Are the Twins Becoming the American League’s Version of the Pittsburgh Pirates?

[GNess]

A small-mid spending team like the Twins has even more pressure to draft well. Here are the first round picks for the Twins since 2015:

2015 Tyler Jay 2016 Alex Kirilloff 2017 Royce Lewis  / Brent Rooker 2018 Trevor Larnach 2019 Keoni Cavaco

2020 Aaron Sabato 2021 Chase Petty / Noah Miller 2022 Brooks Lee 2023 Walker Jenkins ./ Charlee Soto 

2024 Kalen Culpepper 2025 Marek Houston / Riley Quick

Looks mediocre at best. 

[Craig Arko]

12 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Somebody has to write articles every day.

Why?

[bean5302]

3 hours ago, Patzky said:

If the Pohlads would just come out and state 'Pablo Lopez is your opening day starter..'

You want the Pohlads making roster construction decisions?

[Cory Engelhardt]

1 hour ago, Woof Bronzer said:

By this logic TD would shut down until April.  If fans didn't "worry about something before it happens" we wouldn't have sports radio, ESPN, sites like Twins Daily, etc.   The point is to talk about sports.  

Yeah, but going into it with a doom and gloom/sky is falling right away and worrying about something that may or may not happen, why have that?

I truly sometimes don't miss the days of NOT having 24/7 news all the time. Maybe that makes me old. 

[Cory Engelhardt]

20 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Somebody has to write articles every day. Not every day has something actually happening.

Does someone HAVE to write an article every day though? Like for real, is that TRULY necessary?

[bean5302]

The Twins have run double the Pirates' payroll. The objective of the team, according to the ownership is the World Series. Nobody is looking to Pittsburgh on how to do that.

This article is pretty much rage baiting.

[USAFChief]

7 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Does someone HAVE to write an article every day though? Like for real, is that TRULY necessary?

This is a for-profit site. They make money by getting views. Content drives views.

So yes. I'd imagine they expect their writing team to put out daily content.

At, uh...Twins Daily.

Now, if people want smoke blown up their collective asses, I guess that could be done.

Personally, I'd rather the editorial marching orders be an attempt at honesty, good or bad. Call it like you see it.

And again, Personally, I think there's precious little good about this organization to write about currently.  I'd be hard pressed to come up with bunnies and unicorns to write about....daily. 

 

[Cory Engelhardt]

1 minute ago, USAFChief said:

This is a for-profit site. They make money by getting views. Content drives views.

So yes. I'd imagine they expect their writing team to put out daily content.

At, uh...Twins Daily.

Now, if people want smoke blown up their collective asses, I guess that could be done.

Personally, I'd rather the editorial marching orders be an attempt at honesty, good or bad. Call it like you see it.

And again, Personally, I think there's precious little good about this organization to write about currently.  I'd be hard pressed to come up with bunnies and unicorns to write about....daily. 

 

Yup, I don't see a lot of positive either. I will add, if someone came out and wrote an article on why the Twins should and will sign Pete Alonso or some other name free agent this offseason I'd also understand this is a daily operation. 

 

[nicksaviking]

1 minute ago, USAFChief said:

And again, Personally, I think there's precious little good about this organization to write about currently.  I'd be hard pressed to come up with bunnies and unicorns to write about....daily. 

 

I would like to read an article about which Twins are more like bunnies and which ones are more like unicorns.

 

[Swing Batter-Batter]

3 hours ago, Patzky said:

If the Pohlads would just come out and state 'Pablo Lopez is your opening day starter..'

For what team though?

[Riverbrian]

25 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Does someone HAVE to write an article every day though? Like for real, is that TRULY necessary?

I don't like it either. In another thread... I call it feeding the beast. 

But the truth is... Yes it is TRULY necessary and there is really no exit off this interstate.  

Without content there is no reason to visit this site. Without reason to visit the site, the numbers go down. Content has to be produced daily to keep numbers up and the truth is... There isn't daily content.

So, different approaches to the same content is all you have to work with.

And the sad part is... These types of articles work. The more shocking the headline, the more people that click on it.   

In the end... It's our fault... We click on it... When we click on it. We get more of it. 

So... As much as I don't like it. I'm to blame for it.   

[Craig Arko]

Just now, Riverbrian said:

I don't like it either. In another thread... I call it feeding the beast. 

But the truth is... Yes it is TRULY necessary and there is really no exit off this interstate.  

Without content there is no reason to visit this site. Without reason to visit the site, the numbers are down. Content has to be produced daily to keep numbers up and the truth is... There isn't daily content. So, different approaches to the same content is all you have to work with.

And the sad part is... These types of articles work. The more shocking the headline, more people click on it.   

In the end... It's our fault... We click on it... When we click on it. We get more of it.   

Maybe they could start selling extended warranties. TwinsDailyShield; kinda has a ring to it.

[Cory Engelhardt]

5 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I don't like it either. In another thread... I call it feeding the beast. 

But the truth is... Yes it is TRULY necessary and there is really no exit off this interstate.  

Without content there is no reason to visit this site. Without reason to visit the site, the numbers go down. Content has to be produced daily to keep numbers up and the truth is... There isn't daily content.

So, different approaches to the same content is all you have to work with.

And the sad part is... These types of articles work. The more shocking the headline, the more people that click on it.   

In the end... It's our fault... We click on it... When we click on it. We get more of it. 

So... As much as I don't like it. I'm to blame for it.   

You know, I am too.

 

I guess if articles have to be written daily though, the arizona fall league is going on. Not that I'm the one choosing content, but both Hendry Mendez and Brandon Winokur played yesterday in their game. 

Just throwing out ideas :)

[jmlease1]

1 hour ago, Ricky Vaughn said:

I don't see the comparison. The Pirates have been winning 65-75 games a year for what. the last 15 years . They compare more with the St Louis Browns. The Twins have a way to go before reaching that level.

It's actually been exactly 10 seasons in a row of losing records for the Pirates; they had a nice 3 year run with McCutchen where they made the playoffs with some good teams that couldn't get out for the first round. Very Twins-like.

Of course they had 20 years of losing records and no playoffs from 1993-2012 after losing Bonds...

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

You know, I am too.

 

I guess if articles have to be written daily though, the arizona fall league is going on. Not that I'm the one choosing content, but both Hendry Mendez and Brandon Winokur played yesterday in their game. 

Just throwing out ideas :)

It's one of the things I appreciate about Twinsdaily. I can typically find this type of stuff if I want to read about Mendez and Winokur and I do. 

For me... Twinsdaily is important because I can't have in depth conversations at another level about the Twins or baseball with people in my regular life (Family, Friends). 

I can't talk about Mendez because my neighbor has no idea who Mendez is. But my neighbor knows the Pirates suck and he thinks the Twins suck and Pohlads are cheap and that is the extent of his baseball knowledge.   

My Neighbor will click on this headline. Yeah... The Pirates suck... The Twins Suck...The Pohlads are cheap... The narrative is reinforced and the mob grows larger.   

Unfortunately... My neighbor won't click on Mendez and Winokur. 

[Sjoski]

Q: Are the Twins becoming the Pirates?

They are over 80% of the way there and the slide towards home is already in motion. 

□ Shrinking payroll

□ Declining attendance

□ Trading controllable players for “flexibility.”

□ Both ownerships value cost control over competitiveness.

The Twins will complete their slide into the American League’s version of the Pirates, it's just a matter of time.

 

 

[Cory Engelhardt]

3 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

It's one of the things I appreciate about Twinsdaily. I can typically find this type of stuff if I want to read about Mendez and Winokur and I do. 

For me... Twinsdaily is important because I can't have in depth conversations at another level about the Twins or baseball with people in my regular life (Family, Friends). 

I can't talk about Mendez because my neighbor has no idea who Mendez is. But my neighbor knows the Pirates suck and he thinks the Twins suck and Pohlads are cheap and that is the extent of his baseball knowledge.   

My Neighbor will click on this headline. Yeah... The Pirates suck... The Twins Suck...The Pohlads are cheap... The narrative is reinforced and the mob grows larger.   

Unfortunately... My neighbor won't click on Mendez and Winokur. 

Right there with you. My kids aren't baseball fans, so I very much appreciate having twinsdaily for any conversation about baseball. It was one of my first loves, the game itself, and having baseball to still talk about is certainly a great escape from reality in many ways. No doubt :)

[Woof Bronzer]

53 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Why?

This is a website whose entire purpose is to write articles about the Twins every day.  Like, it's literally in the name:  Twins DAILY.

[Craig Arko]

1 minute ago, Woof Bronzer said:

This is a website whose entire purpose is to write articles about the Twins every day.  Like, it's literally in the name:  Twins DAILY.

Are you familiar with this term?

[Woof Bronzer]

49 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Does someone HAVE to write an article every day though? Like for real, is that TRULY necessary?

For real, is it NECESSARY to ever write an article about the Twins?

This instinct to police what people think and write is very disturbing.  I know that's the America we're living in, I get it, but this is a very bad look.  What you think is deserving of an article might be very different than what I think.  And telling people how to think and write is a recipe for disaster.  TD often publishes things I don't agree with.  Great.  That's life.  Nobody is forcing you to read the articles.  

[Woof Bronzer]

3 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Are you familiar with this term?

Haha yes.  If you believe that allowing people to think and write what they want makes the site worse, than I disagree.  A site where everyone is in lockstep with the same opinions and other takes are shouted down sounds like the sh***est possible site imaginable.    

[Cory Engelhardt]

9 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

For real, is it NECESSARY to ever write an article about the Twins?

This instinct to police what people think and write is very disturbing.  I know that's the America we're living in, I get it, but this is a very bad look.  What you think is deserving of an article might be very different than what I think.  And telling people how to think and write is a recipe for disaster.  TD often publishes things I don't agree with.  Great.  That's life.  Nobody is forcing you to read the articles.  

No one is policing what people can or can't write. I don't understand how you are jumping to that conclusion.

I'm also not someone who GENERALLY worries about things that are outside of my control or that have or haven't happened. Especially when it relates to things that truly don't matter in the grand scheme of things, like a past time. Plenty of other things to worry about that are very real.

I'll give you an example. The baseball draft lottery will be at the winter meetings in December. Probably around December 8-10th at some point. Inevitably, wherever the Twins end up for the MLB draft in July 2026, there is going to be columns written about potential players they could draft with the pick they have. Also inevitably, there are absolutely going to be comments under each of those articles on every single player that's written about that'll say something to the effect of "Doesn't matter who they pick, that player is going to get injured or the Twins will screw up that players' future" in some capacity right? Such is life in the comments section I suppose. But if an article is written about a player and WHY that player is doomed, I have a hard time backing that premise as the future hasn't happened yet, right? That's all I'm saying.

Same with this premise. The Twins are becoming a laughing stock because they MIGHT trade Pablo Lopez. I don't see how anyone connects those dots without an action being taken. If the Twins keep Pablo there will be people who think they are a laughing stock already, right? And if they trade him, the comments will be louder in that regard, especially with whatever the return actually is.

Basically, you are feeding the beast either way. I just choose to not put as much energy into writing about things that haven't happened is all. Do you use a lot of energy worrying about things that haven't come to pass?

[Woof Bronzer]

1 minute ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

No one is policing what people can or can't write. I don't understand how you are jumping to that conclusion.

You keep saying people shouldn't write negative articles, because in your opinion they aren't "necessary".  Not sure what other conclusion I should be jumping to.  What was the point of your grievance then?  What's your solution to whatever problem you are posing?

2 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Do you use a lot of energy worrying about things that haven't come to pass?

Not nearly as much as you seem to worry about other people writing about things that haven't come to pass.  

[The Great Hambino]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

It's not the commissioner that doesnt want a salary cap and floor. It's the MLBPA fighting tooth and nail.

I don' think it's that simple.  The commissioner and his owners want a cap, but they've done nothing to indicate that they want a floor - at least not one that would have any meaningful impact.  The closest thing I can find to their thoughts on a floor is the pathetic $100MM they offered in the last round of CBA negotiations.  Why would the MLBPA even consider an offer that chops hundreds of millions off the top end of team payrolls while only requiring a handful of teams to spend a fraction more?  That's not competitive balance; that's salary suppression.  I'm not interested in more of my money spent being a fan going to owners and less going to players.

I know increased revenue sharing goes hand in hand with any kind of arrangement proposed by the owners (and it should), but they have proven through the actions of some owners - as well as the tolerance of those actions by the others - that they are fine with it being pocketed by the Nuttings and Fishers of the world instead of being reinvested into payroll.  Why on earth would the MLBPA not fight against this tooth and nail?  It would be malpractice if they didn't.

A salary cap could bring the competitive balance that everyone wants.  The other leagues are proof that if set up properly, then all stakeholders - owners, players, broadcast networks, fans - can benefit.  The rich teams of those leagues that seemingly have the most to lose in those arrangements have seen their franchise values increase exponentially as the rising tide has lifted all boats.   But that requires two things the owners have thus far shown no willingness to do: 

1. Install a high floor in the 75-90% range that the other leagues have

2. Transparency in determining the revenue figures used to peg the levels of caps and floors.  That means opening the books to the MLBPA as well as third-party analysts to not just identify the revenue, but proper adjustments for things like team-owned networks, team-controlled revenue generated around the park, etc.  The NBA, for example, calls it "basketball-related income."  It took a lot of pain to work it out, but the league has flourished ever since.

If the owners are willing to do these things and the players still fight against the cap, or fight against the revenue sharing that would make this work, then by all means, vilify the MLBPA as they would fully deserve it.  But until then, the owners can take their cap and shove it

[Cory Engelhardt]

5 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

You keep saying people shouldn't write negative articles, because in your opinion they aren't "necessary".  Not sure what other conclusion I should be jumping to.  What was the point of your grievance then?  What's your solution to whatever problem you are posing?

Not nearly as much as you seem to worry about other people writing about things that haven't come to pass.  

I have no problem with writing articles of any kind. People can do that. Positive/negative, I'm trying to answer YOUR question here. 

This type of article here reminds me so much of the premise from the movie Office Space and having a Jump to conclusions mat. That's all I'm really trying to say here. 

[David Maro]

If there is a reason to compare this organization to the Pirates it's because of the FO. All the talk about payroll is getting old. The FO has made bad FA signings again and again. First was signing washed up pitchers to try and fill a rotation. Then the biggest mistake of all signing Donaldson who didn't fit the team. To add insult to injury signing Correa to a one year walk away deal. Then after he couldn't get a deal anywhere else sign him to a deal that couldn't be kept. And last but not least signing Lopez who lost half the season to injury. 

Then to make things really fall apart keeping a manager in 25 after the total collapse of 24. Looking at the Pirates they had seen enough of their manager and dismissed him early. And he of course was the bench coach for Rocco before taking the Pirate job.

[Woof Bronzer]

16 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I have no problem with writing articles of any kind. People can do that. Positive/negative, I'm trying to answer YOUR question here. 

This type of article here reminds me so much of the premise from the movie Office Space and having a Jump to conclusions mat. That's all I'm really trying to say here. 

 Office Space - now THAT is something we can agree on!

[bunsen82]

2 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

By this logic TD would shut down until April.  If fans didn't "worry about something before it happens" we wouldn't have sports radio, ESPN, sites like Twins Daily, etc.   The point is to talk about sports.  

But is the point to compare an illness to ebola when it may just be the flu?  The overdramatization and perpetual and doom and gloom gets a little over whelming.  The majority of the articles of the last week have extrapolated a single quote from Joe Pohlad - "The goal is to win a World Series. That doesn't mean it doesn't come with some pain in the short-term."   "You now what? We've got to try something different. And not everyone is going to like it."   "You've got to own it. Fans are going to be upset. They're going to say what they're going to say.  And you gotta keep moving forward, and trust that you're making the right decision."   

I have said since 2020 we should do a tear down and rebuild.  We have been in the level of mediocrity with slightly more positive than negative years really since 2018.  The tear down at the deadline, resulted in some decent pieces for the future,  and a high draft pick (and remaining picks) in what should be a pretty strong draft.  So the question is the short term pain is it over?  Personally I think it is 50/50.  Wow way to go out on a limb.  I have said in other articles Falvey has an incentive to have a strong year as I am not sure he gets another year even if it was the plan.  For example, I am sure Baldelli was told that the Twins were going to lose a lot of games after the deadline,  and the Pohlads had him tossed to the scrap heap after all those losses whether to qualm some fan dissent or for legitimate reasons.  So it is in Falvey's best interest to have a good team this year.  Lets say they don't. At most the Twins could benefit from tanking for 1 more year.  That is it.  The Twins cannot get back to back lottery tickets for more than 2 years in a row.   It is also a question of how good will the draft be in 2027  This current one is being viewed fairly positively.  So is it truly worthwhile to tank for another year?  That is an unknown.  So was the short term pain this deadline with the start of rebuild that culminates with a competitive team in 2027? Or a continued tear down that the rebuild begins in earnest in 2027? Houston and currently Baltimore are teams that have tore things down to the studs for a couple years and rebuilt with varying levels of performance.  Its a model that works.   It however is not a guarantee of success demonstrated by the Pirates. So that leaves us with where are we for 2026. 

We have gotten GM speak from Falvey before,  but his statement was he intends for this team to have both Pablo and Ryan.  He could have easily said we want to keep all players, but we will evaluate each situation and offer that comes our way.  That would have been a perfectly fine response.  He didn't say that though -  He said its his expectation they are on the team, but granted it was not a certainty.   Yes it leaves him an out, but that is a pretty clean and clear statement of where he wants to go with this.  Most likely the high point to trade Ryan would have been at the deadline. So ultimately I am being just as wish washy as Falvey and interpreting Joe's quotes, but ultimately I do think they try to roll out a good team for next year.   

[nicksaviking]

53 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

I don' think it's that simple.  The commissioner and his owners want a cap, but they've done nothing to indicate that they want a floor - at least not one that would have any meaningful impact.  The closest thing I can find to their thoughts on a floor is the pathetic $100MM they offered in the last round of CBA negotiations.  Why would the MLBPA even consider an offer that chops hundreds of millions off the top end of team payrolls while only requiring a handful of teams to spend a fraction more?  That's not competitive balance; that's salary suppression.  I'm not interested in more of my money spent being a fan going to owners and less going to players.

The owners probably aren't going to propose a floor, even though they know they will need one within 90% of the cap, because they'll make the MLBPA demand it. Then the owners get to act like it's a concession they are making, instead of the logical companion to the cap they want.

[JADBP]

5 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Sky is falling articles or comments are hard for me to take.

Why not just let the offseason play out?

Lol. Too late . . .  The sky has already fallen!