Lewis' view on playing 2B

[mnfireman]

Not a good look for the young "superstar" (as he is called by some on here)...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/royce-lewis-is-pretty-much-refusing-to-play-2nd-base-for-the-minnesota-twins/ar-AA1pVzLS

[Mike Sixel]

Agreed. Not a good look. The idea he can't play the OF is ridiculous also. He's not healthy enough to demand anything. 

Betts and Cruz are perfectly fine moving around. Maybe he should talk to Mookie

[wabene]

This is the young man's mercurial phase, the first failure can be hard, but oh man that smile...

[Danchat]

If anything, Lewis feeling that he is unprepared to play 2B is in line with what many think here - they're trying to make these guys versatile when they're not and not fully preparing them to play at these positions. No wonder Lewis messes up the play at 2B the other day. And this isn't just a major league thing, it's been an issue in the minors.

[Vanimal46]

“I’m terrified out there. Little things like that are just adding extra elements to a September push that’s important to me. I don’t know. We have plenty of really good second basemen, and I don’t want to mess up our defense just because we’re going to try something new. It’s not spring training or Triple-A for that.”

Royce Lewis on the idea of playing more 2nd base (per the article sourced)

That’s a tough look for Royce. Clearly playing 2B is not ideal but he has to know it’s temporary due to injuries. This is a life lesson as a leader, Royce. Embrace the tough times filling in where you can as a young, athletic player. 

[mnfireman]

If Lewis did not go into a prolonged slump he would have a little more leverage to stake a claim to one position, but he did slump and Miranda got hot.

Miranda and Lee are better defensive options at 3B right now, but Lee should be at SS over Castro everyday.

Julien is hitting better lately, but his defense is as bad or worse than Lewis'.

4 guys for 3 spots (Castro should be in CF until Buxton is back). Miranda does not play 2B and Lee, the best with the glove of the 4, should be at SS everyday. So the rotation is between 2B, 3B and DH among Lewis, Julien (who doesn't play against LHP) and Miranda (who will also get a day or 2 at 1B). Since nobody wants Farmer playing, Lewis has to agree to play 2B some days, period. Or he sits.

[Riverbrian]

I just want to take a moment and remind everyone that the people on this website will be voting on November 6 and good luck to the rest of us. 

Hopefully, a small minority of us noticed that this thing was posted Tuesday. 

Hopefully a small minority of us noticed that this thing quotes Monday. 

Hopefully a small minority of us noticed that he has since played 2B on Wednesday. 

Not a GOOD LOOK? So he gets punched in the mouth for speaking his opinion on Monday. Plays 2B anyway on Wednesday and it's not a GOOD LOOK? Which part is not a good look... the being honest part or the actually doing something that he had reservations doing part? 

We are really really screwed as a society because the majority of us will read this and tell others that Royce Lewis is refusing. 

 

[Craig Arko]

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

We are really really screwed as a society because the majority of us will read this and tell others that Royce Lewis is refusing. 

 

More so because people are figuring out what they’re going to say without bothering to read or comprehend at all.

[Riverbrian]

7 hours ago, Danchat said:

No wonder Lewis messes up the play at 2B the other day.

He didn't mess up the play at 2B the other day. 

The runner on first is off with the pitch. The odds of getting him at 2nd was low.

If he goes for it and doesn't get it... we would all be talking about how an experienced 2nd baseman makes the throw home. If he drills the runner in the back trying to make the play at 2nd because he would have had to throw around the runner which would require additional time to get in position to throw around the runner. We would be talking about how an experienced 2B would have thrown home. The runner was off with the pitch. He was stealing second base to stay out of the double play. 

HOME WAS THE RIGHT PLAY!!! The throw home was nearly perfect for tag application. The runner is out at home if Vazquez handles the nearly perfect throw. 

[Riverbrian]

Do the Math. 

Think it through. 

The playoffs are coming soon.

Here are some questions for the aghast crowd? 

How do you play Lewis, Miranda, Santana, Larnach, Wallner and Kepler in the same lineup? 

Take your time... work the puzzle. 

Who plays SS or CF if either Correa or Buxton is hurt for the playoffs? Correa still can't get into spikes. Buxton just suffered a set back. They are not the picture of health... Lewis hasn't been either. 

Assuming Castro is the answer in both cases. Who plays 2B if Castro is in SS or CF? Yes we can throw some low OPS names to play the spots but I'd like to point out that the highest OPS on the team is working the corners. Lewis, Miranda, Santana, Larnach, Wallner. 

So if Lewis remains at 3B because he has some concerns. Here's the final question. Between Miranda, Santana, Larnach, Wallner and Kepler. Who sits so Castro or Lee or Julien can play 2B? 

One last question... from the group of Lewis, Miranda, Santana, Larnach, Wallner and Kepler that are playing the corner spots. Who makes the most sense to move to a middle spot? 

Think it through. Don't take too long thinking about it because it's September 6th and the playoffs start in three weeks.  

 

[lecroy24fan]

I don't think Royce is speaking negatively at all. I think he is being truthful and honest. I agree with him on the timing, especially for someone who has moved positions and gotten hurt almost instantly. Also I don't see him saying he doesn't want to play there he's saying they have plenty of 2B, which is also true although not being able to use Castro there currently does take some of that away.

[wabene]

I'm biased because I've been saying for a while that Lewis should move to 2nd or even left if it benefitted the team. This lineup needs the best bats playing. He can do it, there may be some growing pains, but he is a ballplayer. Lewis is not a short stop. Even Miranda has looked better at 3rd, and Jose's bat must be in the lineup. Lewis is used to being talked about as a phenom, a superstar. In the last 28 days he has an OPS of .614. He has been asked to move positions. How does he handle this situation? His first rough stretch at the big league level. This is the stretch run, everybody has to lay it all on the table. I hope the young man rises to the occasion in the field and at the plate.

[Parfigliano]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Do the Math. 

Think it through. 

The playoffs are coming soon.

Here are some questions for the aghast crowd? 

How do you play Lewis, Miranda, Santana, Larnach, Wallner and Kepler in the same lineup? 

Take your time... work the puzzle. 

Who plays SS or CF if either Correa or Buxton is hurt for the playoffs? Correa still can't get into spikes. Buxton just suffered a set back. They are not the picture of health... Lewis hasn't been either. 

Assuming Castro is the answer in both cases. Who plays 2B if Castro is in SS or CF? Yes we can throw some low OPS names to play the spots but I'd like to point out that the highest OPS on the team is working the corners. Lewis, Miranda, Santana, Larnach, Wallner. 

So if Lewis remains at 3B because he has some concerns. Here's the final question. Between Miranda, Santana, Larnach, Wallner and Kepler. Who sits so Castro or Lee or Julien can play 2B? 

One last question... from the group of Lewis, Miranda, Santana, Larnach, Wallner and Kepler that are playing the corner spots. Who makes the most sense to move to a middle spot? 

Think it through. Don't take too long thinking about it because it's September 6th and the playoffs start in three weeks.  

 

Answer to the first question is dont start Kepler.

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Answer to the first question is dont start Kepler.

You'll find some that will argue with you on that because this type of thing is pretty subjective around these parts and Kepler has his fans on this website. 

I won't argue with you on the decision to bench Kepler.    

Lewis can certainly remain at 3B if Kepler is on the bench. Wallner RF, Larnach LF, Lewis 3B, Santana 1B and Miranda DH. It works for me.  

If everyone is healthy come playoff time. You have chosen Castro at 2B at the expense of Kepler. I'd probably do the same. 

If Correa is hurt or Buxton is hurt. Castro is no longer a 2B option in the playoffs... He is our SS or CF.

Now you are choosing Julien, Lee or Martin over Kepler. This gets a little harder to digest and right now Carlos Correa can't put his spikes on. Buxton has had a set back.   

Injuries... are such a wild card. All this Lewis at 2B drama could all be for naught because: 

A. Lewis could be the guy hurt for the playoffs

B. Wallner, Larnach, Santana, Miranda or Kepler... Any of those 5 could be hurt for the playoffs. If that's the case... there is no need to move Lewis anywhere because we need a 3B and this 2B drama is just pointless. 

This is all just getting ready for as many things that Baseball is going to possibly throw at us in the next month.

Teams need to do this because getting caught flat footed come playoff time is worse than Lewis playing 2B in Tampa. 100 times worse.       

 

 

 

[USAFChief]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

He didn't mess up the play at 2B the other day. 

The runner on first is off with the pitch. The odds of getting him at 2nd was low.

If he goes for it and doesn't get it... we would all be talking about how an experienced 2nd baseman makes the throw home. If he drills the runner in the back trying to make the play at 2nd because he would have had to throw around the runner which would require additional time to get in position to throw around the runner. We would be talking about how an experienced 2B would have thrown home. The runner was off with the pitch. He was stealing second base to stay out of the double play. 

HOME WAS THE RIGHT PLAY!!! The throw home was nearly perfect for tag application. The runner is out at home if Vazquez handles the nearly perfect throw. 

With all due respect...bull****.

Some might say what you'll say they would say.

But don't put words in all our mouths.

Lewis was positioned to go for a DP on a sharp ground ball. He got a sharp ground ball. Even with the runner in motion from 1st, there was time. 

If they wanted to cut off the run, He would have been playing in. He wasn't.

He made the wrong play. 

 

 

[USAFChief]

As for playing Lewis at 2nd base, it's what the Twins do.

They believe anybody can play anywhere. 

Which, of course, is literally true.

But then we can't be surprised when they play crappy baseball. Nor can they. 

IMO good organizations--good managers--don't ask that from their teams.

Margins are small at the MLB level. Not making plays that could and should be made will get you beat pretty often.

 

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

With all due respect...bull****.

Some might say what you'll say they would say.

But Lewis was positioned to go for a DP on a sharp ground ball. He got a sharp ground ball. Even with the runner in motion from 1st, there was time. 

 

 

He may have got the runner at 2nd. It would have been close but there was too high a probability that he wouldn't have. It would have been close either way but if he was going to get him at 2nd... He had no time to make that decision. The runner was stealing 2B to stay out of the double play and he would have had to reposition to throw around the runner. 

Once the runner is past him... he knows the runner is stealing. His mindset is going to change to home... on that alone.   

If you are going to tell me that you expect Kyle Farmer, Willi Castro, Tommy Herr, Chase Utley, Jose Altuve and Ryne Sandberg to instinctively through experience and talent throw to second in that situation. I don't believe that for a second. 

The play was at the plate. 

[USAFChief]

11 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Agreed. Not a good look. The idea he can't play the OF is ridiculous also. He's not healthy enough to demand anything. 

Betts and Cruz are perfectly fine moving around. Maybe he should talk to Mookie

Betts moved to SS with an offseason and spring training to prepare.

And it didn't go well.

And he's back in RF.

[USAFChief]

6 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

He may have got the runner at 2nd. It would have been close but there was too high a probability that he wouldn't have. It would have been close either way but if he was going to get him at 2nd... He had no time to make that decision. The runner was stealing 2B to stay out of the double play and he would have had to reposition to throw around the runner. 

Once the runner is past him... he knows the runner is stealing. His mindset is going to change to home... on that alone.   

If you are going to tell me that you expect Kyle Farmer, Willi Castro, Tommy Herr, Chase Utley, Jose Altuve and Ryne Sandberg to instinctively through experience and talent throw to second in that situation. I don't believe that for a second. 

The play was at the plate. 

Well, for one thing, Herr, Utley and Sandberg probably don't even have the armstrength any more to make either throw.

They're pretty old.

[Riverbrian]

5 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Betts moved to SS with an offseason and spring training to prepare.

And it didn't go well.

And he's back in RF.

Betts spent the off-season and spring training preparing for 2B in 2024. Lux was preparing for SS in 2024. Lux at SS didn't go well so they moved Betts to SS and Lux back to 2B. Managers make decisions like this based on what makes the team better.   

Betts moved back to the OF because the Dodgers sent Outman to the minors. Later on they sent Pages to the minor leagues and they released Jason Heyward because the OF hasn't been performing. Last year it was the IF that was struggling and getting hurt. Rojas is hitting better this year while the OF collapsed on them so Betts flows to the low spot. 

It was 2023 when the Dodgers abruptly moved Betts to 2B and SS out of the Dodger blue. The reason they did that. Necessity is the mother of invention. Dave Roberts will play his players wherever it makes his overall lineup stronger. Vargas and Rojas were not hitting the ball in 2023. Peralta, Outman and Heyward were holding down the OF and producing so Betts goes IF.   

The Dodgers move players around all the time to fit what the team needs of them and they do it all the time.  

[Riverbrian]

40 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

As for playing Lewis at 2nd base, it's what the Twins do.

They believe anybody can play anywhere. 

Which, of course, is literally true.

But then we can't be surprised when they play crappy baseball. Nor can they. 

IMO good organizations--good managers--don't ask that from their teams.

Margins are small at the MLB level. Not making plays that could and should be made will get you beat pretty often.

 

I agree that the margins are small. I also agree that not making plays... giving teams an extra out increases the odds of a crooked number and I believe the crooked number creates losses. We are not arguing that point. 

I disagree that good managers don't ask that from their teams. 

This isn't a Twins thing. All teams move players around based on team needs. Some players will remain at the same position but you will see in-season adjustments from managers based on need. 

My fantasy baseball league has multi-position eligible players all over the place. 😄

[Mike Sixel]

He might not be refusing, but he's not in the *l" I'll do whatever the team needs to win" camp...

[wabene]

Maybe they should move Lewis to wide receiver, lol.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

This is all secondary effects from making the huge bet on Carlos Correa as the shortstop of the future, instead of Lewis or Lee.

A so-called “good problem to have” with too many position players is still a problem, and in this case, it’s becoming a bigger problem.

Lewis was the #1 pick in 2017, he was announced as a shortstop that night if I am not mistaken, he played shortstop almost exclusively in the minors, suffered some setbacks along the way, but made it to the show and never gave up on himself. The Twins, however, did give up on him. Shame. 

What is this team’s vision? That is the bigger question. I think they have done ok though a little thin building around their big guys on the pitching staff (Lopez, Duran) but their infield plan is a mess. 

[Mike Sixel]

41 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

This is all secondary effects from making the huge bet on Carlos Correa as the shortstop of the future, instead of Lewis or Lee.

A so-called “good problem to have” with too many position players is still a problem, and in this case, it’s becoming a bigger problem.

Lewis was the #1 pick in 2017, he was announced as a shortstop that night if I am not mistaken, he played shortstop almost exclusively in the minors, suffered some setbacks along the way, but made it to the show and never gave up on himself. The Twins, however, did give up on him. Shame. 

What is this team’s vision? That is the bigger question. I think they have done ok though a little thin building around their big guys on the pitching staff (Lopez, Duran) but their infield plan is a mess. 

Not one expert site said he was a long term SS, not Law, not BA, not Fangraphs. This was a pretty obvious choice, from what I read.

[cmoss84]

Bottom line is...he probably doesn't want to play 2B because he is not comfortable there. Him saying these things isn't about not being a team player. It's more than likely about him not wanting to let the team down when we are in a playoff race in September. Turning two is obviously a major boost in most games to avoid disastrous innings. Not being able to turn two-especially in the playoffs-will be magnified. 

PS

Turning two efficiently takes a ton of reps and chemistry with the other middle infielder. When I went from high school to college ball, I almost crapped my pants how quick our MI was. But it doesn't just happen. TONS of reps. 

[jctwins]

So...if guys spend their time before the game working their position at infield and swinging the bat...I'm pretty sure getting asked to play a second position means you're taking away time from one of the above?

If this is going to be an organizational philosophy, fine, but you need to have guys taking time at these secondary positions from A and up, not after they hit the Show.

[tony&rodney]

The Twins are sitting pretty good for making the playoffs. Their chances for winning the division are considerably lower. We don't know what Falvey and the brain trust are planning for daily lineups and player usage but the specter of making the playoffs provides some security.

In the current situation the lineup depends to some degree on the handedness of the pitcher. Most pitchers are right handed and so something like Vazquez, Santana, Julien, Miranda, Castro, Larnach, Keirsey Jr., Wallner and then Lewis as DH makes some sense. Perhaps Lee should be at shortstop. Versus left handed pitchers we know there will be changes. The guess is Jeffers, Santana, (? at 2B), Miranda, Lee, Martin, Castro, Wallner, and Lewis at DH. The Twins mostly rotate catchers and like to get Jeffers a day or two at DH if he is hitting decently. Jeffers or others at DH complicates things because Lewis is injured and hurts the team when he is in the field more than his multitude of admirers wish to accept. Royce fits as a DH right now. The arrangements without Correa at SS and Buxton in CF will always compromise the defense, which make the lineups tricky. This in turn provides a ton of fodder for those who live for criticizing the lineups and/or management. Right now, the Twins are in a lose/lose situation as far as placating their critics but in a win/win situation as far as making the playoffs. I believe the Twins will choose to get into the playoffs above salving the injuries of the online voices. We are just along for the ride.

 

[ashbury]

4 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Lewis was positioned to go for a DP on a sharp ground ball. He got a sharp ground ball. Even with the runner in motion from 1st, there was time. 

I'm going to post two screenshots, in this post and the next because they're kind of large. The first shows the position of the runner as Lewis releases the ball.  The second shows an instant later, for reference, to show the distance the ball traveled and the distance the runner traveled.

It could be that a different fielder could have done a faster job of coming up with the grounder and converting it into a throw.  That would be a different (and maybe interesting) discussion concerning Lewis's defensive chops at this time.

But given Lewis's own knowledge of his mechanics, it looks to me like he made the right choice. Throwing toward second would have been futile.

[ashbury]

An instant later, the ball is a tiny dot you can see against the outfield grass as a backdrop (might have to magnify).

Video link is here to watch in realtime: https://mlb-cuts-diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2024/2024-09/04/f3a3bf51-4fbad62d-644cf116-csvm-diamondgcp-asset_1280x720_59_4000K.mp4