Lackluster Performance Puts Carlos Correa in Running for the AL's Least Valuable Player

Kinda harsh.  Correa is trending up. He raised his average 25 points the last three or 4 weeks.  If his average was .260 just 35 more points his line would be down but not out of range of expectations.  His power numbers are still in line with his career.  So let’s give him a break if it’s the injury causing this.  

Injury or no, I think he's still playing excellent in the field at least. I'm not rushing to defend him; he's being paid to be a superstar and team leader; pretty hard to do that when you're struggling for half a season at the plate. But there are some signs of improvement there. 

Correa isn't even close to the least valuable player on the Twins, let alone the entire American League.

44 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

It's fun how you pick Correa for lvp when the other 3 players you list all have negative fwar and he doesn't.

Hopefully he is feeling better from his plantar fasciitis asap. I'd imagine his numbers will course correct over time. 

As someone who has suffered plantar fasciitis it is extremely painful and can take YEARS to heal.  I'm 6'-5" and a runner.  I developed fascitis a few years ago and it took me almost 2 years to get rid of it. 

1 hour ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

It's fun how you pick Correa for lvp when the other 3 players you list all have negative fwar and he doesn't.

Hopefully he is feeling better from his plantar fasciitis asap. I'd imagine his numbers will course correct over time. 

Correa is performing -4.9 in fWAR.  The others are -2. He's under performing almost 2.5 as bad as everyone else on the list. Correa is also making $33.3M this year... The others (Abreu $19.5M, Anderson $12.5M, and Hernandez $10M) aren't sniffing that kind of money.  When you take the performance and couple that with the extreme amount he's being paid for what we get, he's absolutely the LVP on this list.

18 minutes ago, HokieRif said:

Correa is performing -4.9 in fWAR.  The others are -2. He's under performing almost 2.5 as bad as everyone else on the list. Correa is also making $33.3M this year... The others (Abreu $19.5M, Anderson $12.5M, and Hernandez $10M) aren't sniffing that kind of money.  When you take the performance and couple that with the extreme amount he's being paid for what we get, he's absolutely the LVP on this list.

The 5.9 was a projection for the year not actual.  2.  We are only half way through the season.  3 at his price break even is 3.5 WAR.  He is on track for 2.0. Yes below value but also time enough to close the gap considerably.  And he is trending up.

Absolutely make the complaint he hasn’t performed to standards. Even he would defend your arguments to some degree. But to say least valuable is over doing it by a mile.

29 minutes ago, HokieRif said:

Correa is performing -4.9 in fWAR.  The others are -2. He's under performing almost 2.5 as bad as everyone else on the list. Correa is also making $33.3M this year... The others (Abreu $19.5M, Anderson $12.5M, and Hernandez $10M) aren't sniffing that kind of money.  When you take the performance and couple that with the extreme amount he's being paid for what we get, he's absolutely the LVP on this list.

First, you're reading something wrong. Correa has 1.0 fWAR

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Second, by that logic Mike Trout and Aaron Judge shouldn't win an MVP because they make too much money to be valuable. Only minimum salary All-Stars would win the award.

56 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

First, you're reading something wrong. Correa has 1.0 fWAR

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Second, by that logic Mike Trout and Aaron Judge shouldn't win an MVP because they make too much money to be valuable. Only minimum salary All-Stars would win the award.

Furious typing mistake on my part - he’s performing 4.9 fWAR below his projected 5.9 fWAR. That’s how I’m getting to him performing roughly 2.5x worse than the others relative to their projections.  
 

whatever the case - he’s having a miserable season and is being way overpaid for what he is delivering on the field. 

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

First, you're reading something wrong. Correa has 1.0 fWAR

Minnesota Twins Leaderboards » 2023 » Batters » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

Second, by that logic Mike Trout and Aaron Judge shouldn't win an MVP because they make too much money to be valuable. Only minimum salary All-Stars would win the award.

Mike Trout and Aaron Judge should not win MVP--because they are not valuable in the sense that they are getting paid more or less appropriately for how they are producing.  They should win outstanding player awards, but value brings salary into the equation--Trout is 3rd among hitters in salary and Judge is 1st.  In WAR, Trout is 16th and Judge is 27th.  In the AL, Wander Franco is probably the MVP; 5th overall in WAR and costs $2.5M.  You could also go with Garcia at 9th overall in WAR and only $750k in salary.

In fact, you could have Franco, Robert, Garcia, Ramirez, and Heim on your roster for $27M and have 17.6 WAR (Trout is 3.1 and Judge is 2.8) and still have more than $10M left when compared to Trout or Judge.

15 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Mike Trout and Aaron Judge should not win MVP--because they are not valuable in the sense that they are getting paid more or less appropriately for how they are producing.  They should win outstanding player awards, but value brings salary into the equation--Trout is 3rd among hitters in salary and Judge is 1st.  In WAR, Trout is 16th and Judge is 27th.  In the AL, Wander Franco is probably the MVP; 5th overall in WAR and costs $2.5M.  You could also go with Garcia at 9th overall in WAR and only $750k in salary.

In fact, you could have Franco, Robert, Garcia, Ramirez, and Heim on your roster for $27M and have 17.6 WAR (Trout is 3.1 and Judge is 2.8) and still have more than $10M left when compared to Trout or Judge.

I disagree completely. Value is all about how much the player helped his team win. What the player is paid is irrelevant to the discussion.

Here are the MVP voting instructions:

Quote

(1) actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense; (2) number of games played; (3) general character, disposition, loyalty and effort; (4) former winners are eligible; and (5) members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.

They don't have a (6) how little the player is paid because of MLB service time rules

42 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I disagree completely. Value is all about how much the player helped his team win. What the player is paid is irrelevant to the discussion.

Here are the MVP voting instructions:

They don't have a (6) how little the player is paid because of MLB service time rules

All fine for you to think that, but a player that costs less while still producing does help his team win by leaving payroll space available to get other players.  Part of why the Angels are closing in on a decade since their last playoff appearance is because they've been paying 2-3 players $50M-$80M for the last decade, leaving them no space to build up a better supporting cast.  Those expensive players soaking up the payroll have therefore not been valuable, since their presence impeded the overall team being better.

Yeah. But I still don’t think he ranks high on the list of issues (at least longer-term) with this club.

Admittedly, that’s based on a belief that the hitting will come back close to career norms, which is no guarantee. Fwiw, BABiP is way below career norms…and it matches the eye test, IMO. 

1 hour ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

All fine for you to think that, but a player that costs less while still producing does help his team win by leaving payroll space available to get other players.  Part of why the Angels are closing in on a decade since their last playoff appearance is because they've been paying 2-3 players $50M-$80M for the last decade, leaving them no space to build up a better supporting cast.  Those expensive players soaking up the payroll have therefore not been valuable, since their presence impeded the overall team being better.

Steve Cohen should have put an end to that line of thinking this offseason. The Angels have not been held back one bit because of Trout's paycheck. They have been held back because the Angels front office has been selecting the wrong players for his supporting cast.

The rules for the MVP voting don't mention anything about production per dollar, just how good a player is on offense and defense. I would vote for MVP (and by corollary LVP) based on the rules, not on your alternate criteria.

It's pretty clear to me the least valuable player for the Twins has been Jose Miranda.

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

They aren't winning anything with him and Buxton playing this way. 

And Rendon wouldn't help much either IMHO.

2 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

All fine for you to think that, but a player that costs less while still producing does help his team win by leaving payroll space available to get other players.  Part of why the Angels are closing in on a decade since their last playoff appearance is because they've been paying 2-3 players $50M-$80M for the last decade, leaving them no space to build up a better supporting cast.  Those expensive players soaking up the payroll have therefore not been valuable, since their presence impeded the overall team being better.

That's more value to the franchise and its bottom line, not more value on the field. 

7 hours ago, Brandon said:

Kinda harsh.  Correa is trending up. He raised his average 25 points the last three or 4 weeks.  If his average was .260 just 35 more points his line would be down but not out of range of expectations.  His power numbers are still in line with his career.  So let’s give him a break if it’s the injury causing this.  

Is he, or did he just have a 4 hit game against KC? 

His OPS by month:

April .634

May .730

June .735

July .696

Obviously that July number is subject to change, but whichever way you want to slice it (3 weeks or 4 weeks) he has a sub .700 OPS in the time frame and it certainly isn't just the OBP dragging it down. That's not close to being in line with his .825 career mark. 

Ouch.  At least Correa still makes plays look easy at shortstop.   

Obviously the medical staff in SF and NY saw things the medical staff that the Twins did not.  That money should have been spent on a #1/2 starter and the Twins would have an all star that would easily been the face of the franchise and leader this team is lacking.  They wanted a “big name” but certainly not a leader for the LVP.  It is nice for those who keep saying he will turn it around. 

8 hours ago, Brandon said:

The 5.9 was a projection for the year not actual.  2.  We are only half way through the season.  3 at his price break even is 3.5 WAR.  He is on track for 2.0. Yes below value but also time enough to close the gap considerably.  And he is trending up.

Absolutely make the complaint he hasn’t performed to standards. Even he would defend your arguments to some degree. But to say least valuable is over doing it by a mile.

Fair point. I think I'd give Tim Anderson and his -1.1 fWAR the award if it based strictly off performance and expectations are not taken into account.

Enrique Hernandez of the BoSox, with -1.3 fWAR, would be my runner up.

I give Anderson the leg up (or is it down?) due to the AL Central being very winnable, meanwhile the BoSox are chasing comparable titans in the AL East.

Unlike Mr. Buxton, who is providing zero defensive value and has similar offensive stats, Correa seems to be really solid at a premium position.

There is much lower hanging fruit on the bit#&h list.

1 hour ago, Doctor Evil said:

Unlike Mr. Buxton, who is providing zero defensive value and has similar offensive stats, Correa seems to be really solid at a premium position.

There is much lower hanging fruit on the bit#&h list.

Thanks for your enlightened diagnosis, Doctor.  For my money, Byron has been the LVTwin.  Time to start saying it out loud.  Byron is not going to have the career we had hoped.  Not even close.  Constantly injured, no defense, clogging up the DH flexibility.  I'm empathetic in his regard, (I so want him to be great) but very frustrated and running out of patience as a fan.