Stick a fork in Hunter, he is done.

[nicksaviking]

 

Hunter was a 0.0 WAR player last year, and is a 0.0 WAR player this year. If that isn't "done" I don't know what is.

 

Not to defend the Hunter signing (this club has no clue how to rebuild) but if we got rid of 0.0 WAR players, would we be able to field a team? According to Fangraphs WAR, that still makes Hunter one of the top 9 batters on the team, in fact he's only a couple good games out of 2nd behind the WARtastic Shane Robinson.

 

In 2014 Fangraphs had 9 Twins more worthless than Hunter and BBR has 13. 

0.0 is pretty darn acceptable for this franchise.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Not to defend the Hunter signing (this club has no clue how to rebuild) but if we got rid of 0.0 WAR players, would we be able to field a team? According to Fangraphs WAR, that still makes Hunter one of the top 9 batters on the team, in fact he's only a couple good games out of 2nd behind the WARtastic Shane Robinson.

 

In 2014 Fangraphs had 9 Twins more worthless than Hunter and BBR has 13. 

0.0 is pretty darn acceptable for this franchise.

 

that might explain why they keep losing 90 games.

[Jham]

 

Parade of minor leaguers?

 

For a rebuilding team, they have promoted almost no one at all the last few years. that's, you know, part of the problem.......

 

Seriously?  We've almost run out of guys to promote.  We're back to giving Hicks a fourth chance.  Rosario got himself suspended.  Buxton hurt himself in his first game back after hurting himself.  Hick's hitting ability has receded faster than his hairline.  Chris Hermann is actually on the team.  Arcia is actually on the team.  Colabello, Parmalee, and Benson were all given ample opportunity.  Ben Revere was called up mid-season, ran with it, and returned fair trade value.  We gave guys opportunities who earned them whether they were a prospect or not, and and now we've ran out.  I am sure Ryan knew he was overpaying for Hunter.  What choice did he have?  Can you imagine what the thread would be if we HADN'T signed another outfielder and Hicks had continued his record-breaking career of offensive futility.  And if you think Hick's MLB walk rate is sustainable given his utter inability to hit, then I just so happen to have a bridge for sale!  

 

[DaveW]

I would gladly have Hicks taking licks then Hunter. At least with Hicks they would finally know if he is a long term fit or not. Hunter for a FACT is not a long term fit.

[bird]

 

Fair points. I don't really view it as a parade of prospects, others might disagree. I do think looking at guys that came up and failed is something I wasn't thinking of.

 

And, it was about a parade of prospects, not about veterans added to the roster......those are two different discussions.

 

Jham was talking about Hunter vs. another Collabello/Parmelee type of "parade", and he favored Hunter.

 

You altered the discussion to make an inaccurate claim that the Twins had promoted hardly any prospects in the past few years, which you put in the context of the "rebuild". Adding veterans and prospects are sensibly part of any rebuild discussion. The term parade is irrelevant but the difference between the introduction of hardly any prospects over a few years versus introducing 15 of them within the past 2-3 years is massive.

[nokomismod]

Sorry this is probably not the time to or the place, but wouldn't it be nice to have Nelson Cruz at this point?

[Vanimal46]

'This post is unfair to a guy that is a class act.'

 

-Torii is a class act? Really? That's EXTREMELY debatable.

 

'Torii has been a proven winner everywhere he played  in his career'

 

-Torii has played on some good teams.  He's been fortunate that way.  

 

'He will make a huge difference in the development of our younger players'

 

-There's no proof this is true, regardless of the narrative this team has pushed. It certainly isn't fact. And, on top of that, a few of the guys he's supposed to mentor aren't even here yet.

 

'that is why he was signed.'

 

- Signed to sell tickets to people with fond memories of his glroy days with us.  If he was only signed to mentor kids, they should have offered him a coaching gig, not 10M.

 

Very similar to Kevin Garnett "mentoring" all of those young Timberwolves players by playing in 1 game and maybe being on the bench for 5 games. We love our veteran mentors in Minnesota

[twinsnorth49]

 

I would gladly have Hicks taking licks then Hunter. At least with Hicks they would finally know if he is a long term fit or not. Hunter for a FACT is not a long term fit.

I know what you mean and I fully agree on the Hunter observation, but I'm not sure having Hicks flailing away until he somehow magically figures is out is the best course to take in determining whether he's a long term fit. The Twins arguably set themselves back with Hicks by rushing him into the position 2 years ago. He should have been doing what he's doing now a long time ago, around the time Ryan decide to trade both Span and Revere. 

[Kwak]

 

Right field is harder to play than left in Target Field, so I don't see why Arcia should play right.

Especially after Wednesday's game.

[dxpavelka]

 

Hunter a "class act"?   Why?

 

for punching a teammate in the locker room?

for declining a good offer from the Twins to sign up elsewhere as a free agent?

for returning into the division and playing for the strongest team in the division?

for multiple incidents of foot in mouth disease in public forums throughout the years and attacking reporters?

 

Nope. 

 

He is not even an "aging veteran".  He is an "aged" player.  The oldest position player in the majors.  He is what he is.  And TR has a horrible habit in bringing in old ex-Twins who are over the hill.  (Kubel, Guerrier, Bartlett, Guardado v2, Trombley v2 etc) and sign geriatric players.  Nothing unusual.  

 

The numbers (and the videos and the scouting reports were out there on Hunter this off-season.)   The blame is on Ryan.  Stick a fork in him.  He is way overdone.

I understand your trepidation about someone punching a teammate in the locker room - but if the son of a bitch despartely needs it.....

[laloesch]

While I wouldn't have signed Hunter, I'm not overly upset that he is on the roster and taking reps in RF.    Full disclosure, I never bought into the sales pitch that Hunter is providing veteran leadership to these young guys that Ryan tried so hard to sell to Twins fans.  It was simply another smoke and mirror attempt at selling a few more season tickets, which have been in decline the past three years.

 

Sure it would be nice to call up the kids and not rely on a 40 year old ballplayer WAY past his prime, two journeymen outfielders (Robinson & Scafer) and Arcia who appears to be more of a DH than an outfielder at this point.  Unfortunately our AAA options have played so poorly up to this point that it's best these kids take some extended reps in AAA and see who stands out.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm just as impatient as the next guy waiting for Rosario, Buxton, Hicks, Walker, Sano, etc., but most of these guys just haven't risen to the occasion yet.   For the time being we will have to deal with the musical chair outfield.  Sure, it's depressing and downright aggravating at times but unless Terry Ryan works some sort of trade in the near future it is what it is.

[ScottyB]

Now I'm not saying that Hunter is the end-all, be-all here, but if it was up to me, I'd ditch Schafer long before ditching Hunter. He's about as useful as an injured Mastroianni.

 

Besides, yes the team could stand to make roster changes but we should also realize that after the first week of the season, this team is playing .640+ baseball. I'm not saying they will sustain that, but I also see positives from this team. We don't have players who can't play because of injury clogging up the roster. They're making changes quicker this year.

[spinowner]

 

Now I'm not saying that Hunter is the end-all, be-all here, but if it was up to me, I'd ditch Schafer long before ditching Hunter. He's about as useful as an injured Mastroianni.

Besides, yes the team could stand to make roster changes but we should also realize that after the first week of the season, this team is playing .640+ baseball. I'm not saying they will sustain that, but I also see positives from this team. We don't have players who can't play because of injury clogging up the roster. They're making changes quicker this year.

The primary goal for this season should be to prepare the coming wave of young players to contend in 2016 and beyond. Roster changes should be made with extreme caution. This team should not trade a prospect for an established player unless it's a total knock-your-socks-off offer.

[Linus]

Well, here is an inconvenient truth.....Hunter has been our best outfielder so far this year and it is not even close.   

[jimmer]

 

Well, here is an inconvenient truth.....Hunter has been our best outfielder so far this year and it is not even close.   

That tells us a lot about our OF, right? And our fantastic prospect line. How long has our OF been bad?

[steve]

 

How long has our OF been bad?

 

Long enough to trade away Carlos Gomez, Denard Span and Ben Revere.

[glunn]

Hunter had a pretty good game today for someone who is done -- 3 for 4, a home run and 2 RBI.

 

I am not saying that signing Hunter was a good move, but maybe it was not as terrible a move as some people have opined.

[jokin]

 

 

 

Unfortunately our AAA options have played so poorly up to this point that it's best these kids take some extended reps in AAA and see who stands out.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm just as impatient as the next guy waiting for Rosario, Buxton, Hicks, Walker, Sano, etc., but most of these guys just haven't risen to the occasion yet.  

 

Rosario got pushed by the Twins to AAA, after he only spent half a season in AA and hadn't mastered it yet.  Watch to see if he gets it going as the weather warms up.

 

Hicks hasn't played poorly, going into last night's game,    he's ranked 7th in the IL among all OFers in wRC+ and 8th in OPS.

 

Buxton is definitely making some noise in Chattanooga that he might soon be ready....

[Platoon]

Hunter a "class act"?   Why?

 

for punching a teammate in the locker room?

for declining a good offer from the Twins to sign up elsewhere as a free agent?

for returning into the division and playing for the strongest team in the division?

for multiple incidents of foot in mouth disease in public forums throughout the years and attacking reporters?

 

Nope. 

 

He is not even an "aging veteran".  He is an "aged" player.  The oldest position player in the majors.  He is what he is.  And TR has a horrible habit in bringing in old ex-Twins who are over the hill.  (Kubel, Guerrier, Bartlett, Guardado v2, Trombley v2 etc) and sign geriatric players.  Nothing unusual.  

 

The numbers (and the videos and the scouting reports were out there on Hunter this off-season.)   The blame is on Ryan.  Stick a fork in him.  He is way overdone.

The second part of your post might touch on one of the reasons the Hunter signing is disliked by many. He is the (current) poster child for TR's habitual signing of over the hill former Twins. And frankly, it does not help that he is being force fed to us by the broadcasters, who fawn over him like he's going to lead the Twins to the promised land. Well maybe the promised land, but doubtfully the playoffs.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

The problem is not Torii Hunter, he isn't the problem anymore than Willingham was last year, and if you think that cutting Hunter will help the Twins win games it won't. I think that people just hate Hunter because he is conservative.

hunter sucking not his Fault? Absolutely correct, it's Terry Ryan's fault. Everyone who watched baseball in 2013-14 knew that Hunter was done.

 

cutting Hunter won't help this team in 2015? maybe. Or Maybe cutting Hunter brings up Rosario who figures out major league pitching and becomes a stud for years to come. This team obviously can't keep fielding Arcia and Hunter in the same outfield, and the sad part is the guy who needs the reps in the outfield to improve is getting the "rest"

 

As far as the conservatism goes, I just wish he'd keep his views to himself, no matter which side of the argument he was on. I want to watch good baseball, not poor baseball and political stumping. Luckily I havent heard mr Hunter express his views on non-baseball related subjects lately.

[Platoon]

hunter sucking not his Fault? Absolutely correct, it's Terry Ryan's fault. Everyone who watched baseball in 2013-14 knew that Hunter was done.

cutting Hunter won't help this team in 2015? maybe. Or Maybe cutting Hunter brings up Rosario who figures out major league pitching and becomes a stud for years to come. This team obviously can't keep fielding Arcia and Hunter in the same outfield, and the sad part is the guy who needs the reps in the outfield to improve is getting the "rest"

As far as the conservatism goes, I just wish he'd keep his views to himself, no matter which side of the argument he was on. I want to watch good baseball, not poor baseball and political stumping. Luckily I havent heard mr Hunter express his views on non-baseball related subjects lately.

You might have spoken a tad too soon!

 

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_28038242/torii-hunters-twitter-defense-floyd-mayweather-draws-fire?source=hottopics

[Linus]

 

That tells us a lot about our OF, right? And our fantastic prospect line. How long has our OF been bad?

Correct. It also confuses me why we have 5 pages in this thread mostly bashing the guy and none about Schafer and Aria.

 

I wasn't crazy about the signing but he is not the problem right now.

[jimmer]

 

Hunter had a pretty good game today for someone who is done -- 3 for 4, a home run and 2 RBI.

 

I am not saying that signing Hunter was a good move, but maybe it was not as terrible a move as some people have opined.

Good timing for this post.  Before this game, he had an OPS in the .500s and there was no RF with a worse DRS.

[bird]

 

Correct. It also confuses me why we have 5 pages in this thread mostly bashing the guy and none about Schafer and Aria.

 

I wasn't crazy about the signing but he is not the problem right now.

Agreed. The real problems are that: 1) Buxton, Hicks, Arcia, and Rosario aren't the ANSWERS they were projected to be right now; and 2) Ryan wasn't prepared for this to happen and decided to give us a Plan B that we don't like in each of the last 3 years.

 

He can't be faulted for the former and he's understandably taken plenty of heat for the latter. 

 

But you know what I'm tired of? People depicting Ryan as if he went all smoke and mirrors with us regarding Hunter, giving us this big hard sell about how great he was going to be at mentoring. This just didn't happen!! Yeah, he may have made a comment here and there lauding Hunter's "leadership" or whatever, usually in response probably to a lead question by some journalist. But any hype job about his intangibles have come from the media and others, not from Ryan, I wish we could dispense from this stupid talk about how hoodwinked we all got by Ryan when it comes to Hunter. Geez.

[Mike Sixel]

I doubt most fans on this site were hoodwinked. To the poster above.....this thread is about Hunter, why would we post here about Schafer?

[jimmer]

 

Correct. It also confuses me why we have 5 pages in this thread mostly bashing the guy and none about Schafer and Aria.

 

I wasn't crazy about the signing but he is not the problem right now.

Well, before yesterday's game he had an OPS in the .500s and no RF had a worse DRS.  I'm not sure how that doesn't qualify as part of the problem, especially when signing an almost 40 year old OF with horrible defense was a bad idea to begin with.

 

Having said that, Ryan offered him what he did, and of course Hunter takes that money if a GM is willing to give it to him.  He's giving his effort but his time is gone.

[USAFChief]

Good timing for this post.  Before this game, he had an OPS in the .500s and there was no RF with a worse DRS.

Perhaps it's less "good timing" for the post you quoted and more "bad timing" for the OP, and all those who jumped on that bandwagon. I'd like to see more than a handful of PA's before I ignore the previous 9000.

 

 

By the by, what does UZR say about Hunter in 2015?

[jimmer]

Well, the OP started this post almost a week ago, so I doubt it's bad timing for him. 

 

Additionally, here were plenty of people who hated this signing from the start, and well before this thread started, so I doubt too many read a thread started on April 27th and were only then convinced to jump on the 'hate this signing' bandwagon. 

 

And of course, most people understand that a guy almost 40 shouldn't have his current state of ability based on what he did in his 20s and early-mid 30s. 

[Thrylos]

 

Well, here is an inconvenient truth.....Hunter has been our best outfielder so far this year and it is not even close.   

 

Nope. That would be Shane Robinson, both with the stick and the glove. And it is not even close.

[USAFChief]

And of course, most people understand that a guy almost 40 shouldn't have his current state of ability based on what he did in his 20s and early-mid 30s.

 

Absolutely true. Perhaps also not based on 75 PAs.

 

I also think a guy almost 40 at least has a chance to approximate what he did when he was almost 39.

 

For the record, I doubted Hunter would move the needle much from the day he was signed. But to me he doesn't look "done," just farther away from his prime. Someday, he'll be far enough away to no longer be able tp play big league ball. im not convinced that day is today. He's still in good physical shape, still has the bat speed, still can play a respectable corner OF. I like that he will do whatever it takes to win a game...I think there's value in young players learning the big leagues are a zero sum game. To win, someone else had to lose. Those other people don't just let you win, you have to take it from them.