Resolving the Apparent Infield Logjam

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm saying it was/is possible to get pitching for Julien. Each person just has to determine what they feel is an appropriate return. That's what the Twins have to do. The Orioles felt they had an "infield logjam" so they traded 6 years of one of their infielders and more for 1 year of Burnes. Yikes, I guess.

Yup, but the O's are in a different spot (budget, team quality, depth), and I'm asking....would YOU trade 5 years of Julien plus more for 1 of Burnes if you were the Twins FO? 

[chpettit19]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

Yup, but the O's are in a different spot (budget, team quality, depth), and I'm asking....would YOU trade 5 years of Julien plus more for 1 of Burnes if you were the Twins FO? 

Yes, I would. But I wouldn't have traded Polanco so there's a lot more factors in all of it. But in a vacuum, yes I'd trade 5 years of Julien for 1 year of Burnes.

[wabene]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Yes, I would. But I wouldn't have traded Polanco so there's a lot more factors in all of it. But in a vacuum, yes I'd trade 5 years of Julien for 1 year of Burnes.

I agree with you much of the time, but this is not something I would do. I would trade Lee first, I think Julien is special. I'm not sure I would trade Lee though for just a one year rental.

[chpettit19]

Just now, wabene said:

I agree with you much of the time, but this is not something I would do. I would trade Lee first, I think Julien is special. I'm not sure I would trade Lee though for just a ones year rental.

I'd be open to trading either of them. Walker Jenkins is the only young guy I wouldn't be open to trading. That's part of the challenging thing about a hypothetical like this. If I were actually in charge of the team there are several moves I would've made that were different so we have to speak in pretty broad terms, because my roster would look different than this one (wouldn't have made that Polanco trade, for example).

I know I'm in the minority when it comes to my willingness to make trades for 1 year rentals. And I don't think it's outrageous at all that most people don't agree. I certainly understand the stance against it. That's what makes TD so fun. We get so many different points of view and it's actually pretty similar to an actual FO. I can promise you there are people in the Twins FO that would've traded for Burnes, but the guys making the final decisions wouldn't (apparently).

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Yes, I would. But I wouldn't have traded Polanco so there's a lot more factors in all of it. But in a vacuum, yes I'd trade 5 years of Julien for 1 year of Burnes.

Fair enough, we'll definitely disagree on that (and where are you paying for this given their constraints?).

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

Fair enough, we'll definitely disagree on that (and where are you paying for this given their constraints?).

Kyle Farmer and Christian Vazquez would no longer be on my team. Not to mention Carlos Santana if we're just talking about the current roster.

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Kyle Farmer and Christian Vazquez would no longer be on my team. Not to mention Carlos Santana if we're just talking about the current roster.

I could see Farmer (I wouldn't do that), but are you replacing Vazquez with a cheap vet, or Camargo? Just curious, and we agree on Santana for sure, even with the current roster. That's not going to go well. 

[nicksaviking]

40 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

You're suggesting trading 5 years of Julien and more for 1 year of Burnes? Yikes. Sure, the Brewers say yes to that all day, but no way the TWins should have done that. No way.

I wanted nothing to do with Burnes, I want one more top end starter for the foreseeable future, than infill the rotation with players in house in the coming years. I hoped, and still do, that the Twins are talking to the Marlins though. If they can get the top of the rotation settled, it seems to me this team would just be that one awkward prospect trade away from not having to so again for awhile.

[chpettit19]

5 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I could see Farmer (I wouldn't do that), but are you replacing Vazquez with a cheap vet, or Camargo? Just curious, and we agree on Santana for sure, even with the current roster. That's not going to go well. 

I would've signed Maldonado. But I'm also more willing than the Twins to let my primary catcher catch 120 games while having the other guy be a cheap, defensive vet who's good with a pitching staff.

[Linus]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Which good SP is available, from a team needing immediate help at 2B, that would be traded? Seattle isn't dealing their good SP..... Who else is out there that we are so sure they could just trade a potential star hitter with 5 years of control and get value in return?

Well neither of us know for certain what pitchers were available. The only thing we know was Seattle wasn’t trading their pitching for Polanco. Julien has way more trade value than Polo. Julien plus another good prospect is a whole different equation. Obviously we will never know the answer but conceptually I liked that path better. 

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I would've signed Maldonado. But I'm also more willing than the Twins to let my primary catcher catch 120 games while having the other guy be a cheap, defensive vet who's good with a pitching staff.

same. 

[DocBauer]

What Brian said.

I chose none of the above as Lee will be up at some time this year, and assuredly for 2025. 

I don't think a log jam actually exists now, or the near future. Lewis, Correa, Lee, AK is your primary starting 4. Julien covers 2B/1B and plays a ton at DH. Further, both Lee and Lewis can cover SS. Castro can play everywhere and does so well, IMO. Pretty good chance Miranda or Severino makes the club at some point...Farmer and Santana gone by this time...to help cover the corners, PH, and DH. Although, they might have a Prato as another super utility player for more depth and versatility.

Really, only a log jam with all of the above, plus adding in Schobel and Keaschall In a year or so. So eventually, someone(s) get traded.

Can Lewis move to the OF? Sure, but I wouldn't do it. It's harder to find a great INF than an OF. Further, Buxton, Martin, and Wallner all in the OF as early as this year? Emma, Rosario, Gonzalez, and Jenkins all up over the next 2 years? Makes no sense to me to put Lewis in the OF unless it's on an occasional basis for roster flexibility. I'm in favor of mostly/semi position less baseball.

I don't see a problem. I only see talent, depth, and exciting possibilities. If there's any issue, it's who gets moved and when as you can't keep 18 position players on your roster. 

[Riverbrian]

Just stopping by the water to check on that log jam. 

Memories are short. Next off-season just like every off season... we will speak of those mythical log jams once again. 

I've still never seen one. I'll keep checking. 

[USAFChief]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Just stopping by the water to check on that log jam. 

Memories are short. Next off-season just like every off season... we will speak of those mythical log jams once again. 

I've still never seen one. I'll keep checking. 

The overflowing bullpen is low on water as well.

[Riverbrian]

19 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

The overflowing bullpen is low on water as well.

No worries

I'm sure we will have a log jam full of them next off-season. We can trade Duran to make space. 😉

[Mike Sixel]

58 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

The overflowing bullpen is low on water as well.

Come on. No one thinks seven guys will get hurt. What would you want them to do to get ready for that?

[USAFChief]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Come on. No one thinks seven guys will get hurt. What would you want them to do to get ready for that?

Not corner the "DFA'd 33 year old reliever" market and call it "done and done?"

 

In reality, they've been a little unlucky.  But it does show the preposterousness* of ever assuming there's a log jam of talent, or someone is "blocked" in AAA.

They traded for Michael Tonkin for the specific purpose of getting 2 innings in an April game in Detroit. DfA'd before the box score was printed.

 

*possibly not actually a word, but it sure as heck should be

[Jocko87]

Yup, log jam should be depth-with plans to use it.  This injury stack is odd that it had to be specific infielders to put them in a jam, they lost the two guys that make depth somewhat irrelevant.  Losing the prospect that backfills both of them doesn't help either.

None of the injuries being obvious 60 day IL candidates is a season long blessing but a short term roster nightmare.  At least the Braves can move on without Strider.  

They will have solid major leaguers filling in mainly and should be credited for that, keep the head above water and get healthy.  It's a supreme test of the log jam-err depth though.  More than they could possibly have had roster space to cover. 

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Yup, log jam should be depth-with plans to use it.  This injury stack is odd that it had to be specific infielders to put them in a jam, they lost the two guys that make depth somewhat irrelevant.  Losing the prospect that backfills both of them doesn't help either.

None of the injuries being obvious 60 day IL candidates is a season long blessing but a short term roster nightmare.  At least the Braves can move on without Strider.  

They will have solid major leaguers filling in mainly and should be credited for that, keep the head above water and get healthy.  It's a supreme test of the log jam-err depth though.  More than they could possibly have had roster space to cover. 

What are the odds your backup also gets hurt? How many major league backups are in AAA on most teams? Very few. Losing Lee is a blow 

As for polanco, if I had to trade someone, it would have been Kepler and Vazquez....

[Mike Sixel]

38 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Not corner the "DFA'd 33 year old reliever" market and call it "done and done?"

 

In reality, they've been a little unlucky.  But it does show the preposterousness* of ever assuming there's a log jam of talent, or someone is "blocked" in AAA.

They traded for Michael Tonkin for the specific purpose of getting 2 innings in an April game in Detroit. DfA'd before the box score was printed.

 

*possibly not actually a word, but it sure as heck should be

How many relief pitchers in their prime are available? You begged them to add RPs.... There aren't a bunch of 29 year old free agents ...

[Hubie29]

Isn't it wonderful to have so many super star players that we have to worry about how we can play them all?  Not many teams can say that.  I am going to look at the stats and standings to see how that puts us so far ahead of the competition. 

[jorgenswest]

I read that they are going to Castro at SS. I agree with the it. It really makes me wonder how they thought giving Farmer that two year contract was a wise idea at the same time they are cutting 30 million off the budget. I have no confidence that this front office can operate in a tight budget. Adding Farmer, Santana, DeSclafani and Margot this winter needs to work or they must be replaced. Once replaced, the new front office can decide in the manager they want to lead this club.

Meanwhile I started the grieving process on whether this team planned to contend on the day of the Polanco trade. It is time to enjoy these games one at a time and leave the thoughts of a ring for another season.

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

I read that they are going to Castro at SS. I agree with the it. It really makes me wonder how they thought giving Farmer that two year contract was a wise idea at the same time they are cutting 30 million off the budget. I have no confidence that this front office can operate in a tight budget. Adding Farmer, Santana, DeSclafani and Margot this winter needs to work or they must be replaced. Once replaced, the new front office can decide in the manager they want to lead this club.

Meanwhile I started the grieving process on whether this team planned to contend on the day of the Polanco trade. It is time to enjoy these games one at a time and leave the thoughts of a ring for another season.

They just won a playoff series and you want to fire them?

[jorgenswest]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

They just won a playoff series and you want to fire them?

No. I want the moves they made this winter to lead to wins. Farmer, Santana, Margot and DeSclafani are the 6th through 9th highest payed players on the club. They need to perform accordingly. I hope I am wrong but I did not believe those moves took the team in the right direction. 

That playoff series win earned the front office this year but not beyond. This year matters.

[Hubie29]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

They just won a playoff series and you want to fire them?

Now you're just teasing us.

[wabene]

The blame here is misplaced. This front office took an organization in shambles and has brought it a long way. Yes a true contender should be the goal, but how quickly we forget how bad it was. From the Twins Way of the McPhail/Kelly era to pitch to contact and total system failure. This off-season the front office was hung out to dry by ownership.

[Rosterman]

Shoiws how you can never project the future. Having Polanco or Gordon still on the team looks pretty good right now.

[Linus]

7 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

I read that they are going to Castro at SS. I agree with the it. It really makes me wonder how they thought giving Farmer that two year contract was a wise idea at the same time they are cutting 30 million off the budget. I have no confidence that this front office can operate in a tight budget. Adding Farmer, Santana, DeSclafani and Margot this winter needs to work or they must be replaced. Once replaced, the new front office can decide in the manager they want to lead this club.

Meanwhile I started the grieving process on whether this team planned to contend on the day of the Polanco trade. It is time to enjoy these games one at a time and leave the thoughts of a ring for another season.

Yea that was my first thought when I saw that. I assumed the only reason they would bring Farmer back was because he was going to be the backup at short. If that is not case I would have traded him and kept Polanco. 

[FlyingFinn]

9 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

I started the grieving process on whether this team planned to contend on the day of the Polanco trade.

I didn't really like the package we got for Polanco but Julien is better than Polanco right now. Julien's defense has improved and Polanco's range has decreased. Polanco's stats so far (SSS I know) - batting .176 with 1 homer, 6 BB's and 20 K's. I'm not sure Mariners fans are happy with the trade.

[jorgenswest]

51 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

I didn't really like the package we got for Polanco but Julien is better than Polanco right now. Julien's defense has improved and Polanco's range has decreased. Polanco's stats so far (SSS I know) - batting .176 with 1 homer, 6 BB's and 20 K's. I'm not sure Mariners fans are happy with the trade.

I don’t know how Polanco would be performing had he remained. It could be there are no winners in this trade for 2024. If the funds are limited I want a front office that will spend the dollars on fewer or even one significant players and fill the other roster spots from within. They had around 20 million to add to the roster this winter. They chose to add Farmer, DeSclafani, Santana and Margot. At year’s end they need to be accountable partly based on how the four perform.