Jump to content
  • Create Account

Front Page: Twins at Risk of Sinking to New Low with October Woes


 

 

Thing is though - by the time Duffey was brought in (both games) it was almost like the game had already spun out of control and was out of reach.

 

Bringing in Rogers with the bases loaded and nobody out, in the 3rd inning, already down 2-0....is that really the best use of Rogers? Even a solid outing by Rogers in that situation would still leave the Twins down 3-0 or 4-0 (as opposed to 7-0). So now you're down 4-0 and if you somehow come back to tie or take the lead, Rogers isn't there and you're watching Trevor May come in for 2 innings late in Yankee Stadium to close the door. Does that end well? Chances are it doesn't.

 

We knew pitching would be a problem. Everyone did. The Twins have been winning games with final scores of 9-7 all year long.

 

For the Twins to have any chance of winning the series (let alone the game) the offense is going to have to put up at least 8 runs. The offense scored 4 and 2 runs, respectively. There's simply no way this team can win games without more runs that that. Regardless of whether or not Rogers or Odorizzi were in the game or not.

 

The offense needs to score a bunch of runs. Period. Fair or not, it's on them to win this game and this series. Because the pitching staff is a lost cause, regardless of how they are managed.

Actually the game was 1 - 0 when Duffey came into pitch on Saturday. He gave up a Sac fly, single, hit a batter than a grand slam and boom 7- 0.

So depending on how tonight goes, the Twins could finish a playoff series and never use arguably their pitcher.

But they did use Littell, Stashak and Duffey twice in a 1 run game.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 146
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Dear Ownership   Free Agency begins 5 days after the WS. You need 2 starting pitchers better than Berrios.   Do you know what's in your wallet?!   Love, Any Future Season Ticket Holders

True, but he's WAY better.   I don't even need Cole, though. Find a way to acquire a good pitcher like Minor, retain Odorizzi, and the Twins are most of the way to a good rotation.   But fer chrissake

I don’t think I was this embarrassed for the team when they finished with 100 losses.   From top to bottom, everyone involved with this team should be afraid to show their face in public. Just awful.

Posted Images

I don't know what to think about this postseason so far. To me the #1 thing I and almost everyone else noticed, is that Rocco is getting schooled. And badly might I add. He really hasn't made a right decision yet. 

 

That said, our hitters have been as bad as the pitching has. The patience they displayed earlier on is gone. All of them, except Cruz, looked SCARED up there. Swinging at bad pitches, letting good pitches go, getting themselves out far too often. 

 

The pitching..... Uugh. It's been bad, real bad. Not playoff worthy in the least. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You're underrating Berrios. Do you realize just how good he was this season? The Yankees didn't have a single starter as good as he was this season.

 

Berrios, second starter? Yes, absolutely. But even if you pick up someone better than Berrios, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's better than what you picked up by season's end.

 

But aim, at the minimum, Berrios or better for a starting pitcher acquisition.

My guess is Berrios would be the 4th starter in Houston's post season rotation, the 3rd in NY's postseason rotation (4th if German doesn't get suspended), the 3rd or 4th in LA's postseason rotation, the 3rd in Washington's, the 3rd in Atlanta's, and the 2nd or 3rd in TB's.

 

 Again, what's the goal here? Win the ALC?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know what to think about this postseason so far. To me the #1 thing I and almost everyone else noticed, is that Rocco is getting schooled. And badly might I add. He really hasn't made a right decision yet. 

 

That said, our hitters have been as bad as the pitching has. The patience they displayed earlier on is gone. All of them, except Cruz, looked SCARED up there. Swinging at bad pitches, letting good pitches go, getting themselves out far too often. 

 

The pitching..... Uugh. It's been bad, real bad. Not playoff worthy in the least.

 

Give Polanco some credit too. Otherwise, yeah.
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

My guess is Berrios would be the 4th starter in Houston's post season rotation, the 3rd in NY's postseason rotation (4th if German doesn't get suspended), the 3rd or 4th in LA's postseason rotation, the 3rd in Washington's, the 3rd in Atlanta's, and the 2nd or 3rd in TB's.

 

 Again, what's the goal here? Win the ALC?

you could add that of the 8 starting pitchers on friday, he was someplace between 6 - 8th best.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

My guess is Berrios would be the 4th starter in Houston's post season rotation, the 3rd in NY's postseason rotation (4th if German doesn't get suspended), the 3rd or 4th in LA's postseason rotation, the 3rd in Washington's, the 3rd in Atlanta's, and the 2nd or 3rd in TB's.

 

 Again, what's the goal here? Win the ALC?

I'd take Berrios over Paxton and Tanaka so YMMV on this argument.

 

And Houston has a historically good starting rotation so aiming for that kind of improvement in a single season just isn't going to happen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hmmm. Not sure if you watched game 1, but the lefthander they threw out there was much more composed, had much better command, and struck out all kinds of Twins hitters. 

I watched the game. I saw that almighty lefty give up a few homers and a bunch of Twins hitters flail away like they'd never seen a major league pitcher before. Whereas the Yankees spit on every Berrios pitch that was even close to being out of the zone.

 

It's more than just the pitcher. The hitters have a role to play here, too. And the Yankees hitters flat-out beat the Twins hitters, despite the Twins hitters getting a few good pitches to knock out of the park (but always with no one on base because other hitters were swinging out of their shoes on bad pitches).

 

And DESPITE THAT, Berrios gave up all of one earned run while Paxton gave up three. BTW, Berrios struck out six. Paxton struck out eight.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Bringing in Rogers with the bases loaded and nobody out, in the 3rd inning, already down 2-0....is that really the best use of Rogers?

Game 2 was only 1-0 when Duffey entered.

 

While that's not the platonic ideal spot to use Rogers, it is probably better than using Duffey again less than 24 hours after he had to throw 25 high-stress pitches against the same Yankee hitters.

 

Heck, the first two batters due to face Duffey in that spot (Stanton and Torres) had walked and doubled against him the previous night. I really can't comprehend why we didn't go with a fresh arm there -- or just let Dobnak see if he can get another GIDP from Stanton.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Game 2 was only 1-0 when Duffey entered.

 

While that's not the platonic ideal spot to use Rogers, it is probably better than using Duffey again less than 24 hours after he had to throw 25 high-stress pitches against the same Yankee hitters.

 

Heck, the first two batters due to face Duffey in that spot (Stanton and Torres) had walked and doubled against him the previous night. I really can't comprehend why we didn't go with a fresh arm there -- or just let Dobnak see if he can get another GIDP from Stanton.

While I don't usually nit-pick Baldelli's decisions, he has not managed this series well. I would have gone to almost anyone in that situation, probably Graterol if you're that scared of burning your best pitchers early. More likely I would have gone to May as a middle ground.

 

The use of Arraez over Schoop in game one and the fact Rogers hasn't pitched at all is just straight-up bad management.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd take Berrios over Paxton and Tanaka so YMMV on this argument.

 

And Houston has a historically good starting rotation so aiming for that kind of improvement in a single season just isn't going to happen.

If only there had been an off season before this year, where they could have added a pitcher under control past this year that wasn't one of the worst pitchers in the game last year...

Link to post
Share on other sites

One and done is not successful.  Not winning at least one is embarassing.  I don't know why they didn't leave Berrios in longer.  Yes he was at 80+ pitches but I am pretty sure the outcome would have been different.  What are you saving is arm for Spring Training?   Not starting Odorizzi in game 2 unbelievable and Perez should be #3.  Gibson coming in????????????  Why did we get Romo if we aren't going to use him?   Relying on Duffey??????  

Edited by BBAM
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If only there had been an off season before this year, where they could have added a pitcher under control past this year that wasn't one of the worst pitchers in the game last year...

This argument is pretty tired, Mike. Most of us agree they didn't do close to enough this past offseason in regards to pitching, there's no need to keep hammering at the same point for 10 months.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You mean like the 3inning with the base loaded?

I hope you realized I was being sarcastic when I made that statement.  

 

Although I didn't see much of Friday's game, I remain confident that Berrios can become that ACE type pitcher the Twins badly need.  Like many, am disappointed he didn't dominate the Yankees Friday and pitch much deeper into the game.  Don't know why he didn't, as I don't know why he slipped so badly in August.  A true ACE can't do either.  Maybe he will get there next year.  

 

Doesn't mean the Twins don't need to find another #1 or ACE level arm for next year.  Where and how, not a clue, but that isn't my job.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

This argument is pretty tired, Mike. Most of us agree they didn't do close to enough this past offseason in regards to pitching, there's no need to keep hammering at the same point for 10 months.

Except that's why they can't fix the rotation in one year. They made this bed, I'm not going to let them off the hook for next year's rotation. Other people can say it can't be done, but it it can't be done, that's on them

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at some comments here, I almost wonder if many Twins fans would have preferred an 82-82 season and missing the playoffs over a 101 win season and getting swept by the Yanks in embarrassing fashion? I'm not being sarcastic and don't judge anyone's personal opinion.

 

It's kinda like the prettiest girl at school accepting your invite to the prom (yay!) only to dump you immediately after the night is over (embarrassing!).  Would you rather have just not gone to the dance at all? Or does the experience build character?

 

Of course....from a fan's perspective, we don't need any more "character building experiences". We've had plenty of those moments and it's been a long time since anything went our way.

 

For the record, I'd prefer to make the playoffs and get swept rather than finish in the doldrums.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The use of Arraez over Schoop in game one and the fact Rogers hasn't pitched at all is just straight-up bad management.

I don't know about Arraez -- Schoop's looked pretty bad in his PAs too. I'm willing to give some leeway there.

 

But going to some lengths to protect your 3 bullpen arms in game 1, then starting Dobnak and *still* ignoring those 3 pen guys and turning to a used Duffey first in game 2 -- that combination of moves is a real head-scratcher to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about Arraez -- Schoop's looked pretty bad in his PAs too. I'm willing to give some leeway there.

 

But going to some lengths to protect your 3 bullpen arms in game 1, then starting Dobnak and *still* ignoring those 3 pen guys and turning to a used Duffey first in game 2 -- that combination of moves is a real head-scratcher to me.

Arraez may have cost them that game. While Cron SHOULD have caught that ball, Arraez’s throw was unnecessarily bad, probably because he stood on second flat-footed when he should have been moving.

 

And against a LHP, I go with Schoop 100% of the time. He mashes lefties and is a much better defender.

 

And if you don’t use Schoop in that game, why is he even on the roster? This team is supposed to be all about the numbers, yet they seem to make decisions that have nothing to do with numbers on a regular basis.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Except that's why they can't fix the rotation in one year. They made this bed, I'm not going to let them off the hook for next year's rotation. Other people can say it can't be done, but it it can't be done, that's on them

 

They need to get over this playoff funk obviously because my goal is to win the WS as I'm sure it is for everyone in the organization.

 

But they won 101 games this year while prioritizing hitting over pitching last off season, so it seems they're on the right track as far as improving the quality of the team goes. Baldelli made some questionable bullpen calls but the organization has hired front office and coaches that are versed in contemporary baseball strategy and eager to try new things to create advantages for the team.

 

I don't want to get swept by the Yankees, but I think an awful lot of people are blinded by two games and not seeing the giant and completely unexpected strides made this year.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You can't say they are making calls to favor the Yanks. They have gotten healthy while we have gotten stupid (Pineda) and injured. The hotter and healthier team wins but making poor pitches to a guy who hadn't played in a month (Encarnacion) in game 1 and starting a rookie with 3 games of experience (game 2) is not a formula for winning- no matter how good or bad we hit. Now bat Arraz leadoff and let's get this party started tonight.

No, they are not making calls that favor the Yanks...but they do want them in the playoffs...I would too if I were them.  It's a business and when the Yankees are in the playoffs, it's good for business.

 

I didn't like starting Arrias in game 1 and I thought it cost us 3 runs.  Would have changed the game, but probably not the outcome.  Tonight is throw everything but the kitchen sink at them.  No sense saving Rogers to close out a game.  We might need him in the 3rd inning.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Arraez may have cost them that game. While Cron SHOULD have caught that ball, Arraez’s throw was unnecessarily bad, probably because he stood on second flat-footed when he should have been moving.

 

And against a LHP, I go with Schoop 100% of the time. He mashes lefties and is a much better defender.

 

And if you don’t use Schoop in that game, why is he even on the roster? This team is supposed to be all about the numbers, yet they seem to make decisions that have nothing to do with numbers on a regular basis.

A very odd decision indeed. It made no sense at the time, and less as the game went on. Mind. Boggling.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They need to get over this playoff funk obviously because my goal is to win the WS as I'm sure it is for everyone in the organization.

 

But they won 101 games this year while prioritizing hitting over pitching last off season, so it seems they're on the right track as far as improving the quality of the team goes. Baldelli made some questionable bullpen calls but the organization has hired front office and coaches that are versed contemporary baseball strategy and eager to try new things to create advantages for the team.

 

I don't want to get swept by the Yankees, but I think an awful lot of people are blinded by two games and not seeing the giant and completely unexpected strides made this year.

I'm not sure what that means re my post. It's been a very good year. I was responding to a post that said pitching couldn't be fixed in one year.....I was pointing out that that was on their decision to bring in Perez instead of a good pitcher. If they keep the budget level, and don't sign Perez, they could have traded for or signeda pitcher, and still had these hitters. They choose not to. That's all that post said, nothing at all about the overall season.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...