Promotional Problem: Matt Wallner, Alan Roden, and Walker Jenkins Nearing Target Field

[weitz41]

I don't see any promotion issues here at all. Jenkins needs a lot more time in AAA before he needs a promotion. To that, it may be best to keep him off the 40-man roster until there is an actual 2027 season.

Most of us went through the Joey Gallo seasons. Wallner is him without the defense or 1b option. No need for a promotion there.

Roden's numbers are great, but he needs (idk) 20-30 more games at AAA before we get to concerned about how to fit him on the 26-man roster. 2nd or 3rd week of July and still crushing AAA ok...Something or someone has to go. Within a week or two of the trade deadline. Hmm...

[Patzky]

1 hour ago, Saxophone Joe said:

MLB isn't for the sentimental, but I'll still feel bad for the kid if he gets sent down before getting his first hit. He's gotten so close a couple times! 

Fedko gets the start in RF tonight. Please don't ask Shohei for his autograph til the games over!

 

[jmlease1]

Wallner still needs to show he can catch up to not just fastballs but the faster ball. He's punishing mistakes, and hitting lower velocity fastballs, but hasn't shown that he can catch up to stuff in the upper 90's which is where he will get hunted in MLB. 

Martin isn't hitting but has started getting on base again over the last couple of weeks in his reduced role; he might have earned more time. Fedko has played so little since coming up it's hard to say what he deserves or doesn't, but his RH bat helps balance the squad a bit. He's the most likely candidate to get dropped again, but replacing him with Roden does raise some issues of lineup balance and vulnerability to LHP.

Not sure there's that much urgency yet; the offense was humming until the Dodgers shut things down. For, you know, one game.

[Linus]

I have no heartburn at all at sending Martin down. He’s regressed back to a hitter that just doesn’t offer much. He’s gotten better in the outfield but he isn’t special out there. He makes good catches coming in on balls but when he gets to the fence he looks like an infielder. Plus he’s not a “heads up” ball player. He has some speed but doesn’t run the bases that well. And for some reason he throws to the wrong base far too often. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Great posts and great discussions of the options here. Thanks to everyone who posted.

[tony&rodney]

For those curious to watch, the Saints are facing Hunter Greene tonight (game in bottom of 1st inning). Jenkins hit a triple in his first at bat back in AAA. 

[mnfireman]

41 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

For those curious to watch, the Saints are facing Hunter Greene tonight (game in bottom of 1st inning). Jenkins hit a triple in his first at bat back in AAA. 

Looked a bit overmatched in his second AB. He was late on a FB that he fouled off, and was then called out on strikes on a 99.1 MPH FB. 

[IndianaTwin]

I don’t have a preference on them. I’m just enjoying the irony of TD folks arguing that the Twins could use another LH hitting outfielder. 

I don’t have a precise count, but over the past year, it seems there’s been at least several articles or comments arguing, “The Twins have too }#%^*+ many LH OFs. They need to trade one.” 

 

(And by “several,” I mean “several per week.”)

 

[Andy MacPhail]

3 hours ago, weitz41 said:

I don't see any promotion issues here at all. Jenkins needs a lot more time in AAA before he needs a promotion. To that, it may be best to keep him off the 40-man roster until there is an actual 2027 season.

Most of us went through the Joey Gallo seasons. Wallner is him without the defense or 1b option. No need for a promotion there.

Roden's numbers are great, but he needs (idk) 20-30 more games at AAA before we get to concerned about how to fit him on the 26-man roster. 2nd or 3rd week of July and still crushing AAA ok...Something or someone has to go. Within a week or two of the trade deadline. Hmm...

Agree, There is no doubt that Wallner can hit AAA. I'm afraid he'll be stewing there longer until he gets really angry & start to be a MLBer or he'll get frustrated & lose it. I hope for the prior.

Being an INFer converted to OFer, Martin has gone through a lot with MN, from at the plate & in the field yet he keeps bouncing back. He has character, is a good hitter with a good eye & athletic. I don't get fans so quick to give up on him. He probably won't be a star but his character, bat & glove could always be an asset. He'll adjust; just be patient.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

6 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Exactly. Send Fedko back to AAA. Move Kody Clemens back to a utility role.

I’d DFA Bell promote Wallner for reasons laid out earlier, demote Fedko, he’s not trusted to play, promote Roden for RF. Move Clemens to 2B (cap tip to @ashbury) and Keaschall would be on the bench with Martin.

[Linus]

43 minutes ago, Andy MacPhail said:

Agree, There is no doubt that Wallner can hit AAA. I'm afraid he'll be stewing there longer until he gets really angry & start to be a MLBer or he'll get frustrated & lose it. I hope for the prior.

Being an INFer converted to OFer, Martin has gone through a lot with MN, from at the plate & in the field yet he keeps bouncing back. He has character, is a good hitter with a good eye & athletic. I don't get fans so quick to give up on him. He probably won't be a star but his character, bat & glove could always be an asset. He'll adjust; just be patient.

He’s not a good hitter - look at his stats. As far as his “character” we have no idea. He’s gotten more chances than many and he’s 27 so no, we don’t need to be patient we need to find corner outfielders that OPS more than 660 

[weitz41]

1 hour ago, Andy MacPhail said:

Agree, There is no doubt that Wallner can hit AAA. I'm afraid he'll be stewing there longer until he gets really angry & start to be a MLBer or he'll get frustrated & lose it. I hope for the prior.

Being an INFer converted to OFer, Martin has gone through a lot with MN, from at the plate & in the field yet he keeps bouncing back. He has character, is a good hitter with a good eye & athletic. I don't get fans so quick to give up on him. He probably won't be a star but his character, bat & glove could always be an asset. He'll adjust; just be patient.

Agree as well, Wallner IMO is a change of scenery guy. With Buxton, Larnach and Bell needing DH spots there's just no room for Wallner. Trade 1-2 of those 3 then ok bring him up. Martin is definitely struggling. Sometimes you got to let them (Martin) work through it. To soon IMO to look for a change there.

[ziggy]

The problem as I see it is none of the outfielders in the minors have seperated themselves from the rest of them. If there was no doubt, no debate as to who needs to be called up first and they don't get the call, then there's a problem. None are forcing the Twins' hand.

The guys in the minors and the majors are too similar. With the exception of Buxton they are interchangeable.

[TheLeviathan]

We may just need to ride it out a month.  Larnach, Bell, possibly Clemens, and maybe even Caratini could (read: should) move at the deadline and that should free up two months to let these kids show us what they've got.

[tony&rodney]

39 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

We may just need to ride it out a month.  Larnach, Bell, possibly Clemens, and maybe even Caratini could (read: should) move at the deadline and that should free up two months to let these kids show us what they've got.

Hope you aren't surprised or disappointed if all of them are still with the club after the trade deadline.

[TheLeviathan]

1 minute ago, tony&rodney said:

Hope you aren't surprised or disappointed if all of them are still with the club after the trade deadline.

I will be more than disappointed.  I'm really tired of the team pretending to be something it is not.

[DJL44]

5 hours ago, weitz41 said:

Roden's numbers are great, but he needs (idk) 20-30 more games at AAA before we get to concerned about how to fit him on the 26-man roster. 2nd or 3rd week of July and still crushing AAA ok...Something or someone has to go. Within a week or two of the trade deadline. Hmm...

This is Roden’s third season in AAA. He has a 950 OPS in 126 games. He doesn’t need any more games in AAA.

[DocBauer]

While I agree that the proverbial "log jam" seldom occurs, I DO AGREE with the basic premise of a "promotional problem".

Regardless if you believe the current team can reach .500, or sneak in to the playoffs, the Twins are ATTEMPTING to do both as an organization. Playing winning baseball and extending the season in the playoffs...regardless of final record...is more FUN than NOT playing winning baseball and NOT being in the playoffs.

But what I personally care about most of all is setting the team up for 2027 and beyond. Anything other than that might be FUN, and I can enjoy it, but as a fan, it's my objective to see the team get ready for 2027.

BUT, look at it from the perspective of ownership, the FO, and MOST IMPORTANTANTLY from the PLAYERS perspective. If they have a chance to win games and sneak in to the playoffs, the TEAM would love to do that.

So, like it or not, NOBODY is going anywhere tomorrow. You're just NOT going to see Bell DFA when he's heating up AGAIN, as his career MO. Now, he might be moved at the deadline for SOMETHING in return opening up a roster spot for a younger player, but it's not going to happen tomorrow.

Larnach's power has almost disappeared, but he's playing better defense, is hitting, getting OB, and producing, just in a different way than expected. But he's also not going to be DFA, or traded before the deadline. 

Again, as an organization, the Twins are TRYING to win. An no team doing so is going to DFA bats doing well. But they might move on from players not expected to be part of the 2027 season at the deadline.

So yeah, there is a bit of a PROMOTIONAL problem. Roden SHOULD have broke ST with the Twins instead of Outman. Only the FO disagreed with the obvious. (I would have kept Rodriguez as well, but different topic, different day).

Roden doesn't need more than a few games to be ready for a promotion. The problem there is who does he replace? Martin and Fedko offer a pair of RH bats that "fit" the roster better at this point. Martin is no "disaster", he's just proved he should normally play against LHP. Fedko may or may not prove to be a ML ballplayer. But he brings RH balance, has only played a few games so far, and has the POTENTIAL to be better in his role than Martin. So why be so quick to demote him before he gets an honest chance to see what he might be able to do? With Larnach and Clemens currently holding down the LH portion of the corner OF spots, where does Roden "fit"?

If an injury happens almost anywhere other than catcher or SS, then Roden is 1st man up with some easy roster manipulation. 

Nobody is more bummed than me in regard to Wallner. I've been a fan and believer his entire career. But he's not taking BB at St Paul, which is something he used to do. And for some reason, he can't connect on anything 95mph or above. So he's not deserving of a promotion at this time.

And Rodriguez, unfortunately, probably doesn't play until August. 

So again, Roden is 1st man up. But currently, there isn't room unless there is an injury, or Martin or Fedko is sent down, and neither deserves it currently, or so soon. So Roden sits and waits.

Jenkins was on a hot streak before his injury. He needs time to get back in a groove. Maybe a couple of weeks? But then again, he might be behind Roden and there's still not "room" at this point.

Mendez is out currently, but his BAT looks about ML ready even as his power is still developing. So he's a ways down the list of promotion options.

Gonzalez got off to a slow start, but has been really heating up for weeks now. And while his defense might lag behind Martin and Fedko, I think he's got a potential ML BAT.

I think it's possible that Martin and Fedko could be in silent competition for the BEST RH 4th-5th OF. IF Fedko gets a legitimate chance to prove himself. Good speed from both, decent to good OB ability from both, more power from Fedko. Similar defense from both, but maybe a slight edge to Fedko as an occasional CF. So if Fedko can actually be given a run to prove himself, he MIGHT surpass Martin as an option. And that doesn't mean Martin might not win that competition. 

So, despite injuries that have set a number of top prospects back...and I still consider Roden a prospect...where is the OPPORTUNITY for advancement?

Until the trade deadline where the Twins might get SOMETHING for Bell and Larnach, there IS a PROMOTIONAL issue.

Roden is already ready. Jenkins might not be that far behind. Despite a poor start to the season, Rodriguez has really been heating up. Mendez, so young and currently out, might be excused until 2027. But Rodriguez might not be ready until August, and he's out of options, so he HAS to be part of the end of this season to get him ready.

Unfortunately, this all might leave Wallner out of the Twins future plans. It also means there is still NO ROOM for promotions available for Roden and Jenkins, and possibly Rodriguez, until Bell and Larnach are moved, and the Twins make a decision on Martin and Fedko.

Clemens still has a place on the team due to production and versatility. 

But YES, CURRENTLY, there is an issue with promotion possibilities. Not a "log jam" of talent...though it's about as close as I've ever seen it...but ROOM just HAS to be made over the next 40 days for the FUTURE. 

[mnfireman]

The forgotten part of this OF "promotional problem" is Emmanuel Rodriguez. He has been on the 40 man for 3 seasons and will be out of options next season. When he gets healthy he almost has to be called up so the team can see what he's got when facing MLB pitching.

The best ability may be availability, but he's too talented and has too much potential to be allowed to leave without some sort of return, but he'll also not have the safety net of being able to be optioned back to AAA.

[Jacksson]

"Martin is a very good defensive outfielder." Did you not see him fumble and stumble around in RF in the first 2 innings a few games back?  The charitable hometown scorer gave the batters a triple and then a double on what rightfully should have been recorded as errors due to MARTIN misplaying both "hits". 

[greglw333]

10 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

You seem awfully sure without providing any support for your assertions.

why should Zoll follow your advice over the team of scouts and analysts at his disposal?

Martin's fielding has been spectacular and he’s gotten a couple hits recently but yes, a big offensive drop-off.

After that really bad botched play by Keaschall at 2nd, I wonder what to do with him defensively - he’s made a lot of really bad plays this year and yet, recently some good ones too.

Maybe Culpepper at SS and Kreidler at 2B?

Is Houston almost ready?

I’m thinking about sending Keaschall down to work on his fielding but conflicted due to his mild to moderate offensive improvement.

I don’t want to block Jenkins, Mendez, Gabby Gonzalez or Roden with Keaschall in the OF though. Austin Voth not so good.

It’s really an absurdity even having a $100 team playing about a half billion dollar team (including luxury tax paid) but being old school, I still blame Marvin Miller for setup up this inequitable system with no salary cap.

If anything come out of new agreement, at least a floor of $170 MM escalating over the agreement. That would help some. With that the Twins could have bought 4 or 5 $15 MM relievers.

I’m seeing some slippage on plate discipline from some of the hitters. I think if the Twins believe Jenkins is the real deal, (it sure seems so, his swing is a thing of beauty) sign him up to an 8 year deal and bring him up along with Culpepper and Roden. They are the future and could help now too.

[Matt Krepp]

At this point, I think the Twins need to see what they have in the young guys. It is a tough balancing act given their unexpected competitiveness and Larnach/Clemens success this year + Bell of late. However, it's unlikely any of those guys are in their future plans and would likely have some value at the deadline. If they have the ability to unload them for something of use elsewhere on the roster and allocate that playing time to Jenkins/Erod/Roden/etc, that should be the route they take. 

[JD-TWINS]

20 hours ago, Twins GFP said:

So bench Larnach and his 122 OPS+?

If they are going to trade Larnach, then trade him. You can't bench him. He has earned his playing time so far this year.

I don’t think suggesting a Larnach trade is suggesting they “bench him”?

Trading one of their Top 3 hitters to make room for anybody “they hope pans out” is insane!!

[killercarewoliva]

20 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

Roden above Wallner in my opinion. Wallner still has too many Ks and is not as good defensively. Jenkins has played about 50 games now at AAA but I’d like to see him stay healthy for a good stretch. I’d bet he comes up after the All-Star break or trade deadline.

The twins used to be known for defense. now the defense is worst I've seen in years. Roden is great. at defense it's lights out at the plate. hopefully that can transfer to the major leagues somewhat I'm afraid Warner's just going to go back to striking out a lot. he's never done anything else but that. we recall Vargas who hit the longest home runs you've ever seen and Warner can put it out there but that's it. they don't last as Major league players. The saints are loaded with great outfielters but Fedko did not hit in the spring games and he has demolished AAA but he must be a AAAA player when it comes to offense. great young man. hate to see him demoted but I think it's time for Roden.

[Steve Lein]

"Still, Roden is making a strong case for an extended look. He's also a much better defender than Wallner, which will enter the equation as the two continue to push for their chances."

Roden is a "better" defender than Wallner, but lets be honest, we're talking about two guys who are both below average. I went to the Saints doubleheader last Thursday. They both had ugly moments, but Roden was the one who stood out more in that regard. Granted, he's just returned from being out and was in centerfield, which he should never play in the majors, but I'd keep such expectations in check. He might be as serviceable as Larnach has become.

[Major League Ready]

17 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

I’d DFA Bell promote Wallner for reasons laid out earlier, demote Fedko, he’s not trusted to play, promote Roden for RF. Move Clemens to 2B (cap tip to @ashbury) and Keaschall would be on the bench with Martin.

IDK.  Bell has an OPS 0f .853 for the last 6 eeks.  I agree that they should be more concerned about building a sustainable roster but it would be a bad look if the jettison him when he is hitting quite well.    Find a trade partner, even if the return is very modest.