A's 7, Twins 4: Twins' Hot Start Goes Up in Smoke in Another Late-Inning Collapse

[Whitey333]

Not surprised but still very disappointed in their series against the A's.  Its best to forget this silly post season chase and plan for next year, if there is a next year.  Play some young call ups and start evaluating if they have a real shot a major league baseball or if their cant miss status is just hype and hope.

[Patzky]

14 minutes ago, Jack Pine said:

We seemd to have assembled a team of wannabe pull hitters.

The solo HR barrage makes everyone get big eyes it did in SD too. Understandable.. same results though.

[Patzky]

2 hours ago, CRF said:

"Turn out the lights, the party's over"

They keep flickering when you turn them off. Must be a short.

 

[Patzky]

22 minutes ago, Hunter4848 said:

And what approach do you hope for? Sacrificing the future for this crappy team to chase a playoff spot seems extremely short sighted...

The end game of the playoffs was never gonna work. One round maybe two and out. Building excitement and placing fannies was the short sighted plan... Just what ownership would say.

I guess the mixed signals is what bugs people most.

[LastOnePicked]

7 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

By getting closer to exposing that the delusion is in fact reality, we may not only get to see Jenkins and ERod in Twins’ uniforms soon, but also learn lessons about developing the roster for a true run in ‘28 and beyond.

What about this organization would suggest an ability to learn from past mistakes?

[LastOnePicked]

3 hours ago, Patzky said:

What if I told you that our future stars (LK and AM) had a big hand in the loss that made us unserious. You can't have it both ways.. 

I don't think my point was clear. Young players - particularly players playing out of position - are going to struggle. That's not unserious. That's called development.

What's unserious is that this organization looked at the post sell-off roster, added nothing in the offseason, and said to fans: "We're going for it!" They were ready to give up significant potential prospect capital because they believed they already had what they needed on the roster, or in AAA.

And then, even in the midst of a bizarrely accessible WC race, they proceeded to ignore additional resources waiting in AAA.

Fundamentally unserious. This continues to be a nothing organization.

[LastOnePicked]

1 hour ago, friedbrycenbeans said:

I must admit, it is concerning that this team will have made the postseason 1 time in the last 6 years. And 2023 they benefited from a historically inept (even for the AL Central) division. 

Get ready. All you're going to hear come October is how "close" this team is to contention, how there's such "potential" waiting at AAA, and that if they just "bring it all back next year," things are finally ready to click.

Nothing can or will change for this organization until the sale is complete. Only new ownership will be able to see this utter mess clearly.

[1985Fan]

Keaschall’s defensive problems aren’t due to him playing out of position. His number one position in the minors was DH, followed by 2B, and CF. The problem is that he was rapidly promoted after spending most of a season recovering from TJ surgery and playing DH. They need to option him to the minors to teach him how to play defense at either LF, CF, or 2B. The way he’s playing now, he doesn’t have much of a future. He doesn’t hit enough or for power to be a DH. 
He looks like Julien playing 2B, so I think the Twins have decided infield is not an option for the future. After watching him at 2B, I agree. If he can’t learn to be an average to good OF, they will need to consider trading him. They need to field a team that is focused on defense and pitching. 

[Maybebaby]

2 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

3rd season in a row of a 2nd half collapse for this team. Not just a Rocco thing. 

Yep, like it's of their DNA, an annual event.

[LastOnePicked]

2 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

3rd season in a row of a 2nd half collapse for this team. Not just a Rocco thing. 

No, but this one at least has the benefit of not hearing the manager lavish praise on the players just for "showing up" and "playing hard."

I'll take progress wherever I can get it.

[Riverbrian]

Tough Road Trip.

Nothing a 15 game win streak won't cure. 

BTW... We are getting to the point where a double digit wins streak is indeed necessary.

We haven't had one this year. We had one last year and we had one the year before that. 

I continue to wait patiently. 

[Saxophone Joe]

3 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I continue to wait patiently. 

[MikeNC]

10 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I've changed my mind on Keaschall. He cannot be in the field in any capacity. Truly awful.

If only they had another REAL Center Fielder . . but WHERE could they possibly find one? . . . .

[bean5302]

Prielipp gets f'd again by the bullpen. I think his ERA would be like 4.00 if it wasn't for the bullpen seemingly always allowing every inherited base runner to score when they come in to relieve him.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, 1985Fan said:

Keaschall’s defensive problems aren’t due to him playing out of position. His number one position in the minors was DH, followed by 2B, and CF. The problem is that he was rapidly promoted after spending most of a season recovering from TJ surgery and playing DH. They need to option him to the minors to teach him how to play defense at either LF, CF, or 2B. The way he’s playing now, he doesn’t have much of a future. He doesn’t hit enough or for power to be a DH. 
He looks like Julien playing 2B, so I think the Twins have decided infield is not an option for the future. After watching him at 2B, I agree. If he can’t learn to be an average to good OF, they will need to consider trading him. They need to field a team that is focused on defense and pitching. 

They might as well let him learn in MLB, but he should be playing LF.

[bean5302]

8 hours ago, knothole61 said:

Yeah, I mean center field is a very demanding position in general. If they had to experiment with Keaschall in the outfield he should have been plopped in left. Now it's best to bring him back to the infield where errors are usually not as costly and where he will have much less ground to cover. He's a solid athlete and appears also to be the type of player who will work his tail off to improve. Is there any reason why he couldn't focus on first base during the off season and maybe find a home there? Man, wouldn't Morneau love to coach him up!

Center field is the easiest outfield position to play. It's the most demanding from a physical skill set, but it's the easiest to play. Least positional awareness needed, least ball tracking or predicting skills needed. It's basically just run to where it looks like the ball is going right off the bat, open and close the glove at the right time.

Corner outfield balls don't fly straight, they hook and slice like crazy golf shots. 50% of the time, you're running directly at a wall.

[Patzky]

52 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Tough Road Trip.

Nothing a 15 game win streak won't cure. 

BTW... We are getting to the point where a double digit wins streak is indeed necessary.

We haven't had one this year. We had one last year and we had one the year before that. 

I continue to wait patiently. 

You actually do sound patient. A win streak against nothing but divisional foes would be so very effective. Until it doesn't happen, there's a chance..

[DJL44]

21 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Prielipp gets f'd again by the bullpen. I think his ERA would be like 4.00 if it wasn't for the bullpen seemingly always allowing every inherited base runner to score when they come in to relieve him.

FIP of 3.98, ERA of 5.55. He’s been screwed over by the lousy Twins defense.

[Old Twins Hat]

Keaschall is a gamer, gets on base and can run.  He will grow into more power over time.

But, why they throw him into CF is beyond me.

An off-season focus on lengthening the way he throws the ball, and tracks flyballs -- he can make himself into a decent LF'er.  The Twins just need to commit to that and stop moving him around.

You know, between Buxton and his injuries, Royce and his slumps, all the lefty OF prospects and a bullpen that doesn't miss bats --  plus Keaschall's defensive positioning -- there are perplexing and not easily solvable questions for 2027 and beyond, despite having solid players across the organization.

It's almost like -- they can't get anywhere from where they are now because the inherent limitations posed by their collective weaknesses make it impossible.

 

[mnfireman]

IF Keaschall makes that catch in the 6th (the 3rd out), the Twins lead 4-3. Morris is not trying to throw perfect pitches (getting lit up in the process), and the BP use for the 7th, 8th, and 9th is different. 

Playing Keaschall in CF is 100% not an option going forward, but you do not demote the teams best hitter, you find a better way to lessen the impact of his defense. Keaschall at 2B and Clemens in CF may have been a better option, though I think Kreidler could have matched Keaschall's 0-5 at the plate (possibly due to trying make up for his defensive misplays).  

Constantly playing with a short bench is not a good strategy, and becomes even worse when a player occurs an injury that may only take a couple of days off to heal (I don't want to hear any Buxton comments, its a general statement). 

[Riverbrian]

26 minutes ago, Patzky said:

You actually do sound patient. A win streak against nothing but divisional foes would be so very effective. Until it doesn't happen, there's a chance..

It was the philosopher Yogi Berra who once said. It Ain't over until it's over. However... Yogi may have stole that one from Lenny Kravitz.  

Yogi is also quoted saying... "I never said most of the things that I said". 

[1985Fan]

24 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

They might as well let him learn in MLB, but he should be playing LF.

I don’t think he can learn to play defense at any position. I think that’s the sad reality after watching him misplay so many chances at both 2B and OF. If they go full rebuild, then maybe they could keep him on the roster as an intern. It looks like Twins don’t want full rebuild and will try to be competitive instead. Keaschall’s bad defense is going to cost games and be painful to watch. As fans, we’re paying MLB prices for little league play.

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

1 hour ago, 1985Fan said:

H. They need to option him to the minors to teach him how to play defense at either LF, CF, or 2B

Yes, lets put the guy with a .909 OPS and over .300 BA the last two months in the minors so we have another thing to complain about. (His BA and OPS are both better than Bell, Larnach, Clemens, Jeffers, Buxton, Lewis, Lee, Roden) Christ I could have just said everybody on the Twins Roster! When a guy is going like Keashall offensively you play him and either live with the defensive or DH him. Is having Bell at 1B so he can DH better or worse than having him in CF and Lewis at 1B? Or do like somebody else mentioned stick him in left and put a real center fielder in CF.

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

7 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

I don’t think he can learn to play defense at any position. I think that’s the sad reality after watching him misplay so many chances at both 2B and OF. If they go full rebuild, then maybe they could keep him on the roster as an intern. It looks like Twins don’t want full rebuild and will try to be competitive instead. Keaschall’s bad defense is going to cost games and be painful to watch. As fans, we’re paying MLB prices for little league play.

So you want to the replace their best hitter with a lesser hitter so we can complain how not how poor the offense is but how terrible it is? It would be a different story if really anybody on the team was actually hitting but they are not. I will take what we get with his defense over what the rest of the guys on the roster give us with the bat. Maybe one or three or four of them turn it on and then we can discuss taking him out of the lineup. 

[RpR]

1 minute ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

So you want to the replace their best hitter with a lesser hitter so we can complain how not how poor the offense is but how terrible it is? It would be a different story if really anybody on the team was actually hitting but they are not. I will take what we get with his defense over what the rest of the guys on the roster give us with the bat. Maybe one or three or four of them turn it on and then we can discuss taking him out of the lineup. 

Keaschall lost the game and struck out to end it.

A team that needs to score extra runs to over come its defense is a lost cause.

Next Spring Training, how Keaschall performs in the field may determine his place with the team or the league.

[Aggies7]

So, the FO is so concerned about a prospect not being able to play in 2027 in case of a lockout, they’re willing to put another young guy in positions he has no business being in. And it’s cost us who knows how many games at this point. Shockingly hasn’t destroyed his confidence at the plate. Yet. They’re doing this for funsies, I guess?

It would have been nice to make the playoffs so some of the younger guys can have that experience. Even if it were two games and out. You know, that’s part of their development too. It’s so easy to not care about an organization that is not being run with winnings game as a priority. Oh well.

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

12 minutes ago, RpR said:

Keaschall lost the game and struck out to end it.

A team that needs to score extra runs to over come its defense is a lost cause.

Next Spring Training, how Keaschall performs in the field may determine his place with the team or the league.

absoletly ridiculous take. The guy that just turned 24 with a career WAR of 3.1 (oWAR) 4.8 .in 174 games, OPS+ of 115, 29 SB and was 9th in the ROY (after 49 games) isn't good enough to play for a sub .500 team or possibly the league? Are you kidding, after the players the Twins have run though here? He didn't have a good game last night, the one over is head was like watching beer league softball players. The one to wall was no where near as bad, and I have seen many, many guys not make that play, still not good though. But him being in CF is just as much on the Twins as it is on him. Having him in LF and Erod or Jenkins in CF, they maybe,likely, possibly win that game. 

After watching some of the guys on other teams that look absolutely terrible at the plate you don't think they would love to have Keashall and figure out what to do with him offensively? 

[LastOnePicked]

7 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

It’s so easy to not care about an organization that is not being run with winnings game as a priority. Oh well.

The Pohlads pulling this team off the market was the death knell for this organization. It signaled that nothing would ever change in competitiveness, intelligence or approach. When you don't understand the game and you don't care about winning, you'll miss every single opportunity to improve.

I don't mean a forever death. Anything is possible over a long enough timeline. But so long as the Pohlads are pulling the levers here, this organization has zero chance at a title. Zero.

[RpR]

4 minutes ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

absoletly ridiculous take. The guy that just turned 24 with a career WAR of 3.1 (oWAR) 4.8 .in 174 games, OPS+ of 115, 29 SB and was 9th in the ROY (after 49 games) isn't good enough to play for a sub .500 team or possibly the league? Are you kidding, after the players the Twins have run though here? He didn't have a good game last night, the one over is head was like watching beer league softball players. The one to wall was no where near as bad, and I have seen many, many guys not make that play, still not good though. But him being in CF is just as much on the Twins as it is on him. Having him in LF and Erod or Jenkins in CF, they maybe,likely, possibly win that game. 

After watching some of the guys on other teams that look absolutely terrible at the plate you don't think they would love to have Keashall and figure out what to do with him offensively? 

Arreaz has 3 batting titles, a better glove than Keaschall and gets sold off Often. No they would not love to have Keaschall.

[jkcarew]

Pioneer Press headline from yesterday: Twins Take Wait and See Approach with Buxton

You can’t make it up. This organization is so unserious. It’s become a very bad joke.

Do they need his permission to shut him down? No. Just do it, and use the remaining schedule to let Jenkins and/or Rodriguez get a taste.