Can The Twins Win With Dozier And Mauer?

I don't mean to derail discussion about the premise of the post, but shouldn't the question be "Can the Twins win with the so called core 4"?  Dozier and Mauer of the last few seasons (Brian's career year last year not withstanding) are not players you build a championship team around. They are just along for the ride next year ( and possibly beyond).

There are plenty of questions surrounding those 4 core players that need to be answered,  the biggest of which is Buxton going to be a superstar or just a nice player.  The next biggest is Berrios an Ace/strong#2, or a #3 pitcher.  the answers to those 2 things will go a long ways towards determining if the Twins can really become a championship caliber team.

Mr. Dozier may be frustrated but the team had more more than a few chances to show they were worth making moves for and they failed.

Too many runners left on base in winnable games was, I think, the difference between buying and selling.

The stats above show exactly why Dozier would not work in the middle of the lineup. This year, for the third straight year he going on his annual statistical binge when it is least needed. Two years ago he flatlined during the heat of the 2nd WC hunt. Last year he awoke about the time the team was statistically eliminated. The fact that this was at the ASG break is irrelevant. And this year he has been pretty low key during his teams rise, albeit temporarily, to the top of the division. Needless to say upon the waving of that "white flag" he has again went on a meaningless tear.

Yes.

The Twins simply were not good enough to "go for it".  Most every year some team overplays their talent and has a record for the first portion of the season that is better than it should be. However, even a cursory look at the Twins 2017 run differential showed that this team was nearer to the bottom of the league than being an above 500 ball club and division leader, even in a weak division.  

THe Twins have a handful of guys that figure over the long run, but their roster is far from complete.  They fooled themselves this season by pretending that they were better than they were and because of that we are going to pay the price of not bringing up players like Mitch Garver and a lot of pitching prospects because they are going to have to get their major league adjustments in future years, costing the team losses in those years that they should have incurred in 2017.

Brian Dozier has unfortunately been part of an organization that had management stall their rebuild by clinging to the "Twins Way" despite the need to radically rebuild from scratch.  

It's a shame the Pohlads, Ryan and co never actually tried to win a title during Mauer's tenure here.
The guy is easily one of the 5 best players in Franchise History and helped lead the team to several playoff berths. He is a future hall of famer, him not success in the playoffs is a true waste of amazing talent.

I few Dozier is a somewhat similar but not nearly as tragic way.

Not True.  They did try in 2010--but failed.  The failure to develop top pitching internally proved their undoing--considering they were never going to spend to the level necessary to actually buy it.

In fact that development failure continued and when they did start to buy pitching--well you know the rest.

I mean, the FO decided to buy initially and the team responded by completely going into the tank.

It would have been foolish, IMO, to throw good assets after bad once it went from long shot but doable, to microscopic shot.

It surprises me that Dozier doesn't seem to have the self awareness to realize that, he seems like a bright guy.

I get the frustration, but if he must, he should focus it towards himself and the rest of the locker room where it belongs.

Yes, the front office did buy a couple of years back. Maybe not the best use of monies, but they did spend money. Not sure what the purpose is...just to look to be competitive or what.

Comes back to Target Field, the most beautiful stadium in baseball. The Twins ahd a given for the first couple of seasons where the stadium sold the tickets (and they sure did their best to use the stadium to sell tickets). And the baseball experience, once the product on the field is made whole, can be truly beauitiful.

The new stadium was supposed to make the Twins competitive in the free agent market, and also able to spend money to keep their own under contract.

Name the splashes they made on the free agent market.

Name the home-grown talent that walked away to other teams.

See the front office cry because they truly did want a winning team, selling out the stadium constantly, so they could really jack tickets, instead of the nickle and diming they are doing for select games and sections right now...squeeze that lump of coal and you'll get something...maybe.

So maybe we all can afford to go to a Twins game because they haven;t been that god,really. And even that bit of light a couple of years back...like this year...barely creeping above the .500 mark and with the added wildcard, you can almost seem like a post-season threat.

I like Dozier. Not sure what we will replace him with. He is not a premiere second baseman, sadly, otherwise there would be more knocking on the door. Mauer is a solid player, good on the field, can hit decently...but each year his numbers put him further and further away from a Hall of Fame vote. He would've made it had he stayed a catcher and played accordingly, even 2/3rds time behind-the-plate. I don't fault the move, really don't...but we now have no place to put him on the field or the lineup where he scares the other side.Players 

want to play on winning teams? They want to go to the post-season? Good luck if you can predict who and when. Best is to play 200% the first half of every year and hope someone needs you badly as a position replacement and you are a worthwhile investment.

Joe and Brian, right now, have contracts that other teams really don't need to take. It's a sad state that you aren't a GREAT deal, maybe not even a good deal, especially when compared to what a team already has or other pieces in the marketplace.

I don't see much sign that the team is on the verge of starting a new winning cycle, even next year. Not unless Buxton, Rosario, and Kepler all step up in a big way, and Berrios becomes a #1-2 level starter, and Romero and Gonsalves settle in without an issue, and Santana gets his HR rates back down, and maybe Mauer and Dozier play a little better, and maybe Sano is more consistent, and the bullpen somehow comes together. There are a lot of holes, and the club is counting on a lot of young, developing players to fill them.

I would guess that Falvine have their eyes on a post-Dozier/Mauer future, already, and we'll see Dozier and Santana traded for prospects this winter--even if it's too late to sell high on either of them, anymore.

I mean, the FO decided to buy initially and the team responded by completely going into the tank.
It would have been foolish, IMO, to throw good assets after bad once it went from long shot but doable, to microscopic shot.
It surprises me that Dozier doesn't seem to have the self awareness to realize that, he seems like a bright guy.
I get the frustration, but if he must, he should focus it towards himself and the rest of the locker room where it belongs.

Jeez,   we are still in long shot but doable territory.   3.5 games back with 53 games to play.    Odds were 4.6% before the win today.   Win 3 of 4 against the Brewers and see how the odds change.    Fate is still in the players hands.  It won't take a miracle.  Not at this point anyway.   It will take a good stretch of playing good baseball.

Jeez,   we are still in long shot but doable territory.   3.5 games back with 53 games to play.    Odds were 4.6% before the win today.   Win 3 of 4 against the Brewers and see how the odds change.    Fate is still in the players hands.  It won't take a miracle.  Not at this point anyway.   It will take a good stretch of playing good baseball.

3.5 games back from a one game lottery ticket on the road to hope to make the REAL playoffs... I don't know why people are so excited about the possibility of being a wild card team... that isn't really that good of a thing in baseball. We need to build to winning a division and being serious playoff contenders

I don't think the Twins tanked after the ASG. I think they simply found the level of their current talent was not competitive with real playoff level baseball. This is not a knock on Falvine. I think they realize it, and I think they intend to do something about it. It might be a very active winter.

Jeez,   we are still in long shot but doable territory.   3.5 games back with 53 games to play.    Odds were 4.6% before the win today.   Win 3 of 4 against the Brewers and see how the odds change.    Fate is still in the players hands.  It won't take a miracle.  Not at this point anyway.   It will take a good stretch of playing good baseball.

Very true.   They could theoretically stay in it (they do have SOME talent on the roster), but right now the biggest hurdle they seem to face is themselves.   IF they can hold off those personal daemons then they have a, albeit very small, chance to at least make a small playoff run. 

Yes they can, but it is time to quit making the lineup based on their preferences and give them the rest of this season to get used to new roles. This lineup has one big bopper and then a bunch of walks with a black hole when it comes to runners on base.

Buxton- see if he can do it for next year.

Kepler- Left handed, takes a few pitches. Let Buck steal if he is on and if he isn't get yourself to 2nd.

Sano- our big masher

Mauer- pitch around Sano and you might walk Mauer also.

Dozier- if he can't get used to it then,,,,,,,,,,,

Rosario

Grossman

Castro- hopefully he doesn't slow up Buxton too often

Polanco

I would like to see them give that lineup 30 games to see what happens. In the offseason send Grossman to Tom Kelly to learn 1st base and get a 'real" DH to bat in the middle.

So...to sum up the thread: the Twins can win with Mauer and Dozier but not because of Mauer and Dozier. They aren't negatives at their position but they aren't impactful players either.

Personally, even if he's not a negative I still think you leave a lot of production on the table by not displacing Mauer (and Grossman for that matter) in the 1B/DH spots. This team is packed to the gills with 50-60 RBI players with mediocre power, Dozier (~80ish) and Sano (>100) being the only exceptions. Guys are generally getting on base but nobody can consistently drive them in.

It's a shame the Pohlads, Ryan and co never actually tried to win a title during Mauer's tenure here.
The guy is easily one of the 5 best players in Franchise History and helped lead the team to several playoff berths. He is a future hall of famer, him not success in the playoffs is a true waste of amazing talent.

I few Dozier is a somewhat similar but not nearly as tragic way.

I think they "went" for it in 2010 but of course that was Smith in charge. He also spent like a "drunken sailor"* which got him fired the next year.

* compared to Ryan.

I don't think the Twins tanked after the ASG. I think they simply found the level of their current talent was not competitive with real playoff level baseball. This is not a knock on Falvine. I think they realize it, and I think they intend to do something about it. It might be a very active winter.

How did you pack that many excellent insights into five sentences at six in the morning? Was there a whole lot of coffee involved?