managers. From the anecdotes I've always heard, veteran players tend to get to do their veteran player things, typically only getting instruction from coaches and managers upon their own volition. So I'd say gripes about how poorly the vets are playing, should be aimed at the front office, not the coaching staff. 

I will add, no manager/front office of a .500 team is going to get fired less than half way through the season, when their realistic expectation before the year was winning 85-88 games.  

Things are rocky right now, but unless they fall 10+ games under .500, I really don't see any mid-season changes, at least to the manager and front office.

[Schmoeman5]

5 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Haven't commented on this yet, but why are we giving Pete Maki a break?

Is the starting staff improving as the season goes, staying the same or getting worse?

I would say IMHO it is regressing. Gray ERA up innings down, Ryan the same, Lopez and Varland more of the same, Ober has been pretty consistent. How about the bullpen?

Agreed. Maki gets credit for the progress the SP made to start the season but none of the blame for the nightly implosion of the bullpen. The Twins have 1 reliable guy coming out of the pen. 2 if you count Stewart. But I'm not relying on him to be lights out just yet. 

[TwinsDr2021]

11 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

I will add, no manager/front office of a .500 team is going to get fired less than half way through the season, when their realistic expectation before the year was winning 85-88 games.  

Things are rocky right now, but unless they fall 10+ games under .500, I really don't see any mid-season changes, at least to the manager and front office.

Last year the Phillies fired Girardi on June 3 (22 - 29), Angles fired Maddon June 7th in the midst of a 12 game losing streak after starting the season 21 - 11.  Blue Jays fired Montoyo July 13th (46 - 42). The Rangers fired Woodward in August (51-63) this year first place 2nd best record in the American league.

So it does happen, doesn't mean the teams players better but it does happen.

[Schmoeman5]

Popcorn definitely needs to go. The Twins lost 3 of 4 vs Tigers 2 of 3 to the Senators when they played. And what sticks out to me in those series losses were the ability to just put the ball in play. That is almost non existent on a nightly basis for them. And not to beat a dead horse. But when Arreaz was here he was a .300 hitter. Now in Miami he's flirting with .400. Is Miami's hitting coach teaching new philosophy to a vet? Idk. But Kepler and Buxton and Correa have fallen dramatically. Miranda floundered out of the gate. The steadiest hitters played elsewhere last year. Castro Solano and Farmer. It can't all be a coincidence.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Popcorn definitely needs to go. The Twins lost 3 of 4 vs Tigers 2 of 3 to the Senators when they played. And what sticks out to me in those series losses were the ability to just put the ball in play. That is almost non existent on a nightly basis for them. And not to beat a dead horse. But when Arreaz was here he was a .300 hitter. Now in Miami he's flirting with .400. Is Miami's hitting coach teaching new philosophy to a vet? Idk. But Kepler and Buxton and Correa have fallen dramatically. Miranda floundered out of the gate. The steadiest hitters played elsewhere last year. Castro Solano and Farmer. It can't all be a coincidence.

Miami's offense has scored fewer runs than the Twins this year. Luis Arraez was hitting .362 on June 21st last year. It's not quite .400, but it's not some crazy difference either. Arraez was over .350 until July 9th last year.

[Schmoeman5]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

Miami's offense has scored fewer runs than the Twins this year. Luis Arraez was hitting .362 on June 21st last year. It's not quite .400, but it's not some crazy difference either. Arraez was over .350 until July 9th last year.

.350 isn't. 390. That's 40 point difference. And maybe Miami's offense has scored less runs. I'll bet the Tigers and Nationals have too.  And if the Twins put the ball in play 10 to 20 percent more they'd have more runs. And don't say that's unrealistic because their strike out rate is astronomically higher

[nicksaviking]

6 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

.350 isn't. 390. That's 40 point difference. And maybe Miami's offense has scored less runs. I'll bet the Tigers and Nationals have too.  And if the Twins put the ball in play 10 to 20 percent more they'd have more runs. And don't say that's unrealistic because their strike out rate is astronomically higher

But Arraez only hits singles and the Twins (still) can't get hits with men on base. Unless Arraez, the leadoff hitter, is supposed to be RBI king of the team, I don't think the Twins would be scoring that many more runs with him.

[Schmoeman5]

Just now, nicksaviking said:

But Arraez only hits singles and the Twins (still) don't get hits with men on base. Unless Arraez, the leadoff hitter, is supposed to be RBI king of the team, I don't think the Twins would be scoring that many more runs with him.

OK. Stick with the 10+ strikeout per game avg. That's working great. I'm talking about putting balls in play. Putting more balls in play will result in more of everything. Double plays. Sacrifice flys. Singles doubles pop outs. Whatever. But those are more productive in the long run than striking out.  That's the point. 

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

.350 isn't. 390. That's 40 point difference. And maybe Miami's offense has scored less runs. I'll bet the Tigers and Nationals have too.  And if the Twins put the ball in play 10 to 20 percent more they'd have more runs. And don't say that's unrealistic because their strike out rate is astronomically higher

My point is that there's no reason to think it's coaching. That was your question. "Is Miami's hitting coach teaching new philosophy to a vet?" If it's the hitting coach making the difference Miami would be outscoring the Twins, no? Why would his great philosophy only be improving Arraez?

Yeah, that's a 40 point difference, but it's not July 9th yet. My point was you claimed "when Arreaz was here he was a .300 hitter. Now in Miami he's flirting with .400." You're comparing his end of year stats to his June stats. I was providing context by showing that he was doing much better than .300 not only in June, but into July. We'll see where he ends up this year, but there's been nothing about his approach that has changed between his time here and his time there. He wasn't trying to launch HRs here or something. He's just been better this year.

[Schmoeman5]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

My point is that there's no reason to think it's coaching. That was your question. "Is Miami's hitting coach teaching new philosophy to a vet?" If it's the hitting coach making the difference Miami would be outscoring the Twins, no? Why would his great philosophy only be improving Arraez?

Yeah, that's a 40 point difference, but it's not July 9th yet. My point was you claimed "when Arreaz was here he was a .300 hitter. Now in Miami he's flirting with .400." You're comparing his end of year stats to his June stats. I was providing context by showing that he was doing much better than .300 not only in June, but into July. We'll see where he ends up this year, but there's been nothing about his approach that has changed between his time here and his time there. He wasn't trying to launch HRs here or something. He's just been better this year.

You cherry picked Arreaz but didn't comment on the 3 guys who played with other organizations last year who have been the Twins steadiest hitters. And Arraez is doing significantly better than when he was here. 

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, SwainZag said:

I will add, no manager/front office of a .500 team is going to get fired less than half way through the season, when their realistic expectation before the year was winning 85-88 games.  

I generally agree with the first part here, but who determines the "realistic expectations"?  And are preseason expectations really the main thing clubs should be judged against?  I'd also add that winning 85-88 games in a competitive division is a vastly different proposition than winning the same number of games against this historically bad division - it may literally be the worst division in the history of baseball.  I don't think this was anticipated in the preseason predictions. 

Not to mention the eye test - just watch this club play.  Does anyone think this is working? 

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

I generally agree with the first part here, but who determines the "realistic expectations"?  And are preseason expectations really the main thing clubs should be judged against?  I'd also add that winning 85-88 games in a competitive division is a vastly different proposition than winning the same number of games against this historically bad division - it may literally be the worst division in the history of baseball.  I don't think this was anticipated in the preseason predictions. 

Not to mention the eye test - just watch this club play.  Does anyone think this is working? 

Balanced schedule....

 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, HokieRif said:

I understand your point, but that was one evening... Imagine had you gone roughly .200 in all your busing opportunities over 73 evenings and had a particularly atrocious average during the evening rush, a lot of people would be wondering why you were still employed.  Then imagine if the manager did nothing to correct the problem (better training, different shift, position, etc), then those same complaints would elevate up to the managerial level.  Now imagine that 8 other employees were spilling water all over the place on a nightly basis, and the one guy who isn't spilling water gets pulled after an hour long shift when he was supposed to work 3 because the manager didn't like that he took too long to bus the last table, but otherwise the guy was doing a pretty good job and was just having a relatively off day.  THAT's what we're watching play out in front of us.  That's why the staff needs a shakeup.

All the bus boys are around .200 in their busing opportunities. The bus boys from the other restaurants are trying to knock the water carafes with a slices of lemon off your tray. 

But perhaps most importantly. The customer screaming for the head of a bus boy doesn't know what the bus boys do? 

 

[chpettit19]

41 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

You cherry picked Arreaz but didn't comment on the 3 guys who played with other organizations last year who have been the Twins steadiest hitters. And Arraez is doing significantly better than when he was here. 

Significantly better? 10 hits. That's what separates his current batting average this year vs his .362 average from last year on the same date. He has 255 ABs this year, and 102 hits. If he had 92 hits he'd have a .361 average. Yes, he's doing better, but suggesting he's some vastly different hitter is pretty extreme.

Ryan Jeffers is doing better this year. Didn't play for another organization last year. Kirilloff is doing just fine. Vazquez played for a different org last year (2 actually), and is doing worse this year. Castro played for a different org last year and was waived in the offseason while still having options left because he was so bad, but now he's one of our "steadiest hitters," and you want to make that about Popkins being bad? 

What argument are you trying to make? Solano came from another org and has been the same guy. Farmer came from another org, but has been slightly better here. Castro came from another org and has been significantly better. Vazquez came from 2 other orgs and has been significantly worse. MAT came from another org and has been the same guy as last year. Joey Gallo came from another org and has been the same guy after a hot start. What needle are you trying to thread here? 3 guys doing the same (Popkins hasn't ruined them, but hasn't improved them?), 1 guy doing slightly better (Popkins improved him?), 1 guy doing way worse (Popkins ruined him?), and 1 guy doing way better (Popkins is a genuis?). What are you trying to claim is happening with the 6 regulars that came from other orgs as it pertains to Popkins? I don't see the commonality you seem to see.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

I've been a Twins fan since 1986. This year's team inspired me to join TD. Can't recall a more underwhelming or disappointing Twins team - at least not in recent memory. Rocco needs to go. If you take away the mirage of 2019, his managerial resume speaks for itself. Anyone that wants to go out on a limb and defend him and/or his coaching staff - weird hill to die on.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Along with the horrendous offense, big indictment on Rocco is how this team deals with adversity. Was really evident against Detroit. A mistake is made - in the field or on the base paths - and it just gets compounded. Zero fight or toughness on this team.

[chpettit19]

14 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Why would you expect Gallo to revert back to beginning season Gallo, when season to date Gallo is Career to date Gallo? He’s performing exactly as he always has.

I didn't say I expected it, but hoped for it. Balanced over the the whole season to date, yes, he's at a pretty respectable OPS+, etc. But almost all of that was generated in a red hot April. In May and June he has an OPS well below his career norms. If he only keeps performing at May and June levels he is NY/LA Gallo, and that guy is unplayable. But they won't cut him loose with that contract. So we have to hope he gets back to being Texas Gallo like he was at the start of the year. He can't OPS in the 600s like he has been since May started.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

With all of that said about Rocco, the Twins allegedly have two superstars - Byron Buxton and Carlos Correa. At some point, your best players need to be just that - rise above it and get your team to follow. Cannot be more disappointed in both of them - especially Correa who has a reputation of being one of baseball's best leaders and culture builders.

[Schmoeman5]

17 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Significantly better? 10 hits. That's what separates his current batting average this year vs his .362 average from last year on the same date. He has 255 ABs this year, and 102 hits. If he had 92 hits he'd have a .361 average. Yes, he's doing better, but suggesting he's some vastly different hitter is pretty extreme.

Ryan Jeffers is doing better this year. Didn't play for another organization last year. Kirilloff is doing just fine. Vazquez played for a different org last year (2 actually), and is doing worse this year. Castro played for a different org last year and was waived in the offseason while still having options left because he was so bad, but now he's one of our "steadiest hitters," and you want to make that about Popkins being bad? 

What argument are you trying to make? Solano came from another org and has been the same guy. Farmer came from another org, but has been slightly better here. Castro came from another org and has been significantly better. Vazquez came from 2 other orgs and has been significantly worse. MAT came from another org and has been the same guy as last year. Joey Gallo came from another org and has been the same guy after a hot start. What needle are you trying to thread here? 3 guys doing the same (Popkins hasn't ruined them, but hasn't improved them?), 1 guy doing slightly better (Popkins improved him?), 1 guy doing way worse (Popkins ruined him?), and 1 guy doing way better (Popkins is a genuis?). What are you trying to claim is happening with the 6 regulars that came from other orgs as it pertains to Popkins? I don't see the commonality you seem to see.

Jeffers is hitting .225. Gallo is exactly what he was advertised, Vasquez did better in a good lineup..Kiriloff has been out the past 2 years and his dad is his hitting coach. Lewis hasn't played in 2 years. And yeah I'm suggesting it's on Popkins. Solano Castro and Farmer cast-offs or in the case of Farmer via trade hit best when putting the ball into play and using all fields. And that's what they're doing. Vs Buxton Correa Miranda and Kepler all pull happy. Correa and Miranda and Buxton and all hitters are better using the whole field. And if putting the ball in play leads to ONLY 10 extra hits guess what. They're not hitting in the low .200s like they are now. To suggest that nothing needs to change is ludicrous. I'll just cross my fingers and hope they improve. Got my horseshoe and rabbits foot too.

[MMMordabito]

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Jeffers is hitting .225. Gallo is exactly what he was advertised, Vasquez did better in a good lineup..Kiriloff has been out the past 2 years and his dad is his hitting coach. Lewis hasn't played in 2 years. And yeah I'm suggesting it's on Popkins. Solano Castro and Farmer cast-offs or in the case of Farmer via trade hit best when putting the ball into play and using all fields. And that's what they're doing. Vs Buxton Correa Miranda and Kepler all pull happy. Correa and Miranda and Buxton and all hitters are better using the whole field. And if putting the ball in play leads to ONLY 10 extra hits guess what. They're not hitting in the low .200s like they are now. To suggest that nothing needs to change is ludicrous. I'll just cross my fingers and hope they improve. Got my horseshoe and rabbits foot too.

Who suggested nothing needs to change? What's "ludicrous" is the stance that Castro (the cast-off) is magically hitting better here than he did in Detroit without it having anything to do with Popkins. "Best when putting the ball into play and using all fields. And that's what they're doing." is any interesting stance. Do we agree Farmer is doing better this year than he did in a Reds uniform? I mean the stats show that so I guess we should agree. Farmer has his highest pull% since 2019 this year, and lowest oppo% (according to baseballsavant and their fancy cameras that track every ball put in play). That's literally the opposite of your argument. You want to know about Castro's pull tendencies this year? 2nd highest of his career. The only year higher? 2020 when he had his only other good "year" in the majors. Also his lowest oppo% since 2020. 

Correa's oppo%? Highest since 2018, and 2nd highest of his career. Buxton's numbers? Lowest pull% since 2020, highest oppo% since 2020. Again, literally the opposite of your argument.

Maybe you should skip the horseshoe and rabbits foot, and actually look into what's happening instead of blindly making claims you can't back up. Yes, things need to change, but it doesn't seem that you have the best ideas on what needs to change. The argument that Popkins is at fault for the bad hitters, but has nothing to do with the good ones is ludicrous. Especially when one of your go to examples is Willi Castro. He literally got waived from one of the worst teams in the league because he couldn't hit, and now he's hitting, and your argument is that the team he couldn't hit for is the reason he's hitting well with his new team. That's a bold take.

[Schmoeman5]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

Who suggested nothing needs to change? What's "ludicrous" is the stance that Castro (the cast-off) is magically hitting better here than he did in Detroit without it having anything to do with Popkins. "Best when putting the ball into play and using all fields. And that's what they're doing." is any interesting stance. Do we agree Farmer is doing better this year than he did in a Reds uniform? I mean the stats show that so I guess we should agree. Farmer has his highest pull% since 2019 this year, and lowest oppo% (according to baseballsavant and their fancy cameras that track every ball put in play). That's literally the opposite of your argument. You want to know about Castro's pull tendencies this year? 2nd highest of his career. The only year higher? 2020 when he had his only other good "year" in the majors. Also his lowest oppo% since 2020. 

Correa's oppo%? Highest since 2018, and 2nd highest of his career. Buxton's numbers? Lowest pull% since 2020, highest oppo% since 2020. Again, literally the opposite of your argument.

Maybe you should skip the horseshoe and rabbits foot, and actually look into what's happening instead of blindly making claims you can't back up. Yes, things need to change, but it doesn't seem that you have the best ideas on what needs to change. The argument that Popkins is at fault for the bad hitters, but has nothing to do with the good ones is ludicrous. Especially when one of your go to examples is Willi Castro. He literally got waived from one of the worst teams in the league because he couldn't hit, and now he's hitting, and your argument is that the team he couldn't hit for is the reason he's hitting well with his new team. That's a bold take.

Castro Solano and Farmer were brought in as role players. The fact that they're playing just about everyday speaks volumes. And not due to injuries. And they have been the most consistent hitters. Farmer may have the highest pull rate in his career. I've seen him dump a lot of balls onto right field when he's in protect mode. Same for Solano. 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Schmoeman5 said:

Castro Solano and Farmer were brought in as role players. The fact that they're playing just about everyday speaks volumes. And not due to injuries. And they have been the most consistent hitters. Farmer may have the highest pull rate in his career. I've seen him dump a lot of balls onto right field when he's in protect mode. Same for Solano. 

You're arguing what? You are replying to a comment that has nothing to do with your reply......You're almost making his point for him....