So what exactly do we do about the catcher spot?

[DocBauer]

Well, the Twins are playing much better as of late. (Interesting they have a better W-L record against winning teams than losing teams) We are actually seeing a good many young talented players contribute and develop, and have more on the way. We have some top pitching prospects inching closer at AA, Berrios back in the majors, a slew of young RP ready to kick in the door, and the recent trade deadline saw a couple more talented pitchers arrive, along with a solid under 30yo veteran.

 

Things are a changing for the Twins, and there are some real reasons for optomism looking ahead. But the one, critical, spot where there is no immediate answer still appears to be at catcher. We continually speculate as to Suzuki's status, and many still expect him to be traded. And he should be a FA at the end of this season regardless.

 

So looking forward, to 2017 at least, where do the Twins go from here?

 

Options:

 

A} BIG TIME FA signing in Ramos or Wieters. Assuming either of these two would be interested in joining a talented young nucleus of players with a playoff window probably at least a year away, should the Twins really consider another expensive and long term deal for either of these two? Wieters is already over 30, Ramos will be, I believe, 29 next season. Yes they are good players, but do we want an expensive, over 30yo backstop just when this team is starting to click?

 

B} Stop gap veteran FA such as Avilla, Jason Castro, Iannetta, Navarro, Soto and even Suzuki are probably the top names here. Most of these names are beyond their prime, no longer the hitters some of them were before, (though there is a bit of pop here and there), and Suzuki...the devil you know...may just be the best known the bunch. If they could find the right guy here, they could get lucky for a year to buy Garver and maybe Murphy some time to get ready.

 

C} What about buying promise? How about trading a couple solid prospects for the likes of Plaweki or d'Arnaud from the Mets, Norris from the Padres or Zunino from the Mariners, to name a few. Guys that haven't DONE IT yet, but have some talent, could maybe use a new opportunity and change of scenery.

 

D} Trade for a big time prospect. I don't have all the names as possibles here, and I'm sure most teams would be loathe to surrender a top defensive/offensive catching prospect unless the Twins would surrender at least a couple of their top 10 prospects. Are we prepared to do that?

 

E} keep the status quo...for the most part. You look for a waiver or milb FA like John Hicks, who the Twins had and lost and should have kept, to go along with Murphy, Centeno and Garver. Garver may not be ready at the start of 2017, but could be ready at some point. We might know more if he does get a September call up.

 

I'm really not sure what the right answer is here. I'd love to say sign a veteran for a year, sign the aforementioned waiver/milb FA guy, and give Garver more time. But Suzuki may be the best option in that regard, in which case we'really better off just keeping him. I really don't like the idea of investing a big contract on a 30 or nearly 30yo veteran.

 

What say all of you?

[alarp33]

If the new GM thinks they can compete next year, they should offer Ramos something in the Russell Martin range (5/$82). Also, trade for a starter that can pair with Berrios at the top of the rotation.

[Mr. Brooks]

Personally, I'm still in asset allocation mode. I wouldn't trade any prospects...yet.

 

Which means I'd lean toward either signing a make good 1 year bounce back candidate that can be flipped. Or, just turning out over to Murphy and Garver and letting them sink or swim.

[Homer Hanky]

why did we get rid of hicks...? He was the main C I was excited about...

[alarp33]

Personally, I'm still in asset allocation mode. I wouldn't trade any prospects...yet.

Which means I'd lean toward either signing a make good 1 year bounce back candidate that can be flipped. Or, just turning out over to Murphy and Garver and letting them sink or swim.

In my "go for it" scenario, I'm probably trading Dozier and Santana... So I'm not depleting the farm system by trading for a pitcher. Still a youth movement, but at the same time I think competitive

[Kwak]

"Big time free agent"--forget it! None are signing with the Twins. I'm guessing they decline the option on Suzuki--then offer him a new contract.

[SwainZag]

I think it's an interesting situation.

 

Option A.  Ramos hasn't exactly been the healthiest player playing in 90+ games twice in the last 5 years (not counting this year) and this has been his best year BY FAR in his career.  A big reason is his nice decrease in K's and his .351 BABIP.  There even comes the topic if the Nats give him a QO, do the Twins surrender their 2nd round pick to sign him to a big money deal?

 

Weiters has only started 65 of Baltimore's 104 games at Catcher and hasn't been healthy enough to catch 100 games since 2013.  While he is a very good defensive catcher, his bat has been down and with the log jam at 1B/DH, do you pay him big money to start at Catcher part time?  Do you push him to start more knowing his injury history?

 

B. Ideally if Suzuki's vesting option became a team option, I would say I hope the Twins pick it up and bring back Zuke for another season, but it's not, and I doubt he would accept a 1 year deal when he could probably get multi years on the open market.  That leaves the other veteran options open.  Maybe sign a 1 year deal to pair with Centeno or Murphy if it's out there?

 

C. I would be for the buying promise if the price was right.  None of those 3 have shown much in the bigs, besides Norris who has been awful at the plate this year.

 

D.  I honestly couldn't tell you how many big time catching prospects are close to the majors, but I could only imagine if there are some the price would be insanely high.

 

E. This is probably the most likely option with Centeno, Murphy and Garver.  If they went this way and did find themselves in contention, a trade could always bring them a veteran if they don't sign one in the offseason.

 

My thoughts on the matter.  

[S.]

I think a lot of it is going to depend on the trade market. I'd imagine we're going to be shopping quite a few players the rest of this season/this offseason, and its certainly possible we could could get a serviceable MLB catcher as part of a deal, or a catching prospect who might adjust our plans. Tough to say. I don't think spending big money on an FA catcher at this point is a smart move, as I'm definitely in the camp that it'd be foolish to think we're going to be highly competitive in 2017. And I'm 100% against trading any of our top prospects for a catcher.

 

I'd prefer not to see us sign Suzuki to another deal, but beyond that I'm not too sure what the best option is here. 1-2 year deal on someone serviceable is probably our best bet if nothing happens with C in trades, but at that point FO might prefer the guy they know in Suzuki. 

[Rosterman]

Be interesting to see what players ago thru the August waiver cycle and if the Twins grab any of these guys that still have future control. We do have 4 40-,am rooster spots. Pretty good position to be if other teams are cutting assets to get new assets. We have to be the first or second choice on any or all of these.

[ashbury]

I'm guessing they decline the option on Suzuki--then offer him a new contract.

Supposing they shopped Zuke at the deadline and found no takers, wouldn't they take the hint that maybe he's just not that valuable of a catcher? Sometimes you can let the other teams do your scouting for you...

[nytwinsfan]

Give Garver, Murphy and/or Centeno a chance -- try platooning Centeno with one of the other two, wait to see how the draft goes (in case Twins get JJ Schwartz) and then if neither of those avenues produces a catcher, trade a prospect for a decent catcher/almost ready catching prospect mid-year.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I think it's an interesting situation.

 

Option A. Ramos hasn't exactly been the healthiest player playing in 90+ games twice in the last 5 years (not counting this year) and this has been his best year BY FAR in his career. A big reason is his nice decrease in K's and his .351 BABIP. There even comes the topic if the Nats give him a QO, do the Twins surrender their 2nd round pick to sign him to a big money deal?

 

Weiters has only started 65 of Baltimore's 104 games at Catcher and hasn't been healthy enough to catch 100 games since 2013. While he is a very good defensive catcher, his bat has been down and with the log jam at 1B/DH, do you pay him big money to start at Catcher part time? Do you push him to start more knowing his injury history?

 

B. Ideally if Suzuki's vesting option became a team option, I would say I hope the Twins pick it up and bring back Zuke for another season, but it's not, and I doubt he would accept a 1 year deal when he could probably get multi years on the open market. That leaves the other veteran options open. Maybe sign a 1 year deal to pair with Centeno or Murphy if it's out there?

 

C. I would be for the buying promise if the price was right. None of those 3 have shown much in the bigs, besides Norris who has been awful at the plate this year.

 

D. I honestly couldn't tell you how many big time catching prospects are close to the majors, but I could only imagine if there are some the price would be insanely high.

 

E. This is probably the most likely option with Centeno, Murphy and Garver. If they went this way and did find themselves in contention, a trade could always bring them a veteran if they don't sign one in the offseason.

 

My thoughts on the matter.

id be tempted to resign Zukes/Option E for one year, but man that's alotta eggs in one Garver basket with no real options behind him.

[dgwills]

 

Give Garver, Murphy and/or Centeno a chance -- try platooning Centeno with one of the other two, wait to see how the draft goes (in case Twins get JJ Schwartz) and then if neither of those avenues produces a catcher, trade a prospect for a decent catcher/almost ready catching prospect mid-year.

You beat me by one minute. The Twins are probably playing too good to get Schwarz. That's still the dreams though. I'd pick up a stop gap just in case those guys are a disaster.

[Riverbrian]

I feel pretty strongly about this.

 

There are only 4 or 5 Posey type catchers. Lucroy just cost Brinson plus to acquire. They are expensive and because of the position they play... They have to rest.

 

After those 4 or 5 posey types... It's average to below average batting for the rest. It's just not worth the price. It's a horrible overpay.

 

The only sensible solution is to grow your own and until that happens... Sign medium priced stop gaps. If that is Soto or Suzuki... Whatever.

 

I know the philosophy is best player available come draft time but I would like the Twins to identify the top college catcher and draft whoever that is. Grow your own Posey is the only way.

[TheLeviathan]

Mauer?

 

(In first boys!)

[USAFChief]

I'd be pretty surprised if Suzuki isn't a Twin in 2017.

[Jham]

I like Avila as a stop gap, but I'd role with Zuke again if need be provided we have a legit defensive catcher on the roster as well.  In our organization, that's probably Stuart Turner I would think...

[magiklair]

I'd like to see what Centeno can do. It's unfortunate we didn't trade Suzuki to give him that time

[Badsmerf]

I don't know where they are with Suzuki, but I guarantee they know where he stands compared to the rest of the league. They will try to upgrade, but it isn't going to be easy. I would guess Santana, Dozier and Rosario will all be available. If I was the twins, I'd talk to mauer. See how many games he'd be willing to catch.

[magiklair]

 

I don't know where they are with Suzuki, but I guarantee they know where he stands compared to the rest of the league. They will try to upgrade, but it isn't going to be easy. I would guess Santana, Dozier and Rosario will all be available. If I was the twins, I'd talk to mauer. See how many games he'd be willing to catch.

Are you being sarcastic when you say Mauer? Never going to catch again..

[glunn]

Moderator note -- the Mauer catching again issues have been debated ad nauseum.  If you want to debate this then please start a separate thread.

[DocBauer]

I like Avila as a stop gap, but I'd role with Zuke again if need be provided we have a legit defensive catcher on the roster as well.  In our organization, that's probably Stuart Turner I would think...

As stated in my post, I'm not sure of the right answer. If I could look in a crystal ball, I'd go with a short term veteran, add someone like Hicks FA, (man, but I think we blew that one-think he could help), and go with Murphy or Centeno as the backup buying Garver time. I'm high on Garver, but I dislike the idea of pushing him too quickly. Avilla is a guy I think about, but he hasn't been a full time starter in two years. Maybe we'really better off with Zuke since our pitchers know him and like him?

 

But unless we feel pretty good about said veteran FA, on the short term, I'm inclined to go with option E, the status quo with hope of getting lucky with a milb type FA adding to the competition. (Anyone remember former Twin farmland Damian Miller?) If Garver surprises....GREAT. But choose the best 2 of Murphy, Centeno and the signing and wait for Garver.

[Don Walcott]

I feel pretty strongly about this.

There are only 4 or 5 Posey type catchers. Lucroy just cost Brinson plus to acquire. They are expensive and because of the position they play... They have to rest.

After those 4 or 5 posey types... It's average to below average batting for the rest. It's just not worth the price. It's a horrible overpay.

The only sensible solution is to grow your own and until that happens... Sign medium priced stop gaps. If that is Soto or Suzuki... Whatever.

I know the philosophy is best player available come draft time but I would like the Twins to identify the top college catcher and draft whoever that is. Grow your own Posey is the only way.

I'd say there's only one Posey, and from year-to-year 2-3 others who hit that well -- and you don't necessarily know who they'll be. All of them are one screaming foul tip away from being out for days, weeks, or being done catching for good. Paying the high price for this rare commodity is a huge risk that, in my opinion, is not worth taking.

 

I hope that if we gamble in the off-season, it will be on trading for or signing a guy for the top of our rotation. Period.

[mudcat14]

Toronto now has two highly regarded catching prospects in Reece McGuire & Max Pentacost.  The former is a defensive whiz with uncertain offensive potential, while the latter has a superior bat, but is recovering from surgery and currently limited to DH duties.  I' not sure if he'd clear waivers, but Santana was on The Jays radar at the deadline  Maybe something could be worked out involving them.

[Cory Engelhardt]

Mike Berardino mentioned in Brandon Warne's podcast a month or two ago that he thinks the Twins could attempt to acquire Cameron Rupp of the Phillies. They have some other prospects that are close to the majors and may still want Carlos Ruiz around as well, so Rupp could be attainable. He has a good bat (10 homeruns this year so far) and will be 28 all of next year. Don't know what it would take, and I also don't know what he is like defensively.

 

[Thrylos]

 

If the new GM thinks they can compete next year, they should offer Ramos something in the Russell Martin range (5/$82). Also, trade for a starter that can pair with Berrios at the top of the rotation.

 

So you think that an 100-loss team is a C and a SP away from competing?

 

The Twins need a plan.  Ramos might fit it, he may not.  If the plan is to rebuild and compete in 2019 (when Mauer is not around) then Ramos does not fit the plan

[Thrylos]

 

Mike Berardino mentioned in Brandon Warne's podcast a month or two ago that he thinks the Twins could attempt to acquire Cameron Rupp of the Phillies. They have some other prospects that are close to the majors and may still want Carlos Ruiz around as well, so Rupp could be attainable. He has a good bat (10 homeruns this year so far) and will be 28 all of next year. Don't know what it would take, and I also don't know what he is like defensively.

 

23 year old Jorge Alfaro (mainly) who is playing at AA and came from Texas in the Cole Hamels trade, and multiple times top-100 prospect. 

 

I bet they want to sell high on Rupp, after his only good season (last season he had a .675 OPS, the one before .484 in the majors and .555 in my hometown AAA team).   Not sure that he will be an upgrade over JR Murphy or, especially over Mitch Garver who is hitting .276/.354/.452 in AA.

 

If it were up to me, I'd break camp in 2017 with Garver and Murphy as the 2 Twins' catchers and take it from there.

[alarp33]

 

So you think that an 100-loss team is a C and a SP away from competing?

 

The Twins need a plan.  Ramos might fit it, he may not.  If the plan is to rebuild and compete in 2019 (when Mauer is not around) then Ramos does not fit the plan

 

Compete to win the World Series? No.  Win 80-85 games, and maybe get a bit lucky? Sure.  

 

Signing Ramos and trading for a pitcher obviously wouldn't be the only moves I would make.  I'd deal Santana and Dozier, would lean not tendering Santiago, and bringing in an additional starter, and left fielder or DH.  I'm getting younger, payroll isn't an issue, don't think I've depleted the farm and I think the team would be pretty decent 

 

Buxton (CF)

Polanco (2B)

Kepler  (RF)

Sano  (3B)

Ramos ©

DH

Mauer (1B)

LF

Escobar (SS)

 

Berrios

Trade

May

Gibson

Mejia, Duffey, Trade

[diehardtwinsfan]

To answer the question, I think one of Garver or Murphy turns into a decent catching option.  Not ready to close the book on Murphy just yet, but that certainly hasn't done well. Given his success with NY and in the minors, I'm wondering if different coaching might do him well... who knows... or perhaps he's working on a weak point in his game and that's why those numbers are not good...again who knows.  I'd probably go do something. 

 

Personally, I'd love the Ramos splash. I can understand though if they don't want to give up what will likely be a high pick, but that allows us to give Murphy a shot as a backup C in 2017 and then a chance to rotate Garver in during late 2017/early 2018 for injury or ineffectiveness.  If that's not the option, then I'd do the 1 year make good lotto ticket knowing that I'm probably flipping the guy if he does well and going Garver/Murphy/Turner in 2018, unless of course a guy like Dozier nets a really nice near ML ready catching prospect. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Toronto now has two highly regarded catching prospects in Reece McGuire & Max Pentacost.  The former is a defensive whiz with uncertain offensive potential, while the latter has a superior bat, but is recovering from surgery and currently limited to DH duties.  I' not sure if he'd clear waivers, but Santana was on The Jays radar at the deadline  Maybe something could be worked out involving them.

Yeah, I was intrigued by McGuire too.  At first I thought he was more or less just another Stuart Turner, but McGuire has always had very low strikeout rates, which is perhaps a skill that will translate better to MLB than Turner's advantages in minor league power and walk rate.  And he's 3 years younger than Turner, and doesn't need Rule 5 protection until after the 2017 season.

 

Wouldn't hurt to keep talking to Toronto, but I wonder -- should the Twins have been talking to Pittsburgh?  Perhaps we could have eaten Liriano's $17 million to acquire McGuire and the other prospect?