Yankees 12, Twins 6: Minnesota Denied Sweep After Maeda Rough Start

[VivaBomboRivera!]

Wow, sensing a lot of misplaced anger in the room after a home series and a season series win.  Not to mention that we have a better record than all but four teams in the League and are leading our Division. Can we be a little less harsh, at least until we're out of April?

[Jocko87]

5 hours ago, Danchat said:

Turns out they skipped Maeda's previous turn in the rotation for a good reason...

Color me surprised on Gallo so far, let's hope he can maintain this level of slugging later in the year. 

He was signed to play outfield initially, and he derives quite a bit of his value from playing well in the corners, so I expect him to be out there once Kirilloff is back, it just remains to be see if Kirilloff can hold down the 1B job.

I'd almost put Gallo at first when they both play.  Gallo can be a full plus over there, not too sure about AK.  AK is taking reps in the OF at AAA.  Better glove at first but that takes the great arm out of the OF.  Good problems.

I'd also be playing Gallo as the lone LHB against the lefty starter, at least until he cools off.  He's not been helpless against lefties over his career and is seeing the ball well.  It's nice to have him as the pinch hitter available rather than a Kepler but at least you can get Kep or Larnach a good matchup that way. 

[Rik19753]

We all need to calm down about the decision to leave Maeda in the game. Sure, it looks bad when the offense scores 6 runs afterwards and Headrick ends up pitching a great game. But when you go back to the top of the 4th, when the Twins were down 5-1, did anyone have the slightest bit of confidence that the Twins would be able to score 5 runs in 6 innings, with a lineup missing Buxton and Polanco? And that's not to mention that when you are banking on Headrick pitching 3~5 innings, the Yankees are inevitably going to keep adding to their lead. Even if we had made a pitching change, we would have needed 90th percentile performances from both Headrick and the lineup to even have a chance of winning.

 

Also, while the lineup ended up scoring 6 runs, that only happened because the Yankees allowed them to. German started the 7th inning when he had already given up 5 runs, that would never have happened had it been a close game. German would have been pulled after giving up 3, and we would have been facing the best of the Yankees' bullpen. The equation is just so much more difficult than subtracting the 6 runs from the 4th inning to say that it would have been a tie game in the bottom of the 9th.

 

Believe me, I am as disappointed as everyone that we couldn't witness a Twins sweep of the Yankees. It sucks that the series ended like this, giving us a bad taste in the mouth. But we can't blame Rocco for everything that goes wrong. Kenta and the defense let us down. It happens.

[Whitey333]

Yes you can blame Rocco.  His lineup without Buxton and Polanco and the batting order was a clear indication he wasn't interested in a sweep.  He has many of these throw away games each year.  Leaving Maeda in that long was another indication that he didn't care about Maeda, the team or the fans.  Rocco has been and will continue to be the reason the Twins go nowhere.  He is probably the most unpopular twins manager in team history.  His effort to try to not only win the game but to just be content with winning the series and not going for the sweep is inexcusable.  Rocco is inexcusable.

[Major League Ready]

2 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

Yes you can blame Rocco.  His lineup without Buxton and Polanco and the batting order was a clear indication he wasn't interested in a sweep.  He has many of these throw away games each year.  Leaving Maeda in that long was another indication that he didn't care about Maeda, the team or the fans.  Rocco has been and will continue to be the reason the Twins go nowhere.  He is probably the most unpopular twins manager in team history.  His effort to try to not only win the game but to just be content with winning the series and not going for the sweep is inexcusable.  Rocco is inexcusable.

Let's just ignore that lineup scored 6 runs.  Inexcusable is not the word I would use to describe the absurdity of "Rocco did not want to win" but how someone comes to the conclusion his motivation was a desire to loose has many descriptive adjectives.

[Karbo]

IMO Maeda to IL for now, then on a rehab assignment at St. Paul. If he can't build up enough arm strength put him in the pen. As far as Rocco goes this was his 1st bad game of the season. He gave up on the game before it even started. putting in a "B" lineup. Should never rest that many starters at home. Fans pay a lot of $$ to see their team and putting out so many reserves should never happen!

[wabene]

Well I guess we know what the metronomic recurring complaint complex will include this year. Giving up games with the B lineup and leaving pitchers in too long. At least Rocco mixes it up folks, right?

I think Whitey might be at least partially right about Rocco's unpopularity. The most unpopular in Twins history? I don't know but there are some on this forum who have been watching the whole time and may have insight. Ray Miller? Billy Martin? 

I looked at the threads from last night here and a brief look at the comments at the Strib and the anti-Rocco sentiment is strong. Personally I don't get it, I like him. He is a little quirky compared to most in sports management and has a unique way of describing things. I get a kick out of it.

The lineup yesterday was determined by a management team with heavy input from the new training staff. Then it is Rocco's job to answer the mob for these decisions. That's why he gets the big bucks.

It's interesting that every year it's the same people deriding management, reacting strongly to each loss, blaming and predicting poor outcomes and then the same people pushing back and preaching moderation of reactions, looking at the big picture, and patience. It's pretty polarized without much crossover. It appears to also be a microcosm of this nation of ours, lol.

 

[Trov]

For me a few take aways from the game.  First, Maeda may have made his last start for the Twins barring injury to others.  He is expected to go back on IL with elbow issues.  Reports I read say they think more muscle issue than ligament but still not goo d for a guy coming back from TJ surgery.  Even if he is healthy later in season, he has not impressed at all, and feel like he needs to settle into pen and give one of the many young guys that could fill the 5th starter roll.  

Two, Headrick did a good job.  Maybe the Yankees were not trying all that hard but going 5 innings 8k 2 walks and 2 runs allowed is still a good outing.  His reward is to get sent down to call up the next sacrificial arm.  With Maeda going on IL most likely, we will see Ober and guessing Sands come up.  Ober will take starter roll and Sands will get the long relief guy until he has to step in and throw 70 plus pitches in relief then he will get sent down again for SWR or Headrick again.  I know players hate when teams treat pitchers this way, but the CBA allows for as many ups and downs in a season so Twins will continue to rotate a long relief guy in so they do not need to burn their top arms during a blow out loss. 

Third, the offense seems to be heating up overall.  Yes, there is still a long way to go, but we are scoring runs at higher clip even with Buck and Polanco sitting.  We have good depth on this team, and will be getting even better in coming weeks. 

[Blyleven2011]

12 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

I agree - Kepler has been batted 1st and 4th this week - why?   Buxton and Polanco sit against the Yankees - why?  Maeda left in until double figures - why?  Too much confusion and I am sure Rocco does not care.

 

Good question  WHY !!! 

I am not a fan of Rocco  and I truly believe  he is not a manager that can  win in the playoffs  or world series  ( regular season  , YES , shorter series against  better teams with better pitching  , NO   ) ...

[Dave Borton]

40 minutes ago, wabene said:

(Balldeilli) is a little quirky compared to most in sports management and has a unique way of describing things.

Quirky? Bumfluff pulls the lineup out of the ballboy's cap and uses more cliches than I have arthritic pains.

[Woof Bronzer]

I'm keeping track of the give-up games this year.  By my count this is the 3rd one so far and they lost all 3.  These give up games are going to haunt the Twins later in the year, just like they did last year.  Not to mention the lost opportunity for the confidence boost and "exercise the demons" by sweeping the dreaded Yanks.  

[Aerodeliria]

I think we have short memories if we say that Maeda has been trash since returning. He struck out nine in 5 & 1/3 against the Marlins in his first outing. Unfortunately, the Twins couldn't muster a run in that game. I think it's much more plausible that he is actually injured and at the very least be put on the 10/15-day IR or even the 60 if it's the elbow problem.

[Minny505]

14 hours ago, SwainZag said:

In the last 7 games before today Kepler was slashing: .350/.391/.500.  It's a small sample size, but he has been one of the better hitters as of late.  

I agree on Kepler being hot and I like a manager who constantly shuffles the lineup to get the hot bats at the top (Cash of the Rays has done this for years), but Gallo is the hottest of them all and can't get above 5th in the lineup.

Kepler, who with a roughly league average OPS is in midseason form, has become Rocco's Little Nicky Punto. He's a solid player who is put in a position to do more than he is actually capable of and it leaves him exposed while making the team worse. 

Outside of '19 & '20, he makes a perfect 4th OF. I've always thought of him as the Twins' version of Brett Gardner: a solid OFer you can feel comfortable giving 400or so PAs to as the 4th option, but generally sits when everyone is healthy and rested.

[Shaitan]

18 hours ago, Shaitan said:

Even Joe Nathan lost the closer's role after TJ. 

Recovery takes time. And it's about more than joints and muscles and conditioning.

That said, Maeda has left every game with the trainer, to paraphrase the radio team. That's a problem. I think it's logical to IL him, then let him rebuild with shorter appearances. They have the depth now. Use it.

And in 12 months we'll be having this same discussion about Paddack.

It seems to come with this surgery.

But most players do eventually come back to their previous levels, unless they're a Liriano-type where it was (likely) his delivery that caused both his success and initial injury.

[Shaitan]

6 hours ago, wabene said:

Well I guess we know what the metronomic recurring complaint complex will include this year. Giving up games with the B lineup and leaving pitchers in too long. At least Rocco mixes it up folks, right?

I think Whitey might be at least partially right about Rocco's unpopularity. The most unpopular in Twins history? I don't know but there are some on this forum who have been watching the whole time and may have insight. Ray Miller? Billy Martin? 

I looked at the threads from last night here and a brief look at the comments at the Strib and the anti-Rocco sentiment is strong. Personally I don't get it, I like him. He is a little quirky compared to most in sports management and has a unique way of describing things. I get a kick out of it.

The lineup yesterday was determined by a management team with heavy input from the new training staff. Then it is Rocco's job to answer the mob for these decisions. That's why he gets the big bucks.

It's interesting that every year it's the same people deriding management, reacting strongly to each loss, blaming and predicting poor outcomes and then the same people pushing back and preaching moderation of reactions, looking at the big picture, and patience. It's pretty polarized without much crossover. It appears to also be a microcosm of this nation of ours, lol.

 

I wouldn't place much weight to the court of comments sections and message boards. That's a (loud) fraction of the general population. Andrew Yang was a population presidential candidate, according to Twitter, after all.

Because, as you nailed it:

Quote

It appears to also be a microcosm of this nation of ours, lol.

 

[Boswell]

On 4/26/2023 at 8:43 PM, RickOShea said:

We all have a decent idea of what the fans think of Baldelli.  Will the FO ever follow suit?  Today's finale with the Yankees really exposed where Baldelli is coming from.  The lineup was another hodge podge, his pitching decisions were questionable, and the worst is that he pretty much threw in the towel, with half a game to be played.  What is going through his mind?  It's one thing to have ateam that has needs, but to compound things with a manager like Baldelli, is not acceptable.  Twins fans have gone through many years of suffering, frustration and mediocrity. We need a manager who can shake things up and make things happen,  Obviously, this type of team is not Baldelli's forte.  So we go through the motions again and again, with the same results.  1987 and 1991  should not be the only exceptions to years of mediocrity.

.

Spot on. 
 

Sure, when I looked at the April schedule and saw 7 games against NYY, I thought I’d be happy with a 4-3 outcome. 
 

Yet when Domingo German was allowed to continue his “performance of a lifetime” after the Twins had taken the first two games in the Bronx (and our manager was ejected), the Twins needed to add extra emphasis to this series. 
 

Save the second teamers for KC.  Bring the heat and the pain each and every day to the Yankees.  The series was not ordinary April baseball… set aside the “it’s a marathon, not a sprint BS” for later and take care of business in your own stadium. 
 

The Yankees have humiliated the Twins for so, so many years.  When you have a chance to go for the sweep, you lay it out for the day game too.  
 

Rocco did not have the character or cojones to take down the Bombers.  Sad. 

[Melissa]

Chiming in late, but it’s been a busy week.

I think the loss of Farmer to that wild and wicked pitch by Giolito has hurt the team more than could have been expected.

We were at the game on Wednesday, and my explanation to my guest of why there were a few regulars taking the game off (Buxton, Polanco, and Taylor) and the replacements mostly our third or worse options at the position (Solano at second, Castro at third, Gordon in Center) was that it resulted from the loss of Farmer.

As far as giving players days off, it’s not that Rocco chose to lose - what an odd idea! Instead it was a noon start after a cold couple of night games. The Twins organization followed its chosen pattern - not some bonehead loser manager. Buxton got his weekly day off. Polanco is being treated carefully on his return. And Taylor reported feeling weak.

Maeda gave up a lot of balls in play, but as others have mentioned, the defense was shoddy. The absence of Taylor put Gordon in center. That meant that second base needed someone else to fill in - and with Farmer out and Castro at third so Miranda could DH for the day (and he hit his first HR) - the very shaky Solano was apparently the only choice.

Was going to be tough to win this one, that’s true. Still, it was so fun to see Gallo hit that monster HR. The speed and authority and sound and no-doubt quality of Joey’s home runs remind me of Jim Thome.

[wabene]

On 4/27/2023 at 8:33 AM, davidborton said:

Quirky? Bumfluff pulls the lineup out of the ballboy's cap and uses more cliches than I have arthritic pains.

Bumfluff.....