Rumor: Cardinals Announce They Will Be Sellers, Want Pitching

[IndianaTwin]

4 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

That's their MO, the big name players leave or retire only when their contract is up. Then they sign or trade for more of course.

In a vacuum I could care less about speculating about players who surely won't move, but we've seen this game before. We discuss what it would take to trade for a big name player, then when that player doesn't get traded, a certain segment of the fanbase gets out the pitchforks and starts calling ownership and the front office a failure for not getting it done and the other posters 'apologists' when they point out it was never going to happen.

In agreement, and to summarize...

Twins likelihood of trading Correa          >         Cards likelihood of trading Arenado or Goldy

 

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

That's their MO, the big name players leave or retire only when their contract is up. Then they sign or trade for more of course.

In a vacuum I could care less about speculating about players who surely won't move, but we've seen this game before. We discuss what it would take to trade for a big name player, then when that player doesn't get traded, a certain segment of the fanbase gets out the pitchforks and starts calling ownership and the front office a failure for not getting it done and the other posters 'apologists' when they point out it was never going to happen.

That last sentence is prescient for sure. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I think what makes this interesting is that how often do the Cardinals declare they are sellers? Probably not often

[2wins87]

3 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I mean, Goldschmidt would be incredible. But I don't know that they would trade him or that he would even waive his no trade.

Jordan Hicks would be fun in the bullpen.

Tommy Edman could be a 3b option, at least until Lewis can play. I wouldn't mind that either.

Edman is basically Kepler but at infield positions.  Doesn't move the needle for this team offensively, I don't see how it would be worth whatever they would have to give up.

I would have tepid interest in Hicks who would be cheap to acquire.  He still struggles to throw strikes, I'm not sure how much he can be trusted.

Goldschmidt, obviously, would help, but I agree it's kind of hard to even contemplate how that trade would come together

[nicksaviking]

12 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I think what makes this interesting is that how often do the Cardinals declare they are sellers? Probably not often

One season with a losing record this century, along with 16 playoff appearances and two World Series Championships will do that to a club I suppose.

Did I sound jealous? I totally wasn't. Couldn't be further from jealous.

[chpettit19]

Yeah, still don't see the Twins as a good fit for trades with the Cards. Simply don't have the arms they'd want, and we'd be able to survive giving up for the future years. As much as I'd love a few of their position players I just don't see us having the ammunition to get that level of players, or see them actually looking to trade them.

[Brandon]

I would love for them to trade for Goldschmidt.  Since he is not likely available, lets go with an inexpensive RH hitting OF bat like Pham.  I think the Twins need to horde their prospects a little bit more this year.  last year we sent out alot of them and we need to restock.  Good thing we had a good draft this year as that will help.  I think we also had a solid international prospect signing season too if I remember correctly.  so hopefully our system rebounds quickly with lots of prospects coming down the pipeline soon.  

[Nine of twelve]

What the Cardinals are saying is, "Make us an offer and we'll consider the ones that overpay the most." I don't think we are in a position to make overpaying worthwhile. I think Texas is the most likely to do that, maybe Atlanta or Toronto also.

[Canton Clark]

In a hypothetical world - Nolan Arenado would be a really great fit. Crushes lefties, Low K % +... Correa + Arenado creates best left side of the infield defensively .... But, he'd have to wave his No - Trade clause AND the Twins would have to be comfortable moving Royce to lef field (highly doubtful) AND of course the $$$ .. Imagine a package would be something like Bailey Ober + Brooks Lee + lottery ticket .. Gotta have Jordan Montgomery back though to slot in for Ober. Hypothetically, would do that.

[KirbyDome89]

5 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

I would offer the SS we got from Miami & SWR & Winder & Moran.

If the Twins were sending out a talent like Goldschmidt, would you be happy with that return? Be honest. 

This looks like a fantasy football swap where one side thinks they can throw together a handful of spare parts on the bench and poach a RB1. 

[dxpavelka]

Just cuz  they're gonna be sellers doesn't mean that what they're selling is in our price range or even that it should be.

 

[Aerodeliria]

Because of the mess in CF, why don't we shoot a little lower and try to get a guy like Nootbar? It would be a significant upgrade at the plate and one would almost lose nothing in the field. He's also kind of a spark plug player.

[USAFChief]

8 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

 

But given that I dislike the Cardinals immensely, I'm fine with them holding on to every aging, declining, expensive veteran they have on the roster.

What the heck is there to dislike about the Cardinals?

Jealousy I understand. They're what the Twins could be. 

But dislike? Why?

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

What the heck is there to dislike about the Cardinals?

Jealousy I understand. They're what the Twins could be. 

But dislike? Why?

Because their fans are self-congratulatory and their organization is so bloody arrogant. Just look at how they treated Willson Contreras early this season when the wheels came off because they didn’t bother to acquire any quality pitchers. 

[USAFChief]

Just now, Brock Beauchamp said:

Because their fans are self-congratulatory and their organization is so bloody arrogant. Just look at how they treated Willson Contreras early this season when the wheels came off because they didn’t bother to acquire any quality pitchers. 

Huh. I don't see it, but ok.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Huh. I don't see it, but ok.

Well, then there was that time their front office hacked another MLB team’s front office and stole data. A bunch of times. 

[NotAboutWinning]

11 hours ago, Aerodeliria said:

Because of the mess in CF, why don't we shoot a little lower and try to get a guy like Nootbar? It would be a significant upgrade at the plate and one would almost lose nothing in the field. He's also kind of a spark plug player.

And his name is fun to say 😁

[dxpavelka]

11 hours ago, Aerodeliria said:

Because of the mess in CF, why don't we shoot a little lower and try to get a guy like Nootbar? It would be a significant upgrade at the plate and one would almost lose nothing in the field. He's also kind of a spark plug player.

Nick Senzel can play a solid CF and the corners in both the IF and OF, hits the snot out of left handed pitching AND might be expendable in Cincy in large part to a couple Twins farm hands emerging.....

[TopGunn#22]

Brock, have you ever been to a game in St. Louis?  Seriously, I've been there multiple times.  Their fans are the BEST.  Knowledgeable, friendly.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with their fan base. They're certainly NOT Philadelphia-esque.

[Hashim]

22 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

A year ago at the trade deadline, Jose Miranda was OPSing at .800 and it would have sounded foolish to suggest trading him, a young player on the rise. A year later, things look different. 

With that said, would Bailey Ober be a good trade piece to give up? I don’t know. The Cardinals would be interested, I would think.

It would be nice to see Gray, Lopez and Ryan all keep pitching at high levels in order to give up a rotation piece like Ober for a bat like Goldschmidt or Arenado. 

We can’t trade our only great young pitcher. We still need maximize our strength, which is our pitching. Gray & Maeda will both be gone next year, then our starting pitching will be suspect again. I don’t want Randy Dobnek back in our MLB rotation. All of our young pitchers have been suspect this. SWR has been atrocious this year, Varland has been up & down, and Henriquez and the other guys ceiling don’t look that great. Raya & Festa are 2 years away. 

[laloesch]

51 minutes ago, Hashim said:

We can’t trade our only great young pitcher. We still need maximize our strength, which is our pitching. Gray & Maeda will both be gone next year, then our starting pitching will be suspect again. I don’t want Randy Dobnek back in our MLB rotation. All of our young pitchers have been suspect this. SWR has been atrocious this year, Varland has been up & down, and Henriquez and the other guys ceiling don’t look that great. Raya & Festa are 2 years away. 

I have to agree.  Maeda and Gray will both be gone so you are back to Ryan, Ober, Lopez, Varland?, Paddack (maybe)?

I've looked at SWR's minor league stats and am not impressed at all.  The are HORRIBLE.  Not sure why everyone keeps hyping this guy, it's numbers flat out are not good.  This is why i've been saying that the Twins need to trade Gray while they still can and get back multiple prospects.  Someone will trade for him given the year he's having regardless of the fact that he's a free agent at season's end.

Trading Ober at this point would be a mistake because of the team control he's under.

[JD-TWINS]

23 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

A year ago at the trade deadline, Jose Miranda was OPSing at .800 and it would have sounded foolish to suggest trading him, a young player on the rise. A year later, things look different. 

With that said, would Bailey Ober be a good trade piece to give up? I don’t know. The Cardinals would be interested, I would think.

It would be nice to see Gray, Lopez and Ryan all keep pitching at high levels in order to give up a rotation piece like Ober for a bat like Goldschmidt or Arenado. 

Ober is our 2nd best asset on the staff…….this assumes Lopez gets his act together on Home Runs allowed.

Ober showed last night that he has the character to have a bad inning (terrible inning) and come out if it composed. Retired 15 of last 18 batters faced!

He did this immediately following all 3 of the guys mentioned failing to do this in the same week.

Cannot trade Ober!!!! A mix of Ryan & Gray’s temperament and 3 pitches he can control in and around the zone. 6’9” - so a bit of a unicorn for the opposing hitters as well - a bonus. Team control for 5 more years.

[JD-TWINS]

3 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

Nick Senzel can play a solid CF and the corners in both the IF and OF, hits the snot out of left handed pitching AND might be expendable in Cincy in large part to a couple Twins farm hands emerging.....

I live in Cincy - Twins guy obviously - IMO Fairchild (.743 OPS & fast) is better athlete & better upside for CF. He’s in AAA because they don’t have room for him. I suggested him & Grichuk from Rockies a couple places here………gotta say Castro is winning me over for that spot, ongoing!

[dxpavelka]

13 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

I live in Cincy - Twins guy obviously - IMO Fairchild (.743 OPS & fast) is better athlete & better upside for CF. He’s in AAA because they don’t have room for him. I suggested him & Grichuk from Rockies a couple places here………gotta say Castro is winning me over for that spot, ongoing!

Fairchild is interesting.  .885 OPS vs. Lefties in the minors but Senzel is nearly 1.000 in the big leagues and has brings 1200 big league plate appearances to the table.  Fairchild not so many.

 

[USAFChief]

9 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

Fairchild is interesting.  .885 OPS vs. Lefties in the minors but Senzel is nearly 1.000 in the big leagues and has brings 1200 big league plate appearances to the table.  Fairchild not so many.

 

??

Senzel, career, vs LH pitching:

325 PA .276/.329/.425  

 

I guess you meant 69 PAs in 2023.

 

Senzel doesn't really hit RHers OR LHers.

 

[Steve Lein]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:38 AM, JD-TWINS said:

I would offer the SS we got from Miami & SWR & Winder & Moran.

Yeah, it's probably Ober or Raya as the starting point or the Cardinals don't even want to talk to Falvey. Can guarantee BTV will show as a massive overpay for anyone that were to get Goldy (like 50+ for the 16 they rate Goldy, would be my guess).

Also highly doubt he'd waive his no-trade, certainly not for the Twins. 

He would be the perfect player for them to get, I just don't see how it works from either side.

 

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, Steve Lein said:

Can guarantee BTV will show as a massive overpay for anyone that were to get Goldy (like 50+ for the 16 they rate Goldy, would be my guess).

The fun of BTV is it tries to think like a GM, taking into account remaining contract cost as well as talent.  For a variety of reasons it can be way off.  But it's an interesting way to start the thought process.  BTV would suggest we could snag Goldschmidt for a motley collection headlined by Blaine Enlow and Junior Severino and Yasser Mercedes.

What BTV doesn't/can't take into account, with top-end talent, is the "we've got him and you don't" factor.  Yeah, Goldie is in his decline phase and has a considerable salary attached to him.  So what?  "You want him, or not?" say the Cardinals.  "No skin off our nose.  We still like him., and we're not writing off 2024  The Yankees have been asking about him, though."

[dxpavelka]

12 hours ago, USAFChief said:

??

Senzel, career, vs LH pitching:

325 PA .276/.329/.425  

 

I guess you meant 69 PAs in 2023.

 

Senzel doesn't really hit RHers OR LHers.

 

Better than anything we've got against lefties.