Twins CF 2024 And Forward...

[DocBauer]

Let's be clear here, this MIGHT seem untimely. We haven't yet reached the break in 2023. And despite opinons the Twins have been misleading about the condition of Buxton's general health, there has never been any hidden agenda. EARLY reports were that he would DH with the idea of playing CF after a time. But there has never been any stated time line that speculated or guaranteed anything. Rocco finally got tired of all the speculation and stepped out of any comfort zone to just flatly state once and for all what seemed obvious: Buxton just isn't healthy enough to play CF at this time. I applaud him for stepping forward. I'm guessing he was just tired of making simple statements and decided to try to be more direct.

So is this post untimely? Actually,  NO, it's VERY timely. A couple of caveats:

1] NO-ONE has stated Buxton is permanently removed from any CF consideration. There is at least a chance that DH this season, and an offseason, will make his knees better enough to  be at least a part time CF option. But I think we have to at least consider the option that his days in CF may be, tragically, over

2] This is not some debate about trading away a player with a no-trade clause who's value is tied only to being a CF. There are so many moving parts about Buck being healthy, generally healthy, and adapting to DH with still amazing bat potential that dismissing him as a still potential difference maker is absurd! While Buxton not being in CF is a tragedy, the Twins need to adjust. Do I need to remind that the Twins have had some great DH in their history? IF Buxton is forced to do so at such an early ag7e, do we just lament what could have been? Or do we recognize that if he can make the mental and physical adjustments necessary to be a full time DH, he just might be great?

But where does that leave us in CF short term and long term? There is a real chance the Twins draft either college player Langford or HS player Clark. But that's far reaching. How about the immediate?

No particular order:

1] Taylor is 35yo and a FA. His defense is still outstanding. His speed has made a difference at times, as has his bunt ability. His power has been a gift. But he's been batting below his career numbers. I'd love him back on a cheap deal as a reserve deal for 2024. But who does he back up?

2] Who is a quality FA,,,maybe trade option which I don't like based on cost...who could be a viable option? Do the Twins open their pockets with Kepler and others  maybe gone to sign someone younger and better than Taylor? 

3] Celestino is a forgotten 24yo with real talent. When allowed to play at AAA after his desperate promotion, he's pretty much raked and shown his potential. He's now health and back at St Paul to prove he's a viable MLB CF.

4] DeShawn Kiersy was a 4th round pick in2018. He was a 4th round pick based on potential despite being older due to a serious injury in college. He struggled his first couple of years, but started to flash a little in 2022. This year, he's done more than enough to demand a promotion to St Paul soon. The defense is there, the speed is there, and the bat ability seems to be there. But even half a season at AAA, is he anything more than a late bloomer? 

5] Martin seemed to re-establish himself in the AFL. And then his elbow gave out. He FINALLY got healthy enough to play and then had another injury to slow him. Though as I understand it, his latest injury wasn't related to his elbow. The FO has stated he's almost an immediate OF talent, they just wanted him to play as much INF as he could for versatility.

6] For whatever reason, the FO didn't give Helman a shot late in 2022. But they liked him enough to invite him to ST, where he had an injury and couldn't play. 

It's not that there are ZERO options for 2024. But the question is , other than Lewis just accepting it migh be his best spot, what is the best option in CF short term if not long term.

 

[FlyingFinn]

Lewis is the best option in CF. One option you didn't mention Doc is Stevenson. He is having a fantastic year with the Saints. His first shot at MLB didn't go well but is he ready now, or is he really a AAAA player? Celestino and Martin will both be on the 40 man roster in 2024 so there will be pressure to perform to stay there, especially for Celestino. Keirsey will pass through the Rule 5 draft as he is older. Same for Helmin. Other than Celestino, all of these guys are great base stealers with Stevenson and Keirsey already with 26 and 24 steals this year, respectively.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

I'd like to see Taylor re-signed for 1 year with a team option for 2025. It gives you time to evaluate if Lewis is a long-term option at CF, or if someone like Celestino or Martin will emerge. Not really sure what to think about Buxton. Would moving him to RF keep him healthier? Regardless, I don't see him being an everyday CF going forward.

[Nashvilletwin]

Gordon is also an option to eat a lot of CF innings in ‘24. Don’t forget about him.

Ideally, we have enough young talent (Gordon, Celestino, Martin and others mentioned) and limited roster spots that 35 year old Taylor is not needed.

Is Rodriguez a CFer? If so, he’s not likely a break camp ‘24 candidate, but could see innings later in the year.

[chpettit19]

I don't have a real strong answer to this outside of Lewis, who I think is the obvious choice. I do feel, relatively strongly, that they should figure some of this out if this season continues on it's current path for the big club. They have so many questions moving forward, starting with CF, that I'd think it'd be prudent to gather some more data this season if the team doesn't make a significant improvement.

The FO bet on Miranda, and got bit early. They hedged their bets on Kirilloff and Lewis, but are starting to let them take over some. They didn't make any bet on Julien, but will have a bet to make soon(ish) when Polanco returns. It appears to be a natural changing of the guard time, and it'll be interesting to see how they handle it. I just hope they really work to get some answers if things continue on the downward trend they've been on since May started. The "young guys" aren't so young anymore (in the sports world), and you can't keep slow playing their MLB time in deference to mediocre, MLB rentals.

Kiersy is interesting to me, and I've been trying to pay more attention to him lately. I'd get him to AAA ASAP, and see how that transition goes. Even if he's not a true answer in CF, he has a lot of nice qualities as a 4th OFer, bench guy. Not really interested in any trades at this point. Always depends on who the target is, and the asset cost, but I don't think this team is at a place where they should be making big trades. And not really a fan of any of the FAs outside of maybe Bader, but he's no picture of health so I'm not sure I'd want to go down that path anyways.

[mnfireman]

The best CF option 2024 and forward is Buxton. If he can't do it, this team is in trouble because it does not need 1 player filling the DH role full-time (this rings true for this year also, but I digress). There is enough talent coming through the system (if they reach their potential) that clogging the DH with 1 player means someone is playing out of position, sitting on the bench or stuck in AAA.

[FlyingFinn]

1 hour ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Gordon is also an option to eat a lot of CF innings in ‘24. Don’t forget about him.

Ideally, we have enough young talent (Gordon, Celestino, Martin and others mentioned) and limited roster spots that 35 year old Taylor is not needed.

Is Rodriguez a CFer? If so, he’s not likely a break camp ‘24 candidate, but could see innings later in the year.

Gordon vs. Taylor - Taylor is better at bunting, stealing bases, defense (by far). Gordon may be better at hitting, if 2022 wasn't a one year aberration. If Buxton can't play CF, I would rather have Taylor than Gordon.

[Mike Sixel]

Lewis, Lewis, Lewis. 

After that? Celestino will hopefully play well this year in St. Paul. I'd also promote kiersey to AAA to see what he's got, but until they finally move on from Kepler and Gallo, there is no room for him. 

My next choice is Martin, who should have been an outfielder the last two years, but for some weird reason wasn't. 

No way I trade for one or sign one. Give the youth you've acquired a chance. If the FO doesnt believe in any of them, they don't believe in themselves....

[Major League Ready]

MAT turned 32 in April.  I don't think it matters if he is 32 or 35 because there are better options beyond this year.  I have been on the Lewis bus for a while now.  Martin sounds good in theory but I have not seen him in CF.  Does he really have what it takes to play CF?  I am skeptical.  Keirsey can play center but he is going to need to maintain this level of offense at AAA for me to believe he has "broke out".  26 at AA without any past offensive success makes it hard to trust this is sustainable but it would be a nice find.

If only they had drafted Corbin Carroll instead of Cavaco.   Talk about the perfect player for our team.

[Parfigliano]

I can easily see Buxton never fielding a position again.  His knee issues are reminding me of Oliva except Oliva had a far superior bat.

[Vanimal46]

Concur with several people here. Lewis is the clear choice to take over CF if Buxton is unable to play in the field moving forward. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

With Lewis in the discussion, the status of Buxton and Correa both seem relevant.

Is Buxton still a CF?

Is Correa still the SS we thought we were getting? Is he significantly better than Lewis? The clock is ticking on his move to 3B, and his OOA last year and this year points to a sooner than later move.

as with other posters, I’d like to see what they have in Celestino/Martin or if Correa is still the SS, Lewis and use the off-season to address if they don’t see enough from the internal options

[Richie the Rally Goat]

5 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Concur with several people here. Lewis is the clear choice to take over CF if Buxton is unable to play in the field moving forward. 

Lewis is 100% in my wishlist to start for the Twins in ‘24. If Correa isn’t the SS anymore, I’d rather see Lewis at short than center. If CC is still the SS, then CF it is :)

[Craig Arko]

Any chance Lee can play CF? I don’t know what (if any) outfield experience he has.

[Mike Sixel]

18 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Any chance Lee can play CF? I don’t know what (if any) outfield experience he has.

Lee runs at a 40 on the scouting scale, so I'm going "no" on that. 

[KirbyDome89]

It's hard to see Buxton being the answer in CF at any point moving forward. 

Celestino's ceiling is likely as a 4th OFer.

I guess we have to hope Lewis agrees to the move or it's likely groundhog's day in 2024. 

[RpR]

Taylor is a known item; NO, lets go for wishful thinking Lewis or Celestino who has been a bust so far.

I wish I had the crystal ball that some seem to gaze at.

The bunch of rookies that the Twins let go, are with the exception of one, mediocre to just plain not good, too bad the Twins did not keep them.

[mnfireman]

28 minutes ago, RpR said:

Taylor is a known item; NO, lets go for wishful thinking Lewis or Celestino who has been a bust so far.

I wish I had the crystal ball that some seem to gaze at.

The bunch of rookies that the Twins let go, are with the exception of one, mediocre to just plain not good, too bad the Twins did not keep them.

Understand that Taylor is a known product, but he's putting on a pretty good showcase for other teams right now and possibly pricing himself above what the Twins might be will to pay. 

I am not about wishful thinking, but this is not a good situation going forward if all Buxton can do is DH. 6.5 more years of the DH being tied up by one player is not ideal.

IF Rodriguez stays at CF he's at least 2 years away, if not 3. No other MLB ready prospect plays CF except Celestino, which would make signing Taylor a good move, but I covered that already. 

A trade or FA signing as a stop gap is not ideal, but that may be the course of action the team may have to take if Buxton can't play CF.

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, RpR said:

Taylor is a known item; NO, lets go for wishful thinking Lewis or Celestino who has been a bust so far.

I wish I had the crystal ball that some seem to gaze at.

The bunch of rookies that the Twins let go, are with the exception of one, mediocre to just plain not good, too bad the Twins did not keep them.

You can stick with the same guys in the same positions.  I am sure you know what they call it when you do that and expect a different result.  MAT is a mediocre player.  Why not look to get better.  You are so stuck on veteran players you can't see any other possibility.   Take a look around the league.  Tampa Bay, Baltimore, Arizona, Cincinatti, and Miami all doing very well by developing young players.

[notoriousgod71]

Jake cave

[SteveLV]

Twins are going to draft Max Clark at 5 and he should be the CF of the future.  Ok using Taylor for another year or one of the younger players, but they should be place-holders if this young man is a good as he seems to be.

Plus-plus speed, plus-plus arm (he throws 97 from the mound), plus hit and developing power.

Would love to see the Twins develop a super-star caliber CF!

[terrydactyls]

How about an outside the box idea?  Lewis to CF, Kirilloff to RF, and Buxton to 1B.  3B could be covered by Farmer (or Miranda if his hitting ability returns.

[SteveLV]

Buxton to 1B:  I am reminded of that Scott Hatterburg scene from Moneyball.

"It is incredibly difficult". :)

[JD-TWINS]

23 hours ago, FlyingFinn said:

Gordon vs. Taylor - Taylor is better at bunting, stealing bases, defense (by far). Gordon may be better at hitting, if 2022 wasn't a one year aberration. If Buxton can't play CF, I would rather have Taylor than Gordon.

They both are meant to be platoon guys batting v. RH & LH pitching, respectively. That was the plan this year…….Polanco got hurt, Gordon played a bunch at 2B & then he started to heat up - played some CF & got hurt.

Taylor is 32, not 35, and a worthwhile 1-2 year extension as our Platoon CF v. LH pitching AND back up on bench for injury - pinch running - pinch hitting - late inning Defense - etc.

I think Gordon deserves a chance v. RH pitching & am hoping we see him back by August.

[Linus]

16 hours ago, notoriousgod71 said:

Jake cave

Not funny. 

[Squirrel]

3 hours ago, Linus said:

Not funny. 

Yeah ... eye roll for me in attempt at  humor

[RpR]

On 6/23/2023 at 3:19 PM, Major League Ready said:

 Why not look to get better.

Unless it is already proven new will be better, that is simply wishful thinking.

Twins wishful thinking after 2019 has been not good on average.

Now tell me who will absolutely be better than Taylor?

[Richard]

Eventually Royce Lewis will settle in at CF.  It is the best spot for him to just react and run.  He played it well last year and would have continued to improve.  Rocco said that Lewis probably won't play there this year but begin to during the winter.

[RpR]

8 minutes ago, Richard said:

Eventually Royce Lewis will settle in at CF.  It is the best spot for him to just react and run.  He played it well last year and would have continued to improve.  Rocco said that Lewis probably won't play there this year but begin to during the winter.

In 11 seasons Buxton had, at all levels 26 errors; Lewis in 5 seasons, at all levels  had 55 errors,

Well that is an improvement over Gordon who in 9 seasons, at all levels had 96 errors.

 

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, RpR said:

Unless it is already proven new will be better, that is simply wishful thinking.

Twins wishful thinking after 2019 has been not good on average.

Now tell me who will absolutely be better than Taylor?

Lewis.  Maybe not so much Day 1 but long term I would expect Lewis to be much better than MAT.