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  • Kenta Maeda's Discouraging Spring


    Cody Pirkl

    Kenta Maeda will be 35 years old shortly after the season starts and is coming off of Tommy John surgery. While spring training numbers are to be taken with a grain of salt, should Maeda’s spring performance carry any weight?

    Image courtesy of William Parmeter

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    Kenta Maeda is roughly a year and a half removed from Tommy John surgery after getting the procedure done in September 2021. He reportedly could have returned last season had the Twins been in contention. This assurance suggested that Maeda would be at full strength to begin 2023, but his performance this spring has been far from encouraging. Is Maeda worth worrying about at this point?

    Maeda has publicly taken any opportunity to get back into the pitching routine this spring, sometimes even taking road trips that veterans usually pass up to make a scheduled start. There have been no reports of lingering issues with the elbow, but the performance so far is worrisome. In four outings, Maeda has thrown 9 2/3 innings and allowed six runs. He has nine strikeouts and seven walks, leading to an unsightly 1.86 WHIP.

    In addition to the uncharacteristic lack of control, the velocity has yet to return for Maeda. In his Cy Young runner-up 2020, he only averaged 91.6 on the heater. This declined to 90.6 in a less effective 2021. In Sunday’s start against Atlanta, Maeda averaged 89.6 on the four-seam as he allowed five runs in four innings. Typically spring numbers can be tossed aside altogether, especially following a season missed with injury. In Maeda’s case, there could be some slightly bigger red flags, unfortunately.

    At Maeda’s age, the often-performed Tommy John surgery carries more risk that his arm doesn’t bounce back to pre-injury levels. Maeda was already showing signs of decline in 2021 prior to the injury. He put up a 4.66 ERA in 106 innings pitched in 2021, a far cry from the rotation-leading starting pitcher the Twins were hoping for after 2020. It’s possible the elbow had been barking at him all season, but if any of his struggles were a result of natural decline, the two years off since then certainly wouldn’t help.

    It is possible that Maeda just has to get some feel back in regard to his command and control. The problem is that at his best, he seemed to use pinpoint accuracy to take advantage of hitters. If that skillset takes time and in-game experience to return, the results in the meantime could get ugly if Maeda is also missing his best stuff. It sets up a difficult situation for the Twins to try to handle.

    It’s hard to imagine the Twins not slotting Maeda into the Opening Day rotation, but it’s fair to wonder how long he would be allowed to struggle should his spring performance carry into the season. It’s entirely possible this spring is a blip on the radar, but for once the Twins have starting pitching depth. Not only has Bailey Ober staked his claim to a rotation spot, but good performances from Louie Varland or Simeon Woods Richardson in St. Paul could fast-track them back to the MLB after 2022 debuts.

    Maeda’s contract is also incredibly incentive-laden, particularly based on starts made. It’s safe to assume that given their alternative options for the rotation, the Twins wouldn’t allow Maeda to hit too many of his quantity-related incentives if the quality isn’t there. It’s possible that even if he struggles to return to the rotation he could still provide value out of the bullpen at this stage of his career.

    Maeda remains a question mark for the 2023 Twins season and carries a fair amount of upside despite what we’ve seen so far this spring. The hope is that he can take a rotation spot on Opening Day and be a mainstay in the upcoming season. With his age, he’s not likely to have a hard innings cap following his elbow surgery and should be able to pitch as his body allows so long as he’s doing so effectively. That being said, it’s safe to say the lack of velocity and control he’s shown so far isn’t what Twins fans hope to see when the games start to count. While the Twins may bet on improvements, don’t expect them to show too much patience given the depth they have and the possibility that Maeda doesn’t have a massive bounce back in him.

    Does Maeda’s performance so far this spring raise any red flags given his injury and age? Should we wait until the season to have any concerns? Let us know below!

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    The first year back from Tommy John RARELY results in a solid season.  35 yrs old and Tommy John surgery and half of TD thinks he should be written in INK ......as one of the top starting 5.  This is why Ober should be there ......and Maeda should be slowly brought along.   We can't (and shouldn't) cut Maeda,  But expecting him to be like he was a couple years ago....... just isn't reasonable.  I am still hopeful he CAN get back to that level later in the year!

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    I think this will carry into the season but I think he will improve as the season progresses.  He probably should start the season in the pen so Ober can start.  The pen will also be where he can also at it out and hopefully increase his velocity some.  I’m still expecting around 100-120 innings of 4.00 to 4.5 ERA type of season.  Hopefully his control improves cause he really needs that if his stuff is slower.

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    It would be difficult for Maeda to be in the BP and expect him to work towards starting because he wouldn’t get the innings needed to stretch himself out. My guess is, unless he is awful between now and the season opener, they will have him starting and have long relievers ready. If he isn’t cutting it after four starts he is in the BP and Ober is inserted as a starter. Otherwise just keep him in the BP and start Ober.

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    Usually when a pitcher returns from TJ surgery, they get most or all of their velocity back and Maeda is close to that, but what lags is the command. If Kenta is not putting the ball close to exactly where he wants, his stuff becomes very hittable. That seems to be the case so far. 

    He looks like the fifth starter on this squad and I don't think his leash will be very long. I wouldn't want to make too many final judgments based on spring training results, however.

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    He hasn't pitched in so long, this shouldn't have come as a shock.  Besides learning how the new elbow works, the rust from such a long layoff will take some time to break free.  Guys like Verlander coming back strong are rare, so this really shouldn't come as a shock.  

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    I thought Spring Training is a place for players to show their skills to the front office and managerial staff who decide how build a team out of those players.   Maeda has shown that his skills are not back to what they were.   Put him in the pen and start Bailey Ober. 
    Now - What about Tyler Mahle?   

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    When it comes to Maeda I would say I am concerned but not panicked just yet.  Spring training makes it tough to gauge where guys are at.  I believe every starter except maybe Pablo had a tough spring outing and couldn't finish innings and had to come back in later in the game and or let more runs score than they would have liked.

    Right now Mahle has had the same control\velocity problem as Maeda and he isn't in this article.  When real games start they will have a detailed plan for how they want him to attack hitters etc.  I just think it is too early to draw any "major" conclusions on Maeda.

    I will say I agree with others that TJ takes time to come back from so concerns are legit but let's wait until the season starts and he airs it out more before getting too bent out of shape.  He gets one more spring start and it looks like the pitchers are honing in for the season as both Gray and Ryan had really good games their last time out.  Let's see how he does in his last spring start.

    The thing I like about Maeda is he is someone willing to bet on himself and fair minded enough to only want to get paid for the production he provides.  He knows he needs to perform to reach those incentives and you know he is going to work hard to get there.  Will his body\arm cooperate? That is the unknown right now but I know he will do everything he can to succeed. I for one am not gonna bet against a very disciplined and detail oriented player even if the odds might not be in his favor.

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    In the Covid year, Maeda was brand new in the American League. Nobody knew him, so he dominated!  Don't expect what you saw that year. NOBODY was ready to play in that Covid year - pitchers or hitters. The hitters were barely "hitting" by the end of the 60 games.  The Covid year was not normal for anyone!

    We were at that Twins/Braves game in Ft. Myers. He's working on his pitches. He is not a fast-ball pitcher.  He never was!  It's Spring Training!  Coming off Tommy John, why would you go "max effort" in a Spring Training game? Why are your expectations so high? 

    Maeda is a "Number 3 pitcher," like ALL of the Twins' pitchers.     

     

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    I'm more than willing to give him a handful of starts in the regular season, and see what happens. Is it possible that he struggles? Sure, but let's make that decision down the road a bit. For now, it's a concern, but not overwhelmingly so. If he gets killed in his first 4-5 starts, then you have to pull him and get Ober, or someone else in there. I'm just as concerned with Mahle, as I am with Maeda. We've got some depth on the staff, but we still have some question marks right now.

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    The main concern for me is the lack of control this spring. I don't know if he's trying to work on throwing or gripping a little different as many guys do, or if he just hasn't got the feel back. I would guess he will get at least 4-5 starts to see if there is some improvement. Otherwise, they will move him into the pen or IL him.

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    Maeda's elbow is fine, that's not the problem. Maeda has always had the stuff but not the arm so he's limited in how many innings he can pitch & how fast he can throw. That's part of the reason why LAD put him in the pen to gain extra velo. For the Twins, '20 was the perfect storm for Maeda.

    For someone who doesn't have the velo, control has more importance. Pitchers coming back from TJ, control is their biggest hurdle. Plus 1 &1/2 years absence, there's a lot of rust. Also with control problems you get behind, then you slow down & serve a meatball over the plate.  What's the best solution? Should he be put in the BP? Should he be sent down to AAA? One solution IMO isn't placing him in the rotation waiting for him to find himself, which could take quite awhile. 

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    1 hour ago, MABB1959 said:

    Seems like we got the short end of the stick on this trade with LA.

    Why? Maeda was great for us in 2020 and we needed him. Graterol has been a good but not great relief pitcher. (nothing else in the deal really mattered; Raley is out of the Dodgers system and Tanner Dodson doesn't look like anything...certainly not any better than Carmago)

    both teams got what they wanted, but I'd still trade relievers for starters every time. 

    We'll see on Maeda. I expect him to be the 5th starter now, not the staff leader and it's always hard to know with spring training numbers because guys are sometimes just working on stuff. I would guess that absent an early injury, he's the guy who might miss a turn early in the season when we don't need that 5th guy. Maybe he'll be able to sharpen it back up with a few more games under his belt, or maybe he gets pushed into the bullpen in favor of Ober, Varland, or Woods Richardson. It is one of the nice things about the way the rotation is shaping up this season is there's no need to keep someone in there on scholarship. the depth isn't just for injuries.

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    Of course we should be at least a little concerned.  He should start season in the bullpen in mop up roles at first, until he gets his game back in order.  If he handled it fine.  If not, cut him loose.  If he has to be released don't let him just hang on.  Remember, he is a free agent at seasons end and he is 35 year old pitcher coming off Tommy John.  Doesn't appear to be a long term asset, just saying.  It's always so strange this spring training.  If a player is having a great spring training and is released they say he's only playing against others in spring training.  When a player has a bad spring, especially for veterans, they say it's only spring training.  Spring training surely isn't what it used to be.

     

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    The easiest option for everyone is for Kenta to start the season on the IL and Ober to be in the starting rotation. We have likely seen the end of the dominant version of Maeda, and while that’s a bummer, the team can’t be held back because of it.

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    Kenta has thrown 9.2 innings, Ober 6. It is 100% ridiculous to draw any conclusions on either from that data. Both are coming back from injury damaged seasons. Both will need time off this year to be as healthy as possible for the hopefully long playoff run. 

    And no, the Twins didn't get hosed in the Maeda trade. He and Graterol have provided roughly the same number of good innings for their teams since. 

    All that being said, I do think the Twins will want Maeda as a relief ace toward the end of the summer, but because he's actually been good at it. And it would be a smart move for him for the end of his career. 

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    2 hours ago, strumdatjag said:

    Put him in the pen and start Bailey Ober. 
    Now - What about Tyler Mahle?   

    Exactly.  There is no reason based on recent results on the mound that Ober does not break camp as the fifth, and possibly the fourth, starter.  Let’s keep an eye on our FO and coaching staff to see when they get smarts and courage to move Ober in and one of Mahle or Maeda out.
     

    Btw, Arraez was traded because both Mahle and Maeda were looking more than iffy. 

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    IMO, it doesn't matter if he is named the starter or not (except for his incentives) it is likely going to take multiple starts for him to be considered a sure fire 5/6 inning pitcher so the Twins should be prepared by having another pitcher on the roster they feel comfortable pitching 3 innings (Ober?) He should be treated like Archer last year even if he is doing great after 4 pull him put Ober in for 3 innings for at least a few starts until he can prove he is close to his old self. I think the Twins should be prepared that he could go 3 or 4 innings and give up 4 runs and the solution to that shouldn't be running 4 or 5 1 innings guys out there.

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    Maybe Maeda should get the same treatment as Polanco and Kirilloff and, soon, Lewis: rehab in the minors until everything looks just so and the weather warms up. It would be a huge boost to have Ober start the year with the Twins, anyway, given how he looks right now.

    I don't have much confidence that this will happen, unfortunately.

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    Thanks for the article. The SP depth means, as mentioned, that he's on a short leash. Hard to say, though, how long that leash might be until we see him pitch when it counts. Good to know Ober's ready and willing and probably the better choice. Maeda has earned the right to show Baldelli what he has but it's very possible he might be the first pitcher this year to go down.

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    2 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

    Why? Maeda was great for us in 2020 and we needed him. Graterol has been a good but not great relief pitcher. (nothing else in the deal really mattered; Raley is out of the Dodgers system and Tanner Dodson doesn't look like anything...certainly not any better than Carmago)

    both teams got what they wanted, but I'd still trade relievers for starters every time. 

    We'll see on Maeda. I expect him to be the 5th starter now, not the staff leader and it's always hard to know with spring training numbers because guys are sometimes just working on stuff. I would guess that absent an early injury, he's the guy who might miss a turn early in the season when we don't need that 5th guy. Maybe he'll be able to sharpen it back up with a few more games under his belt, or maybe he gets pushed into the bullpen in favor of Ober, Varland, or Woods Richardson. It is one of the nice things about the way the rotation is shaping up this season is there's no need to keep someone in there on scholarship. the depth isn't just for injuries.

    Shouldn't they have seen the almost 2 years injury coming?

    Maeda:  2020 played in 11 games with a 2.70 ERA.   2021 played in 21 games (4.66 ERA).  2022 0 games, 2023 Spring Training played in 4 games (5.59 ERA)

    Graterol:  2020 played in 23 games with a 3.09 ERA.  2021 played in 34 games (4.59 ERA) and 2022 played in 46 games (3.26 ERA).  Spring Training 2023 6 games (0.00 ERA)

    Maeda:  32 games

    Graterol: 103 games

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    5 hours ago, Otaknam said:

    It would be difficult for Maeda to be in the BP and expect him to work towards starting because he wouldn’t get the innings needed to stretch himself out. My guess is, unless he is awful between now and the season opener, they will have him starting and have long relievers ready. If he isn’t cutting it after four starts he is in the BP and Ober is inserted as a starter. Otherwise just keep him in the BP and start Ober.

    He would get built up for 2-3 innings in the pen and his first 2 or 3 starts would be of the 3-5 innings variety.

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    1 hour ago, MABB1959 said:

    Shouldn't they have seen the almost 2 years injury coming?

    Maeda:  2020 played in 11 games with a 2.70 ERA.   2021 played in 21 games (4.66 ERA).  2022 0 games, 2023 Spring Training played in 4 games (5.59 ERA)

    Graterol:  2020 played in 23 games with a 3.09 ERA.  2021 played in 34 games (4.59 ERA) and 2022 played in 46 games (3.26 ERA).  Spring Training 2023 6 games (0.00 ERA)

    Maeda:  32 games

    Graterol: 103 games

    Games played is a ridiculous metric to use when comping a starter against a reliever. And I'm sorry, including spring training stats from 2023 is meaningless. Graterol has only thrown 106 innings since the deal to Maeda's 173. is that a fair comparison?

    They took a risk on the potential injury. It paid off in 2020 and crapped out in 2021. But we desperately needed a starter in 2020 and because we had Maeda in the rotation that year we won the division. (we would not have won the division with Graterol replacing Maeda on the roster) BTW, Graterol was on the injured list twice last season, missed time for injury in 2021...shouldn't the Dodgers have seen that coming?

    Graterol is a nice reliever, but hardly game-changing. To put him into context, Graterol in 2022 (Probably his best season as a pro, when you consider health, effectiveness, and production) was much more than Griffin Jax. Graterol had a bit better FIP & ERA+, Jax pitched more innings, had a better K/9 and contributed more bWAR. Their WPA (a useful tool for comparing relievers) was basically even.

    The injury may end meaning the deal wasn't as great as it could have been for the Twins, but they hardly got taken for a ride. You have to give up something to get something, and in the pandemic season Maeda pitched like the ace people on this board keep screaming for.

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    3 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

    Exactly.  There is no reason based on recent results on the mound that Ober does not break camp as the fifth, and possibly the fourth, starter.  Let’s keep an eye on our FO and coaching staff to see when they get smarts and courage to move Ober in and one of Mahle or Maeda out.
     

    Btw, Arraez was traded because both Mahle and Maeda were looking more than iffy. 

    He was also traded because Ober has topped 100 innings once in his professional career. The recent results show he's nowhere near throwing 80+ pitches in a start. I'd say that's at least a decent reason for why he doesn't break camp as the fifth, let alone fourth, starter. 

    Ober has looked great in very short stints this spring. He's too talented for AAA. But we can't act like he's shown any ability to simply be plugged into a rotation and be counted on to provide consistent innings. We were all mad about the short starts last year wearing down the pen so I'm not sure why we'd want them to put a guy out there that we known can't go deep into a game yet. Ober as a piggyback on Maeda early? Now that's a different story. But handing Ober a spot in the rotation when you can't expect him to go more than 4 innings in a start early doesn't seem like a great option to me.

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    2 hours ago, rv78 said:

    Very possible that he's toast. Done. Won't ever regain his former self or worth as a pitcher.  Who's next? Mahle?

    Are you suggesting Mahle might be next for being "toast?" Feels awfully extreme.

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    5 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

    Shouldn't they have seen the almost 2 years injury coming?

    Maeda:  2020 played in 11 games with a 2.70 ERA.   2021 played in 21 games (4.66 ERA).  2022 0 games, 2023 Spring Training played in 4 games (5.59 ERA)

    Graterol:  2020 played in 23 games with a 3.09 ERA.  2021 played in 34 games (4.59 ERA) and 2022 played in 46 games (3.26 ERA).  Spring Training 2023 6 games (0.00 ERA)

    Maeda:  32 games

    Graterol: 103 games

    Spring training games against AAA and AA batter for Graterol. Not numbers to get overly excited about. Context is important

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