A Chance Worth Taking: The Twins Are Still in This, Somehow

[Greglw3]

1 hour ago, friedbrycenbeans said:

 

I think Shelton is doing a fine job overall, but I don't think we really know anything about how he is "reshaping" this team. It's still incredibly early in his tenure and it's hard to draw much from a sample size this small. They are on pace to win 74 games, which is right where Vegas had them in the preseason. There are a ton of very talented teams underperforming now. The Twins are an undermanned team that is playing to their projections. Which is really all you can ask of a first-year manager. 

And to be clear, if the wheels fall off, that wouldn't be Shelton's fault either. 

I definitely agree you don't have to squint hard to see not just a competitive team, but a really good one potentially. It will take some players actually developing and a little more injury luck. But I think next year is the true start to a potential contention window in terms of the division. 

The reshaping was referring to hiring Grady Sizemore and Latroy, the better in-game, on field managing, letting your starters go until they tire or have untenable pitch counts, being willing to bunt for a key run and majorly accelerating the running game. Plus his communication style. And actually, though the bullpen lacks the talent of other teams, all things considered, I think he’s done a good job of managing it! I really feel like Shelty and Zoll have this ship headed in the right direction and I’m happy about it!

[thelanges5]

They’ve been more fun to watch than I thought they’d be. Shelton appears to be pulling the right levers and the front office is starting to make some moves to try to make the team better.  

[Fire Dan Gladden]

1 hour ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Making any move with an eye toward "contention" is just going to push back the inevitable rebuild longer.  This is an old, bad team that is going nowhere.  Play the kids, even if it means some of them struggle.  

Just so I understand:

When the Twins lose, we complain that they aren't making moves and trying to win. When they play better than expected and win (including replacing underperforming players), we complain that that they aren't looking towards the future by playing to win today.

I get the feeling that if the Twins eek their way into the playoffs this year (which is somewhat realistic as they are only 1.5 games out of the WC), we will be complaining that it is smoke and mirrors and they have no chance of winning in the playoffs.

Are we unable to find any joy in a team that is playing much better than expected, especially factoring in injuries? 

I always tell my kids be glad that you don't wake up in the morning with that type of view on the world.

[Greglw3]

3 hours ago, Over The Hill Again said:

Like others I’m moderately surprised that the Twins are (mathematically) relevant at Memorial Day. So far, I’m enjoying this season more than I would have thought. My perception is that Shelton mostly pulls the right levers (given what the FO gives him to work with) and the team may have a tendency to more aggressive on the base paths. Overall more entertaining than I would have guessed. FWIW I expect things to normalize and other Central teams to pick it up. Count me in the minority I guess of people not wanting to see Ryan get traded. 

I'm in the minority with you. We made a rare brilliant trade to get him and should extend him ASAP. It would be much worse than letting Sonny Gray go.

[RpR]

9 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Just so I understand:

When the Twins lose, we complain that they aren't making moves and trying to win. When they play better than expected and win (including replacing underperforming players), we complain that that they aren't looking towards the future by playing to win today.

I get the feeling that if the Twins eek their way into the playoffs this year (which is somewhat realistic as they are only 1.5 games out of the WC), we will be complaining that it is smoke and mirrors and they have no chance of winning in the playoffs.

Are we unable to find any joy in a team that is playing much better than expected, especially factoring in injuries? 

I always tell my kids be glad that you don't wake up in the morning with that type of view on the world.

BRAVO!

[RpR]

5 minutes ago, Greglw3 said:

I'm in the minority with you. We made a rare brilliant trade to get him and should extend him ASAP. It would be much worse than letting Sonny Gray go.

So many here  called baseball fans, are like a baseball versions of fishmongers, they buy sell and toss they around in their heads, because it gives them an absurd feeling of authority.

[LastOnePicked]

On one hand, I admire a homer and an optimist. On the other, delusion usually doesn't lead to good places.

This is a 70-win team, period. Over the next sixty games, the differences between the Twins and teams like Cleveland will become more and more stark.

No checkbox has been checked. They aren't contending now, and they certainly won't be contending come August. Right now, they just aren't sinking quite as fast as we thought.

 

[LastOnePicked]

17 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Just so I understand:

When the Twins lose, we complain that they aren't making moves and trying to win. When they play better than expected and win (including replacing underperforming players), we complain that that they aren't looking towards the future by playing to win today.

These are not mutually exclusive. The Twins don't have a plan, they don't have a world-class development staff and they absolutely cannot compete with the big boys of MLB.

They didn't make enough moves in the offseason. True. They aren't looking enough towards the future. That's also true, And there nothing wrong with seeing things clearly. In fact, they can't move forward if they don't.

I always want this team to win. But I want the organization to build a real competitor. That's still not happening. I hope it does.

[Linus]

They are on a 75 win pace which is what many people expected. I don’t view that as terrible but I don’t see any real difference that would suggest we are “in it”. Run differential is a crude stat. The Twins are streaky in that they will score 11 one game and then 1 and 2 the next two games. Total looks fine but you lost two of three. 

[Greglw3]

1 minute ago, LastOnePicked said:

These are not mutually exclusive. The Twins don't have a plan, they don't have a world-class development staff and they absolutely cannot compete with the big boys of MLB.

They didn't make enough moves in the offseason. True. They aren't looking enough towards the future. That's also true, And there nothing wrong with seeing things clearly. In fact, they can't move forward if they don't.

I always want this team to win. But I want the organization to build a real competitor. That's still not happening. I hope it does.

I see your sincerity and love of the Twins. I’d just respectfully point out, in terms of plan that the presence of and partial reliance on the group of Abel, Taj Bradley, Zebby Matthews, Andrew Morris, Austin Martin, Luke Keaschall, Kaelen Culpepper, Hendry Mendez, Emmanuel Rodriguez, the resurgent Gabriel Gonzalez, Walker Jenkins, Kendry Rojas, Allen Roden shows that they are looking to the future and do have a plan and soon enough, they’ll have a #3 overall draft pick to go along with the rest.

[Hunter4848]

2 hours ago, Farmer Stafford said:

I will reject the negativity in this comment section. There is all sorts of reason to be optimistic at least a little, not the least bit because the fun of being competitive ought to inspire some childlike wonder in our cold, cold hearts. If you don't accept the possibility of being hurt by your team (as all fans should, even though we should all be familiar with said pain already and respect it) then you will only feel relief when greatness or victory arrives, not happiness and joy. The starting rotation is pulling through even as it falls apart. Buck has been hitting homers left and right and Bell is seemingly through a slump. Let's have some fun.

But I'm an eternal optimist.

Some fans actually want to see a World Series instead of accepting perpetual mediocrity so they hold the team to a higher standard...

[Hunter4848]

36 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Just so I understand:

When the Twins lose, we complain that they aren't making moves and trying to win. When they play better than expected and win (including replacing underperforming players), we complain that that they aren't looking towards the future by playing to win today.

I get the feeling that if the Twins eek their way into the playoffs this year (which is somewhat realistic as they are only 1.5 games out of the WC), we will be complaining that it is smoke and mirrors and they have no chance of winning in the playoffs.

Are we unable to find any joy in a team that is playing much better than expected, especially factoring in injuries? 

I always tell my kids be glad that you don't wake up in the morning with that type of view on the world.

I am certainly glad I don't wake up in the morning accepting mediocrity, but I guess if you enjoy that then the Pohlads are the perfect owners for you. Must be nice having a huge swath of fans that never hold your feet to the fire, and are just happy to be semi competitive in baseball's worst division. 

[IndianaTwin]

4 hours ago, Over The Hill Again said:

Like others I’m moderately surprised that the Twins are (mathematically) relevant at Memorial Day. So far, I’m enjoying this season more than I would have thought. My perception is that Shelton mostly pulls the right levers (given what the FO gives him to work with) and the team may have a tendency to more aggressive on the base paths. Overall more entertaining than I would have guessed. FWIW I expect things to normalize and other Central teams to pick it up. Count me in the minority I guess of people not wanting to see Ryan get traded. 

I'm on your bandwagon with not wanting to trade Ryan. Look at this: 

Turn Lopez into a shorter leash on SWR and this group turns into one of the top rotations in baseball in the YTD. Controllable Lopez/Ryan/Ober/Abel/Bradley/Prielipp (and Rojas and more to come?) is potentially an elite rotation. Having six isn't a problem, given that Lopez may well not be ready on Opening Day. 

This is a season about sifting and sorting -- any success in 2026 is a bonus.

But sifting and sorting is a longer-term process than fans are predisposed to endure. For example...

• By the end of the year, some of the current bullpen guys will work themselves into being counted on. I'm not smart enough to tell you which ones, but they've tried a bunch of guys and they will keep churning. And no, the bullpen isn't jam-packed with old guys -- less than 70 innings have been pitched by guys over 30, one of which has since been DFAed. Another is Banda, for whom one lousy eight-day stretch has soured TD after two really good seasons. Keep sorting.
• Last season's SSS on Keaschall had us convinced he is an All-Star (hint: I don't think he's going to be selected this year). But sorting is happening with sticking with him, Lewis and Wallner getting demoted, Lee showing progression, Topa getting DFAed, Martin playing well, etc. Injuries have slowed down prospect sorting (including Roden), but it's happening now with Outman, who has actually started to hit a bit in the week-plus since Wallner went down.

Based on how Martin has done this year, I'm glad the front office takes longer to sift and sort than TD would do. Based on many of us on TD (me included, and I tend to have a long leash), he would have been a year ago. 

So back to my original point -- don't create a huge hole in the process by trading Ryan in order to "solve" a problem with one (or two or even three) new prospects and lottery tickets. 

And keep sifting and sorting along the way.

    

[IndianaTwin]

1 hour ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Just so I understand:

When the Twins lose, we complain that they aren't making moves and trying to win. When they play better than expected and win (including replacing underperforming players), we complain that that they aren't looking towards the future by playing to win today.

I get the feeling that if the Twins eek their way into the playoffs this year (which is somewhat realistic as they are only 1.5 games out of the WC), we will be complaining that it is smoke and mirrors and they have no chance of winning in the playoffs.

Are we unable to find any joy in a team that is playing much better than expected, especially factoring in injuries? 

I always tell my kids be glad that you don't wake up in the morning with that type of view on the world.

I can only speak for myself, but I find paragraphs 4 and 5 a more enjoyable way to live life than paragraphs 2 and 3. 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

49 minutes ago, Hunter4848 said:

I am certainly glad I don't wake up in the morning accepting mediocrity, but I guess if you enjoy that then the Pohlads are the perfect owners for you. Must be nice having a huge swath of fans that never hold your feet to the fire, and are just happy to be semi competitive in baseball's worst division. 

That is your takeaway? That mediocrity is acceptable? Boy did you read that wrong!

How about enjoying positives when they come? How about enjoying the good instead of forever constantly looking for the bad? Even with all the setbacks, this team is performing better then expected, take some positive from that

So the only time you will enjoy watching the Twins is when they get to the World Series. Got it.

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

I suppose it should not surprise me that the comment section focuses on all the negatives on what is generally been an on-the-whole positive season.

Even if we're pleasantly surprised with the level the team is playing, I don't know that I'd say a team currently on pace for 75 wins is an on-the-whole positive season.

And I know I've said this to you before. You dislike negativity, and I both get and respect that. I try not to feed into it, especially before the all-star break. But I just find it funny that Mr. Positivity is named Fire Dan Gladden lol. 

[Hunter4848]

2 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

That is your takeaway? That mediocrity is acceptable? Boy did you read that wrong!

How about enjoying positives when they come? How about enjoying the good instead of forever constantly looking for the bad? Even with all the setbacks, this team is performing better then expected, take some positive from that

So the only time you will enjoy watching the Twins is when they get to the World Series. Got it.

You're the one attempting to spin mediocrity as a positive...

I personally wouldn't consider being mediocre in the worst division in baseball a positive. 

And yes, I would enjoy the Twins much more if they had a chance to compete for a World Series. But i get it the Pohlads have gotten you so used to right sizing the payroll that you'll cheer for whatever collection of players they put on the field

 

[nova_twins]

I must be missing something because I don't see how these moves support your conclusion, they all make sense if the team is looking forward to 2027 as well. 

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

I get the feeling that if the Twins eek their way into the playoffs this year (which is somewhat realistic as they are only 1.5 games out of the WC), we will be complaining that it is smoke and mirrors and they have no chance of winning in the playoffs.

Let's be honest. If the team finished 80-82 and that was somehow good enough for a wild card spot, would you be excited about that team? Is the goal just to get to the playoffs? Or is the goal to put together a good team, one that can ideally contend for a pennant if not a world series championship. 

I got a lot of **** in 2024 when I, in the final days of the season, said that the Twins sucked and didn't deserve to be in the playoffs and I wasn't really all that interested in seeing that team limp into that last spot and be made fools. I still feel that way. I want to watch my team(s) do well, not delude myself into thinking they might do well. 

There's still time for a 2023 situation where this team actually gets their **** together and surprising players step up to make this team a truly competitive team. While that's not the case right now, so there remains small rays of hope. 

However, no, the team should not consider selling their future in order to bolster this current team. Much like 2023, this is the roster and they gotta sink or swim on their own.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

1 minute ago, NYCTK said:

Let's be honest. If the team finished 80-82 and that was somehow good enough for a wild card spot, would you be excited about that team? Is the goal just to get to the playoffs? Or is the goal to put together a good team, one that can ideally contend for a pennant if not a world series championship. 

I got a lot of **** in 2024 when I, in the final days of the season, said that the Twins sucked and didn't deserve to be in the playoffs and I wasn't really all that interested in seeing that team limp into that last spot and be made fools. I still feel that way. I want to watch my team(s) do well, not delude myself into thinking they might do well. 

There's still time for a 2023 situation where this team actually gets their **** together and surprising players step up to make this team a truly competitive team. While that's not the case right now, so there remains small rays of hope. 

However, no, the team should not consider selling their future in order to bolster this current team. Much like 2023, this is the roster and they gotta sink or swim on their own.

Heck yeah, I would be excited if they went 80-82 and made the playoffs!

At the beginning of the season, this team was expected to win 70 games or less. They lost their SP1 for the season. Two opening day starters were bad enough to be sent to AAA. Their starting catcher could miss half the season. The bullpen is atrocious. They then get into the playoffs where anything is possible.

If they do win 80 games that means that unexpected starting pitchers are having quality seasons. It means Buxton and a slew of younger position players are also having positive seasons. Knowing that ownership sucks, they aren't spending money, and that any moves made will be minor (especially with the strike forthcoming), that doesn't get you excited?
 

[Woof Bronzer]

2 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Just so I understand:

When the Twins lose, we complain that they aren't making moves and trying to win. When they play better than expected and win (including replacing underperforming players), we complain that that they aren't looking towards the future by playing to win today.

I get the feeling that if the Twins eek their way into the playoffs this year (which is somewhat realistic as they are only 1.5 games out of the WC), we will be complaining that it is smoke and mirrors and they have no chance of winning in the playoffs.

Are we unable to find any joy in a team that is playing much better than expected, especially factoring in injuries? 

I always tell my kids be glad that you don't wake up in the morning with that type of view on the world.

For the 5000th time, a guy with the name Fire Dan Gladden shaming other posters for being negative, without a sliver of self-awareness, is absolutely hilarious.  I will never not laugh at it.  Never change, guy who wakes up every morning thinking some random radio announcer must be fired.  

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Just so I understand:

When the Twins lose, we complain that they aren't making moves and trying to win. When they play better than expected and win (including replacing underperforming players), we complain that that they aren't looking towards the future by playing to win today.

I get the feeling that if the Twins eek their way into the playoffs this year (which is somewhat realistic as they are only 1.5 games out of the WC), we will be complaining that it is smoke and mirrors and they have no chance of winning in the playoffs.

Are we unable to find any joy in a team that is playing much better than expected, especially factoring in injuries? 

I always tell my kids be glad that you don't wake up in the morning with that type of view on the world.

It's been pointed out multiple times in this thread that they're playing at a 75 win pace. How low was your expected win total that you feel the need to scold others for not rejoicing over "how much better than expected," this team is playing? 

"Hey be happy with what you've got," given how the last few seasons have gone, and how the current season appears to be going, seems weird, but ok...

[Woof Bronzer]

37 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

That is your takeaway? That mediocrity is acceptable? Boy did you read that wrong!

How about enjoying positives when they come? How about enjoying the good instead of forever constantly looking for the bad? Even with all the setbacks, this team is performing better then expected, take some positive from that

So the only time you will enjoy watching the Twins is when they get to the World Series. Got it.

Just so I'm clear.  A 75 pace win team is a positive worth enjoying?  Sounds like loser talk to me. 

[Dman]

This year was always going to depend on the young arms and bats stepping up.  We have seen some of that, but mainly too many black holes in the lineup.  Wallner had been an almost automatic out with several uncompetitive at bats. Lewis hasn't performed well. Gray has fallen off and Keaschal has been pretty brutal this year as well.  Get better production out of those spots and maybe the Twins can find more offense.

The young arms have all performed pretty well so far.  Abel looked good until hurt. Bradley's been great.  Prielipp seems to have found his footing.  Rojas a bit bumpy with the walks, but looking OK.  Morris getting acclimated to the bullpen and Zebby seems to be back.  Pitching could still be the strength of this club if they keep up this level of production.

There seems to be an almost unusual amount of parity in the league this year.  There are lot's of teams bunched together that are close to a wild card spot.  I see no reason given the schedule and little improvement from the bats that the Twins couldn't claim a wildcard spot.  The pen could still kill that dream but with Topa gone and maybe some young arms coming up.  Maybe that can be patched up as well.  There's no Duran, Varland or Jax like talent there right now, but they could have some good arms yet.  

They need to do well on this long stretch of away games.  If they can be around .500 after that June only has the Yankees and Cardinals as super tough teams to beat.  We'll see how it goes, but despite the many flaws this team has they are still in it.

[Nshore]

2026 will be 35 years since the Twins have been anywhere near a World Series.  The negative sign would be if fans WEREN'T fed up with that.

[NYCTK]

23 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Knowing that ownership sucks, they aren't spending money, and that any moves made will be minor (especially with the strike forthcoming), that doesn't get you excited?

...honestly, no.

I'd watch, and I'd be excited if they won the Wild Card round. But I'd still  recognize they're imposters who have no business being in the playoffs in the first place. Even at that point, I wouldn't even feel the team are contenders in the Divisional round, instead just there potentially acting as spoilers to one of the other, better AL teams. 

But, like I said, if this team actually turned it around and played like one of the better teams in the league for a full 3-4 month period, that's a different story. 

[NYCTK]

13 minutes ago, Nshore said:

2026 will be 35 years since the Twins have been anywhere near a World Series.  The negative sign would be if fans WEREN'T fed up with that.

Hey man, they led the ALCS, 1 game to 0, in 2002. 

[hitterscount]

2 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

On one hand, I admire a homer and an optimist. On the other, delusion usually doesn't lead to good places.

This is a 70-win team, period. Over the next sixty games, the differences between the Twins and teams like Cleveland will become more and more stark.

No checkbox has been checked. They aren't contending now, and they certainly won't be contending come August. Right now, they just aren't sinking quite as fast as we thought.

 

They have their deficiencies, however the starting pitching is good enough to keep them hanging around the division into the summer, if nothing else one of the WC spots. Moving off of Lewis and Wallner improves the team immediately, call me surprised that the BP has improved the past week or two to hold a couple close games… no doubt that the BP could use another reliable arm…. I still believe they are a SS and OF away from having a chance to make the playoffs. Lee is alright, not a SS. The bottom line is that they have competed, don’t believe many think they could take down the Yankees or Rays in a playoff series, even if they were to make it. 

[soyouresayingtheresachance]

Now that Arcia and Kriedler are up, I'd prefer to see them play short. Lee shouldn't be there. His defense is not good enough for the position and his bat definitely does not make up for it. Arcia at 3rd. Kriedler at SS. Lee at 2nd. Clemens and Keaschall at 1st.