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    Are the Front Office's Jobs Secure?

    Cody Pirkl

    By Cody Pirkl

    Much of the takeaway from the Twins lack of trade deadline action rightfully revolves around the current team and the holes that remain. What it may say about the front office long-term is also a worthwhile consideration.

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    Many consider the overall body of work by the current front office as a success. It’s easy to compare to the Terry Ryan regime and agree that they’re in a much better place now. That being said, it’s fair to wonder whether their resume undoubtedly makes them the men for the job. This deadline may suggest that ownership, the people who matter, are content.

    The Falvey regime has had its ups and down, and despite their public desire to build a sustainable winner, the Twins have been anything but. After a surprise playoff appearance in 2017, they understandably finished six games under .500 the following season. 2019 appeared to be the year that years of building infrastructure and a farm system came together. Winning 101 games and setting the all-time home run record, a playoff series sweep was disappointing, but at least the Twins appeared to have a core in place for the long haul. In a shortened 2020, the Twins again made the playoffs only to be swept out by the sub-.500 Astros at home.

    At no point did the Twins front office express a step back in their attempts to contend between the plans they provided publicly and the moves they made. Still, they missed the playoffs in one of the softest divisions in history both in 2021 and 2022. There were routinely multiple teams missing the playoffs altogether from other divisions who would have run away with the AL Central, but the Twins couldn’t even finish in second place.

    You’d think this would cause tensions to begin rising within ownership, only to be made worse by a 2023 squad that has always felt mediocre and incomplete. The Twins entered the trade deadline with only a one-game lead on Cleveland. The needs were obvious and relatively cheap, and still, they chose to do nothing aside from part with Jorge Lopez, one of the holdovers from 2022's disastrous trade deadline.

    The Twins still have the second easiest remaining schedule in baseball, whereas Cleveland is about middle of the pack. It’s a big reason the Twins playoff odds remain near 80% despite their minuscule lead. Making matters even more interesting is Cleveland’s apparent plan at the deadline aiming more toward the future by parting with their most effective starter. They’re begging the Twins to take the division.

    It’s odd then that the front office chose not to address any of their most obvious needs between a bullpen that’s wearing down and the worst OPS against left-handed pitching in baseball. The Twins may very well still win the division, though it’s far from a done deal given how this team has played to date. We’ll all surely continue to watch in hopes of another division title, but the operation at the deadline should cause long-term concern, as it’s hard to see the front office passing on any upgrades if their jobs aren’t guaranteed.

    It was true before, and even more so now that Cleveland effectively sold: The Twins should not continue to employ this front office if they miss the playoffs for the third straight year. The bar to clear has never been lower, and the Twins simply should not be allowed to miss the mark for a third consecutive time. With even minor upgrades at the deadline, they could have insulated their division title, but they declined to do so riding a five-game losing streak and having just been swept by the Kansas City Royals. Derek Falvey, Thad Levine, and company simply don’t seem to have any sense of urgency after two-plus years of mediocrity, and that should be a bright red flag.

    They ignored obvious holes this offseason, and they doubled down on this flawed roster at the deadline even as Brock Stewart’s return to the bullpen and Alex Kirilloff’s return to the lineup became serious question marks. It’s clear they think they know better than anyone else when it comes to building a baseball team despite the lack of historical evidence, and it’s worth wondering whether this deadline’s inaction shows that ownership isn’t close to making a change. That should not be the case.

    Cody Pirkl is a Twins Writer for Twins Daily and lover of all things baseball.
    Follow Cody Pirkl on Twitter: CodyPirkl

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    Featured Comments

    Linus

    Linus 9,151

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    I don’t have confidence in them anymore.  The bad decision pile is growing much faster than the good decision pile. Their stubbornness in sticking with their process even when it’s obviously wrong is beyond frustrating. End result: 7 years in and we have a 500 team in a horrible division. They really overhauled the analytics department and minor league development staff but if it doesn’t result in good players and good teams what difference does it make?  In some ways I see the minor league development as worse than before. It seems all our players are fundamentally poor.  Time to move on. 

    LastOnePicked

    LastOnePicked 4,436

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    "It’s easy to compare to the Terry Ryan regime and agree that they’re in a much better place now."

    I'm not actually sure I do agree. Ryan left with a promising farm system ahead and with a few very modest postseason successes behind. If Falvey/Levine exit after this year, the same just can't be said. Twins will have a bottom-half farm system, a nonexistent pitching pipeline, two very costly and ineffective long-term contracts on the books and absolutely zero postseason success to show for their tenure.

    Yes, the Twins have improved some in development and analytics, but so has every other team. The game has changed. The Twins are not ahead of the curve in anything in this sport.

    Otherwise, I agree with pretty much every other point here. Particularly the idea that their job security after this season should be anything but assured at this point.

    olerud

    olerud 99

  • Verified Member

    • Posted (edited)

    The Twins Organization needs to clean house from the top-down and get rid of these millennias! Analytics and sabermetrics are tools to be used however you still need a feel for the game gut Instincts which none of them have! Just a bunch of conputer dorks. Gimme a little of that with some old school grit and you might Actually win. Until then, highly doubtful.

    Edited by Richie the Rally Goat
    Teflon

    Teflon 1,441

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    I'd be shocked if the Twins make front office changes for 2024. This season should have already been viewed as a write-off given Correa's funk, Miranda's regression, Polanco's injuries and Buxton's limited capacity. The Twins actually should have been sellers to see if they could get something for Gray or Maeda or Gallo or Kepler but I suppose standing pat is the compromise when you're mediocre but in first place by default.

    chpettit19

    chpettit19 23,687

  • Community Moderator

    • Posted

    Their inaction either means they feel comfortable in their job security (would be my bet) or the Pohlads put a governor on them because they're either making or breaking with the team they built. 

    I would move on from the whole regime even though I like what they've done with modernizing the org, and I think they draft pretty well overall. I just don't think they have the needed ability to adjust quickly enough to succeed. They make a plan for the year and hardly change from it at all. And when they try to it turns out like last deadline (I didn't mind the trades at the time, but boy have they turned out bad). Since I do think they draft well I'd like to see Sean Johnson remain as it's my understanding that he basically runs the draft. But Falvine needs to go, in my opinion. I don't think they will, though.

    LewFordLives

    LewFordLives 2,598

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    Terry Ryan didn't have nearly the payroll that Falvey has. Yet the results have been about the same.

    I don't have any confidence in this regime. Some of the moves have been infuriating (Berrios) and others downright baffling (Gallo). They continue to try and build a bullpen on the fly, even though history shows it just doesn't work. Every large contract has blown up in their faces. 

    ashbury

    ashbury 60,773

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    We joke about them as "FalVine" but they are not conjoined Twins.  :)   Assuming this season ends without a playoff win to show for it, change at the top could be made without firing them both.

    Two scenarios:

    1) Falvey fires Levine on the grounds of accountability for 3 consecutive seasons of subpar results.  This outcome assumes that Levine has had more input to the overall "vision" than we know, and for instance was the architect of the major trades and signings of the past few seasons, with Falvey merely providing budgetary approval when they happened. 

    2) Joe Pohlad (or Dave St Peter acting with his approval) fires Falvey and elevates Levine to the big chair, perhaps with a title only of Executive VP of Baseball Operations rather than the redundant President.  This is if Falvey has been completely hands-on with every important decision, and Levine has been in effect a glorified assistant GM who ownership feels is suited to the big job.  (I want to stress, Levine is a decade older than Falvey.)

    In either scenario we have a new GM who comes in, and Rocco's job hangs in the balance depending on whom they hire and how much decision-making power the new GM is given.  New GMs tend to like new managers.  Of course, Rocco could be fired if FalVine both stay on, but this thread is about change at the top.

    I tend to think either of these scenarios is more likely than firing both Falvey and Levine.  If it works, it has a ripple effect of accountability everywhere down the org chart, without throwing the organization into months of chaos from complete turnover.  Firing both means Joe Pohlad is saying, "this is my baseball team now," and I just don't foresee that.

    But the guesswork involves our not knowing with real certainty what the working dynamics currently are at the top, Pohlad included, and how decision making is split.  Anything could happen.  If we win a playoff game, probably the FO maintains the status quo.  Otherwise I might split the chances into:

    • status quo - 35%
    • Levine fired - 30%
    • Falvey fired - 20%
    • both fired - 15%

     

    Jocko87

    Jocko87 5,696

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    I would give them an overall vote of support along with a few very pointed demerits.  My main concern is that they continue to get better and that they fix the things they choose to prioritize.  Can’t build a rotation year after year, suddenly they adjusted strategy and here we are.  Can’t sign premium free agents, did that.  Training room was a liability last year, it’s a strength this year.  Draft picks kinda iffy have been pretty good lately.  They have invested a ton in analytics (maybe too much for my tastes) where the organization was barely on the board.  The culture is universally reported as good.  

    There are a lot of good things to look at.  There are a few things that drive me nuts.  I will be very disappointed if they aren’t a top 10 offense next year.  I expect that to be a focus and have a good amount of confidence they can do it.  The Kepler Gallo things have confused me but they were rightish on 2 of 3.  I still think there is something else going on with the Gallo deal.  I wish they would act more harshly sometimes but also being patient has paid off significantly. It’s all complicated but I have a hard time if someone is saying they aren’t a net positive and heading in the right direction. 

     

    tony&rodney

    tony&rodney 16,948

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    Not a fan of the current front office and simply do not understand whatever philosophy of baseball they are attempting to drive forward with the Twins. I admired the honesty and direct humanity of Terry Ryan. I believe Ryan was superior in almost all ways to Falvine but understand those who have railed about the failure of Ryan to adapt quickly to analytics. That said, the judgment in my eyes is related to attendance and viewership that displays interest in the Twins product. I'm simply a Twins fan and will, in the end, pay little attention to the front office because I'm more focused on the pitcher-batter chess match and want the Twins to play to their potential which hopefully includes a few wins.

    Blyleven2011

    Blyleven2011 6,758

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    6 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

    Not a fan of the current front office and simply do not understand whatever philosophy of baseball they are attempting to drive forward with the Twins. I admired the honesty and direct humanity of Terry Ryan. I believe Ryan was superior in almost all ways to Falvine but understand those who have railed about the failure of Ryan to adapt quickly to analytics. That said, the judgment in my eyes is related to attendance and viewership that displays interest in the Twins product. I'm simply a Twins fan and will, in the end, pay little attention to the front office because I'm more focused on the pitcher-batter chess match and want the Twins to play to their potential which hopefully includes a few wins.

    Well said , Terry Ryan was a class act and intelligent baseball man and I too had respect for him  ... 

    Remember he turned down the Toronto job for a bigger pay day to stay with the team  ....

    I'm sure the current FO office is smart also  but not in the same way ...

    Nashvilletwin

    Nashvilletwin 5,260

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    1 hour ago, Teflon said:

    I'd be shocked if the Twins make front office changes for 2024. This season should have already been viewed as a write-off given Correa's funk, Miranda's regression, Polanco's injuries and Buxton's limited capacity. The Twins actually should have been sellers to see if they could get something for Gray or Maeda or Gallo or Kepler but I suppose standing pat is the compromise when you're mediocre but in first place by default.

    And the year before this year it was injuries, and the year before that…..blah, blah blah.

    I understand your point, but true leaders succeed even if everything doesn’t go their way.  This leadership group has not.

    Sorry, but some of us, and hopefully our owners, expect better results despite annual hiccups in circumstances.

    Are the horrible? Absolutely not.  Have they proven they can win given the historically high resources granted to them? No they have not.  If they are unable to win a playoff series this year, they will have failed in their most important, primary objective over their entire tenure.

    The Twins are entering a new era with essentially an entirely new young core.  Perhaps it’s time to bring in new leadership to manage it (and, yes, I mean the manager as well). At some point, excuses need to be parked at the door and results have to matter.

    Dman

    Dman 13,644

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    The baseball gods don't seem to like this FO for some reason.  They inherited a dynamic player in Buxton who is hurt so much he has been relegated to DH. They inherited Kirilloff who is hurt all the time as well.  They Drafted Lewis number 1 in their first draft and he has been injured more than healthy in his career so far. They took Larnach and he is injured alot and apparently can't hit breaking balls. They went against consensus and picked Cavaco instead of Carroll which turned into a massive blunder as they got nothing instead of an all star caliber player. 2020 they went against consensus again to pick a first basemen\DH with not great athleticism in the first round and Sabato turned into another wasted pick. They have a really nice draft in 2021 and they trade most of it away to get a reliever that tanked almost instantly.  They did get Gray but lost Petty there number pick in the draft to get him.  It doesn't seem to matter what this FO does it just seems like it turns out badly in the end.

    They trade Berrios for two almost can't miss prospects who haven't performed since we got them.  They trade for Mahle and give up Steer who is hitting better than anyone on the team not named Jullien and Mahle falls apart and gets injured right away.  You can't make this stuff up.  It appears good to start but it all just falls apart.

    For as much as I am complaining I was onboard with most all the FO moves.  I wanted them to find a decent starter and fight for the division last year and they did and although the price was high I was happy about it.  I wanted them to find an elite reliever they went and got the guy who played in the All Star game and I thought that was a great move at the time again even though the price was high it was supposed to give them a one, two punch for the stretch and beyond.  I wanted them to resign Buxton and felt he had at least 3 decent years in the outfield in him and then maybe part time in the field.  he didn't even make it one full year.  I was hoping beyond hope they would sign Correa and they did and he ends up worse than anything I could dream up.  I thought Miranda was a star bat and they should not trade him and he was crazy bad to start the year.  So I guess I should fire myself as I liked most all the moves but very few worked out well.

    I guess sometimes life is like that.  You do everything you can to make good decisions and you fail.  The White Sox should have been a better team than they are and they have stunk for the most part.  KC can't seem to find the pitching they need.  Detroit has drafted poorly and not gotten good value in trades.  

    Am I unhappy with the way things have worked out?  Yes I am.  What would I have done differently I don't know.  Sometimes good players get injured and never reach their potential.  Sometime good players regress at inopportune times. Sometime what seems like a good deal isn't a good deal.  You can't control everything and I guess that is what makes the sport so darn interesting, but when your team is the one with the bad luck it sucks.  This team just can't seem to pull together at the same time to create wins and blows games that were winnable far too often.  Some how they are still in first place so maybe I shouldn't be complaining for as bad as the Twins are the other four teams in our division are even worse. 

    Is it all the FO?  I don't know.  I think they should take some heat for the bullpen as they didn't do anything to shore up a weakness almost everyone believed was there except them.  They did go out and get a ton of depth and managed to sign Correa something no other Twins FO was ever able to do. I feel like the now decimated 2021 was good one and I think 2022 and 2023 are going to be good ones as well.  It seems like given the talent this team should just be better than it is but here we are.

    No I don't think they are in danger of losing their jobs.  Joe Pohlad has a good relationship with them and I believe he will stand by them and the decisions they have made.  Still it is a business and they need to perform.  Seeing the Reds, Orioles and Snakes with very successful rebuilds in a fairly short amount of time does make me see red.  Still I guess we wait and see how things turn out.  They certainly aren't in a good spot right now.

    JD-TWINS

    JD-TWINS 6,204

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    I don’t think they are as inept and dim as most commenters portray them as here.

    Miranda - CC - Kepler - Polanco - Buxton have all let the FO & team down……..Kepler has turned a corner since July 1, to be fair. These guys were viewed as decent players - probable contributors, by anyone that follows the game.

    Can’t blame front office for these guy’s performance to date - $70M of the $153M right here.

    Gallo hasn’t worked out & neither did Mahle. That’s on the FO……another $20 M.

    Tough to win when less than 40% of your team’s payroll is playing up to expectations. Again, I do not see the FO as being responsible for the players inability to get the job done.

    Castro - Farmer - Taylor - Solano - Vazquez are a big part of our success as role players. FO did a nice job pulling these veterans in to plug holes.

    Would have liked some relief help at deadline - at least one guy!!!

    Reasoning for inactivity on Monday: Guardians play 38 games v. teams above .500 in their last 54. Twins play 15 games v. teams above .500 in their last 54.

    Cleveland traded Civale & J. Bell on Monday.

    Gotta bet on logic winning out.

    Once we get to playoffs, we go with 12 pitchers and 14 bats. We have 2 months to jell v. LH pitching & Lewis will be back soon to help!

    Kuechel - Ryan - Duran - Jax  - Pagan - Floro - Thielbar - Balazovic 

    Lopez - Gray - Ober……Maeda

    Headrick & Ortega & Moran can help us get through August.

    Bottom line is once we are in playoffs we don’t need acquisition help!

    Fire Dan Gladden

    Fire Dan Gladden 4,459

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    Everybody calling for a house clearing...  You are expecting that the following regime would be better.  Far from a sure thing.

    A regime change is a change in approach and culture and can take many years to see results.  Watch what you ask for...  

    Danchat

    Danchat 14,024

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    4 hours ago, Teflon said:

    I'd be shocked if the Twins make front office changes for 2024. This season should have already been viewed as a write-off given Correa's funk, Miranda's regression, Polanco's injuries and Buxton's limited capacity. The Twins actually should have been sellers to see if they could get something for Gray or Maeda or Gallo or Kepler but I suppose standing pat is the compromise when you're mediocre but in first place by default.

    If that's all it takes to write-off a season, then this front office will be around forever because injuries / funks / regressions are going to happen to every team. 

    tony&rodney

    tony&rodney 16,948

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    One thing that stands out way above anything else since Falvey and Levine were hired is the amount of money that the Pohlads have invested in the franchise. This has been a change from the first 33 years. The contracts for Donaldson, Buxton, and Correa were all pretty large. 

    I wonder how the Pohlads view the manner in which the front office has proceeded. I would guess they are supportive, which means these guys will be around a little longer. 

    Either way, there are some players worth watching every year.

    Karbo

    Karbo 5,472

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    I'm disappointed with the managements failure to adjust their hitting philosophy. This "all or nothing, swing for the fences" is so wide spread that IMO must be getting pushed for. The Gallo signing is an example. History showed a guy that was a sub .200 hitter that could hit the ball a long way (when he hit it). History also showed he had quickly been going down hill for at least the last year an a half. Yet they sign him to a large contract, keep running him out most every day, and not releasing him to make room for other hitters. Not to mention the amount of other LH outfielders in the system. I do however understand them not making any significant moves at the deadline.

    TwinsDr2021

    TwinsDr2021 4,463

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    13 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

     Training room was a liability last year, it’s a strength this year.

    Is it? aren't guys getting hurt at about the same level, and now talk of the pitching tiring at the 2/3 point of the season?

    With that said, win a playoff game and keep their jobs, don't and fire them simple as that for me. Rocco for me needs more than a win to keep his job, he needs to not get out managed as well.

    I generally agree with the moves this FO makes (not Gallo and the relief decisions) but I don't enjoy the brand of baseball that is played. It is a sad thing watching the Twins and being surprised when a player doesn't strike out, and watching other teams and being surprised when a top player does strike out.

    Doctor Wu

    Doctor Wu 4,337

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    I'm not as disgusted with the front office as some posters are. Yeah, many things could have been done differently, or better, but overall they have been far from a disaster. That said, we can only be patient for so long. We need to start winning some playoff games. I don't foresee any changes soon. I give them another full year before any sort of decisions might happen. 

    rv78

    rv78 3,125

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    10 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

    Everybody calling for a house clearing...  You are expecting that the following regime would be better.  Far from a sure thing.

    A regime change is a change in approach and culture and can take many years to see results.  Watch what you ask for...  

    This may be true but you also have to look at what it is now, which has been little success in the regular season and none in the playoffs. Why then, wouldn't taking a chance to find something better, be worth it? 

    I think the biggest issue with the current regime is the philosphy. A little less analytics and a lot more hands on approach in real game time management would be refreshing. Case in point..... Nick Nelsons article on Correa. If his move to the leadoff spot was good when it first happened and has not continued to be successful then why is he still hitting there? If Buxton cannot play CF and cannot hit why is he playing at all? He should be on the IL getting healthy for the playoffs, if they get there, or at least getting healthy for 2024. Why is Gallo still on the team? We have had what now, 7 years of these guys with nothing to show for it. Bad luck or not, they haven't produced. I never cared for Terry Ryan. It seemed his philosophy was always "a hope and a prayer" or "catch lightning in a bottle". I have sinced realized that was pretty much all that ownership would allow him to do. His alotted dollars was much more limited than what Falvine has been allowed to spend. 

    I like the young players on the team. Kirilloff, Jeffers, Julien, Lewis, Larnach, Wallner and yes even Miranda. Can't wait to see Lee. I think they have made huge mistakes with the veterans on the team. Signing Gallo has to be the worst move ever and giving Correa a 6 year deal wasn't far behind. Remember two other Franchises seemed to be smart enough to back out on him. Everyone thinks resigning Buxton for cheap was also a great move. Why is giving anyone who can't stay on the field even half a paycheck, great? Was keeping Kepler really worth it? He's had 1 good month this year which is about his norm outside of his 2019 juiced ball season. They have signed broken down players and then we all wonder why this team has so many injured players. They even sign players like Paddack who don't play with the hope, they will someday, be able to. 

    I for one, am ready for something new, something different, and I'm willing to hope it will be something better. 

    Trov

    Trov 4,797

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    A couple of things.  One, the FO does not play the games, they put together a roster, and farm system in hopes they players produce.  Yes, they have made some bad moves and trades, just like every FO does.  They have also made some very good trades and moves.  The fact that all our right handed hitters cannot hit lefties this year is not the FO fault.  The fact that Buxton's knees will not allow him to play outfield is not their fault, and they brought in a good defender to deal with that, so we did not rely on Celestino or Gordon as starting CF.  

    Yes, we signed Gallo for 11 mil and passed on Bellinger, assuming we could have got him near what Cubs paid, but there is no guarantee Bellinger does with us what he did with Cubs.  

    Two, the holes that were talked about coming into the season, the righter says were not addressed, but the main hole people talked about was starting pitching, and pitching generally, but yet we have one of the best pitching staffs in the league overall.  People were concerned about lack of right handed hitting OF, because of our terrible hitting against lefties, but even our right handed hitting players are not hitting lefties.  

    The writer is upset we did not make moves at the deadline, but moves cost prospects.  We could have brought in some rentals, but what would they have cost?  If we would have traded away Lewis, Lee, E-Rod, and others at the deadline for a couple of rentals, my guess the writer would be tearing that move. 

    LastOnePicked

    LastOnePicked 4,436

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    10 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

    Everybody calling for a house clearing...  You are expecting that the following regime would be better.  Far from a sure thing.

    A regime change is a change in approach and culture and can take many years to see results.  Watch what you ask for...  

    This is that interesting challenge. I get it. To me, though, this is the same logic that keeps people in an abusive relationship. "It's not that bad, is it? And wouldn't a change be worse?"

    I'll just restate my take on this: this FO has been given ample time, leeway and the largest payrolls in franchise history. The result? Chronic underperformance. Yearly, they've put out a product that is weak in fundamentals, low in energy and quick to make excuses for failure. And there's been plenty of failure to go along with one longball-fueled AL Central division pennant and one 2020 pandemic participation ribbon.

    We deserve better than this. And when ownership commits to a rebuilding plan, we can see the result in places like Baltimore and Cincinnati. Yup, a few years of bad baseball. After that? The foundation for a sustainable winner.

    Could we end up like Pittsburgh? Sure, maybe for awhile. Honestly, I'd take that risk. I'd even find that preferable to what the Twins have become under this regime. I'd rather watch rookies find their footing together and gel than to watch underperforming star veterans slog their way through the season.

    Twins baseball is, far too often, utterly unwatchable under this regime. Something has to give, sooner or later.

    Doctor Gast

    Doctor Gast 10,593

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    15 hours ago, olerud said:

    The Twins Organization needs to clean house from the top-down and get rid of these millennias! Analytics and sabermetrics are tools to be used however you still need a feel for the game gut Instincts which none of them have! Just a bunch of conputer dorks. Gimme a little of that with some old school grit and you might Actually win. Until then, highly doubtful.

    I was giving a long list of how I've disapprove of this FO these past 4 yrs. but my computer crashed & I'm too lazy to reproduce that thought. So I'll leave it that I agree with olerud.

    Rod Carews Birthday

    Rod Carews Birthday 4,587

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    I have to admit that I am largely indifferent to the existence of Falvey, Levine, and Baldelli.  I don’t think that all of the poor play this season by the offense  nor the great starting pitching is really due to them.  I also don’t think that the recent resurgence of hitting and fade of the pitching is due to them either.  They have made some trades that I liked at the time but now hate, as well as some trades that turned out well.  Much has been made of the “over-reliance” on sabermetric data.  I hate to disappoint peoples pre-conceived notions, but ALL teams are relying on sabermetrics and data more than in the past.  This is not a Twins-only issue.  One of the reasons that people think this is the case is that they talk about it, whereas previous iterations of the front office and manager used some of the same information but didn’t have a fancy name for it. All in all,  I believe that Falvey, Levine, and Baldelli are neither geniuses nor idiots.  

    IF we move on from the current leadership group of the team, we need to be prepared for two things.  First of all, there will likely be a change in philosophy/direction of the organization.  That may be a great thing or a terrible thing, we just don’t know.  No matter what, the effects of that change will take time to see, likely four or five years. The change will not be instant, even though an upward blip or downward blip may happen in the meantime.  The “sustainable” part of the equation doesn’t happen right away.  Second of all, the results may not be what we think they will be.  We are also in no-man’s land as a team.  We are not world-beaters with all stars at every position and on a path to win 110 games, nor are we the Athletics or the Royals.  We say that we are tired of losing playoff games (and we are!) and that we only are happy if they get to the World Series (I was born during the first one and enjoyed two victories many years later, so maybe I’m lucky).  However, if things go poorly and we become the Athletics or Royals, we would be absolutely thrilled with a division title and a playoff birth.  Everyone needs to understand that calling for change means that we could be losing our current version of “pretty good” for “pretty terrible” in pursuit of “almost perfect”.  I’m ok with pretty good, because 1987 showed me that sometimes pretty good will get you pretty far. 

    Woof Bronzer

    Woof Bronzer 2,168

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

     

    12 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

    Everybody calling for a house clearing...  You are expecting that the following regime would be better.  Far from a sure thing.

    A regime change is a change in approach and culture and can take many years to see results.  Watch what you ask for...  

    By this logic no team would every fire anyone, ever.  Yes, the next regime MIGHT not be successful.  We KNOW the current one has not been.

    Falvey said when he was hired that the easily measurable goal was to build a sustained championship organization.  Do you think he has succeeded?

     

    Fire Dan Gladden

    Fire Dan Gladden 4,459

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    7 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

     

    By this logic no team would every fire anyone, ever.  Yes, the next regime MIGHT not be successful.  We KNOW the current one has not been.

    Falvey said when he was hired that the easily measurable goal was to build a sustained championship organization.  Do you think he has succeeded?

     

    Well I know the general consensus believes there needs to be a razing from the top down.  I am not so sure.

    Not enough metrics.  Too much metrics.  Should have traded this guy.  Should have acquired that guy.  <Insert prospect here> should be playing over <insert veteran here>...

    Arguing semantics or hindsight serves little purpose.  This FO had some unique challenges when they first came on board. The basically gutted and overhauled the entire administration to bring them up to speed on metric usage.  They had to rebuild a system that had zero pitching prospects

    "But FDG, that was years ago!  What have they done for me lately?"

    Made the playoffs multiple times.  In other years (like this one), have put teams together that on paper were strong, but underperformed or were decimated by injuries.  Continue to push a relatively cheap ownership group to spend and invest more.  Sign guys they had no business being in on...

    I am not going to sit here and defend these guys, but I am also not going to tear them apart either.  I am not convinced that things are SOOOO bad for the Twins that gutting the FO is the way to go. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but opinions are all they are.  Nobody here is a party to all of the factors that go into their decisions, myself included.

    Have at it...



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