Kintzler for 2017?

[DocBauer]

Believe me, I'm as surprised by this idea as you. But it may not be as crazy as you think.

 

I have advocated during all the Ervin Santana trade discussion that he is better than any FA starting pitching option listed as being a FA option for next offseason. Further, his contract is in line with what you would expect, and not exorbitant. And while this team is still in rebuild mode, there are some very nice, very young pieces in play, with more to come. But with the exception of Berrios, our top pitching prospects are in AA, and one would assume, rightly so, that they are all at least half a season away. And I've argued the Twins may be better off in the long run to keep Santana as a sort of solid, veteran anchor for 2017 to help lead the rotation. (At least for half the season)

 

I've been thinking a lot about this in regard to next year's bullpen as well. I've made mention before that while the team has some solid pieces in place in Rogers, Pressly, Tonkin, probably Chargois, (maybe May but he should first be made a SP again), we're still waiting on some other young arms, and it might be a smart move to pick up a veteran arm to help the backend of the bullpen, at least initially. Instead of simply thrusting someone in to the closer role to begin the season, or holding open auditions, perhaps the Twins might find someone like a Latroy Hawkins, someone at the end of his career, but coming off a solid season, or perhaps good half season before tiring, to help close out games early. Possibly be a trade flip mid year.

 

But I have to say, the way he has surprisingly pitched and embraced the closer role the second half of this season, I have to wonder if bringing back Kintzler may be the answer. There is no concrete evidence he will maintain his solid work. But there is no concrete evidence he will implode either. It would figure he'd be a relatively cheap veteran option who seems comfortable with the Twins, and could help pave the way for someone like Chargois to gradually slide in to the closer role.

 

What do you think?

[PseudoSABR]

I'm pretty sure he's arb eligible for the last time, so he'll be under team control, and be back next year.  I imagine the Twins will do just as you suggest.  (Perhaps you're advocating against trading him either in August or the offseason?)

[Halsey Hall]

Kintzler should be in the plans, as Perkins shouldn't be.

[Shaitan]

As long as he's cheap and willing to accept a demotion from the closer role, absolutely.

[nicksaviking]

I don't really buy into Kintzler's success. I wouldn't give him away, but I really hope the Twins aren't going to put a ton of faith in him being a back of the bullpen guy again next year. So if another team closer to competing next year sees him as a missing link, I'd move him. These guys are such a crap shoot.

[Danchat]

I would be fine with Kintzler coming back for 2017. He shouldn't be handed the closer job, as he'll likely regress. But it'd be great if he could add some much-needed depth to the pen.

[ashbury]

Kintzler has been fine. Coming into the season I didn't expect that to be the case, but as opposed to some of the dumpster-dive projects we've seen, he actually had some record of MLB success in past years, so it might not be a fluke.

 

I think a guy like Kintzler elicits a negative reaction more that he's a symbol of the overall method of obtaining him, than of his actual performance. It's a time- and resource-consuming method, tying up multiple 40-man roster spots and then taking until June or so to find the one or two guys who'll really pan out, that even when it works produces fairly weak results in terms of leading to better days.

 

Every team makes minor bullpen signings in the off-season, so I'm not saying the Twins shouldn't do it. It just seems like they pin more hopes on the process than other teams do.

 

And as I look back to the disastrous 9 games that started this lost season, the bullpen problem wasn't with the flotsam and jetsam signed in the offseason, but Fien and Jepsen and Perkins and May, the guys who were viewed as the sure things. The Brownian motion among the signings seemed to have settled down during Spring Training, as planned.

 

So yeah, it worked. Pay the man, and move on to other strategic decisions for 2017.

[Heezy1323]

Kintzler has been fine. Coming into the season I didn't expect that to be the case, but as opposed to some of the dumpster-dive projects we've seen, he actually had some record of MLB success in past years, so it might not be a fluke.

 

I think a guy like Kintzler elicits a negative reaction more that he's a symbol of the overall method of obtaining him, than of his actual performance. It's a time- and resource-consuming method, tying up multiple 40-man roster spots and then taking until June or so to find the one or two guys who'll really pan out, that even when it works produces fairly weak results in terms of leading to better days.

 

Every team makes minor bullpen signings in the off-season, so I'm not saying the Twins shouldn't do it. It just seems like they pin more hopes on the process than other teams do.

 

And as I look back to the disastrous 9 games that started this lost season, the bullpen problem wasn't with the flotsam and jetsam signed in the offseason, but Fien and Jepsen and Perkins and May, the guys who were viewed as the sure things. The Brownian motion among the signings seemed to have settled down during Spring Training, as planned.

 

So yeah, it worked. Pay the man, and move on to other strategic decisions for 2017.

I always enjoy good vocabulary usage. I'm not sure I've ever seen the term 'Brownian motion' used relative to baseball. Well done!

[jorgenswest]

His ability to get a ground ball is valuable. Probably more valuable trying to put out a fire in the middle of the game than closing, He is also efficient enough with his pitch count to go a few innings. The Twins should plan for him to be in the pen and they also need to find their next closer.

[Riverbrian]

 

Kintzler has been fine. Coming into the season I didn't expect that to be the case, but as opposed to some of the dumpster-dive projects we've seen, he actually had some record of MLB success in past years, so it might not be a fluke.

 

I think a guy like Kintzler elicits a negative reaction more that he's a symbol of the overall method of obtaining him, than of his actual performance. It's a time- and resource-consuming method, tying up multiple 40-man roster spots and then taking until June or so to find the one or two guys who'll really pan out, that even when it works produces fairly weak results in terms of leading to better days.

 

Every team makes minor bullpen signings in the off-season, so I'm not saying the Twins shouldn't do it. It just seems like they pin more hopes on the process than other teams do.

 

And as I look back to the disastrous 9 games that started this lost season, the bullpen problem wasn't with the flotsam and jetsam signed in the offseason, but Fien and Jepsen and Perkins and May, the guys who were viewed as the sure things. The Brownian motion among the signings seemed to have settled down during Spring Training, as planned.

 

So yeah, it worked. Pay the man, and move on to other strategic decisions for 2017.

I agree with you completely.

 

Ryan and his staff have always done a decent job of finding serviceable flotsam and jetsam floating about the place. I hope the new GM can continue to do that.

 

While I am loving the performance of Kintzler as CLOSER. I am still bothered that we actually needed him to be the CLOSER.

 

You are correct... Our bullpen problem was at the top. Terry Ryan blew this one badly. Perkins was horrible in the 2nd half… Jepsen historically spent his career as an occasional set up role guy, on the fringes of high leverage situations with other teams… Trevor May is too young to make a call on so nobody should bank on Trevor May with just a couple of months of pen experience.

 

 

Terry Ryan should have supported the young talent that almost made the playoffs last year with two elite bullpen arms that could have been insurance for Perkins, Pushed Jepsen down a peg or two or even allowed May to have a serious shot at starting.

 

Not addressing the top of the pen was a dice roll with bad odds IMO.

With a young core of players that are trying to learn how to win together.

 

A Bullpen is a great way to support that learning to win.

 

With a Starting Rotation of Guys who are mid-level at best… complete games were going to be hard to come by… An elite bullpen was going to be necessary.

 

So Yeah… I love that the job that Kintzler is doing… But I absolutely hate that he had to do it.

With all of that said…

 

I agree with you once again. PAY THE MAN!!! His Whip is under 1.00.. He has converted 11 out of 12 save opps.

 

Just don’t go into 2017 thinking that Kintzler is your closer and there is no need to aim higher.

[TheLeviathan]

We should be trying to trade him.  Aggressively.

 

But if we can't find anything, then we should bring him back.

[mikelink45]

Let's look at his past performance.  We got enamored with Jepsen when he came in and outperformed his previous stats.  The next year we got back to reality.  I expect similar with Kinzler.  He is not the solution, but maybe one of the young arms could be.  However, the players you list as being good are not late inning ready.  Lets hope one of the other minor leaguers rises to the top or Chargois rounds into the pitcher he was in the minors. 

[biscuit]

Kintzler seems to always be a single or away from losing a ballgame.  He doesn't fit what we should expect from a closer.  Sadly, any more, neither does Perkins.

[Riverbrian]

 

We should be trying to trade him.  Aggressively.

 

But if we can't find anything, then we should bring him back.

 

I'm with ya but I'm not sure he will return enough considering that he was a freebie acquisition. 

 

Therefore... I'd be penciling him into the 2017 bullpen with a role TBD. 

[kab21]

 

We should be trying to trade him.  Aggressively.

 

But if we can't find anything, then we should bring him back.

These kind of suggestions make me laugh.

Kintzler is a 32 yr old RP that was cut a year ago and doesn't strike anyone out. He is having a fine season but his trade value is minimal. Like Abad minimal.

 

Just like Fien you bring him back. Nobody should expect much but hopefully he can be a solid pitcher for another year.

[Mr. Brooks]

These kind of suggestions make me laugh.

 

Kintzler is a 32 yr old RP that was cut a year ago and doesn't strike anyone out. He is having a fine season but his trade value is minimal. Like Abad minimal.

 

Just like Fien you bring him back. Nobody should expect much but hopefully he can be a solid pitcher for another year.

If you can get a similar return as Abad got, I think you take it in a heartbeat and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

That would be a phenomenal return, IMO, and I doubt anyone here is suggesting we try to get more.

[Rosterman]

Kintzler has that ground ball availability, which is valuable.

 

The Twins have a solid core, but no one really standing out - Rogers, Pressly, Tonkin are fine, but not the base.

 

But it won't happen totally in 2017. But if things go right, the Twins bullpen of the future, at least by 2018, will contain Hildenberger, Burdi, Jones, Reed, Bard, Chargolis, Melotakis. Not sure who the closer candidate will be.

 

In reserve the Twins will still have WImmers (if they keep him 40-manned), O'Rourke, Baxendale, and I would see Duffy moving to the bullene over May, at least for the shortterm.

 

You have to like the next generation of Peterson, Landa and Curtiss at Ft. Myers.

[TheLeviathan]

 

These kind of suggestions make me laugh.

Kintzler is a 32 yr old RP that was cut a year ago and doesn't strike anyone out. He is having a fine season but his trade value is minimal. Like Abad minimal.

 

Just like Fien you bring him back. Nobody should expect much but hopefully he can be a solid pitcher for another year.

 

What makes me laugh is the notion you'd reject an Abad-like return for him. 

[DocBauer]

To his credit, Ryan did a really good job of finding useful pieces on minor league and small ML contracts. Not just for the pen, but some useful reserve pieces as well. But I completely agree he blew it the past two seasons on either counting on those guys, expecting the young bullpen arms to arrive more quickly than they have, or both.

 

Abad I felt good about. Kintzler I didnt. But he has really surprised and run with the opportunity. Could he go all Jepsen on us next season? Absolutely. But it doesn't mean he will. I still like the idea of a veteran in the pen to help provide experience and an "anchor" or sorts. This reduces pressure on the younger guys to have to come industry close immediately. And I'm not guaranteeing Kintzler will continue to pitch this well. I'm just saying, while Chargois and others are being groomed, and we await the impending arrival of other strong arms, said veteran would be a nice addition. But instead of seeking out a veteran FA on a limited deal, maybe near the end and looking for that one more season or so in the sun, maybe the Twins already have that temp guy.

[Riverbrian]

 

These kind of suggestions make me laugh.

Kintzler is a 32 yr old RP that was cut a year ago and doesn't strike anyone out. He is having a fine season but his trade value is minimal. Like Abad minimal.

 

Just like Fien you bring him back. Nobody should expect much but hopefully he can be a solid pitcher for another year.

 

I'd take a Pat Light for Kinzler.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

If every season the team was rebuilding we could take a couple minor league deal relievers and flip them into guys picked around 30-40 in a past draft at the trade deadline....I'd call that a damn fine strategy.

 

Hanging on to Kintzler if such offers are out there would be head-slap stupid.

[ashbury]

I always enjoy good vocabulary usage. I'm not sure I've ever seen the term 'Brownian motion' used relative to baseball. Well done!

You've heard of Physics For Poets?^* Well, I guess I was a poet for physicists, there.

 

^{* _{Language in this link NSFW}}

[jorgenswest]

I think the Twins would have taken Pat Light also. I doubt they saw that kind of offer. Abad is left handed. Abad had previous good seasons. Both make him more valuable.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think the Twins would have taken Pat Light also. I doubt they saw that kind of offer. Abad is left handed. Abad had previous good seasons. Both make him more valuable.

I think Kintzler is at least Abad's equal in terms of "previous good seasons."

[jorgenswest]

I think Kintzler is at least Abad's equal in terms of "previous good seasons."

You are right. I am in the Bay Area and recalling Abad's terrific ERA two years ago as a key member of Oakland's bullpen. I still think lefties bring more value. Maybe his success in an AL play off race two years ago adds a little.

[TheTruth]

Look up 'Journeyman' in the dictionary. You will find a picture of Kintzler. He is a few bad innings from being out of the major leagues.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, I don't see why you don't bring him back at this point. He's cheap. Just don't assume he's your best RP. 

[Vanimal46]

This sounds eerily similar to justifying Casey Fien coming back at the start of this season. He's cheap! They say. Fien did okay for us! They say. I think we can aim higher for a relief pitcher this off-season. Let Kintzler go. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

This sounds eerily similar to justifying Casey Fien coming back at the start of this season. He's cheap! They say. Fien did okay for us! They say. I think we can aim higher for a relief pitcher this off-season. Let Kintzler go. 

 

Well, sure, if they are going to go out and promote the young guys and sign like 3 FAs, sure......how likely is that?

 

the plan has to be to cut the guy if he turns into Boshers or Fien....and to have RPs in AA and AAA you are wiling to call up and let pitch.

 

Like, why is Wimmers not here, since they need a long man? Mind. Boggling.

[Hrbek70]

Let's look at his past performance.  We got enamored with Jepsen when he came in and outperformed his previous stats.  The next year we got back to reality.  I expect similar with Kinzler.  He is not the solution, but maybe one of the young arms could be.  However, the players you list as being good are not late inning ready.  Lets hope one of the other minor leaguers rises to the top or Chargois rounds into the pitcher he was in the minors.

 

Kinzler is not Jepsen, Jepsen is not Kinzler