The Twins Keep Finding Pitching Talent. Why Can't They Unlock It?

[killercarewoliva]

26 minutes ago, old nurse said:

He said it, but it wasn’t true 

thank you for clarifying

[DJL44]

The one that still burns me is Ronny Henriquez. He was good in his audition but cut to keep Mike Tonkin. Randy Dobnak was kept on the Opening Day roster. Dobnak pitched mop-up once in a loss, his only innings that season. He was cut 5 days later. The Twins lost both Headrick (who still had options) and Henriquez to use Dobnak for one game, keep Matt Canterino on the 40-man and give Mike Tonkin another try.

[JBK]

2 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

This comment makes getting old more palatable.  I won't have to read this statement that randomly appears in almost every article at Twins Daily regardess of the topic.  This article was about the apparent inability of Twins' coaches to fully develop the innate talent of young pitchers.  Trading Varland has nothing to do with the development of of young pitchers.  I get it.  The Varland trade still pisses you off.  It still pisses off a lot of Twins' fans.  But it's a done deal and no amount of random bitching is going to change that fact.  Wait for an article about bad trades by the front office and then jump in.  I realize that you will probably write back that it's your right to say whatever you want - and you're correct.  But my intent with this comment is that I won't have to listen to it for that many more years.

Lighten up Francis

[Blyleven2011]

2 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

Brent Rooker, Ty Francis come to mind.  

Pagan wasn’t mentioned , he found more success with the reds , maybe not quite elite but pitched as a closer for them …

[TheLeviathan]

As mentioned earlier this does happen to all teams.  However, we don't have nearly enough reverse success stories it feels like.  The Brewers and Yankees (among others) can point to a lot of success stories and what do we have?

Kody Clemens?  

I think this speaks to a broken approach that I've been far from alone in complaining about: The Twins don't invest in upside.  They sign Josh Bell rather than Luis Arraez.  Or Murakami.  They sign Taylor Rogers rather than Sean Newcomb.  

Time and time again they choose "safe" or "blech" in favor of risk.  If you choose to never take risks, than you rob yourself of getting those surprise rewards.  

[Andy MacPhail]

It's frustrating to see homegrown pitchers stall out at the MLB level. Why do some go to a different place & they take off? In my observation, it's not necessarily bad coaching from the prior organization. Each player is unique & they might need a specific key from a different pitching coach that unlocks their potential that they aren't getting from the Twins. Twins seem do very well with pitchers that get their foundation from teams like TB- Odorizzi, Ryan, Bradley, & Gomez & MIA- Lopez. I've always advocated targeting these teams. Johan Santana became elite when he found the circle-change-up key that unlocked him. It might be personality that triggers something. IMO. it wasn't TOR that unlocked something in Varland; I could see that Varland could be a very good RP. Unless it was that they had confidence in him & he got the experience that he didn't get from MN. It might also be how they are managed.

[CoachDW]

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

The one that still burns me is Ronny Henriquez. He was good in his audition but cut to keep Mike Tonkin. Randy Dobnak was kept on the Opening Day roster. Dobnak pitched mop-up once in a loss, his only innings that season. He was cut 5 days later. The Twins lost both Headrick (who still had options) and Henriquez to use Dobnak for one game, keep Matt Canterino on the 40-man and give Mike Tonkin another try.

Henriquez is one that is a complete head-scratcher. In two seasons with the Twins (age 22 & 24) he pitched 30 innings, giving up 28 hits with 8 walks, 24 strikeouts and an ERA of 3.00 (ERA+ of 173 and 131).  The Twins waived him, he was picked up by the Marlins where he promptly put up a record of 7-1 with a 2.22 ERA (195 ERA+). In 73 innings, he gave up only 53 hits and 27 walks while striking out 98. All to hold onto Tonkin/Dobnak. Incredibly short-sighted.

The Twins also gave up on Steven Okert too soon, in my opinion. He was no youngster when the Twins acquired him, but he already had a strong track record of above-average relief pitching (ERA+ greater than 100 each year). There is no question that he pitched poorly with the Twins in 2024, having to adjust to a new experience being in the American League after spending his whole career in the NL and battling injuries (he was shut down in August). The Twins made no effort to re-sign him, and over the past two seasons he has combined for about 140 innings, giving up just 90 hits with 150 strikeouts and ERA+ of 135 and 194 with Houston.  Another bullpen arm who thrived prior to and after leaving Minnesota that did nothing when he was here.

[mikelink45]

2 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Pagan wasn’t mentioned , he found more success with the reds , maybe not quite elite but pitched as a closer for them …

There are so many choices - Gil, Henriks, even Mahle - I like the potential of some of our young pitchers but wonder why we should have faith that they will maximize their potential? 

[Linus]

First thing is the notion Falvey was the architect of Cleveland’s pitching prowess is complete bunk. I’ve been saying it since he was hired: there is no evidence that he was responsible for the run of strong pitching in Cleveland. Certainly he was privy to the philosophy and principles of their pitching system but they were just fine without him and Cleveland’s expertise in this area certainly didn’t land here with Falvey.

The Twins have a schizophrenic history developing pitching during the Falvey era. The first part of his tenure he refused to use high picks on pitchers - they failed miserably drafting and developing homegrown pitchers. Ober, Jax and Varland are your success stories for homegrown pitchers in 10 years. 

However Falvey was very good at obtaining pitchers via trade. Once he acquired them they often improved with the Twins - think Ryan, Lopez and now Taj Bradley. Of course this acquisition method is far more costly than drafting and developing your own but the bottom line is he assembled some good rotations. 

His history with bullpens is even weirder. They obviously could identify pitchers who had something to build on but then were not able to complete the job. It also appears they have been poor at self scouting. You could assemble a great bullpen right now from guys they let walk let alone traded for nothing. So he gets an F, I mean an A, or a D+. The Twins have some talent depth for their rotation currently. It’s really important that we can form a solid rotation for several years from this group because down on the farm, pitching is bleak, barren and almost nonexistent. 

[Russ]

Need to evaluate and Develop it.  Which are shortcomings and not mentioned