Can we please move on from Chris Gimenez already?

[howeda7]

I'm sure he's a great guy in the clubhouse and it's great that he took the ball a few times. But he hits .190 and is average (at best) defensively. Meanwhile, Garver has been overdue for a call up for a month. I know everyone here already know this, but can anyone who carry's the FO's water tell us what the holdup is? 

[mikelink45]

He has a Cleveland pedigree and so far I see that has a lot of weight with the FO.  Garver deserves a MLB place, but then he did last spring too. 

[Roaddog]

If he was superior defensively, I could live with him. But he's not.

[Monkeypaws]

Tough call - his intangibles are probably off the charts. Just wait until either Rochester is done, or September.

 

Garver will get his due. Very good prospect.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I don't mind Gimenez as a backup. Did we find out what was going on that inning?

[huhguy]

10000 percent agree!

[h2oface]

Garver is not getting any younger. I hope they don't wait until he is 30.

 

I can't believe, even with all his time on the DL this year, that Stuart Turner is still on the Reds active roster with his 47 at bats in 25 games with 3 walks... he did hit his first homer on aug 9. They must really see something ready to blossom, eh? 

[Danchat]

Garver really needs to be on this team whether Gimenez is on it or not, and after today's game, I think the Twins would be upgrading their backup catcher situation. I just wish it would happen sooner than later, Garver ain't getting any younger.

[Thrylos]

Garver's age should not matter.  He is 26, and he will be under Twins' control for all his prime years (until age 32 or 33 depending on whether he is called up this season.)

 

Gimenez has a .719 OPS, .308 wOBA, and 89 wRC+ vs LHPs for the season, so he is doing his job with the bat, and if Molitor just keeps him hitting against LHPs, he is fine.  Most of the defensive metrics out the (DRS, rSB, inside edge) have him as pretty much average catcher.  Bad days happen. 

 

He is not part of the problem this season.  The Twins have bigger fish to fry, esp. in their pen.

[drjim]

If they waited this long they'll wait another 3 weeks. He might even get a game or two behind the plate.

[yarnivek1972]

Gimenez shouldn't be hitting 6th, even against LHP. He also had a horrendous day behind the dish. But IMO the team has bigger issues than the back up catcher.

 

Miguel Sano for one. He's kinda turning into Mark Reynolds with a little batter batting average. He needs to cut down on the strikeouts if he ever is to become a truly elite hitter. In another thread it was noted that in terms of WAR, he ranks 7th among AL third basemen. That's basically average. That's sobering. If this is the guy that is going to carry the offense for the next round of "glory days", he needs to step it up considerably. He is certainly still young enough to do that, but IMO his offensive game this year is basically the same as last year. Little, if any improvement

 

I don't want to make this thread about Sano. Just pointing out there are bigger fish to fry. I do think Garver should be up, at minimum as an extra reserve. Yes, the pen got a little taxed this weekend and some guys (including the manager) are still trying to figure out their roles and settle into them. My point is that the Twins still don't need 8 relievers IMO. They DO need another bat. Especially a right handed one.

 

And no, I don't think having Garver up as a reserve will hurt his development. With Castro signed through 2019, the most he's going to catch the next couple years is 60-70 games a year anyway most likely. It's not like he's 23. The Twins need to utilize his position flexibilty and his bat to help the MLB team for these final 6 weeks of the season.

[Thrylos]

 

Miguel Sano for one. He's kinda turning into Mark Reynolds with a little batter batting average.

 

Sano has 2.5 fWAR so far, projects to 3.9 for the full season, .363 wOBA and 126 wRC+,  and is 2-3 years away from reaching his prime.  Mark Reynold's had a single season of fWAR > 2 (career best 3.3).  He averaged 1.1 fWAR, .341wOBA, and 105 wRC+.

 

So Sano this season is having a close to Reynolds' best season (3.3 fWAR, .381 wOBA, .127 wRC+). 

 

And Sano has not reached his prime yet.

 

Sano is the Twins' best player.  Period.

[yarnivek1972]

Sano has 2.5 fWAR so far, projects to 3.9 for the full season, .363 wOBA and 126 wRC+, and is 2-3 years away from reaching his prime. Mark Reynold's had a single season of fWAR > 2 (career best 3.3). He averaged 1.1 fWAR, .341wOBA, and 105 wRC+.

 

So Sano this season is having a close to Reynolds' best season (3.3 fWAR, .381 wOBA, .127 wRC+).

 

And Sano has not reached his prime yet.

 

Sano is the Twins' best player. Period.

Like I said, I don't want to make THIS thread about Sano. I posted in a Sano thread a bit ago. If you want to make your case there, I'll respond there.

[DJSim22]

I'd bet money Garver will be up Sept. 1st.  He could surprise, or he could show everyone he's a fringe MLBer like Granite did. 

 

Giminez does remind me how I miss the .191 fan club though.

[h2oface]

 

Sano has 2.5 fWAR so far, projects to 3.9 for the full season, .363 wOBA and 126 wRC+,  and is 2-3 years away from reaching his prime.  Mark Reynold's had a single season of fWAR > 2 (career best 3.3).  He averaged 1.1 fWAR, .341wOBA, and 105 wRC+.

 

So Sano this season is having a close to Reynolds' best season (3.3 fWAR, .381 wOBA, .127 wRC+). 

 

And Sano has not reached his prime yet.

 

Sano is the Twins' best player.  Period.

 

Sano's OPS is now in the .800's and dropping. I hope our best players get better, and we can claim at least one that has an OPS in the .900s, and hopefully becomes an elite player that is in the 1,000s. At least 2 of these guys were a supposed lock for this to happen. Maybe it will. I can't blame anyone for expecting and hoping for better. (Hell, the Dodgers have 4 in the .900s and one just into the 1.000s! - I'm just asking for ONE - at least right now)

[beckmt]

Granite is a fine 4th outfielder.  Do not prefer him over any of our outfield starters.  I also am in the club that wants Garver up.  It is unlikely he will be here before mid September unless Rochester misses the playoffs.  Need another bench bat and player that can play multiple positions.  

[drjim]

Granite is a fine 4th outfielder. Do not prefer him over any of our outfield starters. I also am in the club that wants Garver up. It is unlikely he will be here before mid September unless Rochester misses the playoffs. Need another bench bat and player that can play multiple positions.

Garver will be up September 1 at the latest. Rochester playoffs won't stop that, especially with the Twins competing for the playoffs.

[Old Twins Cap]

Time for Gimenez to hit the DL with a bad thigh.

 

Twins need offense and defense from a back-up catcher; they are getting neither.

 

If clubhouse presence is so important, they have a word for that:  coaching.

 

His ABs right now are cringe, cringe, back to the bench.

[Shaitan]

His avg is offensive (see what I did there), but he has tolerable OBP skills for a back-up C.

 

While I'm not impressed, I'm fine with him holding down the role until Sept. call-ups.

[PDX Twin]

 

Time for Gimenez to hit the DL with a bad thigh.

 

Or, after that horrendous inning today, bad eyesight!

[curt1965]

Twins can do whatever they want with Garver-they're paying the salaries. But then no BS by the front office or TD posters saying they're trying to win this year!

[howeda7]

 

Tough call - his intangibles are probably off the charts. Just wait until either Rochester is done, or September.

 

Garver will get his due. Very good prospect.

I think my sarcasm meter is broken. How 'off the charts' do they have to be to make up 70 points in batting average we can probably gain with Garver? 

[howeda7]

 

Garver's age should not matter.  He is 26, and he will be under Twins' control for all his prime years (until age 32 or 33 depending on whether he is called up this season.)

 

Gimenez has a .719 OPS, .308 wOBA, and 89 wRC+ vs LHPs for the season, so he is doing his job with the bat, and if Molitor just keeps him hitting against LHPs, he is fine.  Most of the defensive metrics out the (DRS, rSB, inside edge) have him as pretty much average catcher.  Bad days happen. 

 

He is not part of the problem this season.  The Twins have bigger fish to fry, esp. in their pen.

They can walk and chew gum at the same time. And if it was 1 game a week, that would be one thing. But really, there's no reason Garver shouldn't be up here starting against all lefties. 

[jimbo92107]

Garver must come up soon. The Twins desperately need to find more guys that can apply pressure in every way. Garver is about equal with Gimenez behind the plate. But with the bat, Garver applies more pressure than either Gimenez or Castro. I can see keeping an experienced vet like Castro as your first catcher, but his backup should be better with the bat than Gimenez. 

[The Wise One]

 

I'm sure he's a great guy in the clubhouse and it's great that he took the ball a few times. But he hits .190 and is average (at best) defensively. Meanwhile, Garver has been overdue for a call up for a month. I know everyone here already know this, but can anyone who carry's the FO's water tell us what the holdup is? 

Perhaps you can tell me why none of the ranking services put Garver on their list. What are the wise guys of the scouting services miss?

[twinssouth]

Garver is not getting any younger. I hope they don't wait until he is 30.

 

I can't believe, even with all his time on the DL this year, that Stuart Turner is still on the Reds active roster with his 47 at bats in 25 games with 3 walks... he did hit his first homer on aug 9. They must really see something ready to blossom, eh?

 

 

 

Agree, Turners defense is unreal. I thought Twins screwed up not keeping both Garver and Turner and wasn't surprised when Reds selected Turner in Rule 5. They know the Twins would take him back in a heartbeat. He's far superior to Gimenez. He calls a great game and you wouldn't have had 3 passed balls. Saw him play no. of times at Chatt and was the field general, always in charge and man can he gun down a runner.

[Oldgoat_MN]

I'm starting to wonder if Garver isn't terribly flawed in some way that we don't know about. He is on no one's prospect list even though he has an OPS of >.900 as a catcher. I initially wrote if off to the FO liking 'their' guys, but Giminez has had one good month (June) this year and absolutely fell off the table in July (.436 OPS) and is doing even more poorly in August (warning: SSS). One would think even this front office would try Garver unless there was some flaw we can't see.

 

If it wasn't for Twins Daily I would have never heard of Garver. Not a lot of chatter about him in the other baseball stuff I read. Maybe this time it's not about the FO loving 'their' guy.

 

But I'd sure like to see for myself in MLB.

[yarnivek1972]

Perhaps you can tell me why none of the ranking services put Garver on their list. What are the wise guys of the scouting services miss?

They probably feel he's too old to be considered a prospect. They aren't wrong. Doesn't mean he can't be a contributor at the MLB level. The Twins won't know until they let him play.

[Doomtints]

Gimenez almost blew the game for the Twins, but he certainly blew the game for Santana regardless.

 

Everyone has bad days, but yes -- it's not like the Twins do not have other options. If they are keeping him around simply because he can pitch, that's the wrong reason.

[Doomtints]

 

I'm starting to wonder if Garver isn't terribly flawed in some way that we don't know about. 

 

I would not read into this very much. Gee was held down in a bizarre manner. So were Polanco and Kepler, both were left with no options by the time they finally were starters which shackled the roster, yet both put up solid numbers in the minors. Vargas is still being bounced around whether he is slumping at that moment or not.

 

One thing I have learned is that we can't read into how the Twins org treats people in the minors or even how they treat rookies. I put this on Molitor as I don't recall seeing this before he was managing. I have no clue what Molitor looks for in a young player, but performance seems to be secondary. Where Gardenhire sometimes put too much faith in young guys, only to be disappointed and bench them, Molitor is reluctant to give anyone a chance to start with.