Edouard Julien is Proving Himself a Worthy Replacement for Jorge Polanco

[Riverbrian]

18 minutes ago, Sherry Cerny said:

lol okay. Some things are also changed by my editor. 

Your editor needs a stern warning

[Riverbrian]

41 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Their mistake that is making a difference was not trading Polanco.  It was signing Santana.  

You have consistently used Santana in your model to justify the trading of Polanco. 

 

[Sherry Cerny]

3 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Your editor needs a stern warning

 

Lol, I will let him know :) 

[Sherry Cerny]

41 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Huh?

This is literally the first 2 sentences of your article:

 

"The Twins ... traded second baseman Jorge Polanco to Seattle on Jan. 29. The team got quite a haul..."

yep! We have editors. :) 

[USAFChief]

6 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

First Off - Polanco wRC+ is 110

Things change fast in a small sample size. You gotta try and keep up if small sample size is your weapon of choice. 

2nd Off 

wRC+ - Here are some more numbers. Which ones do you want to ignore? Do you want to ask the question... In what way are any of these players below better than Polanco? 

Castro 36

Farmer: 18

Santana: 11

Kepler: -62

Crawford: 56

Garver: 46

Julio Rodriquez: 40

Nolan Jones: 47

Devers: 102

Arozarena: 63

Oneil Cruz: 74

Harper: 81

Castellanos: 26

Boegaerts: 69

Santander: 63 

Lindor: 48

Jose Ramirez: 98

Matt Chapman: 66

Carroll: 82

Swanson: 93

Bellinger: 54

Arenado: 93

Goldschmidt: 54

Vlad Jr.: 103

Bichette: 79

Bregman: 96

Third off:

You and I have had a lot of discussions on this. Show me where I said Polanco is better than Julien.

I've said Polanco wouldn't be a bench player!

I've said that Polanco and Julien can be on the same roster.

I've said that injuries are going to occur

I've said your paper lineup of a Julien/Farmer Platoon, Kirilloff/Santana Platoon, Lewis and Correa being better than Polanco won't last before April is done. 

I've said that Rocco doesn't let Julien hit left handers. 

I've said that Rocco lets Polanco hit both left handers and right handers. 

I've said that Santana will play every day. 

I've said that you put words in other peoples mouths. And you've done that again.  

 

Ouch. 

[wabene]

Tough crowd, lol.

[USAFChief]

1 minute ago, Sherry Cerny said:

yep! We have editors. :) 

Yeah, I heard you the first time.

Might be just me, but I wouldn't let my editor write my content, under my byline. 

But if I did, I wouldn't throw him/her under the bus later for what's published under my byline.

 

[chpettit19]

33 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

First Off - Polanco wRC+ is 110

Things change fast in a small sample size. You gotta try and keep up if small sample size is your weapon of choice. 

2nd Off 

wRC+ - Here are some more numbers. Which ones do you want to ignore? Do you want to ask the question... In what way are any of these players below better than Polanco? 

Castro 36

Farmer: 18

Santana: 11

Kepler: -62

Crawford: 56

Garver: 46

Julio Rodriquez: 40

Nolan Jones: 47

Devers: 102

Arozarena: 63

Oneil Cruz: 74

Harper: 81

Castellanos: 26

Boegaerts: 69

Santander: 63 

Lindor: 48

Jose Ramirez: 98

Matt Chapman: 66

Carroll: 82

Swanson: 93

Bellinger: 54

Arenado: 93

Goldschmidt: 54

Vlad Jr.: 103

Bichette: 79

Bregman: 96

Third off:

You and I have had a lot of discussions on this. Show me where I said Polanco is better than Julien.

I've said Polanco wouldn't be a bench player!

I've said that Polanco and Julien can be on the same roster.

I've said that injuries are going to occur

I've said your paper lineup of a Julien/Farmer Platoon, Kirilloff/Santana Platoon, Lewis and Correa being better than Polanco won't last before April is done. 

I've said that Rocco doesn't let Julien hit left handers. 

I've said that Rocco lets Polanco hit both left handers and right handers. 

I've said that Santana will play every day. 

I've said that you put words in other peoples mouths. And you've done that again.  

 

Can I add that even if the paper lineup of a Julien/Farmer Platoon, Kirilloff/Santana Platoon, Lewis and Correa lasted past April there is still a DH position for Polanco to play?

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Can I add that even if the paper lineup of a Julien/Farmer Platoon, Kirilloff/Santana Platoon, Lewis and Correa last past April there is still a DH position for Polanco to play?

AND... AND

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

AND... AND

Thank you. That's all I wanted to add. You seem to have things under control on this one so I'll just sit back and enjoy the show.

[Riverbrian]

4 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Thank you. That's all I wanted to add. You seem to have things under control on this one so I'll just sit back and enjoy the show.

[Major League Ready]

38 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

You have consistently used Santana in your model to justify the trading of Polanco. 

 

You will have to show me that post because that was not my position.  I said over and over the reason for moving logic was ...

A) Julien is the better player and $10M less.  B) Farmer the better platoon player and versatile back-up and he can cover SS where Polanco cannot.  C) Lee will likely be ready soon.  

[Major League Ready]

50 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

 

Third off:

You and I have had a lot of discussions on this. Show me where I said Polanco is better than Julien.

I've said Polanco wouldn't be a bench player!

I've said that Polanco and Julien can be on the same roster.

I've said that injuries are going to occur

I've said your paper lineup of a Julien/Farmer Platoon, Kirilloff/Santana Platoon, Lewis and Correa being better than Polanco won't last before April is done. 

I've said that Rocco doesn't let Julien hit left handers. 

I've said that Rocco lets Polanco hit both left handers and right handers. 

I've said that Santana will play every day. 

I've said that you put words in other peoples mouths. And you've done that again.  

 

I was reacting to the 2nd post in this thread you said "Does that mean that Polanco would have been 1st, 2nd 3rd, 4th or 5th... which would have knocked Julien down to 2nd or 6th? So thank heavens we got rid of the better player so Julien can rise up that depth chart?  Perhaps I did not understand what you meant but it sure reads as though Polanco is the better player and the reference is to Julien. 

[Riverbrian]

10 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

You will have to show me that post because that was not my position.  I said over and over the reason for moving logic was ...

A) Julien is the better player and $10M less.  B) Farmer the better platoon player and versatile back-up and he can cover SS where Polanco cannot.  C) Lee will likely be ready soon.  

If you insist. There are more... but 2 fairly quickly should suffice. 

April 2

This is true only if the twins were willing to devote a roster to a player who is primarily a DH.  Most teams don't want to devote a spot to a DH and if the twins were to do so Martinez made more sense. 

Who does he replace in the field?  Julien is the superior and cheaper player at 2B against RHP.  Farmer is the superior player a 2B against LHP.   Lewis the much better player at 3B.  Kirilloff is the equivalent player at 1B against RHP and much cheaper.  Santana is the superior player at 1B against LHP.  So, when is he the preferred starter?

There is also the issue of having room on the roster for Brooks Lee.

April 4

This is your opinion of who he starts over.   If the twins agreed with you, Polanco would still be here.  They don't want a full-time DH and neither do most teams.  And, if they wanted a full-time DH, Martinez would have made much more sense.  They would have a better hitter, a good RP, and two good prospects.

In addition, he is an inferior choice over Kirilloff against RHP and Inferior to Santana against LHP.  The only time he would not be an inferior choice is at DH.

[Riverbrian]

8 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I was reacting to the 2nd post in this thread you said "Does that mean that Polanco would have been 1st, 2nd 3rd, 4th or 5th... which would have knocked Julien down to 2nd or 6th? So thank heavens we got rid of the better player so Julien can rise up that depth chart?  Perhaps I did not understand what you meant but it sure reads as though Polanco is the better player and the reference is to Julien. 

Which was what I was asking if that was what the OP was stating by declaring that "Trading Polanco to secure his spot on the team was a good decision by the front office". 

Why would his spot need to be secured unless the OP assumes that Polanco is the better player? 

[Major League Ready]

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

If you insist. There are more... but 2 fairly quickly should suffice. 

April 2

This is true only if the twins were willing to devote a roster to a player who is primarily a DH.  Most teams don't want to devote a spot to a DH and if the twins were to do so Martinez made more sense. 

Who does he replace in the field?  Julien is the superior and cheaper player at 2B against RHP.  Farmer is the superior player a 2B against LHP.   Lewis the much better player at 3B.  Kirilloff is the equivalent player at 1B against RHP and much cheaper.  Santana is the superior player at 1B against LHP.  So, when is he the preferred starter?

There is also the issue of having room on the roster for Brooks Lee.

April 4

This is your opinion of who he starts over.   If the twins agreed with you, Polanco would still be here.  They don't want a full-time DH and neither do most teams.  And, if they wanted a full-time DH, Martinez would have made much more sense.  They would have a better hitter, a good RP, and two good prospects.

In addition, he is an inferior choice over Kirilloff against RHP and Inferior to Santana against LHP.  The only time he would not be an inferior choice is at DH.

These posts were very clearly directed at if there was anytime other than DH where Polanco would be the best choice.   It's a big reach to say this suggests that Santana was justification for getting rid of Polanco.   Now, you do have a point if you fell they should have anticipated injuries in the first week of the season to Lewis / Correa and Lee.

[Major League Ready]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

Which was what I was asking if that was what the OP was stating by declaring that "Trading Polanco to secure his spot on the team was a good decision by the front office". 

Why would his spot need to be secured unless the OP assumes that Polanco is the better player? 

IDK.  The point was solely that you referred to Polanco as the better player than Julien which you avoided completely.

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, Sherry Cerny said:

Some things are also changed by my editor.

@Riverbrian should understand that one, because sometimes his articles were edited, too, because they made no sense

[MGM4706]

Wow! With all due respect this has to be be one of the most off base articles I have ever read!! Does the writer watch any Twins games? Julien has a fielding range of 2 feet to his left and 2 feet to his right. It is NOT improving as the writer claims. Made another key error yesterday to fuel an Oriole rally. His strikeout rate from the last 6 weeks of last year through the start of this year is almost Sano-Like!! The league appears to have figured him out. Brooks Lee should be called up when fully healthy and then worked in at 2nd. He could be the long term solution. Maybe this author should try something different than writing about baseball!!

[RpR]

7 minutes ago, MGM4706 said:

Wow! With all due respect this has to be be one of the most off base articles I have ever read!! Does the writer watch any Twins games? Julien has a fielding range of 2 feet to his left and 2 feet to his right. It is NOT improving as the writer claims. Made another key error yesterday to fuel an Oriole rally. His strikeout rate from the last 6 weeks of last year through the start of this year is almost Sano-Like!! The league appears to have figured him out. Brooks Lee should be called up when fully healthy and then worked in at 2nd. He could be the long term solution. Maybe this author should try something different than writing about baseball!!

I agree with the first part, but Lee's fielding stats. at the MLB site say Lee is probably no better than Julien, and absolutely horrid at SS.

[KBJ1]

The whole purpose of trading either or both Polanco & Kepler was to free up money to sign a SP.

Wasting $15M on the likes of Santana, Margot & DeSlafani when we had and are now using Martin, Miranda & Varland anyways is insanity! We needed a SP! Maeda would look line a godsend right now.

Meanwhile, how is Spencer Steer doing?

We could have had him as well in the mix.

Now we have to trade more prospects for pitching just to have a warm body to put out there every 5th day.

This season could be over by June.

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I was reacting to the 2nd post in this thread you said "Does that mean that Polanco would have been 1st, 2nd 3rd, 4th or 5th... which would have knocked Julien down to 2nd or 6th? So thank heavens we got rid of the better player so Julien can rise up that depth chart?  Perhaps I did not understand what you meant but it sure reads as though Polanco is the better player and the reference is to Julien. 

You understand what question marks mean? 

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

IDK.  The point was solely that you referred to Polanco as the better player than Julien which you avoided completely.

When I quoted you... I quoted your entire post so context was intact and others could determine what you meant. 

Please quote me in entirety so others can determine what I meant. 

[Riverbrian]

7 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

These posts were very clearly directed at if there was anytime other than DH where Polanco would be the best choice.   It's a big reach to say this suggests that Santana was justification for getting rid of Polanco.   Now, you do have a point if you fell they should have anticipated injuries in the first week of the season to Lewis / Correa and Lee.

Chia Pet went over it many times with you how Polanco could be implemented. 

I stated on multiple occasions on multiple threads that injuries were going to occur. 

Here's a post where I respond to your claiming that Polanco is a bench player. AFTER Royce Lewis is hurt. You are still asking who Polanco replaces in the field and using Santana in your paragraph.  

I quote you entirely and I quote me entirely. 

Posted April 2

  On 4/2/2024 at 2:34 PM, Major League Ready said:

This is true only if the twins were willing to devote a roster to a player who is primarily a DH.  Most teams don't want to devote a spot to a DH and if the twins were to do so Martinez made more sense. 

Who does he replace in the field?  Julien is the superior and cheaper player at 2B against RHP.  Farmer is the superior player a 2B against LHP.   Lewis the much better player at 3B.  Kirilloff is the equivalent player at 1B against RHP and much cheaper.  Santana is the superior player at 1B against LHP.  So, when is he the preferred starter?

Royce Lewis is out for two months after two AB's and you still want to make this same point? 

Like Chief pointed out... Manuel Margot was our opening day DH and you still want to make this same point? Alex Kirilloff was in LF by game two and you still want to make this point?  

Julien still isn't in the lineup against left handers. Santana leads the team in plate appearances. Willie Castro is our everyday 3B and you still want to make this point? 

It's just game three. 

Your paper lineup doesn't have any staying power. You are standing in the middle of a lineup already in flux around you. 

But... Nevermind all of that. Polanco would not be a bench player.  

[Riverbrian]

@Sherry Cerny

I do want to say and I have told Sherry this before. I normally enjoy her writeups. 

This one... Well... Sherry... I hope you try again. 😄

[RpR]

After an abysmal start, Polanco is putting up the numbers now for Seattle that would be expected from him , with the bat.

Polanco was never a great fielder, but he was moved much quicker and had a wider range than Julien does.

We will miss his bat greatly in the long run.

[Linus]

I have no problem saying that For 2024 Polanco would be better than Julien. He’s a better fielder and I believe he will put up as good or better offensive numbers while hitting righties and lefties. Julien had a good half season with a sky high babip. It would come as no surprise if he regresses pretty hard. 

[DocBauer]

I am soo resistant to join this discussion! LOL! 

But I can't help myself! So I have to put my personal opinions in place. 

1] Polanco is a hell of a baseball player. He's one of the most underrated players the Twins have had for the past decade. He was stretched as a ML SS, but he wasn't awful. He was pretty good as a 2B, sometimes very good. If his knees weren't a factor, he might have not been traded at all.

2] Julien is OK defensively and keeps getting better and better through repition and hard work. To say otherwise means you aren't actually watching games. His bat PLAYS! And he's probably better as a 2B fill in and 1B/DH going forward. And that's not an insult to his ability, but the simple fact that if the INF is healthy, Lee just has more ability to be a a better defensive player. You could debate Lee and Lewis at 2B, but why bother. 

2] Even with Lewis, Lee, and Julien ALL healthy,  does it matter who plays where daily with AK at 1B, some OF, the DH spot, etc, do you EVER have ENOUGH talent that you feel guilty?

3] I UNDERSTAND the VALUE of what the Twins got in the Polanco trade. I really do. They got Topa...who I can't wait to see...and a top 100 prospect in Gonzalez. The return wasn't bad at all. But the $4M for the Santana signing and the "hopeful" DeScalfini option as a SP option just never made sense.

4] BUT, I never would have traded Polanco, even with some health question marks, for Topa and a top 100 prospect unless it was a deal with another couple decent prospects for a SP option!

The system is deep enough to have survived Polanco and a couple solid prospects for a rotation arm.

5] I would much rather have Polanco as a 1B than Santana and his $4M+. Think about it for a moment with no disrespect to Santana. You could have Polanco and also, potentially, Kirilloff and Miranda and even Julien playing 1B instead of the combined about $8-9M to for Santana and the LOST DeScalfini deal and potentially "lose out" on Topa and a top 100 prospect.  What would you choose today?

[Major League Ready]

11 hours ago, DocBauer said:

I am soo resistant to join this discussion! LOL! 

But I can't help myself! So I have to put my personal opinions in place. 

1] Polanco is a hell of a baseball player. He's one of the most underrated players the Twins have had for the past decade. He was stretched as a ML SS, but he wasn't awful. He was pretty good as a 2B, sometimes very good. If his knees weren't a factor, he might have not been traded at all.

2] Julien is OK defensively and keeps getting better and better through repition and hard work. To say otherwise means you aren't actually watching games. His bat PLAYS! And he's probably better as a 2B fill in and 1B/DH going forward. And that's not an insult to his ability, but the simple fact that if the INF is healthy, Lee just has more ability to be a a better defensive player. You could debate Lee and Lewis at 2B, but why bother. 

2] Even with Lewis, Lee, and Julien ALL healthy,  does it matter who plays where daily with AK at 1B, some OF, the DH spot, etc, do you EVER have ENOUGH talent that you feel guilty?

3] I UNDERSTAND the VALUE of what the Twins got in the Polanco trade. I really do. They got Topa...who I can't wait to see...and a top 100 prospect in Gonzalez. The return wasn't bad at all. But the $4M for the Santana signing and the "hopeful" DeScalfini option as a SP option just never made sense.

4] BUT, I never would have traded Polanco, even with some health question marks, for Topa and a top 100 prospect unless it was a deal with another couple decent prospects for a SP option!

The system is deep enough to have survived Polanco and a couple solid prospects for a rotation arm.

5] I would much rather have Polanco as a 1B than Santana and his $4M+. Think about it for a moment with no disrespect to Santana. You could have Polanco and also, potentially, Kirilloff and Miranda and even Julien playing 1B instead of the combined about $8-9M to for Santana and the LOST DeScalfini deal and potentially "lose out" on Topa and a top 100 prospect.  What would you choose today?

Doc, a lot of the angst over Polanco is that he was not part of a trade that brought in a front of the rotation SP.  It’s perfectly understandable that as fans we want the ideal trade to be made.  In this case, that’s a top SP with multiple years of control.  The problem is that one SP that matches this description was traded this year and it was made by a division rival.  Of course, it’s very rare for that type of trade to be made between division rivals.  It’s also a very reasonable assumption that many teams would have traded for one of Seattle’s starting pitchers.  Yet, none of them were able to get that done.  This is where being upset at what was not done becomes rather unreasonable.

[Linus]

23 hours ago, DocBauer said:

I am soo resistant to join this discussion! LOL! 

But I can't help myself! So I have to put my personal opinions in place. 

1] Polanco is a hell of a baseball player. He's one of the most underrated players the Twins have had for the past decade. He was stretched as a ML SS, but he wasn't awful. He was pretty good as a 2B, sometimes very good. If his knees weren't a factor, he might have not been traded at all.

2] Julien is OK defensively and keeps getting better and better through repition and hard work. To say otherwise means you aren't actually watching games. His bat PLAYS! And he's probably better as a 2B fill in and 1B/DH going forward. And that's not an insult to his ability, but the simple fact that if the INF is healthy, Lee just has more ability to be a a better defensive player. You could debate Lee and Lewis at 2B, but why bother. 

2] Even with Lewis, Lee, and Julien ALL healthy,  does it matter who plays where daily with AK at 1B, some OF, the DH spot, etc, do you EVER have ENOUGH talent that you feel guilty?

3] I UNDERSTAND the VALUE of what the Twins got in the Polanco trade. I really do. They got Topa...who I can't wait to see...and a top 100 prospect in Gonzalez. The return wasn't bad at all. But the $4M for the Santana signing and the "hopeful" DeScalfini option as a SP option just never made sense.

4] BUT, I never would have traded Polanco, even with some health question marks, for Topa and a top 100 prospect unless it was a deal with another couple decent prospects for a SP option!

The system is deep enough to have survived Polanco and a couple solid prospects for a rotation arm.

5] I would much rather have Polanco as a 1B than Santana and his $4M+. Think about it for a moment with no disrespect to Santana. You could have Polanco and also, potentially, Kirilloff and Miranda and even Julien playing 1B instead of the combined about $8-9M to for Santana and the LOST DeScalfini deal and potentially "lose out" on Topa and a top 100 prospect.  What would you choose today?

I watch nearly every game. People have created this feel good scale for Julien and his fielding. He was so bad at the beginning that people are very excited when he makes a couple plays. He has a habit of making mistakes at crucial times. His arm is erratic and has hard hands. His work around the bag on DP is poor whether he is turning it or feeding it. It’s little things that add up: the other night his feed to Castro is off time and high. Castro has to double clutch and the hitter is safe at first. When he is turning the DP he stabs at the ball separating his hands meaning he’s slow to get the throw off. Oh and he is hitting 167 with a 637 OPS. He deserves to go to AAA as much as Wallner maybe more so. 

[Danchat]

On 4/16/2024 at 2:30 PM, RpR said:

After an abysmal start, Polanco is putting up the numbers now for Seattle that would be expected from him , with the bat.

Polanco was never a great fielder, but he was moved much quicker and had a wider range than Julien does.

We will miss his bat greatly in the long run.

Polanco is still hitting .194 with a .681 OPS to start the year, both he and Julien are starting off the year slow and if Jorge were still here we would be lumping him in with the "slumping hitters" category. And I'm unsure about these claims about his range, Fangraph's fielding stats had him at an average to below average fielder at 2B last year.

Still, in hindsight clearly we needed to keep Polanco... but our offense would still be poor even with him (and his .194 average) in the lineup. Even with his questionable fielding and ankle problems, he'd be a godsend as the primary DH on this team.