Off the 40 man.....

[Mike Sixel]

 

[Danchat]

I hoped they would hang on to Laweryson, but they simply never believed in him. 7 good innings in the majors wasn't going to change that.

Gasper is the one guy I expected to get DFA'd but still hasn't. How long will he hang around?

[ashbury]

I count 14 pitchers on the 40-man roster after dropping these 5.   Lots of moves to come.

The exit of Miranda leaves 19 position players.  That's quite an imbalance.  Probably several moves are on the horizon for them too.

I keep telling myself I have zero interest in playing armchair GM for a 90-loss team, and yet here I am, counting roster spots.

[SteveLV]

Wow, how Miranda has crashed down to the abyss.  Went from literally the hottest hitter in baseball 2 summers ago to this.

So sad and perplexing.  Is there more to this collapse than meets the eye?  Did something happen to him in his personal life?

[Chembry]

I am surprised Gasper, Julien, McCusker, and Keirsey weren't also included.

A bit surprised that Laweryson was released.  He pitched quite well in the chance he was given.  I thought he would have at least been given the opportunity to audition for a bullpen spot in 2026...The Angels scooped him up pretty quick.

Maybe that also means younger guys will be given a chance in the BP? Who knows...

[Chembry]

Just now, SteveLV said:

Wow, how Miranda has crashed down to the abyss.  Went from literally the hottest hitter in baseball 2 summers ago to this.

So sad and perplexing.  Is there more to this collapse than meets the eye?  Did something happen to him in his personal life?

He definitely fell quite fast.  Remember he had hits in 12 straight ABs last summer as well.  But he didn't even hit .200 in AAA this year so that move isn't necessarily surprising.

[SteveLV]

What in the heck is the fascination with Keirsey? Seems like a nice guy, but he can't hit.  He can pinch run and play some D.  But he can't hit.

Did I mention he can't hit?

Why are they hanging on to him?

[Riverbrian]

Laweryson is the only surprise and not much of a surprise. 

I wonder why these releases will be staggered.

As Chembry asked in the post above. Why wasn't McCusker and Keirsay Included? 

I can see Gasper and Julien keeping a 40 man spot for a bit but I don't see any reason for McCusker or Keirsay to remain. 

At least not yet I don't. 

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, SteveLV said:

What in the heck is the fascination with Keirsey? Seems like a nice guy, but he can't hit.  He can pinch run and play some D.  But he can't hit.

Did I mention he can't hit?

Why are they hanging on to him?

He shouldn't remain on the 40 man if they won't play him beyond late inning defensive replacement or pinch runner. 

This team should not roster any specialists. They should be rostering only full potential players in need of opportunity.  

Maybe the front office or Shelton feels differently about Keirsay than Baldelli did. 

[Mike Sixel]

I'm also very confused over Kiersey and McCusker at this point. Very. Not with Roden and Outman on the 40 man....(or, even w/o them, frankly). 

[old nurse]

They must be working on trades for the hitters 

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm also very confused over Kiersey and McCusker at this point. Very. Not with Roden and Outman on the 40 man....(or, even w/o them, frankly). 

If I was a conspiracy theorist. I'd say they are still on the roster due to possible OF moves to come. Some consolidation possible that dwindles the numbers because the numbers will need to dwindle. 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Although I do believe the state of Arizona is up to no good with their refusal to consider Daylight Savings Time.  

I'll say it rather confidently. 12 OF on the 40 man roster is way too many. You won't have space to sufficiently staff the other positions. 

With Keirsay and McCusker still on the 40 man that's 9 total already in place. With Rule 5 decisions to be made on GG, Mendez and Fedko. 

I would have guessed that Keirsay and McCusker would have been the first names dropped. 

 

[DJL44]

I think the players you are seeing first were outrighted and have the ability to refuse the outright assignment. I don't know if Keirsey or McCusker can refuse the assignment.

[jaimedude]

1 hour ago, Danchat said:

I hoped they would hang on to Laweryson, but they simply never believed in him. 7 good innings in the majors wasn't going to change that.

Gasper is the one guy I expected to get DFA'd but still hasn't. How long will he hang around?

Gasper has no value, not like he would be claimed on waivers. Every day Gasper pollutes the 40 man is terrible, Gasper is Dobnak like. Gasper is not a viable mlb player. Kiersey jr at least offers defense and speed. McCusker doesn't seem like a player either, think both McCusker, Gasper, and Kiersey jr. would all pass through waivers. 

[stringer bell]

35 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I think the players you are seeing first were outrighted and have the ability to refuse the outright assignment. I don't know if Keirsey or McCusker can refuse the assignment.

I think you may be correct on this. It could be that the Twins want to send Gasper, Keirsey Jr. and McCusker back to the minors while they have announced the guys who have become free agents. All of the other teams are making roster revisions and they might be trying to sneak some guys off the roster, but keep them in the organization. 

[stringer bell]

7 minutes ago, jaimedude said:

Gasper has no value, not like he would be claimed on waivers. Every day he pollutes the 40 man is terrible, he is not a viable mlb player. 

He didn't play like a major leaguer last year, but he has hit at the highest minor league level. Gasper wasn't comically bad as a catcher and the Twins don't have any depth at that position at the present time. 

[stringer bell]

48 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I think the players you are seeing first were outrighted and have the ability to refuse the outright assignment. I don't know if Keirsey or McCusker can refuse the assignment.

Miranda would be on his first DFA and thus could not refuse outright assignment. Maybe the Twins have decided they don't want him in their system and released him unconditionally.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Twins signed one or more of the guys who were DFA'd to a minor league contract. 

[jorgenswest]

What is the confusion? This happens every offseason. They needed to open some spots on the 40. Others will be moved when more open spots are needed. No need to remove them now. It is also not time to fret about the 40 man. There will be plenty of movement before opening day,

That they are aiming higher than Laweryson, Misiewicz, Hatch, Tonkin and Cabrera for the bullpen was good news to me.

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, old nurse said:

They must be working on trades for the hitters 

Then they may have guessed wrong on Laweryson.  But maybe "speculative interest" by one bad team is not quite the same as "trade value" for better-off teams.  (As a side note, who knows how long Laweryson will remain on the Angels' 40-man either, as further moves come down the pike in their off-season. Currently their 40-man has lots of room too but that will change.)

[Vanimal46]

What a colossal waste of time the 2nd half was. Instead of giving opportunities to players who may have a future they were given to 5 relievers who were jettisoned from the roster ASAP 

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

What a colossal waste of time the 2nd half was. Instead of giving opportunities to players who may have a future they were given to 5 relievers who were jettisoned from the roster ASAP 

Definitely one of my huge issues with this team. Why were guys who will never be starters still pitching in the minors? Why weren't they up? 

[Vanimal46]

26 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Definitely one of my huge issues with this team. Why were guys who will never be starters still picking in the minors? Why weren't they up? 

Falvey must have been worried those prospects could have helped them win a couple more games. He can’t even play the “veteran floor” game because they were terrible for the last 6+ weeks of the season. 

Time will tell if Laweryson will be another reliever that was in the building that went on to success elsewhere or if he’s an AJ Achter type 

[Riverbrian]

11 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

What is the confusion? This happens every offseason. They needed to open some spots on the 40. Others will be moved when more open spots are needed. No need to remove them now. It is also not time to fret about the 40 man. There will be plenty of movement before opening day,

That they are aiming higher than Laweryson, Misiewicz, Hatch, Tonkin and Cabrera for the bullpen was good news to me.

It GCPC.

General curiosity process confusion. 

That's all. 

[Doctor Wu]

12 hours ago, Chembry said:

A bit surprised that Laweryson was released.  He pitched quite well in the chance he was given.  I thought he would have at least been given the opportunity to audition for a bullpen spot in 2026.

That surprised me too. Seems like a few other players on the roster would have been dumped before him. Then again, with all those various roster manipulations and quirks, who knows what the eventual plan is for the front office, assuming there is a plan. 

[Riverbrian]

8 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Definitely one of my huge issues with this team. Why were guys who will never be starters still pitching in the minors? Why weren't they up? 

Pre-determination. 

It's one of my least favorite things. 

Pre-Determination. Sand in my car cupholder, Teletubbies, Mosquitos and porch pirates are some of my least favorite things. 

 

[jorgenswest]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Pre-determination. 

It's one of my least favorite things. 

Pre-Determination. Sand in my car cupholder, Teletubbies, Mosquitos and porch pirates are some of my least favorite things. 

 

I think the best staffs are very good at predetermination. Playing time at the majors is limited. I don’t think any organization can afford to give all of their players that reach the 40 the necessary playing sample to determine. Successful small and mid market teams will be good at determining the likelihood of success prior to arrival at the majors

We need the Twins to be very good at projecting as players arrive at the majors. Play Brooks Lee nearly every day. Bet on him and approach 1500 PAs. Maybe then you need to move on. Let them struggle and keep playing them. Everyday day. Have your answer prior to arbitration. Don’t waste too many days on the bench or you still want know when you get to arbitration.

Look at the Astros after they tore it down. After trades and drafts they had a lot of good prospects in the system. They played Altuve virtually every day for 2+ seasons. After 1536 plate appearances he was still a below average hitter (93 OPS+) but they won that bet. He really payed off as he it his arbitration years. They were also probably lucky he arrived a year or so below the prospect bubble. Gonzalez and Villar didn’t arrive until later and Altuve was established playing everyday before their arrival.

Once the prospect bubble hit they missed on a few trying to give playing time to too many. They had a glut of outfielders. All young. All good prospects with success in the minors. Some were prized prospects acquired in trade, They should have bet on JD Martinez. He had just 975 PAs after three years with the Astros and they didn’t tender him as he entered his arb years. With the glut of young outfield prospects they were splitting playing time among Martinez, Jordan Schafer, Chris Johnson, Brian Bogusevic, Fernando Martinez, LJ Hoes, Brandon Barnes and Robbie Grossman. All struggled as prearb players. None were taken to arbitration. They would have better betting on a few. They should have determined that Martinez was the guy. It wasn’t just outfielders. They missed on Jonathan Villar who was splitting time in the infield until he made it to arbitration. The DFA’d him and moved him in a minor trade to Milwaukee after three years. His first year in Milwaukee he stole 62 bases with an OPS+ of 117 playing shortstop everyday for them. Of course they were so bad they could afford to miss. Springer, Correa and Bregman were in the way. No splitting time for them.

No team has more FV45 and better prospects than the Twins. They also have several recent graduates that aren’t at arbitration yet including Wallner, Keaschall, Lee, Martin, Julien, Woods Richardson, Matthews, Festa and Bradley. They need to bet on the right guys and they need to be good at it. Bet of Roden or not. Let’s not end the year with plate appearances in the 300s. They can’t waste too many of their prearb days on the bench or they will still be wondering as they hit arbitration. 

[Chris Hove]

I really liked Lawyerson —yes, small sample size and only a 3-pitch mix —but he threw his fastball and changeup at extremely effective rates. For a position of need, it seems mysterious that the Twins didn't keep him. I assume he wanted $20,000 more than the Twins wanted to give him, so they cut him loose.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Chris Hove said:

I really liked Lawyerson —yes, small sample size and only a 3-pitch mix —but he threw his fastball and changeup at extremely effective rates. For a position of need, it seems mysterious that the Twins didn't keep him. I assume he wanted $20,000 more than the Twins wanted to give him, so they cut him loose.

Laweryson has no ability to negotiate his contract.

[FlyingFinn]

I remember a time when many on TD were clamoring for Kiersey and McCusker to get called up from AAA and then for more playing time with the Twins. Now everyone is clamoring for them to get DFA'd.  We get too excited about the new guy and sometimes don't have enough patience with the current guy (though I'm not saying we shouldn't cut these two as I am clamoring for Jenkins................the new guy!).

[Chris Hove]

24 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

I remember a time when many on TD were clamoring for Kiersey and McCusker to get called up from AAA and then for more playing time with the Twins. Now everyone is clamoring for them to get DFA'd.  We get too excited about the new guy and sometimes don't have enough patience with the current guy (though I'm not saying we shouldn't cut these two as I am clamoring for Jenkins................the new guy!).

I wanted Sabato at first and either Fedko or Gonzalez instead of DKJ or McCusker. I even did a story about Fedko back in August. They could lose Fedko from the Rule 5 Draft if not protected. A lot of decisions still. I agree with you about Jenkins as well.