What is Royce Lewis STILL doing in St. Paul!?!?!

[bean5302]

For the record, rehab assignments have 2 parts from an MLB team's perspective.
1) Is the player's injury completely healed? If they're sore on a rehab assignment they can skip a day or two or three to rest without putting a drag on the 26 man roster or forcing another 10-15 days lost on an IL trip when the player only needs 2 or 3.

2) Is the player in game day form? Live game at bats are a lot different than hitting in the cages or throwing a bullpen. Timing, feel and routine often take a few games to get back. Being the reason a AAA club loses a game is a lot less of an issue than being the reason the MLB club loses a game.

To the players advantage:

Performance = pay. In a 504 plate appearance season, the difference between
.302/.371/.502 OPS .873 and
.291/.357/.482 OPS .840
is a 4 game 0-16 streak while the player gets their timing back.

[arby58]

2 hours ago, bighat said:

Byron Buxton debuted back in the dark ages before TikTok existed. What's next, you going to tell me how the Twins brought up John Castino directly from his pappy's pig farm when he was 22 years old or something? 

C'mon now, everyone knows the Twins famously, notoriously, are slow to promote. This is a fact. Why you are twisting yourself into knots trying to prove otherwise is beyond me. 

The Twins need Royce, and they need him now, and we all want to watch him run through a stop sign at 3rd base, steaming for home like a runaway freight train. The sooner the better. 

 

You're working  yourself into a lather with wildly inconsistent claims. Royce Lewis wasn't 'held back' from playing for the Twins as a teenager because of 'the Twins way' - he was 'held back' by tearing his ACL TWICE. He was on the injured list again for a substantial portion of last year and now since the first game of this season. Yet you claim he's basically indestructible. What color is the sky in your world?

[Alex]

11 minutes ago, arby58 said:

You're working  yourself into a lather with wildly inconsistent claims. Royce Lewis wasn't 'held back' from playing for the Twins as a teenager because of 'the Twins way' - he was 'held back' by tearing his ACL TWICE. He was on the injured list again for a substantial portion of last year and now since the first game of this season. Yet you claim he's basically indestructible. What color is the sky in your world?

He's starting with his conclusion, which is that the Twins are cheap and then trying to use that to fit this.   It's doubly wrong though because Lewis gets MLB time and a MLB salary during his recovery and rehab when he is injured during a major league game.   So, they're actually "losing" money/time on him for every day he is on a rehab assignment.

[stringer bell]

2 hours ago, bighat said:

Byron Buxton debuted back in the dark ages before TikTok existed. What's next, you going to tell me how the Twins brought up John Castino directly from his pappy's pig farm when he was 22 years old or something? 

C'mon now, everyone knows the Twins famously, notoriously, are slow to promote. This is a fact. Why you are twisting yourself into knots trying to prove otherwise is beyond me. 

The Twins need Royce, and they need him now, and we all want to watch him run through a stop sign at 3rd base, steaming for home like a runaway freight train. The sooner the better. 

 

Promoting isn’t the same as rehabbing. I personally think Lewis won’t be back until they play New York in the Bronx. 

[nicksaviking]

This doesn't bother me.

Though personally I'd have Lewis up DH'ing if that's what he's doing in St. Paul. He hasn't been a model of health, I'd probably try to squeeze as many MLB plate appearances as I can out of him before we deal with a new issue. If they're going to risk injury, I'd rather not waste that time in AAA. But whatever, this isn't some crime against baseball.

The prospects with high draft capital haven't been delayed. The guys with gripes would only be the non-top prospects. I mean there was no reason to keep Julien in Wichita for a full season. Keirsey should obviously be up instead of Margot now and over Stevenson last year, and Camargo probably shouldn't be blocked by a clearly cooked Vazquez. It doesn't seem to be some big systemic conspiracy, but you can find guys most years that the team seemed to unfairly sidetrack for one reason or another. And fairness to the player aside, these sidetracks don't really seem to benefit the MLB W/L ratio in any way.

[bighat]

1 hour ago, Obsvr said:

This has to be trolling.

Kudos and wp sir.

 

I am having a bit of fun, I am happy someone caught it. I have Royce Lewis on my fantasy baseball team and have had him stashed on the bench all year. Been brutal. I'm trying to will his activation into existence by letting my alter-ego take hold of the keyboard here. 

I know that he should get some ABs in the minors here, thankfully I am sure he'll be back by early next week. 

[bighat]

5 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

This doesn't bother me.

Though personally I'd have Lewis up DH'ing if that's what he's doing in St. Paul. He hasn't been a model of health, I'd probably try to squeeze as many MLB plate appearances as I can out of him before we deal with a new issue. If they're going to risk injury, I'd rather not waste that time in AAA. But whatever, this isn't some crime against baseball.

The prospects with high draft capital haven't been delayed. The guys with gripes would only be the non-top prospects. I mean there was no reason to keep Julien in Wichita for a full season. Keirsey should obviously be up instead of Margot now and over Stevenson last year, and Camargo probably shouldn't be blocked by a clearly cooked Vazquez. It doesn't seem to be some big systemic conspiracy, but you can find guys most years that the team seemed to unfairly sidetrack for one reason or another. And fairness to the player aside, these sidetracks don't really seem to benefit the MLB W/L ratio in any way.

Agree with all of this - especially that Keirsey languishing away while Margot and Farmer put up some of the worst numbers in MLB history is a crime. 

[Obsvr]

3 hours ago, bighat said:

I am having a bit of fun, I am happy someone caught it. I have Royce Lewis on my fantasy baseball team and have had him stashed on the bench all year. Been brutal. I'm trying to will his activation into existence by letting my alter-ego take hold of the keyboard here. 

I know that he should get some ABs in the minors here, thankfully I am sure he'll be back by early next week. 

its criminally easy to get people worked up around here.

[Craig Arko]

Right now I’m guessing after this road trip.

[tony&rodney]

5 hours ago, bighat said:

I am having a bit of fun, I am happy someone caught it. I have Royce Lewis on my fantasy baseball team and have had him stashed on the bench all year. Been brutal. I'm trying to will his activation into existence by letting my alter-ego take hold of the keyboard here. 

I know that he should get some ABs in the minors here, thankfully I am sure he'll be back by early next week. 

Problem is, it seems like a fair number of people are into fantasy baseball or gamble but have little time for watching the games or understanding the difficulty of MLB. Lewis won't be in the All Star Game. He needs to get his bat on the ball in AAA first. Royce will be all right but he is sort of in the midst of a Spring Training period.

[arby58]

17 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

The prospects with high draft capital haven't been delayed. The guys with gripes would only be the non-top prospects. I mean there was no reason to keep Julien in Wichita for a full season. Keirsey should obviously be up instead of Margot now and over Stevenson last year, and Camargo probably shouldn't be blocked by a clearly cooked Vazquez. It doesn't seem to be some big systemic conspiracy, but you can find guys most years that the team seemed to unfairly sidetrack for one reason or another. And fairness to the player aside, these sidetracks don't really seem to benefit the MLB W/L ratio in any way.

Vazquez, for all his offensive inability at the moment, is still a very good defensive catcher. The Twins are currently 5th of 15 AL teams in runs scored, so it's not as if they can't afford to value defense at one of the key defensive positions. The Twins are 8-2 in their last 10 games, and even Margot has had some key hits. Last year at this time, people were complaining similarly about Max Kepler. Sometimes you have to trust the judgement of those who see the players in the majors and the minors every day.

[Squirrel]

22 hours ago, bighat said:

Byron Buxton debuted back in the dark ages before TikTok existed. What's next, you going to tell me how the Twins brought up John Castino directly from his pappy's pig farm when he was 22 years old or something? 

C'mon now, everyone knows the Twins famously, notoriously, are slow to promote. This is a fact. Why you are twisting yourself into knots trying to prove otherwise is beyond me. 

The Twins need Royce, and they need him now, and we all want to watch him run through a stop sign at 3rd base, steaming for home like a runaway freight train. The sooner the better. 

 

I agree, the sooner the better … as soon as he is able and cleared for that kind of stress. Given Royce’s injury history, I don’t mind some caution. He basically hasn’t played all season. He will definitely push his way in … he hasn’t yet.

And comparing this to other teams’ healthy 20 yr olds isn’t exactly apples to apples. It’s not. At all.

[Five minute major]

The Twins are notoriously slow at promoting talent.  This is no secret and anybody who understands the Pohlad's financial philosophy knows this.   

All fingers are pointing at releasing Kyle Farmer.   This is a no brainer from a talent level.  Manual Margot a close second.  But the FO knows that they will be eating salary and this is not something ownership tolerates.   I honestly think this is the main reason that Lewis is still in St Paul.    There is absolute credence to a longer than average stay in this case and it is understandable given Lewis' history.   But to think that the decisions that need to be made on the 26 aren't factoring is naive at best.    

Look no further than Joey Gallo last year.    Regrettably,  Twins fans will always have to deal with the financials being the primary driver for the Pohlad's over winning.  It is just fact.   It's a shame that of all the ownership groups in this market,   the Pohlad's are the most budget conscious in the one league that has by far the softest salary cap.

 

[arby58]

3 hours ago, Five minute major said:

It's a shame that of all the ownership groups in this market,   the Pohlad's are the most budget conscious in the one league that has by far the softest salary cap.

That is demonstrably false - look no further than the total payroll for each MLB team. Since the 2000 season, the Twins have had the lowest payroll twice (2000 and 2001). They have typically (but not always) been in the lower half, but they are not even close to the 'most budget conscious' owners in the league. For the record, from 2024 back to 2000, their opening day payroll ranking has been 18 in 2024, then 17, 20, 16, 20, 18, 18, 22, 18, 18, 24, 22, 13, 10, 11, 24, 25, 18, 19, 20, 19, 18, 27, 30, 30. So who has had the lowest payroll the most in those 25 years? The Rays (5), the Marlins (4), the Astro (3), and the A's (3). Along with the Twins, the Orioles, Pirates, and Brewers have 2, and the Padres and Royals 1.

Honestly, can't we have reasonable discussions without this sort of hyuperbole?

[strumdatjag]

In the Roster Moves thread, it’s been reported that Eddy Julien has been sent to St Paul.    Royce Lewis will likely be called back next.   I suspect Brooks Lee will be here before August. Meanwhile, Miranda will play more 1B and DH and Kirilloff will spend more time in the outfield.  The newest bubble members are Margot and Santana.   

[lecroy24fan]

Santana is nowhere near the bubble.

[RpR]

What is Royce Lewis STILL doing in St. Paul!?!?!

[Brock Beauchamp]

On 5/31/2024 at 8:37 AM, bighat said:

Dude, Acuna debuted at 19. Ozzie Albies came up at age 20. Bobby Witt came up at 20. The Mariners called up Julio Rodriguez at age 19. Brewers have this Churio kid up at age 20. The Reds' Elly De La Cruz was 21 last season. The Rangers have 2 starting OF (Wyatt Langford and Evan Carter) who are 22 and 21, respectively. 

And here you are using the fact that the Twins promoted Matt Wallner at 24 and that's your example of the Twins "rushing youth through the system"? Ober came up at 25 - you think he's some spring chicken? 

Dude these guys are grandfathers by the time they get to the majors. Meanwhile every other MLB club is bringing up 20 year-old All-Stars.

Twins fans need to step away from their glass of milk and white toast and look around the league a little bit. This organization is about as conservative as it gets when it comes to promoting young players. 

Okay, listen. I run multiple baseball sites for multiple teams. The stuff you're comparing here is apples and oranges.

First, the Twins tend to draft top-heavily on college athletes. That basically eliminates any draftee debuting before age 22-23.

Second, Lewis literally blew up his leg just when the Twins were thinking he could become a key piece in the coming year.

Third, Lewis still debuted as a 22-year-old after blowing up aforementioned leg.

Every once in awhile, a team gets a Jackson Chourio and that player is literally MLB-worthy as a teenager. It doesn't happen often. When it does, huzzah! That's amazing!

But for the bulk of MLB players, especially on a team that goes top-heavy in drafting collegiate players, it's not going to happen often.

Are the Twins good right now? Yes. Do they have good players on the farm? Yes.

So what exactly is the problem here?

[stringer bell]

9 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Every once in awhile, a team gets a Jackson Chourio and that player is literally MLB-worthy as a teenager. It doesn't happen often. When it does, huzzah! That's amazing!

I don't follow the Brewers much (I know you're involved with a similar site covering them), but I would think there is some controversy keeping Chourio in the majors. He has a .602 OPS and negative WAR. The Tigers made a spot for Colt Keith and his OPS is .597. Sometimes young guys aren't ready although they have worlds of talent. 

Edit to add: Both of the guys I mentioned were given major league extensions before they played in their first major league game. It may also be why they are still in the majors right now.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

I don't follow the Brewers much (I know you're involved with a similar site covering them), but I would think there is some controversy keeping Chourio in the majors. He has a .602 OPS and negative WAR. The Tigers made a spot for Colt Keith and his OPS is .597. Sometimes young guys aren't ready although they have worlds of talent. 

There is a minor controversy but no one I've seen is seriously pushing for Chourio to be demoted. The Brewers offense is rolling and giving Jackson some playing time still seems like a good idea.

[bighat]

Frankly at 3-for-22 in AAA I now think they are calling him up too soon. Why on earth are they calling him up!?!?! Too early IMO!!!

[bighat]

On 6/2/2024 at 11:30 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

Okay, listen. I run multiple baseball sites for multiple teams. The stuff you're comparing here is apples and oranges.

First, the Twins tend to draft top-heavily on college athletes. That basically eliminates any draftee debuting before age 22-23.

Second, Lewis literally blew up his leg just when the Twins were thinking he could become a key piece in the coming year.

Third, Lewis still debuted as a 22-year-old after blowing up aforementioned leg.

Every once in awhile, a team gets a Jackson Chourio and that player is literally MLB-worthy as a teenager. It doesn't happen often. When it does, huzzah! That's amazing!

But for the bulk of MLB players, especially on a team that goes top-heavy in drafting collegiate players, it's not going to happen often.

Are the Twins good right now? Yes. Do they have good players on the farm? Yes.

So what exactly is the problem here?

"It doesn't happen that often" - but I think it does. I just named a bunch of players who came up at age 19 or 20 for the Rangers, Braves, Brewers, Nationals, Reds, Mariners, and Royals. At this point it's almost the norm for a team to have a talented superstar under age 21. 

So where's our Acuna? Where's our Witt Jr? Where's our Bryce Harper, our Julio Rodriguez, our Elly de la Cruz? 

Why do Twins fans say things like "Take it easy on Trever Larnach, he's still a 'prospect'" when the guy is 27 years old? Why are Twins fans so quick to make excuses for old men like Alex Kirilloff? The guy is collecting social security. These are not "young players". This is not a "young core" with any kind of long-term future in the organization. They will be 30 soon and signing them to any kind of long-term deals will not happen. 

By holding back prospects, the Twins now have a stockpile of 24 year-olds in St. Paul who need to be playing Major League Baseball. Half of them they just let rot in St. Paul in favor of Farmer and Margot, the other half they trade for washed up pitchers with dead arms. What's the point of drafting talented players if you're not going to play them? 

In short, I'd like the Twins to be able to identify talent earlier, and have them up and playing major league baseball and contributing - producing an exciting, watchable product that makes us all smile and cheer and be happy. Is that too much to ask? 

(I really don't know what I'm arguing for here, I guess I just wish the Twins had a cool young marketable superstar who doesn't get hurt every 5 minutes). 

[Rosterman]

Light Rail was down for a week.

[FlyingFinn]

41 minutes ago, bighat said:

So where's our Acuna?

Our Acuna is with our FCL team. Bryan Acuna is off to a nice start, 6 for 12 with 3 doubles.

[stringer bell]

41 minutes ago, bighat said:

"It doesn't happen that often" - but I think it does. I just named a bunch of players who came up at age 19 or 20 for the Rangers, Braves, Brewers, Nationals, Reds, Mariners, and Royals. At this point it's almost the norm for a team to have a talented superstar under age 21. 

So where's our Acuna? Where's our Witt Jr? Where's our Bryce Harper, our Julio Rodriguez, our Elly de la Cruz? 

Why do Twins fans say things like "Take it easy on Trever Larnach, he's still a 'prospect'" when the guy is 27 years old? Why are Twins fans so quick to make excuses for old men like Alex Kirilloff? The guy is collecting social security. These are not "young players". This is not a "young core" with any kind of long-term future in the organization. They will be 30 soon and signing them to any kind of long-term deals will not happen. 

By holding back prospects, the Twins now have a stockpile of 24 year-olds in St. Paul who need to be playing Major League Baseball. Half of them they just let rot in St. Paul in favor of Farmer and Margot, the other half they trade for washed up pitchers with dead arms. What's the point of drafting talented players if you're not going to play them? 

In short, I'd like the Twins to be able to identify talent earlier, and have them up and playing major league baseball and contributing - producing an exciting, watchable product that makes us all smile and cheer and be happy. Is that too much to ask? 

(I really don't know what I'm arguing for here, I guess I just wish the Twins had a cool young marketable superstar who doesn't get hurt every 5 minutes). 

I think Emma and Walker are answers. Two of the top three prospects and neither are college bats, so if they arrive at 21-22 that will be a fast advance. 

[bean5302]

Why are you guys feeding the troll?

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, bighat said:

(I really don't know what I'm arguing for here, I guess I just wish the Twins had a cool young marketable superstar who doesn't get hurt every 5 minutes). 

And this is the crux of the matter. The Twins have a decent farm system and it's hard to find those 20-year-old superstars... but they kinda had one in Royce Lewis and he keeps blowing up his body. The Twins have absolutely zero control over that. The first time Lewis blew up, it was the offseason and he slipped on ice. I complained vocally about playing him in center without more experience so I do partially blame them for the second injury.

But it was the first injury that prevented him from debuting at a much younger age, which is the point we're talking about here.

Couple that with how the Twins draft in the first few rounds and it's no surprise that their only young superstar was the guy they took 1-1 in the draft. Maybe Walker Jenkins has a shot to be that guy but he missed the first two months of this season so that's unlikely as well.