Article: NYY 14, MIN 1: What Did We Expect?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I had hoped I wouldn't say this in 2018...but after Tampa and after last night in NYC... "When is the draft?"

Dunno. This is a team that previously took two of three from the reigning World Series champs and split a series against Cleveland.

 

It's a rough patch but probably just that... a rough patch for a team that is likely to finish with a win total somewhere in the 80s.

[AceWrigley]

 

You don't even need one.    Back in the day I liked Crede, Thome and Konerko.  I even liked Ozzie more than Gardy.   Still hated the White Sox.

Yeah.  Ozzie and A.J. I loved those guys. I hated those guys. I loved playing the Sox and beating them, if for no other reason than to shut The Hawk up.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

 

 

It's a rough patch but probably just that... a rough patch for a team that is likely to finish with a win total somewhere in the 80s.

Thanks Brock. I needed that.

[gocgo]

We are in a bit of a funk...normally, a rain out is just what the doctor ordered, but that is the last thing this team needs.

[RedBull34]

 

Disappointing loss.

 

Maybe the Twins can keep the Yankees under 10 runs today.

 

Oh, and it's getting harder for me to dislike the Yankees, because it appears they've got some pretty decent guys on their team.

 

Though, for some reason, Brett Gardner rubs me the wrong way.

 

Is one player enough to make it reasonable to loathe a team?

If it's the Yankees, Yes.

[Mike Sixel]

I expected a competitive game. This team is better than this. They are how many years into this rebuild? I expected better, much better.

[IndianaTwin]

 

Yeah.  Ozzie and A.J. I loved those guys. I hated those guys. I loved playing the Sox and beating them, if for no other reason than to shut The Hawk up.

 

And there's the rub... 

 

Though there's been a few players I wasn't a fan of over the year (plus Ozzie), my primarily dislike of the Sox has been because of Hawk, and he has less than 20 games left. What's a person to do when the new guy is actually quite enjoyable to listen to? 

 

 

 

 

[Taildragger8791]

I'm growing more concerned with the offense than the pitching at this point. I always expect our pitching to be chaotic with spurts of competency, but this offense was supposed to carry the team yet they're only averaging 4 runs per game. They're in the bottom half or third of the league in most metrics. They have plenty of guys capable of exploding, and if they get in sync it can be pretty awesome. But outside of Mauer, Dozier, and Kepler there isn't anyone giving the consistently productive at-bats needed to build rallies.

[Taildragger8791]

I don't mind the Mauer bunt if he were trying to steal a hit, but I sure wish he was capable of just pulling a ball to that wide open right field instead. He's too talented and vital to the lineup to be sacrificing in the first inning against a powerful offense. I also don't see the point in playing small ball in front of Sano and Rosario. Dozier is capable of stealing a base or scoring from first with the way those two swing anyways, but they're also likely to give an unproductive out which means Mauer's sac became a wasted out.

[Mr. Brooks]

They could have DFA'd Kinley at that point instead, though, to keep Chargois.

Well sure, they could have DFA'd any player on the 40 man roster, including Kinley, yes.

I didn't think the post I was responding to meant it in such an abstract, indirect manner such as that though.

 

If they were going to DFA him before he even threw a pitch for the team though, they wouldn't have selected him in the first place.

[Mr. Brooks]

Also, he didn't get it past the pitcher. That matters. It self evidently wasn't a gimme, because he'd have been on first base if it was.

If it's a gimme, then yeah take it, I guess. But if not, then let's swing away early in a game we know we'll need a bunch of runs to win.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Well sure, they could have DFA'd any player on the 40 man roster, including Kinley, yes.

I didn't think the post I was responding to meant it in such an abstract, indirect manner such as that though.

 

If they were going to DFA him before he even threw a pitch for the team though, they wouldn't have selected him in the first place.

Well, they were both RH relievers on the fringe of the roster. I think they are directly comparable without much abstraction.

 

I too did not believe the Twins would cut Kinley before he threw a spring training pitch -- but then again, I didn't expect them to add 7 MLB players on guaranteed contracts this winter either. I might have re-evaluated the Rule 5 commitment at that point.

[Mr. Brooks]

Well, they were both RH relievers on the fringe of the roster. I think they are directly comparable without much abstraction.

 

I too did not believe the Twins would cut Kinley before he threw a spring training pitch -- but then again, I didn't expect them to add 7 MLB players on guaranteed contracts this winter either. I might have re-evaluated the Rule 5 commitment at that point.

Well we may not have known they'd sign 7 players, but I'm guessing the FO had a fairly clear outline of player types and roles that they intended to sign. They wouldn't have known which guys they'd be able to get, of course, but they probably had a good idea of how many.

 

I'm also going to have to see Chargois stay healthy for a significant stretch of the season before I give them any flak about that decision.

It's still April, I'm sure we'll see Chargois on the DL at some point.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Mr. Brooks

[wsnydes]

 

 What's a person to do when the new guy is actually quite enjoyable to listen to? 

Don't listen to him and hate the Sox anyway!  

[Otto von Ballpark]

Well we may not have known they'd sign 7 players, but I'm guessing the FO had a fairly clear outline of player types and roles that they intended to sign. They wouldn't have known which guys they'd be able to get, of course, but they probably had a good idea of how many.

Actually I misspoke -- counting Anibal Sanchez (who was on the 40-man roster), it was 8 additions, although by that point Pineda was on the 60-day DL.

 

I'd guess they may have expected at least 1 or maybe 2 of their 7-8 acquistions to take a non-guaranteed deal, which changes the roster analysis.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'm also going to have to see Chargois stay healthy for a significant stretch of the season before I give them any flak about that decision.

It's still April, I'm sure we'll see Chargois on the DL at some point.

I am not giving them too much serious flak at this point, but it was a curious decision at the time, and it has become even more curious since.

[zenser]

The ump behind home was brutal.  I am not in favor of an automated strike zone but after last night I would listen a little harder.  Busenitz had Stanton struck out on a pitch that was closer to the middle of the plate than it was to a corner.  Stanton got a hit and it open the gates further.

[mikelink45]

It is the entire bullpen, not just Kinley that is a problem.  It is the fact that over half our lineup is below 250 in batting and we have 62 BB and 166 Ks.  We have a team issue and the blow up in game one of the series simply serves to draw attention to what is really needed to succeed. 

[h2oface]

 

Most of our players look glazed over when we are in NY.  For the life of me, I have no idea why Joe would bunt in the first inning.  I have no idea why anyone would do that unless they are Phil Rizzuto, Luis Aparicio, or Maury Wills....Not sure I can recall the last time he bunted for a hit and besides, he has to come into that band box thinking to drive the baseball.  He conceded the at bat right there and that started the game on its course.  

 

I really don't want to hear "if he bunts for a hit it's a good bunt"

That is a poor mindset for Mauer to have, imo

 

I totally agree. Perplexing, especially after Tampa Bay.

[h2oface]

 

They didn't choose Kinley over Chargois. They chose Kinley over Bard and Burdi. Chargois DFA was much later, to make room for a different player.

 

I don't see it that way. It is all part of the whole process. At the time the FO tried to sneak Chargois off the 40-man, they could have let Kinley be returned, already, to make the needed space. So they did still choose Kinley over another system player on the edge of the show. Chargois was not the only choice available to make space.

 

Note: didn't see the other replies until after I posted this. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by h2oface

[h2oface]

 

Mauer was simply trying lay down a surprise bunt - the 3rd baseman was waaaay back there. He just didn't get it past the pitcher.  If Joe gets on there, he's a genius. So can we please stop making this 14-1 blowout the "Joe Mauer Bunt Game" already? We've got a lot of players to worry about. Joe Mauer isn't one of them.

 

Joe has gone 3 for 23 in the last six games, and dropped .114 in average. But I agree, why worry, eh?

[ewen21]

 

Mauer was simply trying lay down a surprise bunt - the 3rd baseman was waaaay back there. He just didn't get it past the pitcher.  If Joe gets on there, he's a genius. So can we please stop making this 14-1 blowout the "Joe Mauer Bunt Game" already? We've got a lot of players to worry about. Joe Mauer isn't one of them.

No, he isn't a genius because I give him less of a chance of getting on base via a bunt than he would just standing up there with the bat on his shoulder looking for a walk.  I don't like anyone bunting in the first inning especially Mr. 2,000.  He is supposed to be the best hitter on the team and he is the guy with the longest tenure.   By bunting in that situation he lets the pitcher off the hook.  He also guarantees that he won't hit a ball that travels more than 50 feet.  Nothing smart about that unless he is a very skilled bunter and he is most certainly not.

 

In general it is unsound for a lumbering first baseman to bunt in that situation.  Add to it the fact that Joe has been on the losing end a billion times at Yankee Stadium.  His season ended there three different times and we seem lose there 90% of the time.  The place is a band box.  What about beating the shift by pulling the ball down the left field line?  Small ball NEVER has worked against the Yankees.  You would think Joe'd understand that.

 

 

 

[ewen21]

 

Joe has gone 3 for 23 in the last six games, and dropped .114 in average. But I agree, why worry, eh?

We can be specific in this case.  He bunted in a situation where he had no business doing so.  I don't like the mindset out of him there.  He isn't Luis Aparacio.  He is a BAD bunter.  

 

TO anyone saying he's a genius for trying this, please get back to me on how many bunt hits he actually has in his career.  Do that then re-assess the strategy

[rv78]

The whole team is playing like sheet except for ... Dozier and Berrios. Glad to know that the Team has no intention of keeping Dozier around after this season. Too bad Berrios can only pitch every 5th day. NO production from half your lineup and hit and miss production from the other half, plus only 1 good starter and no bullpen will get you 100 losses again.

[Taildragger8791]

 

In general it is unsound for a lumbering first baseman to bunt in that situation.  Add to it the fact that Joe has been on the losing end a billion times at Yankee Stadium.  His season ended there three different times and we seem lose there 90% of the time.  The place is a band box.  What about beating the shift by pulling the ball down the left field line?  Small ball NEVER has worked against the Yankees.  You would think Joe'd understand that.

 

And this team is not equipped to win with small ball anyways. Too many low contact hitters, not a lot of speed with Buxton out, and hardly anyone these days can lay down a good bunt. Mauer's best skill is avoiding outs and giving the run-producers behind him an opportunity, which is something they need in order to maximize the chances of a big hit from the free-swingers brigade of Sano/Rosario/Morrison. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Taildragger8791

[AlwaysinModeration]

The ump behind home was brutal. I am not in favor of an automated strike zone but after last night I would listen a little harder. Busenitz had Stanton struck out on a pitch that was closer to the middle of the plate than it was to a corner. Stanton got a hit and it open the gates further.

Absolutely. Odorizzi had a clear strike out on Hicks to end the first before the third run scored.

[ewen21]

 

And this team is not equipped to win with small ball anyways. Too many low contact hitters, not a lot of speed with Buxton out, and hardly anyone these days can lay down a good bunt. Mauer's best skill is avoiding outs and giving the run-producers behind him an opportunity, which is something they need in order to maximize the chances of a big hit from the free-swingers brigade of Sano/Rosario/Morrison. 

We aren't going to bunt our way out of this funk in NY.  Asking guys like Mauer, Sano, Morrison, almost anyone makes no sense.  I bet it would take a whole lot of attempts for any of them to lay down a successful bunt and in the process they'd get behind on the count, or pop up or screw up in some way because they don't know how to do it effectively.

 

Have we learned nothing from the station to station ball Gardy would have us play?  THat just doesn't work here.  Maybe MAYBE if you are playing a weak National League team, but sure heck not here.  THat has been proven over and over

[h2oface]

I love a bunt into the shift. Easy pickin's, even for a slower runner. But this one in the first inning? If it is game 7 of a playoff, and you just want to get a run in in the first, no problem. But this was not the case in game one of the 4 game at the beginning of the year. 

 

Too bad it didn't work, and Mauer got a single instead of a sac bunt. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by h2oface

[David HK]

 

Dunno. This is a team that previously took two of three from the reigning World Series champs and split a series against Cleveland.

 

It's a rough patch but probably just that... a rough patch for a team that is likely to finish with a win total somewhere in the 80s.

The 1980's?

 

Hopefully not the early part of that decade.....

 

[Tomj14]

 

Lets just say I have $5 with a friend saying that Judge, Didi, Stanton and Sanchez will be in the top 10 in the American league in homers after this series.

Stan and Sanchez only need another home run and I am up $5.