Article: May’s Mentality Much Needed In Pen

[alarp33]

 

They should do what they think will win the most games in 2016.  

 

2017 and beyond should come well behind that in any team list of priorities, pretty much always IMO.

 

If winning the most games in 2016 was the teams top priority, they would not have ignored the bullpen all offseason.  Right or wrong, it clearly is not the top priority

[tobi0040]

 

I suppose that is reasonable. I guess for me I've moved on and would rather look at Berrios as the next man up instead of May. I don't see anything wrong with having a younger upside guy like May you can trust in the bullpen. It's certainly possible that May is the most trustworthy option out there if Jepsen's 2nd half was an aberration similar to Suzuki's All-Star 1st half a couple years ago..  

 

The frustration is this was a man made issue.  We should not have woke up in mid-March and said, we need May in the pen because nobody there can strike anyone out.

[howieramone2]

 

There's certain "takes" that are so off base its better ignoring.  

 

 

No one was surprised by the news this Spring, but I think with Duffey looking so bad it's reasonable to bring up again why was May not an option.  

May was an option, he just wasn't the winner.

[tobi0040]

 

If winning the most games in 2016 was the teams top priority, they would not have ignored the bullpen all offseason.  Right or wrong, it clearly is not the top priority

 

Offseason plan.

 

Step 1.  Trade Milone for prospects.  Or package him and Hicks and see what type of catching that fetches us.

 

Step 2.  Move May to the pen.

 

Step 3.  Sign a guy like Steve Cishek to the pen (basically makes what Milone did).

 

I think that is a very simple plan to win more games in both 2016 and 2017.  And keep the higher upside arms pitching 200 innings a year.

[tobi0040]

 

May was an option, he just wasn't the winner.

 

If I am not mistaken, he was pitching better than two guys that were still in the hunt when he was told he was in the pen.

[Kavan]

 

Sounds to me like an awfully good problem to have! If May turns into a big asset at the back end of the bullpen, and they have enough quality depth in the rotation so as not to need him there... what the hell are we complaining about?

 

Having 'too many' SP options is indeed a good problem. The solution to which is maximizing the aggregate value you can extract from your options. I think the point is that May is perhaps the best starting pitcher on the 25 man roster. You could take any of the starting 5 and turn them into a quality RP. Swapping one of Nolasco or Milone for May means more innings for the better pitcher, meanwhile Nolasco or Milone could tack on another 2 or so MPH and be an effective RP.

 

 

[howieramone2]

 

 

If winning the most games in 2016 was the teams top priority, they would not have ignored the bullpen all offseason.  Right or wrong, it clearly is not the top priority

Of course winning games in 2016 is the top priority. They did not ignore the bullpen in the offseason, they just didn't do what you wanted them to. The bullpen will be much improved this season due to our depth and by 2017, I wouldn't doubt we have power arms to deal. I would be very surprised if our favorite team ever signs any additional decline phase pitchers in free agency.

[howieramone2]

 

 

If I am not mistaken, he was pitching better than two guys that were still in the hunt when he was told he was in the pen.

SSS

[tobi0040]

 

Of course winning games in 2016 is the top priority. They did not ignore the bullpen in the offseason, they just didn't do what you wanted them to. The bullpen will be much improved this season due to our depth and by 2017, I wouldn't doubt we have power arms to deal. I would be very surprised if our favorite team ever signs any additional decline phase pitchers in free agency.

 

Our bullpen was 23rd in ERA, even worse in k's last year.  We went out and signed four guys on minor league deals.  I had not heard of any of them.

 

I am not sure on what planet this constitutes action to improve a pen.  Especially since Terry Ryan called it a priority.

[tobi0040]

 

SSS

 

Huh?  You are saying it was a competition and he lost, but then it was a sample size issue?

[Vanimal46]

 

The frustration is this was a man made issue.  We should not have woke up in mid-March and said, we need May in the pen because nobody there can strike anyone out.

I'd argue that your timing is a few months off. We woke up on November 2nd and said, we need May in the pen because nobody there can strike anyone out. Certainly explains the lack of activity to address the bullpen all winter long. 

[USAFChief]

 

If winning the most games in 2016 was the teams top priority, they would not have ignored the bullpen all offseason.  Right or wrong, it clearly is not the top priority

You'll get no argument from me about not addressing the bullpen this past winter.  I wanted them to add at least one quality arm from outside the org.

 

However, if anything, moving May to the pen actually DOES indicate 2016's win total is a high priority.  They just should have done more.

[Kwak]

Eliminating his slider to enhance his strikeouts?  The slider is a strikeout pitch.  It is often the #1 pitch for a relief pitcher.  At the very least it serves as a change-of-pace pitch to complement a fastball.

 

Judging from May's one inning against Tampa we realize that strikeouts aren't everything!  May recorded three K's, but surrendered two runs.  The winner is decided by which team records the most runs not the most strikeouts.

[laloesch]

 

May after 25 starts is a 4, and probably our 6th or 7th best starter at this point in time. Sano is 20-25 errors waiting to happen at 3B.

 

 

pleasee,,,,,

[laloesch]

 

Eliminating his slider to enhance his strikeouts?  The slider is a strikeout pitch.  It is often the #1 pitch for a relief pitcher.  At the very least it serves as a change-of-pace pitch to complement a fastball.

 

Judging from May's one inning against Tampa we realize that strikeouts aren't everything!  May recorded three K's, but surrendered two runs.  The winner is decided by which team records the most runs not the most strikeouts.

 

 

WTH are the Twins doing?  Are they insane?  Eliminating two quality pitches from a guys repertoire.  It's like shoving a square peg into a round hole. If you want a two pitch or less reliever see  Duffey and possibly Meyer.   Are the Twins FO brass that dumb?

[dxpavelka]

I would hope that guys like Meyer, Oliveros, Tonkin, Burdi, Chargois, Peterson & Jones would fill that need out of the pen sooner rather than later.

[Rosterman]

ANy of the rotation is tradeable. Especially at their prices if they show signs of pitching well. More teams would rather have an extra year of a guy (Santana, Hughes) then lose them right away to free agency. Depends on what the Twins DO have in the pipeline.

 

Also, Gibson is currently a highly tradable commodity. Is he worth more to the Twins as he gets more expensive entering arbitration? Can he be repalced by Berrios, Duffey or the next round.

 

I would rather see Ryan pull the plug and trade a Santana or Hughes if the return was especially good when they are on an upswing, rather than wait and see what happens next.

 

And, if there is any life of breath in Nolasco, he will be traded for pretty much anything this summer...if someone comes a knocking. Not that Nolasco doesn't have life. He is a solid pitcher when healthy, but would truly be expendable and replaced by up-and-comers if the need arose, I would think.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I would hope that guys like Meyer, Oliveros, Tonkin, Burdi, Chargois, Peterson & Jones would fill that need out of the pen sooner rather than later.

You might need to update the list from last year, Oliveros and Jones are no longer in the Twins org. (I admit Jones might come back, although it sounds like the Brewers are setting up to stash him on the DL as much as they can.)  Signs point to Tonkin joining them in a week or so.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

ANy of the rotation is tradeable. Especially at their prices if they show signs of pitching well. More teams would rather have an extra year of a guy (Santana, Hughes) then lose them right away to free agency.

Huh?  You don't see a lot of mid-tier guys traded, particularly not on multi-year deals.  They can be replaced every winter, either with other FA or internal options (just as you recommend for the Twins).

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Eliminating his slider to enhance his strikeouts?  The slider is a strikeout pitch.  It is often the #1 pitch for a relief pitcher.  At the very least it serves as a change-of-pace pitch to complement a fastball.

 

Judging from May's one inning against Tampa we realize that strikeouts aren't everything!  May recorded three K's, but surrendered two runs.  The winner is decided by which team records the most runs not the most strikeouts.

 

Perhaps it's not May's K pitch... 

[TheLeviathan]

We could use the same mentality in the rotation which, as you may know, pitches far more innings.

 

This team cornered itself and people are rushing to justify it. Ugh.

[Platoon]

Why would Ryan say anything about the previous years when he was, I assume, asked about the lack of strikeouts last year?

Whether Ryan was being intentional or obtuse, discussing SO rates for the Twins, and ignoring their historical levels is similar to blaming a specific iceberg for the demise of the Titanic! Actually both problems have been around long before the incident in question!

[Linus]

WTH are the Twins doing? Are they insane? Eliminating two quality pitches from a guys repertoire. It's like shoving a square peg into a round hole. If you want a two pitch or less reliever see Duffey and possibly Meyer. Are the Twins FO brass that dumb?

It sounds to me that May is deciding his pitch selection....

[nicksaviking]

I didn't realize he ditched the sinker and slider, did he do that last year, and was it common knowledge?

 

If not, they could have perhaps kept that out of the scouting reports and let teams figure that out for themselves.

[Vanimal46]

 

We could use the same mentality in the rotation which, as you may know, pitches far more innings.

This team cornered itself and people are rushing to justify it. Ugh.

I agree that the team has cornered itself, but what were they supposed to do? They're locked into Santana, Hughes, Nolasco, and Gibson for better or worse. I didn't agree with bringing Milone back, but there's some infatuation with having a left handed pitcher on staff... Where's the opportunity for May to be a starter?  

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I agree that the team has cornered itself, but what were they supposed to do? They're locked into Santana, Hughes, Nolasco, and Gibson for better or worse. I didn't agree with bringing Milone back, but there's some infatuation with having a left handed pitcher on staff... Where's the opportunity for May to be a starter?  

They're not "locked in" to Nolasco, if this spring's competition is to be believed.

[Vanimal46]

 

They're not "locked in" to Nolasco, if this spring's competition is to be believed.

As a pitcher on the MLB staff, he absolutely is locked in... Unless there's been some development of another team wanting him for a bucket of sunflower seeds. 

[Kwak]

 

Perhaps it's not May's K pitch... 

 

 

It sounds to me that May is deciding his pitch selection....

How many quality pitches does May have?  I don't recall May using a split-fingered FB or a curve.  Yet there are an abundance of posters screaming that May belongs in the rotation!  based on what evidence--a one-pitch pitcher?  His Pelfrey-ish statistics from 2015?  His BP stats from 2014?  Give May credit for intelligence--he would not eliminate quality pitches from his repertoire.  

[jimbo92107]

I hate that they're doing this to Trevor May AGAIN, but he really is a valuable piece in the bullpen. What I'm hoping is that at some point this season one or more of the top minor league relievers will be so hot that the FO can't keep them down on the farm, easing the need in the pen for May.

 

Unfortunately, if a starter gets injured or completely flops, the first one to take their place will probably be Duffey or Berrios, not May. The confluence of events for May to get a starter roll seems very unlikely. Injuries, flops, and rising stars in AAA. All three would be needed. 

[HitInAPinch]

 

There is 0 correlation between "MiLB starter prospects" and "Trevor May's long term best spot".  They could 5 high end prospects at AA knocking on the door, and Trevor May still holds more value as a good 200 inning starter than he does as a reliever.  That value may be to another team, but it does not change the fact they are devaluing their own asset. 

Nonsense.  Planning for the future is a part of running any business.  And right now, you personally liking it or not, the starting rotation is full and there are one or two MiLB pitchers who show some promise.  Right now, for the Twins, that's May in the bullpen bridging the gap between starter and closer and, potentially, from Perkins.