So what exactly do we do about the catcher spot?

[Mike Sixel]

This is hard....... but I'd find the best defensive veteran I can that is on a 1 year deal, and sign him. I want Berrios and Santiago and Gibson getting as many extra strikes and other advantages as possible.....

 

I'd promote Garver this fall, and get a good look at him. If I think he's close, I'd promote him next year to start around 60 -80 games up here, and back up the new veteran.

[Monkeypaws]

I'd avoid the expensive free agent route, especially guys with lots of mileage on them.

 

I'd like to think Garver is the future, and he is almost ready. Murphy could still turn it around. Turner could be a solid back up. 

 

Garver has thrown out 51% of would be base stealers this season at Chattanooga. He's 25 years old. He has an ops just over .800 in over 300 AA at bats. Pretty solid.

[alarp33]

 

I feel pretty strongly about this.

There are only 4 or 5 Posey type catchers. Lucroy just cost Brinson plus to acquire. They are expensive and because of the position they play... They have to rest.

After those 4 or 5 posey types... It's average to below average batting for the rest. It's just not worth the price. It's a horrible overpay.
 

 

I'm not disagreeing that there are only a few elite catching options, and then there is everyone else.  BUT, if your "Posey" list is 4 or 5 deep, I'm pretty sure Ramos is on that list and is going to be a free agent.  Doesn't look like they have a home grown option on the horizon, no pitchers worth spending $15 milion/year + on this offseason.... Seems like a prime opportunity to shore up the position for 5 years. 

[alarp33]

 

I'm not so sure they will decline the option, especially if he doesn't fade much offensively over the final two months -- how much less than $6 mil would they have to offer him?  AJ is making $3 mil this year, Navarro $4 mil, Soto $2.8 mil.  If Suzuki is the guy you want, it would seem kind of foolish to let him test the market in an attempt to save such a trivial amount of cash -- I could see a contender like Baltimore offering him something, maybe just $4-5 mil plus incentives, and all of a sudden we'd have to offer him more than what his option year would have cost us, or potentially be left kicking the tires on AJ again.

 

It's not an option that they have a choice on.  The option will not vest, he is a free agent regardless

[mazeville]

Not sure that I like the idea of acquiring a catcher. They're expensive and difficult to find. I'd have rather the Twins take advantage of that by trading Suzuki at the deadline, and then give playing time to Mitch Garver while hoping John Ryan Murphy pans out.

 

Both Ramos and Wieters spend too much time on the DL for me to shell out huge $$$ for them.

 

So I think I'd rather the Twins use some combination of their existing assets while hoping to catch one on waivers. 

[ghegge]

I would definitely look to trade for Norris on a buy low candidate. I mean he is hitting pretty terrible this year, his defense is okay, and I think he could be had for a lottery ticket. I think he could bounce back offensively with us because we have a better lineup around him than the Friars. Then I'd probably use Turner as our backup regardless of how he hits, we need a solid defensive catcher on the major league roster for a change. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

How much would you guys be willing to pay Ramos?  Seems like Washington might be willing to bid him up, they are definitely in win-now mode and it doesn't look like they have an internal replacement.  And of course they'd be the one contender that wouldn't have to surrender their first round pick to sign him (although they would be losing a comp pick that wouldn't be far behind).

[alarp33]

 

How much would you guys be willing to pay Ramos?  Seems like Washington might be willing to bid him up, they are definitely in win-now mode and it doesn't look like they have an internal replacement.  And of course they'd be the one contender that wouldn't have to surrender their first round pick to sign him (although they would be losing a comp pick that wouldn't be far behind).

 

At the absolute most, Russell Martin money.  5 years, $82 million.  He has less of a track record than Martin, so I would try something like 4 for $60

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

It's not an option that they have a choice on.  The option will not vest, he is a free agent regardless

I wondered about that too, but more knowledgeable minds than I have advised me it's basically a team option, despite the word "team" not appearing in the reportage on the deal.

[gocgo]

What?  No mention of Butters?  He's a free agent next year!

[alarp33]

 

I wondered about that too, but more knowledgeable minds than I have advised me it's basically a team option, despite the word "team" not appearing in the reportage on the deal.

 

Someone was having this discussion on Twitter just a couple of days ago, Mike Berardino I believe, and said the team confirmed it is a vesting option only, neither player or team have a say in it.  

[jorgenswest]

It is not reasonable that Mithc Garver is ready. He hasn't caught enough in the minors. His catching skill was questioned when coming out of college. He isn't even the regular catcher for his AA team.

 

The scouting by slash stats is nice and they look good for a AA catcher. However, he is a AA DH/1B/C. He hasn't caught games on back to back days since June. He catches 2 or 3 times a week. The Twins have no idea how he will hold up when the catcher load increases. It is bound to impact his performance at the plate.

 

Looking back and saying he should have started at a higher level coming out of college or he shouldn't have been paired with Turner has little meaning for today. Today he is not ready to take on the load and play the defense expected of a major league catcher. Turner is more ready. If the Twins project Garver as a major league regular catcher, they need to play him regularly at catcher. Starting today and continuing next year in AAA.

 

They can not go into next season with Garver in the major league plans. It would be like calling up Pinto at the end of the year and thinking that sample was enough to demonstrate that he was ready to be the regular catcher. It wasn't then. It isn't now. Sign someone for a year and let Garver be the regular catcher in AAA.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Someone was having this discussion on Twitter just a couple of days ago, Mike Berardino I believe, and said the team confirmed it is a vesting option only, neither player or team have a say in it.  

Thanks!  Yes, Berardino talked about it on Twitter, and it looks like he just confirmed it in no uncertain terms:

 

https://twitter.com/MikeBerardino/status/760841429140672512

 

If so, my pedantry about it has been rewarded!

[kab21]

I am in general against giving catchers big money contracts. A case can be made for it but I would prefer a Alex Avila type as a stopgap. Pair him with another catcher and look for a longer term answer elsewhere.

[Major League Ready]

I think Thros makes a very good point that a 100 loss team is not a Catcher and a SP away from contention.  However, this is also not the same team that started the season so poorly.  That team could not score runs. 

 

Dozier was horrible.  It is obvious that Bruno/Dozier have made the right adjustments and this is a different Dozier.   He is hitting the ball to the opposite field with authority.
Kepler is a net new add.  He is a big plus offensively and defensively. 
Even Mauer has improved.  He is no longer a one trick pony to left field
Grossman’s OBP is a plus
Santiago will be a plus in the rotation. 

Vargas looks like a different player.  His approach is much better.
Taylor Rogers is looking like part of the solution

 

IT’s not the same team that was on a 100 loss projection.  They have been playing over 500 for a while now.  Having said this, I still think your point is completely valid.  The team has some development to do before we fill needs through major FA signings.

[ThejacKmp]

Very much against option A. If you go back over the past five years and look at all of the 3+ year contracts for free agent catchers, they are an abomination. Russel Martin at 5 for $82 looks terrible now, the Phillies can’t get rid of Ruiz in the last year of his deal and Saltalamacchia has been awful. The best of the bunch might be Brian McCann, who gave the Yankees a few good years but now will be sent through waivers unclaimed because that contract is awful. Point is, free agent catchers are the worst. The Twins should be using their money to sign Buxton/Kepler/Berrios/Sano etc., not throwing it into the money pit that is a marquee free agent catcher.

 

I don’t want to use more of our capital on catchers at this point. Next year should be Garver/Murphy/Centeno. You’ve got competence with Centeno and both Murphy and Garver have some upside offensively. If next year sucks you can always trade for the Suzuki/Pierzynski type if you’re somehow in it at the break and if not, you at least know where you need to invest for 2018.

 

Would love to draft Schwarz but the Twins were never a bottom two or three team. Not good but not that bad. They’re going to play .500 ball the rest of the way and end up drafting too far down to get Schwarz unless some injury make shim drop. That’s too bad because he would have been nice.

[ThejacKmp]

 

It is not reasonable that Mithc Garver is ready. He hasn't caught enough in the minors. His catching skill was questioned when coming out of college. He isn't even the regular catcher for his AA team.

The scouting by slash stats is nice and they look good for a AA catcher. However, he is a AA DH/1B/C. He hasn't caught games on back to back days since June. He catches 2 or 3 times a week. The Twins have no idea how he will hold up when the catcher load increases. It is bound to impact his performance at the plate.

Looking back and saying he should have started at a higher level coming out of college or he shouldn't have been paired with Turner has little meaning for today. Today he is not ready to take on the load and play the defense expected of a major league catcher. Turner is more ready. If the Twins project Garver as a major league regular catcher, they need to play him regularly at catcher. Starting today and continuing next year in AAA.

They can not go into next season with Garver in the major league plans. It would be like calling up Pinto at the end of the year and thinking that sample was enough to demonstrate that he was ready to be the regular catcher. It wasn't then. It isn't now. Sign someone for a year and let Garver be the regular catcher in AAA.

 

Tentatively agree with this. I think next year Murphy should be the starter and if Garver looks so ready for the majors that you're going to get him PT other places, he should be the backup. More likely, Centeno is your backup and Garver gets to play every day in AAA to see if he's ready. Centeno is a fine backup catcher and Murphy should get another unequivocal shot at it. You can always make Centeno a below-average starter if Murphy/Garver are awful or trade for a Suzuki type on a bad team.

[Mike Sixel]

Is Murphy hitting in AAA? I mean, why should he get to be in the majors?

[ThejacKmp]

 

So you think that an 100-loss team is a C and a SP away from competing?

 

The Twins need a plan.  Ramos might fit it, he may not.  If the plan is to rebuild and compete in 2019 (when Mauer is not around) then Ramos does not fit the plan

 

The Twins are fully capable of being a competitive team next year, especially since in baseball, competitive is playing .500 ball until late August. They're not likely to make the playoffs and if they did somehow, they're not winning it all but it seems overly negative to think they can't play .500+ ball.

 

Their rotation is not going to be a strength yet but its not crazy to think Berrios/Santana/Santiago/Gibson/5th starter could be average while the development of Rosario/Buxton/Kepler/Sano etc. make hitting a real strength. Bullpen performance is entirely variable and the Twins have a lot of young guys to throw at the wall and watch them coalesce into an above average pen.

 

Would I bet money on the Twins competing next year? Probably not, I have a mortgage that needs paying. But I don't think I'd be scoffing at people who have a concept the Twins might be competitive next year. That team will likely be better than the competitive 2015 team and could very well achieve the same things they did.

 

* I too am against signing Ramos but only because signing free agent catchers to long term deals is even more likely to fail than signing relievers to long term deals.

[DocBauer]

Is Murphy hitting in AAA? I mean, why should he get to be in the majors?

You'reached right, of course, he's not hitting at AAA. For whatever reason (s) young ballplayers sometimes take a step back before moving forward. But he has hit before, and the Twins traded for him for a reason. I think they need to take a long hard look at him before the season is done. Maybe the trade initially shocked him. Maybe he put too much pressure on himself, got off to a poor start and it stuck. Maybe he Ned's contact. Who knows. But sometimes a guy gets his second opportunity when it doesn't look on paper like he deserves it, then goes out and does surprisingly well.

[nicksaviking]

I've been of the mind that catcher is a position that is about to become a league wide liability. The best hitters don't stunt their offensive potential anymore by taking up the position, and if it hasn't happened already, many parents are going to start keeping their kids from playing it due to the new national concussion awareness. Posey is the only (last?) year-in year-out good catcher. I'm not paying for the streaky and oft injured Ramos or Weiters, that sounds like throwing money away.

 

The Twins can build a roster with an offensive hole at catcher, the rest of the league either already does or soon will. In 20 years both leagues will have the DH and catcher will be the new pitcher when filling out the lineup.

[Taildragger8791]

 

You'reached right, of course, he's not hitting at AAA. For whatever reason (s) young ballplayers sometimes take a step back before moving forward. But he has hit before, and the Twins traded for him for a reason. I think they need to take a long hard look at him before the season is done. Maybe the trade initially shocked him. Maybe he put too much pressure on himself, got off to a poor start and it stuck. Maybe he Ned's contact. Who knows. But sometimes a guy gets his second opportunity when it doesn't look on paper like he deserves it, then goes out and does surprisingly well.

 

That doesn't sound like someone I want to slot into a starting position, however. There needs to be at least one competent catcher on the roster to stabilize things in the event Murphy doesn't bounce back. The Twins need to stop putting lottery tickets into can't fail situations.

[Shane Wahl]

After trading Suzuki, call up both Garver and Murphy in September. Centeno is not a good defensive catcher and the bat won't come around either, likely. Next year you just have a competition between Murphy, Garver, and Turner. I do think, as I said last offseason, that the latter two are going to be better MLBers than Murphy.

[ashbury]

Going aggressively after a stud catcher is a luxury for teams that have essentially no other positions to upgrade. If by luck of drafting and development you happen to wind up with one, great. But on a team with holes, a stud catcher gives you a lot of problems with flexibility, since he'll need to play DH/1B nearly one out of three games if you don't want to lose his bat. We went through that learning experience with Mauer. It's not an unsolvable problem but it reduces your manager's flexibility by quite a bit and he'll be begging to carry a third catcher. Like I said, a luxury, to be reserved for a team that is ready to contend, since it's less painful to sit your stud catcher when it's not his day to catch if your lineup is pretty solid. You probably get less bang for buck at that position than any other.

[jimmer]

 

Is Murphy hitting in AAA? I mean, why should he get to be in the majors?

I don't think an OPS under .550 in the minors screams 'I'm worthy of promotion' but we're still hoping he can sustain a mid .300s BABIP like he did the last two season with NY :-)

[Taildragger8791]

 

Is Murphy hitting in AAA? I mean, why should he get to be in the majors?

 

Other than a hot stretch for the first couple of weeks in June he's been a disaster. In July he hit .191/.219/.221. Woof. He could bounce back next season but I wouldn't bet the position's future on him, Garver, or Turner being ready in April.

 

I think you have to pick up one half-decent catcher for next season, even if it's resigning Suzuki for a year. We saw what happens earlier this year when you just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall hoping something sticks. Most of the time you just end up with a mess at your feet. Good teams build in insurance and make players earn their job.

[amjgt]

 

So you think that an 100-loss team is a C and a SP away from competing?

 

The Twins need a plan.  Ramos might fit it, he may not.  If the plan is to rebuild and compete in 2019 (when Mauer is not around) then Ramos does not fit the plan

 

So, you're predicting 20-36 the rest of the way, then?

[amjgt]

 

It's not an option that they have a choice on.  The option will not vest, he is a free agent regardless

 

Nevermind.... was addressed on Page 3

[HitInAPinch]

Reading all the options presented here, I'd say the only real hopes at catcher are:

• Pray that an internal options suddenly becomes an option
• Resign Suzuki.

 

 

[Mr. Brooks]

So, you're predicting 20-36 the rest of the way, then?

Well they are on pace for 98 losses, so probably close enough for the purpose of discussion to call them "a 100 loss team".