What should be done with Lewis when Correa returns?

[chpettit19]

13 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

IF Correa stays with us (and I know that’s a big if) I would want to move Lewis to 3rd. So, if/when he goes back to AAA, I’d like to see him get some reps at 3rd

I'd move him to the OF, but wouldn't be upset with him at 3B either. I hope they don't send him back to AAA. He looks plenty ready for the bigs to me. I don't know what else he'd have to work on in AAA. Unless he goes on a Larnach-esque cold streak I let him adjust to the pitching he sees up here. Playing 4 or 5 games a week in Minneapolis while batting at the bottom of the order and playing a number of positions seems like a reasonable situation for him for the rest of this season. 

[cheeseheadgophfan]

50 minutes ago, Tim said:

if he can play short, he can absolutely handle 3rd. Typically comes down to arm strength, range isnt a concern,

Range isn't the issue.....the reaction time and footwork at 3B is totally different.  Machado made the move look easy, but he may be an outlier.

[Squirrel]

26 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I'd move him to the OF, but wouldn't be upset with him at 3B either. I hope they don't send him back to AAA. He looks plenty ready for the bigs to me. I don't know what else he'd have to work on in AAA. Unless he goes on a Larnach-esque cold streak I let him adjust to the pitching he sees up here. Playing 4 or 5 games a week in Minneapolis while batting at the bottom of the order and playing a number of positions seems like a reasonable situation for him for the rest of this season. 

This season, yes, let him play all over, as long as there is playing time available, and that really could be the bigger issue once everyone gets healthy. If Lewis can't get regular playing time then he goes back, or someone else does. But next season, as I said, big IF for Correa to still be with the Twins, I want to see if Lewis can hold 3rd base. And I'd like to test that out this season. Miranda would move to 1st. That just seems like a great infield ... Miranda, Polanco, Correa, Lewis. Again ... big ifs ... and these grand wishes of mine rarely come to fruition. Lewis is a far better defender than Miranda so it would make sense to play them in those positions. And if Larnach's progress in the outfield is for real, you've got Larnach and Celestino out there as well as others coming up. (Yes, I know Kirilloff ... I'm not convinced his wrist issues will ever be over and he looks not ready.)

[chpettit19]

11 minutes ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

Range isn't the issue.....the reaction time and footwork at 3B is totally different.  Machado made the move look easy, but he may be an outlier.

ARod, Ripken, Chipper, Michael Young, Javy Baez, and Ha-Seong Kim are all SSs who either permanently moved to 3B eventually or spent significant time there at some point. And that's just off the top of my head. There's at least 100 guys in the minors right now who started as SSs and have moved to 3B. It's pretty well accepted now that if you can field at SS you can, and probably will, transition to 3B (or 2B depending on arm strength) at some point. I think pretty much everyone expects Corey Seager to end his career at 3B.

[chpettit19]

5 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

This season, yes, let him play all over, as long as there is playing time available, and that really could be the bigger issue once everyone gets healthy. If Lewis can't get regular playing time then he goes back, or someone else does. But next season, as I said, big IF for Correa to still be with the Twins, I want to see if Lewis can hold 3rd base. And I'd like to test that out this season. Miranda would move to 1st. That just seems like a great infield ... Miranda, Polanco, Correa, Lewis. Again ... big ifs ... and these grand wishes of mine rarely come to fruition. Lewis is a far better defender than Miranda so it would make sense to play them in those positions. And if Larnach's progress in the outfield is for real, you've got Larnach and Celestino out there as well as others coming up. (Yes, I know Kirilloff ... I'm not convinced his wrist issues will ever be over and he looks not ready.)

Oh yeah, I'm saying for next year if that big if happens I'd put Lewis in the OF. Miranda at 3B and Kirilloff at 1B (like you said, big ifs all over as far as these guys actually sticking in the majors) with Lewis in the OF is how I'd do things. Assuming all the ifs turn out in the Twins favor (will never happen) an OF of Martin-Buxton-Lewis and infield of Miranda-Correa-Polanco-Kirilloff with Larnach at DH most of the time is my grand wish, which will very likely not happen. I just prefer to put speed in the OF if I can. The most likely outcome is Lewis at SS with Correa swimming in someone else's cash next year, but if he stays I'd love Buxton and Lewis in the OF running everything down. Take away as many extra base hits as possible. But certainly wouldn't be mad with your setup either.

[Squirrel]

27 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Oh yeah, I'm saying for next year if that big if happens I'd put Lewis in the OF. Miranda at 3B and Kirilloff at 1B (like you said, big ifs all over as far as these guys actually sticking in the majors) with Lewis in the OF is how I'd do things. Assuming all the ifs turn out in the Twins favor (will never happen) an OF of Martin-Buxton-Lewis and infield of Miranda-Correa-Polanco-Kirilloff with Larnach at DH most of the time is my grand wish, which will very likely not happen. I just prefer to put speed in the OF if I can. The most likely outcome is Lewis at SS with Correa swimming in someone else's cash next year, but if he stays I'd love Buxton and Lewis in the OF running everything down. Take away as many extra base hits as possible. But certainly wouldn't be mad with your setup either.

Okay, this is a question, and I don’t think there is a right answer … infield defense vs outfield defense. Is it more difficult to develop really good infielders than outfielders? Are really good infield defenders more at a premium or are outfield defenders? I just really think it’s a better team with Miranda, Polanco, Correa and Lewis (Miranda at 1st, Lewis at 3rd), than wasting Lewis in the outfield. Miranda’s defensive skills aren’t as good as Lewis’ and I think that makes for one heckuva infield. I think we have many more players in our system who would be good OFers. But then, I really like a good defense and think it’s as important to the game as offense.

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Okay, this is a question, and I don’t think there is a right answer … infield defense vs outfield defense. Is it more difficult to develop really good infielders than outfielders? Are really good infield defenders more at a premium or are outfield defenders? I just really think it’s a better team with Miranda, Polanco, Correa and Lewis (Miranda at 1st, Lewis at 3rd), than wasting Lewis in the outfield. Miranda’s defensive skills aren’t as good as Lewis’ and I think that makes for one heckuva infield. I think we have many more players in our system who would be good OFers. But then, I really like a good defense and think it’s as important to the game as offense.

It's a very interesting question. If I can only have 1 unit be above average I'd go OF. I agree defense is just as important as offense. To me, though, taking away extra base hits is the most important thing and I just think you can do that more with great speed in the OF. What makes Buxton so incredibly valuable defensively is when he's covering an extra 10 feet in the gap and taking away a double. And, to me, if you're so good in the OF that you're taking away extra base hits on liners you're likely taking away some singles as well. Like with Buxton coming in and taking away some of those short popups. In the IF I certainly appreciate the diving plays, but most of those are taking away singles unless the ball is going down the line. Ideally you have stud defenders everywhere, but if I could only pick the IF or OF I'll take the OF.

As for the difficulty in developing infielders vs outfielders I think it's a little different. I think infield takes more development while outfield takes more just natural gifts. You can improve your jumps off the bat, but you can't train yourself to have Buxton or Lewis speed. I'd say it's harder to teach a kid to have Ozzie Smith hands, but you see a lot of guys who were very poor infielders improve their glove work there. The Twins have had a few 3B in their not to distant past that went from butchers to above average. But you couldn't teach those same guys to run 29+ ft/sec.

Now if the league continues to deaden the ball and players get away from the slugging over average approach maybe I feel differently. But in a time when the goal for most hitters is extra bases that's what I want to take away. Celestino/Martin in LF, Buxton in CF, and Lewis in RF (with Kepler as part of the mix for next year) for the next 5 or 6 years sounds like it's taking away a whole lot of doubles and is catching just about every fly ball hit out there. 

So in summary I'll take the chance of Miranda being able to improve his defense at 3B to be average to above average over the chances anybody currently in the system and close to MLB ready being able to cover as much ground in the OF as Lewis.

[Squirrel]

40 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

It's a very interesting question. If I can only have 1 unit be above average I'd go OF. I agree defense is just as important as offense. To me, though, taking away extra base hits is the most important thing and I just think you can do that more with great speed in the OF. What makes Buxton so incredibly valuable defensively is when he's covering an extra 10 feet in the gap and taking away a double. And, to me, if you're so good in the OF that you're taking away extra base hits on liners you're likely taking away some singles as well. Like with Buxton coming in and taking away some of those short popups. In the IF I certainly appreciate the diving plays, but most of those are taking away singles unless the ball is going down the line. Ideally you have stud defenders everywhere, but if I could only pick the IF or OF I'll take the OF.

As for the difficulty in developing infielders vs outfielders I think it's a little different. I think infield takes more development while outfield takes more just natural gifts. You can improve your jumps off the bat, but you can't train yourself to have Buxton or Lewis speed. I'd say it's harder to teach a kid to have Ozzie Smith hands, but you see a lot of guys who were very poor infielders improve their glove work there. The Twins have had a few 3B in their not to distant past that went from butchers to above average. But you couldn't teach those same guys to run 29+ ft/sec.

Now if the league continues to deaden the ball and players get away from the slugging over average approach maybe I feel differently. But in a time when the goal for most hitters is extra bases that's what I want to take away. Celestino/Martin in LF, Buxton in CF, and Lewis in RF (with Kepler as part of the mix for next year) for the next 5 or 6 years sounds like it's taking away a whole lot of doubles and is catching just about every fly ball hit out there. 

So in summary I'll take the chance of Miranda being able to improve his defense at 3B to be average to above average over the chances anybody currently in the system and close to MLB ready being able to cover as much ground in the OF as Lewis.

Kepler is still pretty darn fast. Why not OF with Celestino, Martin, Buxton and Kepler? I think that is still an A+ outfield. Pair that with an A+ infield of my desire and that’s a team.

Kirillofff is still such an if to me that I want someone more reliable at first. That would be Miranda for me. I think he is the most logical cover so why not just make him that when I think he ends up there most of the time anyway

[yeahyabetcha]

If the Twins are contenders this year and they are currently in first place.  I think a strong argument could be made for a starting infield of Krilliloff, Polanco, Correa, Urshela and use Arraez, Miranda and Gordon as the reserves.  Lewis would be in St Paul.

[chpettit19]

40 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Kepler is still pretty darn fast. Why not OF with Celestino, Martin, Buxton and Kepler? I think that is still an A+ outfield. Pair that with an A+ infield of my desire and that’s a team.

Kirillofff is still such an if to me that I want someone more reliable at first. That would be Miranda for me. I think he is the most logical cover so why not just make him that when I think he ends up there most of the time anyway

I don't expect Kepler here beyond next year. In our fantasy world with Correa here on an extension I was looking beyond just this year and next. For this year and much of next I'd have Lewis, Buxton, Kepler, Celestino as my top 4 OF. Although, Lewis would likely be a bit of a utility guy and pop into the infield a bit as well.

Agreed on Kirilloff as a big if. To me that's simply a health thing. But if he's healthy and can put this wrist thing behind him he's my everyday 1B. But the reality is the Twins are unlikely to make any of Lewis, Kirilloff, Miranda, or Martin everyday anythings. Other than Lewis being the everyday SS if/when Correa leaves. Kirilloff will bounce between 1B and COF. Miranda between 1B, 2B, and 3B (mostly 1 and 3). Martin all over. Not how I'd do things as I prefer giving guys 1 spot and letting them perfect it as much as possible with a couple of Gordon types bouncing around, but the Twins clearly disagree with me there.

[Mike Sixel]

I said send to St. Paul. Then I gave it more thought.....

Send Miranda down. Move Gio to first, and put Lewis at 3B most days. Give CC a day a week at DH and put Lewis at SS that day. 

Also, AK needs to be in ST Paul to get his groove back (or not). 

I'd also consider Larnach for DH/1B once a week with Lewis in LF. 

I guess I'm saying, keep Lewis up and see what he's got. Mostly at 3B and subbing in at SS. If I had any idea if playing LF or 3B would help Lewis play SS better next year (just in case....), I'd put him at that spot this year.

[Trov]

5 hours ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

Has Royce ever played 3B?  Too lazy to check.  I know that he played some outfield, but the switch from SS to 3B is not an easy one......

Many SS make the shift to 3rd if they have the arm, Lewis sure does, but lacks the range for SS.  It is a much easier shift than from SS to 2nd in my opinion.  Maybe not as much with all the shifting right now. 

[TheLeviathan]

18 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I said send to St. Paul. Then I gave it more thought.....

Send Miranda down. Move Gio to first, and put Lewis at 3B most days. Give CC a day a week at DH and put Lewis at SS that day. 

Also, AK needs to be in ST Paul to get his groove back (or not). 

I'd also consider Larnach for DH/1B once a week with Lewis in LF. 

I guess I'm saying, keep Lewis up and see what he's got. Mostly at 3B and subbing in at SS. If I had any idea if playing LF or 3B would help Lewis play SS better next year (just in case....), I'd put him at that spot this year.

I may not agree with all the particulars of this, but it shares my sentiment: he deserves to be up and playing every day.

I would have Arraez/Urshela splitting 1B, MIF stays put, OF stays put (Kep/Larnach/Buck), catcher stays put, and DH continues to be used as a way of keeping people in the lineup but giving them a rest.

That leaves 3B and he should play there if he feels comfortable there.

[tony&rodney]

Lewis is still evolving but anyone can see that he feels pretty comfortable right now at the plate. He is athletic enough to cover either 3B or LF when Correa returns. His defense at shortstop has been decent but Correa is on another level. Additionally, Lewis will learn more playing in MLB than he would in milb; he is ready.

Miranda looks pretty good too but he lacks foot speed to beat out grounders in the hole, beat the relays to first base on double play ground balls, or score easily on base hits from second base. Miranda, like Larnach and Kirilloff will need to show power and average to become regulars without questions.

[nicksaviking]

However it plays out, the positional flexibility of this club is fantastic. Should be numerous options to keep the hottest bats in the lineup.

[Riverbrian]

On 5/12/2022 at 7:40 PM, tarheeltwinsfan said:

My question is can Ursella play 1B?

I've never seen Urshela play 1B and the answer to your question is Yes. 

[Riverbrian]

On 5/12/2022 at 8:43 PM, Linus said:

He is showing promise at short but is hardly exceptional. He needs the work. 

Yet he has made a couple of exceptional plays while not booting anything routine. ?

[USAFChief]

I'd look for ways to get Urshela OUT of the lineup rather than shoehorning him in across the diamond, but that's just me.

As for Lewis, he has done well. Hope it continues, but he looks awkward at SS and I don't think he'll hold up there long term. If he continues to hit, let him play 3rd base when Correa returnes.

[Nine of twelve]

It certainly is understandable to want Lewis to be on the major league roster this season, but the most important thing (by far, IMHO) is his continuing development. That means he should be playing shortstop every day because that's what he will be doing for the next ten years, maybe longer, hopefully for the Twins the entire time. Most teams would probably have him playing shortstop in the majors right now, but as long as one of the best shortstops in the world is on the active roster that won't happen.

If the FO determines that Lewis is ready to be a full-time major league shortstop now then perhaps a trade involving Correa should be explored so we can get good value in return before he presumably opts out after this season. Correa's contract for this year includes a limited no-trade clause. I don't know the exact terms of that but that changes to a full no-trade clause next year. Trading Correa this year therefore protects the team in the unlikely event Correa does not opt out, for example due to serious injury or significant underperformance on the field.

[Nine of twelve]

16 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

As for Lewis, he has done well. Hope it continues, but he looks awkward at SS and I don't think he'll hold up there long term.

So if Lewis is not the shortstop of the future which player should be playing shortstop for the Twins in 2023?

IMHO any awkwardness is likely due to him not playing for the last two years. I think playing shortstop every day will go a long way to dealing with this perceived problem.

[Squirrel]

9 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

So if Lewis is not the shortstop of the future which player should be playing shortstop for the Twins in 2023?

 

Correa. That would be my wish, with Lewis sliding over to 3rd.

[Riverbrian]

23 hours ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

Range isn't the issue.....the reaction time and footwork at 3B is totally different.  Machado made the move look easy, but he may be an outlier.

Thinking about players who moved to 3B... Off the top of my head,

Moncada, Jose Ramirez and Witt Jr in the AL Central. Ex Twins Donaldson and Eduardo Escobar as well. Plus Bregman, McMahon and Luis Urias, 

Throw in

Arod

Chipper Jones

Pete Rose

Paul Molitor

All of these guys are also outliers. ?

 

[Nine of twelve]

19 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Correa. That would be my wish.

And what is the chance of that happening? Less than 3% if you ask me.

[Riverbrian]

51 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

 

As for Lewis, he has done well. Hope it continues, but he looks awkward at SS 

I was having dinner with my wife the other night. My wife thought that the waitress looked crabby. 

I didn't see what she saw. 

The food arrived promptly and the ribeye was cooked to perfection. 

My wife still thought we should leave a lower level tip.  

 

[Squirrel]

15 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

And what is the chance of that happening? Less than 3% if you ask me.

So there's still a chance then

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I've never seen Urshela play 1B and the answer to your question is Yes. 

You sure? A very specialized skill set is needed.

[Riverbrian]

19 minutes ago, ashbury said:

You sure? A very specialized skill set is needed.

Brad Pitt: Hey anything worth doing is. 

 

[RpR]

Houston destroyed the Twins with a heavy rookie squad playing and some want them to stay ; if the Twins were in third or fourth place and no future, maybe, but they cannot play AAA learning ground or they will be in third or fouurth.

[cheeseheadgophfan]

On 5/14/2022 at 10:26 AM, Riverbrian said:

Thinking about players who moved to 3B... Off the top of my head,

Moncada, Jose Ramirez and Witt Jr in the AL Central. Ex Twins Donaldson and Eduardo Escobar as well. Plus Bregman, McMahon and Luis Urias, 

Throw in

Arod

Chipper Jones

Pete Rose

Paul Molitor

All of these guys are also outliers. ?

 

How many of those guys made the switch at the Major League level?  Chipper, Molitor, Moncada, Ramizer, Witt....none made the move without playing the position in the minors......that's all i'm saying.  

[Riverbrian]

56 minutes ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

How many of those guys made the switch at the Major League level?  Chipper, Molitor, Moncada, Ramizer, Witt....none made the move without playing the position in the minors......that's all i'm saying.  

I agree that positional flexibility should be developed in the minors. However... here are the totals of the players I came up with off the top of my head. Other than Ryan McMahon... the players all spent their time being primarily developed at other positions. 

Yoan Moncada played 18 games at 3B in the minors

Jose Ramirez played 12 games at 3B in the minors

Bobby Witt JR. Played 17 games at 3B in the minors 

Donaldson played 85 games at 3B in the minors

Escobar played 22 games at 3B in the minors

Alex Bregman played 23 games at 3B in the minors 

Ryan McMahon played 393 games at 3B in the minors

Luis Urias played 58 games at 3B in the minors

A-Rod played 13 games at 3B in the minors

Chipper Jones played 7 games at 3B in the minors

Pete Rose played 0 games at 3B in the minors

Paul Molitor played 0 games at 3B in the minors

 

Royce Lewis played 12 games at Salt River... We should be good to go. ?