Las Vegas Athletics

[ashbury]

I haven't seen any mention here of the news that the Oakland Athletics have purchased some land for a ballpark in Las Vegas.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/as-moving-las-vegas-stadium-land-deal-oakland/aeqk570w53qeb6wrfncvcp2w

Mrs Ash and I are headed down to Oakland at the end of the month and will watch the A's play the Reds.  I know I'm in the vast minority, but I will miss the Coliseum, a green cathedral in a location with temperate weather and blue skies, where I have happy memories watching baseball when the snow is still piled up back home.

[nicksaviking]

Seemed inevitable, but sounds like there's no stopping the relocation now.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/athletics/major-league-deal-as-to-purchase-land-near-strip-for-new-ballpark-2764701/

In this case the city isn't without some liability I feel as that truly is a wretched stadium that they never had much appetite to fix.

However, that ownership group sounds as vile as any in the sport. They have suppressed payroll for decades for the sole purpose of negotiating a better stadium deal, and now this sounds like the A's will fully fund the new Vegas stadium while Vegas is letting them develop the land around it. They were never offering to fully fund or even majority fund the proposed stadium in Oakland. I'd feel bad for Oakland fans but the franchise seems to have made a concerted effort to have no fans at this point.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's sad for Oakland - that team has some amazing history in the town - but frankly, my disappointment is tempered because it's a good personal opportunity for me. We'll almost certainly launch a Vegas site for the team.

[Vanimal46]

There was ample time and opportunity to get something done in Oakland. I’m glad there is finally pressure being put on the organization to get out of that absolute dump of a stadium. 

Tampa Bay, you’re on the clock. 

[laloesch]

35 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Seemed inevitable, but sounds like there's no stopping the relocation now.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/athletics/major-league-deal-as-to-purchase-land-near-strip-for-new-ballpark-2764701/

In this case the city isn't without some liability I feel as that truly is a wretched stadium that they never had much appetite to fix.

However, that ownership group sounds as vile as any in the sport. They have suppressed payroll for decades for the sole purpose of negotiating a better stadium deal, and now this sounds like the A's will fully fund the new Vegas stadium while Vegas is letting them develop the land around it. They were never offering to fully fund or even majority fund the proposed stadium in Oakland. I'd feel bad for Oakland fans but the franchise seems to have made a concerted effort to have no fans at this point.

Yeahhhh but the Coliseum is an absolute toilet bowl of a stadium, worse than the Metrodome so they did have a pretty strong case.

[USNMCPO]

38 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Seemed inevitable, but sounds like there's no stopping the relocation now.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/athletics/major-league-deal-as-to-purchase-land-near-strip-for-new-ballpark-2764701/

In this case the city isn't without some liability I feel as that truly is a wretched stadium that they never had much appetite to fix.

However, that ownership group sounds as vile as any in the sport. They have suppressed payroll for decades for the sole purpose of negotiating a better stadium deal, and now this sounds like the A's will fully fund the new Vegas stadium while Vegas is letting them develop the land around it. They were never offering to fully fund or even majority fund the proposed stadium in Oakland. I'd feel bad for Oakland fans but the franchise seems to have made a concerted effort to have no fans at this point.

A lot of folks also do not get that the A's have virtually no area in the Bay area to claim as their own. I don't remember the facts but decades ago the A's had to forfeit their territory rights to the Giants and were only able to keep the Oakland/Alameda territory while the Giants got all the rest. That severely diminished the value/profit of the A's. MLB was a major player in this decision. i the nk it happened back in the Charlie Finley era.

[laloesch]

I would not be surprised in the least if the Tampa Bay Devil Rays end up moving to Nashville.  They've been linked to them before and their stadium deal expires in 2027. tic toc, tic toc.

[DJL44]

13 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

There was ample time and opportunity to get something done in Oakland. I’m glad there is finally pressure being put on the organization to get out of that absolute dump of a stadium. 

Last offer from the local government was $400M toward the new stadium in Oakland. Smart decision by the city of Oakland to not bankrupt itself when locals who want to see MLB can take the ferry to a Giants game.

They could move the Las Vegas AAA team to Oakland and we could see the Oakland Oaks return to the Pacific Coast League.

[Muppet]

We are at peak baseball in the US mainland. Time for a team in San Juan or Monterrey. 

[Vanimal46]

5 minutes ago, laloesch said:

I would not be surprised in the least if the Tampa Bay Devil Rays end up moving to Nashville.  They've been linked to them before and their stadium deal expires in 2027. tic toc, tic toc.

I think they’ll keep Nashville open as the expansion city when they add 2 more teams to the league. 

Is Montreal ready to support an MLB team full time again? Charlotte?

[jkcarew]

Yeah. Feel bad for any local A's fans. But Oakland wasn't going to work...and for more reasons than just the stadium. I can't blame ownership on this one. I guess they could have been more transparent in the process, but don't know how realistic that is given the need to maintain a little leverage with Vegas and/or whoever else may have been in play.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

I think it's very sad that they are (apparently) making the move.  There is a pretty substantial history with the Oakland franchise, but the last several years have been abysmal, with mostly a bad product on the field and a terrible old stadium to boot.  I would rather they find a way to build  a new stadium in Oakland, but remember, the Oakland Athletics were the Kansas City Athletics before they were in Oakland.  I guess we'll get used to the Las Vegas Athletics (Gamblers? Cash? Craps?) and it may give them a better chance to put a good product on the field, if the owners actually choose to do that.

 

[laloesch]

5 minutes ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

I think it's very sad that they are (apparently) making the move.  There is a pretty substantial history with the Oakland franchise, but the last several years have been abysmal, with mostly a bad product on the field and a terrible old stadium to boot.  I would rather they find a way to build  a new stadium in Oakland, but remember, the Oakland Athletics were the Kansas City Athletics before they were in Oakland.  I guess we'll get used to the Las Vegas Athletics (Gamblers? Cash? Craps?) and it may give them a better chance to put a good product on the field, if the owners actually choose to do that.

 

I like the Vegas Gamblers.  Does this mean that MLB will have to reinstate Pete Rose?  I mean for heaven's sake the commissioner is backing a team in the gambling mecca of the country.

[laloesch]

4 hours ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

Sad for the limited A's fans in Oakland.  I was stationed in Alameda in the mid 70's and they were the big guys in town much more so than the Giants and they had a large fan base.  Not sure what happened, but as USNMCPO says, if their territorial (assuming broadcast) rights were lost to the Giants, I can see why attendance has diminished over the years.

Oakland has traditionally been unwilling to fund a stadium.  It sounded, according to the mayor in the article, that the city has approved partial funding and they are not happy with the A's looking to LV.  My opinion is that Oakland had years and years to address this issue and just let it hang out there and did nothing until it got to the point of no return.

As for A's ownership, it is unclear whether their low payrolls over the recent years is mostly due to a lack of revenue from attendance or them just being cheap.  I suspect it is a combination of both with more emphasis on the latter.

Sad for A's fans but somewhat happy for LV fans.  They deserve a BB team there.

Lastly, I truly hope the Rays get out of Tampa.  That team is always good and the fans do not support it.  They also deserve better than what they have gotten from that area.  I'd love to see them go to Nashville or Montreal.  I think Montreal would support a team as Toronto does.  Every city deserves a second chance (see Stars / Wild).

Montreal is not a good destination for baseball in my opinion.  They had two years of 2 million + attendance over their 35 years of play in that city (from 1969 - 2004), and that's atrocious.  Montreal is quite a bit different culturally than greater Canada.  I doubt they would support a team given that hockey is king in Canada.  The BlueJays have done reasonably well attendance wise partly because its the biggest population center in Canada and the powerhouse of the Golden Horseshoe, but it's also the most culturally diverse city of Ontario and the eastern provinces.  

I still think Nashville gets a team and soon.  They've had redevelopment plans for a downtown stadium for several years now and it has the backing of city council and the major.  They've also lined up several potential developers and have brought Don Mattingly in to advocate for the massive project.  My understanding is that they will name the team the "Nashville Stars" in honor of the famous Negro leagues team that resided there.

On a different note from what i've read the negotiations with Tampa/St. Pete and the Rays has been mostly stalled for quite a while now.  I know the commissioner prefers they stay put in that general vicinity, but they also said the same thing about Oakland before the move to Las Vegas too.  We shall see.

[nicksaviking]

33 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I think they’ll keep Nashville open as the expansion city when they add 2 more teams to the league. 

Is Montreal ready to support an MLB team full time again? Charlotte?

Nashville, Portland and now Salt Lake City (don't see that happening) are the places with established groups campaigning for a team. Since MLB has four places, including St Pete, vying for only one team now, I'd guess they'd pit them all against each other and make sure the word 'expansion' is verboten from all league talks until they fleece the city with the most generous offer.

[DJL44]

25 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

Lastly, I truly hope the Rays get out of Tampa.  

I actually hope the Rays get out of St. Petersburg and INTO Tampa. They could draw fans if they weren't surrounded by water on all sides.

[Dave Borton]

46 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Last offer from the local government was $400M toward the new stadium in Oakland. Smart decision by the city of Oakland to not bankrupt itself when locals who want to see MLB can take the ferry to a Giants game.

They could move the Las Vegas AAA team to Oakland and we could see the Oakland Oaks return to the Pacific Coast League.

We'll see if Tucson Toros get resurrected in the PCL.

[laloesch]

 

4 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Nashville, Portland and now Salt Lake City (don't see that happening) are the places with established groups campaigning for a team. Since MLB has four places, including St Pete, vying for only one team now, I'd guess they'd pit them all against each other and make sure the word 'expansion' is verboten from all league talks until they fleece the city with the most generous offer.

 

Nashville for sure.  I'm not sure about Portland though, they have big crime issues downtown to contend with so that might factor into the decision.  Salt Lake City might also be more viable than some would think due to it's location.  It would be a possible addition to the NL whereas Nashville would likely be an AL add.  I've also heard San Antonio, Charlotte, and Oklahoma City as possible locations.   

[tony&rodney]

39 minutes ago, laloesch said:

I'm not sure about Portland though, they have big crime issues downtown to contend with so that might factor into the decision. 

I was curious and looked a few things up .... statistics ... U. S. violent crime per 100,000: Minneapolis = #43, St. Paul = #62, Portland = #78, Nashville = #21, OKC = #34, Charlotte = #45, San Antonio = #55, Salt Lake City is not in the top 100, and St. Louis is #1.

Looks like Portland, Oregon is among the safer places among U. S. metropolitan cities, although it rates highly for motor vehicle thefts. 

 

[tony&rodney]

Sorry, I forgot to add that I used 2019 FBI UCR stats. There may be changes from later reports. I was curious and quickly used what popped up.

[Unwinder]

Anecdotally, I know people from Canada who follow the Blue Jays closely but live nearer to Montreal than Toronto, I think it's very possible that the success and popularity of the Jays has increased support for another Canadian team (from what I've read, part of the problem with the Expos was that they were... not good?).

[Nine of twelve]

6 hours ago, laloesch said:

I would not be surprised in the least if the Tampa Bay Devil Rays end up moving to Nashville.  They've been linked to them before and their stadium deal expires in 2027. tic toc, tic toc.

They have not been the Devil Rays since 2007.

[Nine of twelve]

8 hours ago, Muppet said:

We are at peak baseball in the US mainland. Time for a team in San Juan or Monterrey. 

No way. Neither city has enough money or enough people for a MLB team. Not even close. The only cities outside the US with even a remote chance are Montreal and Mexico City. Within the US, I do not see Portland or Utah as viable locations at all. Again, not enough money or people. There are enough of both in Florida to support two teams if those teams are run properly. I suppose Las Vegas, North Carolina, and Tennessee are possibilities, but the state with the largest current population growth is Texas. The questions there are where to put a third team that would develop a large enough following and how to make a third team acceptable to the Rangers and Astros franchises.

[jctwins]

Oakland has become a terrible market, but no one is talking about what makes Las Vegas a good market? It doesn't seem like there is any reason to think there will be a baseball culture there, and baseball doesn't feel like a travel destination the way football is.

[Reptevia]

“Is Montreal ready to support an MLB team full time again? “. 

 

If they give Montreal an MLB team, they will next want an NHL team!😀

[Puckett34]

Feel bad for Oakland fans.

[Mike Sixel]

22 hours ago, laloesch said:

 

 

Nashville for sure.  I'm not sure about Portland though, they have big crime issues downtown to contend with so that might factor into the decision.  Salt Lake City might also be more viable than some would think due to it's location.  It would be a possible addition to the NL whereas Nashville would likely be an AL add.  I've also heard San Antonio, Charlotte, and Oklahoma City as possible locations.   

I live in Portland, you can walk anywhere alone. The likely stadium site is in an area that has seen some good development, and a stadium would really accelerate that. That said, I don't think there are enough big companies here to fill all the suites. Outside Intel and the shoe companies, it's a lot of small companies. Also, this government isn't going to give a billion dollars to billionaires to fund a stadium. So, no way a team comes here, imo. 

[Mike Sixel]

21 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

I was curious and looked a few things up .... statistics ... U. S. violent crime per 100,000: Minneapolis = #43, St. Paul = #62, Portland = #78, Nashville = #21, OKC = #34, Charlotte = #45, San Antonio = #55, Salt Lake City is not in the top 100, and St. Louis is #1.

Looks like Portland, Oregon is among the safer places among U. S. metropolitan cities, although it rates highly for motor vehicle thefts. 

 

Stats.... And truth

[tony&rodney]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I live in Portland, you can walk anywhere alone. The likely stadium site is in an area that has seen some good development, and a stadium would really accelerate that. That said, I don't think there are enough big companies here to fill all the suites. Outside Intel and the shoe companies, it's a lot of small companies. Also, this government isn't going to give a billion dollars to billionaires to fund a stadium. So, no way a team comes here, imo. 

My experiences as a visitor are similar to yours. I have a good friend who moved there in 1985 and he loves the area. My son, who accounts for my visits, also lives in Portland. He loves it and bought a house in the city. Lastly, I have known numerous people who attended one of Lewis & Clark College, Reed College, and Portland State University and absolutely every one of them loved the city. It is too rainy for me.

I also can see the potential problems connected with the lack of big corporate businesses and how this can be a significant barrier to getting a team. Lastly, your point about the population and government going all welfare for billionaires as most communities do will certainly not sell in Portland imho. I'm always surprised how easily billionaire business people manage to collect welfare in the United States. But oh well, whatever works. All of that said, I don't really have a good enough feel for Portland to know if the community would support an MLB team by filling a stadium on a consistent basis similar to Seattle.

[Mike Sixel]

29 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

My experiences as a visitor are similar to yours. I have a good friend who moved there in 1985 and he loves the area. My son, who accounts for my visits, also lives in Portland. He loves it and bought a house in the city. Lastly, I have known numerous people who attended one of Lewis & Clark College, Reed College, and Portland State University and absolutely every one of them loved the city. It is too rainy for me.

I also can see the potential problems connected with the lack of big corporate businesses and how this can be a significant barrier to getting a team. Lastly, your point about the population and government going all welfare for billionaires as most communities do will certainly not sell in Portland imho. I'm always surprised how easily billionaire business people manage to collect welfare in the United States. But oh well, whatever works. All of that said, I don't really have a good enough feel for Portland to know if the community would support an MLB team by filling a stadium on a consistent basis similar to Seattle.

I think the are fans, but I'm not sure that's enough.