The Twins Should Swing Big

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

3 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I said that the Twins wouldn't do that trade. I was refuting the posters fairly offensive, and completely wrong take that those kinds of prospects are untouchable. We see these big block buster trades every other year or so with multiple top prospects being moved for a super star player.

And while I agree the Twins won't do this trade, and I'm not sure that I'd want to, in these mega prospect trades, the team getting the prospects loses about 90% of the time. 

I wouldn't want the Twins to make this type of trade so I'm with you on that. And I do appreciate the content on TD. But, I just don't see how something can be called a 'more than credible take' when the outlined scenario has 0% chance of happening.

[jud6312]

 

26 minutes ago, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

Looks like the Twins heard Rocco!

 

I can't express in words that are suitable for families and work just how cringeworthy this "announcement" is. It's things like this that cause me to dislike players (even if this is being tongue in cheek). I hope the Mets, or whomever, enjoy their Pohlad-sponsored batting practice.

[USAFChief]

I would be very reluctant to trade Jenkins, but for Skubal?

Yes. All day. 

 

 

[jud6312]

22 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Whoppeeeeee!!!

Just like making a trade!!1!

I haven't been this excited since Jaime Garcia!!! I hope this move the needle half as much as that trade.

[minman1982]

If you look at the American League, the top four teams are New York, Baltimore, Cleveland, and Minnesota. The differences between these teams are small and I think it would be splitting hairs to rank them. Any one of the four could be the best team in the AL. On the National League side, you probably have Milwaukee, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia as the best teams. I might say that the Phillies are a hair better than the other two but it is still close. Of the seven best teams I listed, any one of them has a realistic shot at winning the World Series.

It is short sighted to look at where this team is at and say "we can't afford to add anything here". This is the time to make an investment and go big. Take a risk. Getting back to the postseason and advancing further than last year is going to excite the fan base and bring people out to the ballpark. Maybe you take a loss this year to invest in your product and make it something that even fair weather fans want to cheer for.

As for the broadcasting rights issues, the Twins should get as far away from Diamond Sports as possible after this year. MLB should be working with teams like the Twins to come up with a better solution.

[tony&rodney]

5 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

It is not 'more than a credible take'.

The Twins have been pinching pennies for the last 6 months. How is it credible to suggest that they would suddenly do a complete 180 and trade their top prospect(s) for a pitcher that will command a huge raise in the off-season?

 

Detroit should not be considering a trade of Tarik Skubel. However, Skubel is still under the arbitration system for two more seasons. A player of value for the Twins, although less so, is Royce Lewis. Lewis will also be getting more expensive but has three years of control remaining. Despite my disbelief in any Skubel deal, the type of player(s) needed to acquire such a talent would absolutely demand a huge return; a credible take.

The Twins roster, as I understand it, is put together by Falvey and Levine. Ownership sets the general guidelines of the financial limits. Unlimited or large payrolls is simply not going to be a thing for the Twins. Baseball falls below football and hockey in Minnesota, which does result in some limits for the Twins economics. Falvey and company do have the resources and organizational talent (in players) to make trades. 

I would submit that the deadline deals made with Baltimore and Cincinnati have given Falvey pause in his considerations on how to proceed at this time. 

Finally, in this too long of a ramble, the inability of a player like Julien to repeat his performance from last year seems to have left doubts within the management team of depth charts. This uncertainty then makes it difficult to decide who is off limits and who can be traded. In another 8 hours we shall all know how Falvey proceeded.

[jud6312]

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I would be very reluctant to trade Jenkins, but for Skubal?

Yes. All day. 

 

 

Would you do it for two years of Skubal though? Because I can't imagine he's signing an extension before hitting the market. His departure could happen about the same time as Jenkins' MLB debut. If they didn't win a WS in those 2+ years, it could be a long decade watching Jenkins tee off on the next wave of Twins starters.

[CRF]

2 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

Sorry dude but as soon as you wrote that Jenkins, Rodriguez, Lee & Matthews should be in play you lost all credibility.  You don't get better when your best players play for other teams.  Or your best prospects.  Some lines can't be crossed. End of story.

 

Nothing should be off the table...ever. 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

I think we can all agree on the following: the Pohlad's leave a lot to be desired this season. And it sucks.

[USAFChief]

6 minutes ago, jud6312 said:

Would you do it for two years of Skubal though? Because I can't imagine he's signing an extension before hitting the market. His departure could happen about the same time as Jenkins' MLB debut. If they didn't win a WS in those 2+ years, it could be a long decade watching Jenkins tee off on the next wave of Twins starters.

Happily.

Jenkins is a high quality prospect. 

Skubal is a high quality MLB starter. 

2.3 years, not 2, by the way, if I can't extend him.

And unless the CBA changes, a draft pick compensation if he departs as a FA in 2027.

 

 

 

[mickster]

8 minutes ago, CRF said:

Nothing should be off the table...ever. 

Although I don't want to see them go, lets be real.    We are all complaining about non-movement, but the minute they do pull a deal this will shift to irritation of giving up a prospect.   They are prospects, no matter how high they are rated.   I don't see Detroit dealing with anyone in the Central.    Personally I would love them to go for a top of the order pitcher - but that will cost someone like Lee/Festa.   We will most likely settle for Quantrill.      Or maybe we bring back Rooker as he looks to have established himself and is RH

[h2oface]

Timing. 15-2 against the Mets. Great shape. Yup. 

[chpettit19]

Emma + Festa + lower prospect or 2 for Skubal. Sign me up all day.

[tony&rodney]

3 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

I think we can all agree on the following: the Pohlad's leave a lot to be desired this season. And it sucks.

While neither opposed to or in support of the Pohlad corporation, I just think the anger or frustration or whatever people feel due to the Twins inaction at this time is misplaced. Falvey and his support group are responsible for putting the roster together. I would be surprised if the Pohlads are even  aware of any conversations related to trades unless it involved a large amount of money. None of the players switching teams or discussed  thus far reach that bar. 

I am unaware myself of any specific comments made by ownership that dictates a reduction in roster expenditure this year as a result of any proposed trades. The MLB agreement with the MLBPA on shifting CBA money to teams that had media issues is completely unclear to me.

[strumdatjag]

Don’t swing for the fences!    The Astros just gave up their 2nd and 3rd prospects for Yusei Kikuchi.    That is way too much.  
The Twins equivalent would be giving up Zebby Matthews and Emmanuel Rodriguez.    No way we should be bidding that type of talent for mid to low rotation guys. 

[nicksaviking]

43 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

I wouldn't want the Twins to make this type of trade so I'm with you on that. And I do appreciate the content on TD. But, I just don't see how something can be called a 'more than credible take' when the outlined scenario has 0% chance of happening.

Read the post I quoted. That was NOT what I was refuting. He arrogantly stated, as fact, that you don't trade top prospects, even though it happens all the time, and nearly always the prospect side loses the trade.

[nicksaviking]

24 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Emma + Festa + lower prospect or 2 for Skubal. Sign me up all day.

I'd guess that would be a popular one here, so I'm thinking that's low.

[USAFChief]

10 minutes ago, strumdatjag said:

Don’t swing for the fences!    The Astros just gave up their 2nd and 3rd prospects for Yusei Kikuchi.   

False.

Houston paid a steep price, but not even close to your claim.

#9 and #13, plus Loporfido, per MLB. 

https://www.mlb.com/news/yusei-kikuchi-astros-blue-jays-trade

 

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'd guess that would be a popular one here, so I'm thinking that's low.

They can have Raya, too. 2 top 100 prospects is a pretty good starting point for a Skubal trade I'd think.

[Mark G]

38 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

While neither opposed to or in support of the Pohlad corporation, I just think the anger or frustration or whatever people feel due to the Twins inaction at this time is misplaced. Falvey and his support group are responsible for putting the roster together. I would be surprised if the Pohlads are even  aware of any conversations related to trades unless it involved a large amount of money. None of the players switching teams or discussed  thus far reach that bar. 

I am unaware myself of any specific comments made by ownership that dictate s a reduction in roster expenditure this year as a result of any proposed trades. The MLB agreement with the MLBPA on shifting CBA money to teams that had media issues is completely unclear to me.

I am not aware of any ownership comments either, and I doubt the would make a public one,  But over the years I have heard Falvine, in interviews, brag about how the ownership gives them a certain leeway when they ask for it to give extensions or sign free agents.  When it comes to adding to payroll beyond a guideline they have been given, which is what a lot of folks think is a form of a soft cap, they have said themselves plenty of times they have to go to ownership and consult them.  I fear that this is what is happening now, and it has caused us (possibly) to miss out on something that we might have done if given the flexibility.  The average fan will never see behind the curtain there, so we will always debate was it Falvine, or was it JP?  

But, as Tony&Rodney said, we will know more in 8 hours (7 now).  

[LambchoP]

It is just so sad and an absolute slap in the face to us fans that all this has to happen now. We FINALLY win a playoff series and look set up to be a true world series contender the next few years and what does management do? Cut payroll, screw up TV rights so nobody can even watch the games. Then on top of everything they blame the fans and lack of attendance for all their money troubles. It's too bad we don't have owners that actually want to bring a world series to MN, rather than trying to improve profit margins year to year....

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

1 hour ago, jud6312 said:

 

I can't express in words that are suitable for families and work just how cringeworthy this "announcement" is. It's things like this that cause me to dislike players (even if this is being tongue in cheek). I hope the Mets, or whomever, enjoy their Pohlad-sponsored batting practice.

It's so obviously tongue in cheek. Dobnak is a silly guy, if the handlebar weren't enough of a clue in. You're taking this much more seriously than he is. 

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

55 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Emma + Festa + lower prospect or 2 for Skubal. Sign me up all day.

If Detroit agreed to that their fans would riot. Take that in a heartbeat!

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

32 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Read the post I quoted. That was NOT what I was refuting. He arrogantly stated, as fact, that you don't trade top prospects, even though it happens all the time, and nearly always the prospect side loses the trade.

Well, yes, it does happen all the time. That's true. The poster isn't wrong in theory - it isn't a credible take. But, how he arrived at that conclusion is faulty. It's not a credible take for this franchise at the current time.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

If Detroit agreed to that their fans would riot. Take that in a heartbeat!

That's 2 top-100 prospects plus others. I don't think that's a riot worthy proposal. 

Soto and Bell brought back 3 top-100 prospects plus others. 2 top-100 guys is a pretty reasonable starting point I think.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

2 hours ago, HoskenPowell said:

When they didn't jettison Farmer or Vasquez this winter/spring for more pitching you knew the writing was on the wall.

Vasquez and/or Farmer isn’t going to fetch the kind of pitching that a contending team needs.  At best, a low level lottery ticket.  Just getting someone to take on the Vasquez contract would be difficult.  

I agree that I would not relish trading some of our upper prospects, but we have to decide what we really want.  If we want to hang on to everybody, then this year’s team isn’t going to get a talent infusion and we continue to play the hand we have been dealt.  If we trade someone substantial from the prospect list, we can be better in the short term but maybe lose something for the future.  Remember, not every prospect (even “sure thing” prospects) turns out.  The key is to guess which ones have a higher value now than they will in the future.  Those are the ones to trade. 

[Heiny]

Whether it's the FO or ownership doesn't matter at all to me.  But there were many possible sighnings the Twins could have made during the off season and did nothing, and there were many possible trades they could have made prior to the deadline and didn't (the best possibilities are gone).  This is a real thing, well I think it's real, ok, maybe not real, but it is a thing.  Everything is a thing, well maybe not everything.  Where was I going with this?  I get lost when I have to think a little.  Kinda like the Twins when they have to think about maybe trying to get a WS.

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Vasquez and/or Farmer isn’t going to fetch the kind of pitching that a contending team needs.  At best, a low level lottery ticket.  Just getting someone to take on the Vasquez contract would be difficult.  

I agree that I would not relish trading some of our upper prospects, but we have to decide what we really want.  If we want to hang on to everybody, then this year’s team isn’t going to get a talent infusion and we continue to play the hand we have been dealt.  If we trade someone substantial from the prospect list, we can be better in the short term but maybe lose something for the future.  Remember, not every prospect (even “sure thing” prospects) turns out.  The key is to guess which ones have a higher value now than they will in the future.  Those are the ones to trade. 

Pretty sure they meant save the money on Farmer and Vazquez..... And spend it otherwise.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Heiny said:

Whether it's the FO or ownership doesn't matter at all to me.  But there were many possible sighnings the Twins could have made during the off season and did nothing, and there were many possible trades they could have made prior to the deadline and didn't (the best possibilities are gone).  This is a real thing, well I think it's real, ok, maybe not real, but it is a thing.  Everything is a thing, well maybe not everything.  Where was I going with this?  I get lost when I have to think a little.  Kinda like the Twins when they have to think about maybe trying to get a WS.

Great post

[Rod Carews Birthday]

27 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

That's 2 top-100 prospects plus others. I don't think that's a riot worthy proposal. 

Soto and Bell brought back 3 top-100 prospects plus others. 2 top-100 guys is a pretty reasonable starting point I think.

I think that is a reasonable starting point, but I don’t see the trigger being pulled on it.  As others (and you) have said, you have to trade something to get something, and expecting to trade a backup utility infielder and a bag of balls for a quality MLB starter is just ridiculous. 

Specifically, you need to figure out if you think that Rodriguez and Festa will be stars or whether they will just be players — think the difference between Royce Lewis (who appears to be on his way to stardom) and Max Kepler (nice career WAR but really only a star for a couple of short bursts over the years).  If Rodriguez is going to be as good as a healthy Royce Lewis and Festa is going to be Brad Radke, then you can’t make that trade.  However if you think those outcomes are unlikely, don’t dream on what could be.  Trade them now for something better.