Is it time for a new GM?

[Linus]

This was a great read of the Startribune comments section. Thought I was at the Twins Daily site.....

[Danchat]

I considered joining the "fire TR" bandwagon after the awful 1-7 start to the season.

 

After a few months of better baseball... I'm actually more inclined to join that bandwagon.

 

Look, I don't like an aggressive GM like the Padres AJ Preller. I do like a GM a little more on the conservative side. 

 

But TR has shown that he just isn't wiling to fix the holes on the team. No, I'm not talking about SS and C. I'm actually talking about CF and the bullpen. 

 

What did TR do to fix the problem in CF? Signed Shane Robinson and then let Schafer embarrass himself as the starter. He's lucky that Hicks has finally stepped up as the primary CF.

 

And my goodness... I don't think I need to talk about the bullpen... but giving $2M to both Duensing and Stauffer and then calling it a day? Unacceptable. Sure, watching Boyer and Thompson go nuts in May was great. But now we're throwing out a bullpen that can't strike guys out, walks a bunch, and gives up big hits night in and night out. 

 

Not to mention, thanks to the deficiencies of this team, we've plummeted from 1st place in the American League to nearly .500 at a fast pace. Now, of course this wasn't sustainable in the first place, but I feel like if TR added a solid 8th inning bullpen arm or tried out a few other guys outside of Boyer and Fien, we'd be doing a little better and at least we could say that our GM was trying.

 

I just don't think TR can do it. Just watch him give Hunter another deal, guaranteeing a 41 year old RF to play the whole season there, blocking Arcia and Kepler.

 

One last thing. Dumpster diving can work. We've seen Burton and Fien work out great for the Twins. But when the wheels come off, you have to give up on them quick. Too many times we've seen TR stick with a lousy vet (Roenicke, Gray, late Burton, late Duensing, Guerrier).

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Your post brings 2007 to mind. We just don't have a Luis Castillo to be traded while still in the playoff hunt while bringing no one in :-)

Just like 2007, we could probably trade for Butera again.

[spinowner]

Seemingly minority opinion coming:

I think the decision whether Ryan should continue as GM should be based on two things.

First, on the big picture of what he has accomplished so far. (Not on whether he did or didn't make a trade during a particular 1-week period of the 3+ years of his current tenure.) I have been saying ever since I came to this board and I will continue to say that at this juncture this team is still rebuilding. There are no shortcuts in rebuilding a baseball franchise the right way. (Unless you're one of about five or six teams with essentially unlimited resources, and even then it's a difficult job. If you don't believe that look at the Red Sox and the Phillies.) Given the state of the organization when he took over in 2011 I think he has been successful in what he has done so far. Ryan may have said that his goal was to win this year but very few GM's are going to say publicly during March that trying to compete is not their top priority. In spite of that statement almost everyone, including almost everyone on this board, knew that contention for the postseason this year was a very long shot. The interesting occurrence of being hot for one month while performing as expected during the other three months should not distract management from the job of rebuilding this franchise.

Second, on whether he is the best person to run the franchise after it has been rebuilt to the point where the major league team is a solid contender. I don't think the franchise is at that stage yet but I think there are many indications that we will be in two years or less. I certainly think there is legitimacy to the opinion that he may not be. And if ownership makes the decision that he is not the best person for that job the questions are, first, who is that person, and, second, when should the change should be made.

So my answer to this thread's question is no, not now, but I think Jim Pohlad should start being proactive about evaluating possible future GM's because who is hired is the most important decision he will make. He needs to be ready to move when it's time.

[spinowner]

And may I add that anyone who advocates removing Ryan now or in the near future needs to have a specific excellent available successor in mind. The only names I've read are Molitor and not Antony. 

[DaveW]

This was a great read of the Startribune comments section. Thought I was at the Twins Daily site.....

Thanks for the worthwhile contribution to the thread!

[nicksaviking]

 

A few losses to some of the hottest teams in baseball and everyone is ready to send Ryan down the road. Starting to sound like Red Sox fans. As if throwing money around would solve all the Twins problems. General managers don't win and lose games, players do. Twins have been playing some sloppy ball. That's not Ryan's fault.

 

It's not Ryan's fault that he's signing sloppy ball players?

 

The KC relievers have taken the loss five times this year.  The Twins relievers have taken the loss 16 times.    Not so coincidentally, the Royals have a 9 game lead on the Twins. The bullpen is the easiest and cheapest area to fix and it should have been fixed in June if not sooner.  Ryan was short-sighted putting together this bunch of noodle armed meatballs and then he was too stubborn to fix the problem when there was still time to fix it.

 

I'm fine looking ahead to 2016 and beyond, but Ryan's insistence that the team was going to be relevant and then signing veterans instead of promoting young talent like he should have demonstrated that he wanted to win now, and he got plenty of people's hopes up.  Yet here we are, two months removed from when he should have started addressing the team's problems but instead he has sacrificed the season without making any effort to fix the glaring needs.  

 

It's fine by me, I'll tank every game if it means tons of at bats and innings for all the young guys who need to develop, but if he's in the same frame of mind, then he needs to man up and tell the fans that he actually isn't playing for this year.  Letting fans continue to think that this team can win, without putting any effort into actually winning is pretty dirty if you ask me.  I'm not putting that all on Ryan, but it certainly does seem like an illusion to get fans into Target Field.

[DaveW]

And may I add that anyone who advocates removing Ryan now or in the near future needs to have a specific excellent available successor in mind. The only names I've read are Molitor and not Antony.

Why? It's not our job to find the successor. If you give me 1% of the Pohlads cash I will be happy to do a full search.

[Mike Sixel]

What has the GM done to build this team? What players have they acquired in trades or FA that will help? I count three. In 4 years, they have added three players in FA and trades that will help.

[Vanimal46]

And may I add that anyone who advocates removing Ryan now or in the near future needs to have a specific excellent available successor in mind. The only names I've read are Molitor and not Antony.

 

I couldn't give you a list of names, because I'd prefer the eventual successor to come from outside of the Twins circle. There's a list of teams I'd explore poaching someone from:

 

- Cardinals: consistent player development

- Pirates: understanding of mid-market payroll, player development, and seemingly no issues resurrecting re-tread Twins.

- Royals: Division knowledge, aggressive approach

- Rays

- A's

[KidBro]

Gosh, all this time I used to hate other teams for manipulating the system, and acquiring players that help themselves make/win in the playoffs.  Come to find out that's normal......?  Time to rethink some of lifes certancies.  

 

*Are white cotton panties sexier undergarments than something I've never even heard of before?

*Are sandwiches really the best food in the world?

 

Whoa, that's all I can handle right now.

 

 

[DaveW]

Pictured: Terry Ryan talks 1 year/2 mil deal with a veteran FA RP.

 

[jimmer]

 

Thanks for the worthwhile contribution to the thread!

If only this thread's title was more obvious as to the type of conversations that would be going on, and one could see the title and somehow avoid clicking on the thread because they knew they wouldn't like what they'd read.  

 

We really need titles of threads to be more obvious :-)

[howeda7]

Yes. It is time. I've been off the TR bandwagon since 1997. But he was tolerable for a stretch. No longer. As frustrating as doing nothing this year will be, it will be worse in 2016, 17 and 18 as we have a team increasingly capable of going for it. But TR will still hoard his prospects saving for tomorrow. Always tomorrow.

 

However, I have zero confidence in Jim Pohlad or Dave St. Peter to hire his replacement. They've all but declared TR GM for life because they have no clue what to do without him. Ziggy Wilf may be a NJ shyster, but at least we know he won't cling desperately to Rick Spielman or anyone else if they don't win.  .

[howeda7]

I don't think the issues with the 'Twins Way' such as trying to make David Ortiz hit to RF have that much to do with being a GM. I respect TK's eye for talent. I'm not sure I'd want him actually being the GM though.

 

 

TK is half the problem. "Twins way" is mostly his way of doing things. Hard-working, unassuming, over-achiever.

 

I would like to move as far away from the "Twins way" as possible.

 

[SwainZag]

 

This was a great read of the Startribune comments section. Thought I was at the Twins Daily site.....

 

Good luck Linus, this site has become worse than startribune comments, and this is a site that was one of my favorites just a few weeks ago.  It's actually really sad.  I miss BYTO.

 

 

[spinowner]

 

Why? It's not our job to find the successor. If you give me 1% of the Pohlads cash I will be happy to do a full search.

Nor is it your job to fire Ryan but that doesn't stop anyone from advocating for that. I'm just saying that choosing a replacement for Ryan is a far more important decision than deciding to fire him.

[Sweetwater]

Way too soon to say TR needs to go. This team is set up to be good or better for the next 5 years. He's made some bold moves in the off-seasons. Some haven't panned out but that's life. The contender window wasn't even supposed to be open this year and some of y'all are criticizing him for not making moves?? Give him through next year and maybe I'll agree. Our best chance at glory is through Sano, Buxton, and maybe Berrios. Jeez let them come up first. Strike when the iron's hot not lukewarm.

[zchrz]

TR was a good small market, old school GM for a cheap franchise in a cheap division.  Those days are past and so should have Ryan's days as GM.  The seeming embrace of advanced statistics that has been under way with Molitor needs to be strengthened by a like minded GM and overall organizational approach.  Time for the Twins to catch up and compete with the talent that is about to take over.       

[Brock Beauchamp]

To further elaborate on my point, I don't know if there's anyone in baseball I'd rather have stewarding a franchise through a rebuilding effort than Terry Ryan. He's cautious, often to a fault, and never falters from looking years, not days, into the future. The steadier the hand, the better for the organization. Baseball moves at a glacial pace in a world that cannot stand things that aren't torn down and rebuilt in minutes. It takes a certain kind of old-world guy to shrug off that pressure and stick with the plan.

 

But now the Twins are emerging from that phase of the rebuild. They're winning ballgames. While I think it's foolish to bet the farm like the Royals have in 2015, some of the conservative nature needs to be cast aside for more proactive approaches to improving the baseball team. As time passes, we need less conservatism and more aggression as the team improves.

 

I don't know if Terry Ryan is the right guy for that phase of the organization but even if he isn't, I greatly appreciate what he has done for the Twins organization twice now (helped rebuild a horrible franchise into something worth watching).

[big dog]

During spring training there were quite a few posts wishing that the Twins were as aggressive as the Padres, who were making all those huge deals for established players.  The Padres might want to hire TR now as they consider a complete teardown and rebuild, 4 months later.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

During spring training there were quite a few posts wishing that the Twins were as aggressive as the Padres, who were making all those huge deals for established players.  The Padres might want to hire TR now as they consider a complete teardown and rebuild, 4 months later.

People noticed - and praised - the Padres' acquisitions but don't seem to notice how they've bottomed out.

 

And the thing is, what the Padres are doing isn't uncommon. Teams "go all in" all the time and it fails miserably; people just forget it happened.

 

The Blue Jays have taken this approach approximately 14 times in the past 15 years.

 

The Blue Jays haven't made the playoffs since 1993.

 

People need to try to keep their perspective on the situation.

[notoriousgod71]

 

Way too soon to say TR needs to go. This team is set up to be good or better for the next 5 years. He's made some bold moves in the off-seasons. Some haven't panned out but that's life. The contender window wasn't even supposed to be open this year and some of y'all are criticizing him for not making moves?? Give him through next year and maybe I'll agree. Our best chance at glory is through Sano, Buxton, and maybe Berrios. Jeez let them come up first. Strike when the iron's hot not lukewarm.

 

In no other organization would signing Ervin Santana, Ricky Nolasco, and Phil Hughes be considered a bold move. That would be an offseason.

 

I also disagree with it being to soon to say Ryan needs to go. If anything it is a decade too late.

[spinowner]

 

People noticed - and praised - the Padres' acquisitions but don't seem to notice how they've bottomed out.

 

And the thing is, what the Padres are doing isn't uncommon. Teams "go all in" all the time and it fails miserably; people just forget it happened.

 

The Blue Jays have taken this approach approximately 14 times in the past 15 years.

 

The Blue Jays haven't made the playoffs since 1993.

 

People need to try to keep their perspective on the situation.

Bingo. That's why I don't complain about how TR has rebuilt this team. And since the rebuild is not yet complete I don't think it's time to replace him. And I think he deserves a chance to adapt to the modern way of running a good team.

[nicksaviking]

Bingo. That's why I don't complain about how TR has rebuilt this team. And since the rebuild is not yet complete I don't think it's time to replace him. And I think he deserves a chance to adapt to the modern way of running a good team.

It seemed to me that Ryan gave up on the rebuild when he started signing multiple 30+ year olds to the rotation, a 40-year old for RF, picked Suzuki and gave him a boneheaded extension in lieu of giving Pinto a chance, refused to promote the minor league relievers when the vets crapped out, and at minimum supported the decision to remove May from the rotation.

 

Seems pretty easy to see how his actions and inactions might make some folks think the rebuild was over and he was now going for it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

It seemed to me that Ryan gave up on the rebuild when he started signing multiple 30+ year olds to the rotation, a 40-year old for RF, picked Suzuki and gave him a boneheaded extension in lieu of giving Pinto a chance, refused to promote the minor league relievers when the vets crapped out, and at minimum supported the decision to remove May from the rotation.

Seems pretty easy to see how his actions and inactions might make some folks think the rebuild was over and he was now going for it.

I don't understand this argument.

 

Torii Hunter:

Let's rewind back to November of 2014 and talk about the number of legitimate MLB players the Twins had in the outfield:

 

Zero. Yes, zero. The closest guy was Arcia, who can't stay on the field to save his life. They had a lot of potential coming but after the Hicks fiasco, the smartest move a GM can make in that situation is to pick up a vet on a one-year deal until the prospects force their way onto the roster permanently. If anything, Ryan should be criticized for not doing this in 2013/14, not criticized for finally taking the right approach.

 

Kurt Suzuki:

Let's rewind to July of 2014 and talk about the number of legitimate MLB players the Twins had at catcher:

 

Zero. This number seems to be a recurring theme. Pinto was not, and is not, an MLB catcher. Suzuki was a middling insurance policy and I'm sure Ryan hoped Pinto would force his way into the conversation. That hasn't happened. Could the Twins have picked up a better veteran instead of Suzuki? Possibly, but Kurt was a known quantity on a team that didn't have any good options at the position. One can say "signing this player would have been better" and I might agree but signing Suzuki was in no way a stupid or idiotic move.

 

30+ year old starters:

The only starting pitcher signing that has really excited me in the past half decade is Phil Hughes. That was a savvy signing and a great move. Santana and Nolasco were midding moves, IMO, but the team was so bad in previous seasons that something needed to be done. I would have preferred a single, higher upside, pitcher but that's me. Again, moves I don't really love but I'm not going to skewer Ryan for making them. I'll take a gamble on Nolasco or Santana any day of the week over the previous dumpster signings of Correia and Pelfrey. It appears Ryan learned his lesson at some point because he stopped trying to sign the Kevin Correias of the world. It took way too long to get to that point but at least we're past it now.

 

My biggest problem is the Twins' refusal to move past these players once another option presented itself but I won't fault Ryan for making the move in the first place because in most cases, the moves were made when the Twins had no other viable options at the respective positions.

[Otto von Ballpark]

People noticed - and praised - the Padres' acquisitions but don't seem to notice how they've bottomed out.

 

@ the thing is, what the Padres are doing isn't uncommon. Teams "go all in" all the time and it fails miserably; people just forget it happened.

 

The Blue Jays have taken this approach approximately 14 times in the past 15 years.

 

The Blue Jays haven't made the playoffs since 1993.

 

People need to try to keep their perspective on the situation.

People praised the Matt Kemp deal? Trading Trea Turner to put Wil Myers in CF? The Melvin BJ Upton trade?

 

I think people were impressed by the Padres' aggressiveness, but I don't know that there was a whole lot of praise involved. Or what praise there was (Norris, Shields, the better Upton, etc) was fully balanced by more iffy moves.

 

I don't think the Jays have gone "all in" that frequently either. The Dickey trade was big, but ultimately for a pretty modest contract. The Reyes part of the Marlins deal was big, but the rest of the deal pretty modest too (like Buehrle). And the FA deals for AJ Burnett and BJ Ryan only seem "all in" compared to Metrodome-era Twins spending.

 

Honestly, outside Reyes/Tulo, the Jays general approach hasn't been much "bigger" than TR in free agency the past couple winters.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

People praised the Matt Kemp deal? Trading Trea Turner to put Wil Myers in CF? The Melvin BJ Upton trade?

I think people were impressed by the Padres' aggressiveness, but I don't know that there was a whole lot of praise involved. Or what praise there was (Norris, Shields, the better Upton, etc) was fully balanced by more iffy moves.

I don't think the Jays have gone "all in" that frequently either. The Dickey trade was big, but ultimately for a pretty modest contract. The Reyes part of the Marlins deal was big, but the rest of the deal pretty modest too (like Buehrle). And the FA deals for AJ Burnett and BJ Ryan only seem "all in" compared to Metrodome-era Twins spending.

Honestly, outside Reyes/Tulo, the Jays general approach hasn't been much "bigger" than TR in free agency the past couple winters.

I was being sarcastic about the Jays. They've made some really questionable moves over the years in the name of "making the playoffs" but it's far from every season. It also never works out for them.

 

But I applaud their Tulo acquisition. This might be the year they finally make the playoffs and good for them.

[USAFChief]

I don't understand this argument.

 

Torii Hunter:

Let's rewind back to November of 2014 and talk about the number of legitimate MLB players the Twins had in the outfield:

 

Zero. Yes, zero. The closest guy was Arcia, who can't stay on the field to save his life. They had a lot of potential coming but after the Hicks fiasco, the smartest move a GM can make in that situation is to pick up a vet on a one-year deal until the prospects force their way onto the roster permanently. If anything, Ryan should be criticized for not doing this in 2013/14, not criticized for finally taking the right approach.

 

Kurt Suzuki:

Let's rewind to July of 2014 and talk about the number of legitimate MLB players the Twins had at catcher:

 

Zero. This number seems to be a recurring theme. Pinto was not, and is not, an MLB catcher. Suzuki was a middling insurance policy and I'm sure Ryan hoped Pinto would force his way into the conversation. That hasn't happened. Could the Twins have picked up a better veteran instead of Suzuki? Possibly, but Kurt was a known quantity on a team that didn't have any good options at the position. One can say "signing this player would have been better" and I might agree but signing Suzuki was in no way a stupid or idiotic move.

 

30+ year old starters:

The only starting pitcher signing that has really excited me in the past half decade is Phil Hughes. That was a savvy signing and a great move. Santana and Nolasco were midding moves, IMO, but the team was so bad in previous seasons that something needed to be done. I would have preferred a single, higher upside, pitcher but that's me. Again, moves I don't really love but I'm not going to skewer Ryan for making them. I'll take a gamble on Nolasco or Santana any day of the week over the previous dumpster signings of Correia and Pelfrey. It appears Ryan learned his lesson at some point because he stopped trying to sign the Kevin Correias of the world. It took way too long to get to that point but at least we're past it now.

 

My biggest problem is the Twins' refusal to move past these players once another option presented itself but I won't fault Ryan for making the move in the first place because in most cases, the moves were made when the Twins had no other viable options at the respective positions.

I applaud trying to win, too.

 

But I think the point being made was, these moves are made by a GM trying to win, not the moves of a GM committed to a rebuild.

 

I actually prefer the former..."rebuilds" are mostly a fantasy clung to by fans of teams that can't find a way to win. They seldom work. So I give credit to Ryan for finding a 40 yr old to play RF, because they had nobody better. But that's not rebuilding. And I don't give him a lot of credit, because a team shouldn't be in the position of having zero big league outfielders in the first place.

[TKGuy]

This gets old every year, bash, bash. TR will make a move and then bash for giving up too much. Could you imagine the meltdown if we gave up 4 of our top 10 prospects for anyone? Last time I checked, we are 1 game ahead in WC standings after 100 games, just what everyone called at the beginning of the year, right?

 

Only thing missing is Mauer needs to catch again and Pohlads are cheap. One of our best starting pitchers star stole for Sam Fuld for goodness sake. We signed Dozier for cheap and saved big $$$ on his arb years. We've brought up both Buxton and Sano prior to when anyone thought we would.

 

Jeesh, I'm tickled that we have meaningful baseball in August.

 

Plus, the deadline is still over 24 hours away