Left Field Could Surprise Next Season

[rv78]

It's comical that Keaschall is the proclaimed stud at 2B for 2026 and beyond based on his 207 PA's last year and yet Martin is a questionmark since he only hit well for 181 PA's. We have a plethora of outfielders with Martin hitting .282 last year. Tell me, which outfielder the Twins have in-line to fill those 3 spots hit at a higher average than that? Nope, not even the great Byron Buxton. Who had a higher OBP than the .374 put up by Martin? Nope, not Buxton. If I'm Shelton, Martin is my starting LFer on opening day and doesn't lose the job until someone else proves they are better.

[TNtwins85]

17 hours ago, gman said:

Besides a decent left field combination, they could fill the #2 spot in the order. Hoping that will insure better on base percentage and thus more base runners. However, Martin hit better against right hander's than did the left handed Roden. I expect Buxton will lead off again, although I would prefer him hitting third or fourth. 

I expect Martin to get a full run in LF. Rosen probably gets into LF and RF a couple days a week. If Martin can do what he did in august and September I’m good with those numbers and the stealing and D he brings. Being on base at a .365-.380 clip for sure helps this team no matter how many HR’s he hits.

[TNtwins85]

1 hour ago, the_brute_squad said:

It's too early to judge Martin and Roden. This article had no mention of launch angle or mph off the bat. Not to mention I have no idea of their average with balls in play. Without that info, I'm completely lost!

Martin has always shown above average OBP in his college and minors career. That’s his game and you need guys like that. Especially if they bring average or above average defense. 

[JD-TWINS]

40 minutes ago, rv78 said:

It's comical that Keaschall is the proclaimed stud at 2B for 2026 and beyond based on his 207 PA's last year and yet Martin is a questionmark since he only hit well for 181 PA's. We have a plethora of outfielders with Martin hitting .282 last year. Tell me, which outfielder the Twins have in-line to fill those 3 spots hit at a higher average than that? Nope, not even the great Byron Buxton. Who had a higher OBP than the .374 put up by Martin? Nope, not Buxton. If I'm Shelton, Martin is my starting LFer on opening day and doesn't lose the job until someone else proves they are better.

Nothing wrong with not struggling early in career, particularly coming back in same season after getting hit and having a broken wrist …….. I do give the nod to Keaschall in the box just due to Martin’s accumulated PA’s prior to his last 181.

That said, to me, Martin definitely looked like he had turned the corner last year over last couple months! His demeanor seemed more calm and confident and he got results at the plate. As you state, his OBP was impressive.

He should start 115-125 games (as the plan) coming out of Spring Training. Hoping for good health! He can be a real positive.

[Major League Ready]

4 hours ago, Mahoning said:

Years ago the Twins had a regular, every-day LF named Eddie Rosario. When the Twins released him (too expensive) all the stat-heads wrote that he'd be easy to replace. They've never replaced him. That's one of the problems with WAR: It assumes that there is a (cheap) replacement available. But, what if there isn't?

 In all the years since Rosario the Twins' farm system has failed to produce a regular left fielder. Now that MLB seems to be shifting to giving value to contact and speed, I'd like to see Martin get the chance.

You make it sound like they would have been better off keeping him.  He was below replacement level in the years after they let him go.  Just about anyone they put out there was better than him.  What he did before he left is completely irrelevant.  They also saved $24M from 22-24 that was invested elsewhere.   We can debate how well that money was spent but it certainly was not a mistake to replace him and invest that money in guys like Bader and MAT.

[TNtwins85]

25 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

You make it sound like they would have been better off keeping him.  He was below replacement level in the years after they let him go.  Just about anyone they put out there was better than him.  What he did before he left is completely irrelevant.  They also saved $24M from 22-24 that was invested elsewhere.   We can debate how well that money was spent but it certainly was not a mistake to replace him and invest that money in guys like Bader and MAT.

Bader and MAT weren’t until much later and it was when they were spending and $8M-$9M for a guy that hit the ball and drove in runs. No matter what his WAR was you can’t deny that in his Twins career. It’s extremely debatable when you look at the numbers put up by all the OFers not named Buxton or Kepler in ‘21 and ‘22 who essentially filled Rosario’s place. Also, just because he hit terrible with those other teams doesn’t mean he would have done the same had he stayed. I’d rather have a guy like Rosario than a guy like Wallner. Irrespective of WAR and all the other numbers Rosario drove in runs. 

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, rv78 said:

with Martin hitting .282 last year. 

Even with the gaudy BA, Austin Martin scored runs at a slower clip per opportunity (22 R / 181 PA) than Mickey Gasper (15 / 110).  Gasper's not a LF candidate, in case you're going to latch onto that as your rebuttal, but I'm not ready to proclaim Martin anything yet either.  At the plate he's still pretty weak tea and a team full of Martins would struggle to score.

[TNtwins85]

8 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Even with the gaudy BA, Austin Martin scored runs at a slower clip per opportunity (22 R / 181 PA) than Mickey Gasper (15 / 110).  Gasper's not a LF candidate, in case you're going to latch onto that as your rebuttal, but I'm not ready to proclaim Martin anything yet either.  At the plate he's still pretty weak tea and a team full of Martins would struggle to score.

I’m not so sure a team full of Austin Martins would be that bad. If you had 7 Martins. A Buxton and another masher I think you have the ‘24 Cleveland Guardians or something resembling it. Would need an elite bullpen or  an elite starting staff with that as well though.

[Mike Sixel]

14 hours ago, stringer bell said:

I believe when they both played in St. Paul, Jenkins played center. 

Interesting. All the reviews I read say ERod is a better defender. Shows what I know.

[karcherd]

I hope Martin gets a chance next year but  I don't believe Falvey believes in him and this showed last year when he only got a chance because of injuries and the roster blow up.  Roden and Outman are going to get plenty of run in the outfield before anyone else and they will continue to be run out there regardless of results if history shows anything.  This team i.e. Falvey kept running Gallo out there and let Margot set a pinch hitting futility record.  And why was this, they were his guys and signings.  I hope the younger OF's get a chance next year but based on Falvey's track record they will either have a very short leash or will get no shot all.

[Major League Ready]

38 minutes ago, TNtwins85 said:

Bader and MAT weren’t until much later and it was when they were spending and $8M-$9M for a guy that hit the ball and drove in runs. No matter what his WAR was you can’t deny that in his Twins career. It’s extremely debatable when you look at the numbers put up by all the OFers not named Buxton or Kepler in ‘21 and ‘22 who essentially filled Rosario’s place. Also, just because he hit terrible with those other teams doesn’t mean he would have done the same had he stayed. I’d rather have a guy like Rosario than a guy like Wallner. Irrespective of WAR and all the other numbers Rosario drove in runs. 

You said since he left.  Bader and MAT were since he left but somehow you discount them.  Where letting him go is concerned, I don't care what Rosario did during his Twin's career.  What matters in terms of the decision to let him go is what he produced after they let him go.  I was glad to see him go so that I did not have to watch him take horribly undisciplined ABs and play poor defense.

[stringer bell]

17 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Even with the gaudy BA, Austin Martin scored runs at a slower clip per opportunity (22 R / 181 PA) than Mickey Gasper (15 / 110).  Gasper's not a LF candidate, in case you're going to latch onto that as your rebuttal, but I'm not ready to proclaim Martin anything yet either.  At the plate he's still pretty weak tea and a team full of Martins would struggle to score.

Scoring runs is often collaborative, especially for a singles hitter. The August/September Twins were without three starters after the trade deadline, so it was pretty tough for Martin to score that many runs.

A guy with limited extra base sock needs to excel at getting on base, playing defense and running the bases. Martin struggled at all three in 2024, but was much improved in all facets in 2025.

The margin for Martin is small. I’m confident that he will get a chance to show what he can do in 2026, if he stays healthy. 

[stringer bell]

Taylor played exclusively in center field, so talking about him as a left fielder makes no sense.

Martin missed most of the first half of the 2025 season due to injuries. I don’t think him not being in the majors was an indication of either Baldelli or Falvey not liking his game. 

[chpettit19]

36 minutes ago, karcherd said:

I hope Martin gets a chance next year but  I don't believe Falvey believes in him and this showed last year when he only got a chance because of injuries and the roster blow up.  Roden and Outman are going to get plenty of run in the outfield before anyone else and they will continue to be run out there regardless of results if history shows anything.  This team i.e. Falvey kept running Gallo out there and let Margot set a pinch hitting futility record.  And why was this, they were his guys and signings.  I hope the younger OF's get a chance next year but based on Falvey's track record they will either have a very short leash or will get no shot all.

Martin is a Falvey guy, too. He traded for him. It was his own injuries last year that stopped him from getting a chance earlier in the season. He played more games in the majors than the minors last year because he was hurt for half the year so wasn't playing at all. He wasn't left to rot in AAA, he was on the IL.

[Riverbrian]

Martin platoon?

Short Side? 

If that's the plan... just take him out back and throw him off a cliff. He will have no future value to the club. He will actually immediately become a detriment to our future. Martin will no longer matter. A future pinch running option that will be destined to be replaced by a younger pinch running option. 

If our development plan with the current batch of prospects is to continue strip mining these players for parts just like we did with the last batch. Let's just stop any type of thinking that this front office can develop players. They can't and won't. Might as well throw the front office and manager off the same cliff. 

The 2026 Twins roster should not contain specialists in any form or fashion. If the front office thinks they can cobble together role players and think they can contend with marginal gains using a little of this, little of that. They will fail and fail spectacularly.  

 

[bean5302]

4 hours ago, rv78 said:

It's comical that Keaschall is the proclaimed stud at 2B for 2026 and beyond based on his 207 PA's last year and yet Martin is a questionmark since he only hit well for 181 PA's. We have a plethora of outfielders with Martin hitting .282 last year. Tell me, which outfielder the Twins have in-line to fill those 3 spots hit at a higher average than that? Nope, not even the great Byron Buxton. Who had a higher OBP than the .374 put up by Martin? Nope, not Buxton. If I'm Shelton, Martin is my starting LFer on opening day and doesn't lose the job until someone else proves they are better.

Martin has also been slow to develop with years of uninspiring play at AA-AAA, no power, a long history of poor defensive instincts, and he couldn't hold his own for his first 257 PA at MLB when he was age 25. He seems to be a pretty good contact hitter, but he's got a lot of the plate he doesn't cover well in terms of production so there's plenty of room for regression. Martin's ceiling is hard capped due to his maybe 30 grade game power. 

While there seems to be some overzealous annointing of Keaschall, there's more upside there because Keaschall is only 23 next year and he has a bit more pop. I actually think Keaschall and Martin seem to have a pretty similar skill set on paper, but he was playing at age 22 where Martin was playing at age 26 with about 1,000 PA of high minors experience under his belt last year.

If I'm Shelton, I'd be hoping somebody shows something in Spring Training. I wouldn't be comfortable with Martin, Outman or Roden as a starter out of the gate for a team with any aspirations to compete. Emma will get a look in Spring Training (I so hope they trade him before then) and that should wipe out any trade value Emma has when he K's 50% of the time again, now having already burned 2 options without making his case to see any MLB action.

[bean5302]

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[bean5302]

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[ashbury]

3 hours ago, TNtwins85 said:

I’m not so sure a team full of Austin Martins would be that bad. If you had 7 Martins. A Buxton and another masher I think you have the ‘24 Cleveland Guardians or something resembling it. Would need an elite bullpen or  an elite starting staff with that as well though.

I think you just amplified my point.

I was taking issue with BA being the be-all and end-all.  I will make a similar argument the next time St. Luis de Arraez is mentioned in glowing terms, probably.  They are incomplete hitters.

People complain about analytics, but when actual run-scoring is brought up, it turns out that some of the folks here do like analytics just fine - just their own.  BA was one of the first forms of base-ball analytics (in the earliest days the Batting Champion was the player with the greatest number of hits) and some people still prefer it to forms that take all the many facets of hitting into account, even when it's pointed out that BA alone without power to go with it leads to mediocre-at-best run scoring.

BTW, I took a look and the 2024 Guardians were almost exactly league-average at scoring runs despite posting a below-par .238 BA, because their power numbers were also league-average.  They had plenty of guys with Isolated Power (ISO) .150 or above.  Martin last season had ISO of .083 - this is where his problem is, and Cleveland that season had exactly one regular or semi-regular at that level, Andres Gimenez, plus seldom-used backup catcher Austin Hedges (what is it about guys named Austin?).  I'm not sure Cleveland's the team you want to draw connections to a team (nearly) full of Martins, because they weren't.

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Scoring runs is often collaborative, especially for a singles hitter.

I looked at the list of major league players ranked by runs scored in 2025.  To find someone with fewer than 10 HR, you have to go all the way down to the 33rd ranked run-scorer, Nico Hoerner, who amassed 89 runs; next on the list was Ernie Clement with 83.  Everyone else with low HR totals did worse.  Collaboration?  Apparently, all the power hitters in the majors are failing to do their jobs and drive their small-ball teammates in.

Remember the old timey saying that home run hitters drive Cadillacs and singles hitters drive Fords?  Every one of the 12 players who did score 100 this year had at least 22 HR, and only two had fewer than 30.  You want to find run-scoring, look for the HR hitters  Singles hitters don't score at the rapid clip that people assume they do.  It's not a matter of fame that decides what car a player drives, it's raw productivity.

I'm not saying you can't have a player like Martin on your roster, but let's not elevate him to something that he's not; an on-base machine that generates runs.  We should be looking to do better.  And it's a sad state of affairs for this team that he's far from the biggest problem on offense.

[Alien]

Tippin' my age here, but can we call it "Roden & Martin's Left-In,"

or "Roden & Martin's Left-Field?"

[Riverbrian]

Anointing Austin Martin the everyday LF would be a tragic mistake.

That is nothing against Austin Martin despite his light hitting ways. I think he can help us. I acknowledge that you don't want a team full of Martin types because I agree that slugging gets you further down the road quicker in comparison to simple batting average. Having one or two of them on the team can create a different way of winning a ball game. Players like that can even be inspirational... if they play the game hard. 

However... Every Day? That would be a tragic mistake because: 

A. They can't say that Martin is better than what Roden will be or is now. They can't even say that Martin will be better than Outman in the near future... if they fix Outman this off-season. Keep going down the list. Other than Jenkins... nobody is a guarantee to what they will become. You are just guessing on the margins and opportunity is what will determine success, failure and everything in between. Giving one player (Martin) a full time gig... forsaking others is just compromising your timeline. 

156 innings of solid baseball is still a pretty small sample... you can't commit full time playing time to 156 innings of achievement. If anyone thinks the coaching staff, scouts, manager, front office know... I think it's fair to say that they don't. If they knew... they would make no mistakes and we don't know either.   

B. Martin can also provide an unforeseen value to this club. I know the passionate defensive minded posters on TD will not like this idea but... here goes anyway:

Martin should primarily be OF but... he needs to keep that infield glove nearby and get the occasional infield tune-up. OK... deep breath everyone. Martin's infield ability will allow... almost guarantee... that your favorite outfield prospect is the first call up... even if the injured player that provides the opportunity to be called up is an infielder. 

Only Buxton should play every day. He is the only one who has earned it. The other 4 outfielders on the roster (Whoever they might be) can split up playing time for 3 spots (LF, RF, DH). 4 players... 3 spots. Development on HIGH. 

[DocBauer]

Sorry if I'm going to again repeat comments I've stated previously, but they are part of this discussion. LF, IMO, is also impacted by RF. But LF first. Stick with me here!

Martin seemed to have a breakthrough at AAA last season, and it's just really unfortunate he was plaged early with a bad hamstring injury. We can say his 2 months as a productive and primary player is a SSS, but I'm not sure I buy that based on previous ML experience, and improvement not only with the glove, but also his bat at both levels. If we don't see a big regression, I like Martin to open in LF. He would seem to provide a major upgrade defensively over anyone who has been there the last few years, excepting Bader of course. He also increases team speed and baserunning, which is also a positive.

Maybe I'm a little old fashioned, and I do believe in giving the most AB to your best hitters, but I also believe there is value in an "old school" approach to giving pitchers fits, and getting runners on base for your BEST hitters to have RBI opportunities. Keaschall is born to be a highly productive #1 hitter. If we get an 2026 approximation of what Martin looked like last season, I'd put his contact and OB% ability and speed at #2. At least to start the upcoming season, but more on that to come. And Buxton, and all his power, should hit #3 with, ideally, some baserunners he can drive in.

Roden is not a TOP prospect. But he's also not a bad prospect. And he's not the first rookie to struggle on his initial debut. But he has actual HIT, contact, and solid OB numbers on his resume, along with some power, solid speed, and good defense. And while I believe he MIGHT be a 1B candidate, I see him as a possible 4 position player...able to cover CF decently if needed...he has the potential to be an ideal 4th OF/bench player who might form a nice quasi-platoon in LF with Martin. That means he can give Martin days off against some really tough RHSP but they don't have to be a direct platoon.

UNFORTUNATELY, I'm really worried that Falvey's pride or misplaced optimism will FORCE Outman, possibly ahead of the younger and potential-filled Roden, to be on the roster. 

I think we all agree that would be a huge mistake as we've all seen that Outman is nothing more than a AAAA player you wouldn't mind having in reserve at AAA. He's just NOT a ML player. But let's assume, for a moment, that Falvey puts his pride aside, and he let's roster construction be organic and let Roden make the roster as a much better "prospect" with potential. 

LF and the bench start to look pretty solid with Martin as the primary, and Roden as a solid LH option there, and in RF, CF if/when needed, and maybe even a 1B option for depth purposes at least.

But we honestly can't talk about LF without also discussing RF. I think of it as the "Outman" factor. IF Falvey's pride and stubbornness just REFUSES to let go of Outman...despite logical objections from the rest of reality...Roden could end up in RF, allowing Wallner to be the primary DH. The defense and team speed take a jump, and so might the offense. But is that optimum? NO, IMO.

Martin is not the only young player that lost ML time due to injury. Rodriguez also lost time for the same. When a couple OF injuries hit and McCusker was promoted to sit on the bench, a healthy Rodriguez would have been promoted.

And this is where the rubber meets the road.

The super talented Rodriguez that remains a bit of an enigma, would have probably been brought up before Martin had both been healthy when injuries hit. Rodriguez has tremendous potential. He's still a bit of an unknown. He's probably always going to be a 3 outcome player with good defense and speed. But is that a bad thing? He's probably a faster, better defender than Wallner with a little less power. Again, is that a bad thing?

Rodriguez has PRODUCED at every level he's played at, even with missing some time. And he's had a hell of a good Winter Ball. And he has 1 option remaining. Better he comes to ST and shows his potential early and makes the roster and either RAKES, maybe shows progress, or maybe needs a few weeks back at St Paul for a short re-set before coming back again.

Honestly, with 1 option remaining, would you rather have Rodriguez start the 2026 season with the Twins and run with him, and then send him down for a few weeks and bring him back up? Or would you rather have him spend a month or more at AAA, then bring him up, and then potentially send him back down in July?

That just doesn't make sense to me. If he's healthy and has a solid ST, he's my primary RF to begin 2026 and I'm running with him as long as I can, accepting some growing pains, and knowing I can spend his final option if I think he needs a short term re-set about July 1st-ish.

June 1st or July 1st-ish is also about the same time I see Jenkins ready to debut. 

And this is also when I start to think things potentially begin to change.

I am starting to believe in Martin being the producer he was late in 2025. I like him as the #2 hitter, as previously stated, to begin 2026 behind Keaschall and ahead of Buxton. There's even a chance Lee, which I haven't previously mentioned, could improve enough to take over the #2 spot in the lineup, moving Martin to the #9 spot, to begin 2026. NOT betting on it, but it remains a possibility if Lee's contact ability starts to lead to PRODUCTIVE AVG and OB% with some power mixed in.

Martin as a lineup FLIP secondary leadoff hitter could be excellent. 

BUUUT, at some point in 2026, Rodriguez and Jenkins are going to debut. And that changes the entire OF construction.

In ALL scenarios, Wallner takes over the primary DH, plays OF part time, and that's a good thing. Martin gets an opportunity to prove he's a valuable ML player, even though someone BETTER might move him to a bench spot come June or July. He can still be an important part of a 13 player roster initially, if not the future. Same with Roden as a possible 4th OF, or 1B, or a 4 position depth piece.

You see, LF discussion isn't really just about LF. It's really about LF/RF opening day and about June/July 1st.

And it also opens discussion WHY this team should be dismantled and re-built when there is so much talent about ready to debut and progress, including rotation talent and depth. 

Amazing to me how a LF article seems so limited on the surface. But when you start to actually break it down, it's about the entire OF, and DH. And we barely touched on 1B. And have barely touched the INF, nor SP. But some just assume there isn’t enough talent to continue and we should blow it all up?

[Danchat]

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Martin is a Falvey guy, too. He traded for him. It was his own injuries last year that stopped him from getting a chance earlier in the season. He played more games in the majors than the minors last year because he was hurt for half the year so wasn't playing at all. He wasn't left to rot in AAA, he was on the IL.

I don't know about that, he played 35 games in the minors and was hitting well at AAA for all of July until they finally called him up the day after the trade-a-thon. Seemed to me like that had more to do with them not trusting him over the likes of Bader and Castro rather than giving him an extended period of recovery time, given the timing of the call up.

[The Great Hambino]

On 11/29/2025 at 4:26 PM, Nashvilletwin said:

Gonzalez in LF after the trade deadline (along with ERod in RF and Jenkins in CF). Martin and Rhoden are OFs #4 and #5 for the last 60 games or so. Wallner gets his opportunity to be the primary DH. Buxton oks a trade to get a chance for a ring and the Twins invest valuable MLB innings in their OF of the future.  The fans get something different to watch over the last two months of ‘26 and something to look forward to whenever baseball is played in ‘27.   Win-win-win. 

Getting rid of the only reason to watch this lump of garbage is a win for the fans?  I beg to differ

[TopGunn#22]

Spot On Riverbrian. 

We should all feel better about Martin for what he showed last season, albeit in a small sample size, it was the best stretch of baseball that Martin has ever played for the Twins.  I was very disappointed that the Twins tried to "Change" or "Fix" Austin Martin as a hitter.  Nothing about him coming out of Vandy or in his time in the Blue Jays system (or ours) indicated that there was untapped POWER in his profile.  He made contact, had a good eye and could steal you a base.  As a bottom of the order hitter that's fine.

I've always believed that every major league team should have room somewhere on their roster for a player "like" Martin.  And maybe back in the 60's and 70's and even early 80's, the way they played the game that was the case.  I think Martin belongs on the major league roster to start the season.  But in today's game, you need sluggers in LF and RF unless that player brings "Elite" skills like Steven Kwan.

Still, with his and Roden's superior defense, our OF in the corners should be far superior than anything Wallner or Larnach provided.  Roden's sample size is just too small for me.  he's got my benefit of the doubt.  But his lease is not endless, especially with guys like Walker Jenkins, Em-Rod and Gabe Gonzalez on the way as well as whatever may come in any future off season trades.  

There's nothing wrong with a platoon, as long as it WORKS.  The Pirates had a couple of excellent platoon combos in the early 1970's...Gene Clines & Vic Davalillo.  Al Oliver and Bob Robertson.  

Martin has EARNED something, but he shouldn't be gifted anything.  LF has a chance to be BETTER than last season.  It also has a chance to be worse.  

A few thoughts: 

Martin should keep his IF glove oiled and ready.  He can play a passable 2B.  Keaschall may flop next season, but I liked what I saw about his approach at the plate, the way he was able to consistently put the ball in play, and by his aggressive baserunning.  I'm thinking Keaschall will do well next year.  Willi Castro was a good Utility player, but he was not a great fielder at any of them. They award a Gold Glove to Utility players now and while Willi was average at 2B, 3B and LF he was below average at SS & CF.   

 I'm not convinced that the Red Sox trading for Sonny Gray means the Twins will hang on to Joe Ryan.  Here are 2 possible trades that were proposed on BBTV:

Dodgers get: Jarren Duran 49.5 (Total)     

Twins Get: Dalton Rushing  36.9 24 y/o C   Jackson Ferris 12.7  25 y/o SP and Luis Peroles  17.3  23 y/o SP for a total of (66.9).  Red Sox get:  Joe Ryan 52.7 30 y/o SP and Ryan Jeffers 12.7  29 y/o C.  Total (65.4)

OR...

Giants get:  Jeffers 12.7   Joe Ryan 52.7  and Trev Larnach 3.3 (29 y/o).  Total Value (68.7).                    Twins get:  Patrick Bailey 39.7  27 y/o C   Casey Schmitt 10.5  27 y/o 3B/1B  Hayden Birdsong 8.7 24 y/o SP/RP and Carson Whisenhunt 7.1  25 y/o SP.  Total Value  (66.0).  All these players spent time on the Giants major league roster last year.    

I could live with either trade.  Each one adds a guy who would be our primary Catcher of the future (especially with Jeffers not being here in 2027) and additional pitching to allow a trade of Ober, Matthews, SWR or any of the above acquired pitchers to add other pieces.  

 

[The Great Hambino]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

I think you just amplified my point.

I was taking issue with BA being the be-all and end-all.  I will make a similar argument the next time St. Luis de Arraez is mentioned in glowing terms, probably.  They are incomplete hitters.

People complain about analytics, but when actual run-scoring is brought up, it turns out that some of the folks here do like analytics just fine - just their own.  BA was one of the first forms of base-ball analytics (in the earliest days the Batting Champion was the player with the greatest number of hits) and some people still prefer it to forms that take all the many facets of hitting into account, even when it's pointed out that BA alone without power to go with it leads to mediocre-at-best run scoring.

BTW, I took a look and the 2024 Guardians were almost exactly league-average at scoring runs despite posting a below-par .238 BA, because their power numbers were also league-average.  They had plenty of guys with Isolated Power (ISO) .150 or above.  Martin last season had ISO of .083 - this is where his problem is, and Cleveland that season had exactly one regular or semi-regular at that level, Andres Gimenez, plus seldom-used backup catcher Austin Hedges (what is it about guys named Austin?).  I'm not sure Cleveland's the team you want to draw connections to a team (nearly) full of Martins, because they weren't.

The idea that "we should quote it as gospel because it's the best they could come up with in 1890" should speak for itself.

If BA is your go-to stat, then you are telling people that you think walks and power have zero value.

[Major League Ready]

With a little luck the entire outfield could be pleasantly surprising.  Wouldn't it be nice to be pleasantly surprised for once?  The optimist in me thinks Jenkins, Rodriguez, and Gonzalez all have the ability to make a Keaschall type impact.  With a little luck things get very interesting in June/July.  

[chpettit19]

2 hours ago, Danchat said:

I don't know about that, he played 35 games in the minors and was hitting well at AAA for all of July until they finally called him up the day after the trade-a-thon. Seemed to me like that had more to do with them not trusting him over the likes of Bader and Castro rather than giving him an extended period of recovery time, given the timing of the call up.

No, he hit well in AAA before he was hurt. In July he hit .243/.379/.314/.694 after returning from injury on the 26th of June.

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, The Great Hambino said:

The idea that "we should quote it as gospel because it's the best they could come up with in 1890" should speak for itself.

If BA is your go-to stat, then you are telling people that you think walks and power have zero value.

Nor should one ignore BA, and, for example, quote SLG as a singular point in advocating for a hitter.

Give me BA/OBP/SLG as a quick measure of a hitter.